Difficulty in receiving pleasure vs. giving it?

[Rox_shybutcurious]

I had one of those light bulb realization moments several weeks ago. I’m not quite sure how to phrase it exactly beyond that I seem to have a problem being on the receiving end of pleasure vs. the giving of it. I’ve been pondering the notion since then, but not getting very far so I thought I’d bring it to the boards for the wide variety of people and opinions that might be able to help.

Just as a simple, low key example…. Back rubs… I enjoy giving out back rubs. Most people seem to enjoy getting them and I like being able to bring that kind of enjoyment and relaxation to them. When I’m working on someone and I know that what I’m doing is effective my mind has a tendency to become very calm and centered and I get totally focused on what I’m doing. What muscles are tight, what type of touch is helping the best, what’s working to make this person relaxed…. And I’ll keep going until either they call a halt or my hands or something give out.

On the other hand if someone tries to do the same to me, while I can enjoy it for a short period, my mind begins to kick in. I start thinking they must be getting tired or bored and want to go do something else so I’ll make sure they know I’m appreciative, but they can stop anytime.

This extends to other more intense types of attention as well and isn’t usually a direct equation of back rub to back rub (more like giving a back rub to receiving a flogging), but I figured it would be an easy way to explain.

I haven’t quite figured out the why behind this behavior and I’m usually pretty good at determining my reasons for doing things. I’m also finding it hard to come up with a course of action. It’s so automatic that it didn’t even occur to me to question it until some recent circumstances created a sharp contrast situation. It just suddenly clicked that while I was comfortable giving I couldn’t seem to completely let myself go to enjoy the receiving without worrying about the effect, or at least the effort, on the giver.


Any insights, opinions and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks……..

 

[Primalex]

Do you feel that it is a problem for you that you prefer to be on the giving end or do you just _think_ that you should feel that it is a problem?

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

It's not that I enjoy giving that I'm having an issue with. And that's certainly not something I want to change. What's bothering me is that I seem to have a problem in receiving it in return. And it's not that I don't like whatever attention is being paid to me i.e. the back rub or the flogging, I'm actually enjoying it very much. What bother's me is that instead of relaxing and focusing on what's going on I start thinking more about whether my partner is getting tired or bored or whatever.

And I understand that thinking about your partner first is not a bad thing in itself, but on the other hand I'm not sure that the thought of proposing a stop to a scene because you think there's a possibility your partner doesn't want to continue is exactly a good thing either.

 

[PublicAffection]

I am probably more extreme than you, but I have this same problem. I like to knead my hunny's shoulders, rub his back, play with his hair, all that jazz. But I HATE being touched like that. I don't like having my back rubbed. I don't like having my hair played with for more than a few minutes. I don't like being caressed and snuggled very much.

I love to give the attention, but when I get it in return I get very agitated. It is something that I've had to learn to work around - and my tolerance for physical contact has gotten a lot better than it used to be - but I've really had to train myself to sit still and let someone touch me without pulling away/flinching.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Maybe it is as simple as trusting your partner to not only know when they wish to stop doing something, but that they will do so without needing your permission. LOL, I learned it the hard way by also thinking in the past that F might want to do/not do something in particular and then putting that thought into words such as 'it is OK if you want to x me', or 'you don't have to do x if you don't want to'. He made it clear that not only was I insulting his dominance and intelligence by telling him what he could or didn't need to do, but that I was also forgetting my postition in feeling it necessary to tell him how I felt about him doing/not doing x y z.

Catalina

 

[twysted73]

Being a Recovering Catholic, I find it's very much a sense of guilt that once plagued my mind in the past.
Same reason why some women can't really enjoy themselves unless they're tied up or otherwise incapacitated in some way.
It's the illusion of "guilt-free sex". You can't hold yourself responsible for not giving if your arms and ankles aren't able to return the favor.
It's might also be in your temperment and also in your nature to be an "extreme giver". Where to give is to get w/o actual reciprocation.
"Your pleasure is my pleasure".

I'm this way about blow jobs. My selfishness and personal gratification comes from the control I have over my partner when I indulge myself on them.

I know I'm fucking good at it.
I have a passion and a true, inner burning desire to eat and lick and that's not even engaging my animalistic nature's demands on the situation. *the scents, the flavors, the textures on the tongue, the viscoscity of the ever-increasing wetness...*

*shivers*

But if she sucks on me I feel she's doing it out of obligation and that bores me.
Either do it because you share my passion for giving oral or else do it because I'm sadistic and I want to see you suffer the process all the while knowing you're eating this up. (no pun intended)
..............Or even better, you're hating it and I'm being contentedly evil as you choke and spit and vomit and fight to catch small gasps of air inbetween thrusts............

*shivers again*

Thoughts?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Same reason why some women can't really enjoy themselves unless they're tied up or otherwise incapacitated in some way.
It's the allusion of "guilt-free sex". You can't hold yourself responsible for not giving if your arms and ankles aren't able to return the favor.

Thoughts?

Not sure I buy the guilt free sex idea. While it may apply to some as an illusion, I think it is far less likely to be the reason in this space in time than perhaps 50 years ago. Long gone are the days when most women felt ashamed of their sexuality, or were afraid to express it. Not to mention, being tied can be very giving with the right people, moment, and mindset...and of course consent.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2404/2348115271_546c815fd4_t.jpg Catalina

 

[twysted73]

Interesting point Catalina.

Not sure I buy the guilt free sex idea. While it may apply to some as an illusion, I think it is far less likely to be the reason in this space in time than perhaps 50 years ago. Long gone are the days when most women felt ashamed of their sexuality, or were afraid to express it. Not to mention, being tied can be very giving with the right people, moment, and mindset...and of course consent.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2404/2348115271_546c815fd4_t.jpg Catalina

But do consider this if you would. I firmly believe 50 years cannot erase what countless generations, hundreds of thousands of years have ingrained into the female psyche.

We still make movies today with damsels. Disney movies tap into that and most (not all) litle girls want to be the princess at some point in their lives.
You can't buck sexual evolution with one bra burning and a few decades of sit-ins.

I'm not a cheauvanist. I'm a realist as well as observant.
Why else would a rape fantasy be one of the top three of most women?
The feeling of helpless ravishment seems ingrained in the female mind. (speaking of the familiar intimacy, not necessarily the crime type)
Because it relieves the recipient of any obligatory reciprocative (if our moron president can make 'em up I can too) action. I.e. Guilt-free sex.
It's why sub-space is so cherished by subs.
It's a place they can go to or be taken to where the focus is on their enjoyment.

Rebuttal?

 

[nickollette]

I know what you're talking about Rox. I kind of think mine is more of a learned habbit to feel this way though. My last relationship was 4 yrs of me expected to give and to rarely(usually never) receive. I was always the one who had to give backrubs and never once received one, not even when I was pregnant and my back was killing me. Sexual stuff, I always had to be the giver and never received anything past actual sex. I resented it so much at the time. Now, I'm finding that I feel weird about receiving, can't really clear my mind enough to completely enjoy it. I usually think about whether or not the person likes doing it, if I need to hurry up and end it, are they bored, are they tolerating it just because they know I'll like it, all of this just interferes with the whole experience. Another thing I'm pretty paranoid about is sex. Once the initial mindset of having sex is gone, I start to get paranoid about if it lasts long because he can't get anything from it, does it not feel good, is he bored etc. I might just be overanalyzing everything but it's hard to erase years of a mentality I was expected to uphold.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

Maybe it is as simple as trusting your partner to not only know when they wish to stop doing something, but that they will do so without needing your permission. LOL, I learned it the hard way by also thinking in the past that F might want to do/not do something in particular and then putting that thought into words such as 'it is OK if you want to x me', or 'you don't have to do x if you don't want to'. He made it clear that not only was I insulting his dominance and intelligence by telling him what he could or didn't need to do, but that I was also forgetting my postition in feeling it necessary to tell him how I felt about him doing/not doing x y z.

Catalina

I hadn't thought of this in terms of giving permission. That actually gives me a different, hopefully more product way to try and come up with a solution. It did occur to me that I shouldn't presume to try and second guess how my partner's feeling about a certain activity, but the questioning thoughts of is he getting tired or bored always seem to come to mind before the other thought does.

I've never really out right asked if my partner was bored or wanted to quit, maybe that's something I could do until I do feel like he's doing what he wants for how long wants and not just because it's something he thinks I want.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

Being a Recovering Catholic, I find it's very much a sense of guilt that once plagued my mind in the past.
Same reason why some women can't really enjoy themselves unless they're tied up or otherwise incapacitated in some way.
It's the illusion of "guilt-free sex". You can't hold yourself responsible for not giving if your arms and ankles aren't able to return the favor.
It's might also be in your temperment and also in your nature to be an "extreme giver". Where to give is to get w/o actual reciprocation.
"Your pleasure is my pleasure".


Thoughts?

I'm not sure I can agree with the guilt free sex scenerio under these circumstances. One of the specific occurances that actually brought me to this question was being tied up receiving a flogging. Because of the way the event was initiated I was to be the person to call a halt to things. After the first little while of receiving the flogging I was no where near any kind of limit for me, but started to think that maybe I should end things because he was probably getting tired. I didn't at that particular moment, but those thoughts certainly distracted me from just relaxing and completely enjoying the activity.

 

[shy slave]

I can relate to much of what you have said Rox.

I really dislike being on the receiving end of good things.

I hate with a passion soft gentle caresses, they are like fingernails on a blackboard.

I am not great at being touched, massage etc does nothing for me and can leave me uptight and in a very bad tempered mood.

I never quite know what to do, laying there whilst someone else does these things to me.
There is an element of guilt, but it is also more than that. Like you I think the person doing such things must be getting bored or tired or fed up, etc, etc. Which niggles in my mind.

I also hate that these things make me the centre of attention. I am not a wall flower by any means but that one on one intensity is guaranteed to make me feel off balance and uncomfortable which again affects my mood.

I have now accepted that I don't enjoy these things and they realise that I am better at giving than getting.

Although, on the flip side I adore being close in bed, my head on him, his arm around me (as long as he doesn't do that stroking thing).

If the person I am with finds all that a struggle to accept, then maybe I am with the wrong person.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

I usually think about whether or not the person likes doing it, if I need to hurry up and end it, are they bored, are they tolerating it just because they know I'll like it, all of this just interferes with the whole experience.

This sounds very similar. Thank you helping to describe it so well. My back round isn't the same, but it does help to know that others understand.

 

[catalina_francisco]

But do consider this if you would. I firmly believe 50 years cannot erase what countless generations, hundreds of thousands of years have ingrained into the female psyche.

We still make movies today with damsels. Disney movies tap into that and most (not all) litle girls want to be the princess at some point in their lives.
You can't buck sexual evolution with one bra burning and a few decades of sit-ins.

I'm not a cheauvanist. I'm a realist as well as observant.
Why else would a rape fantasy be one of the top three of most women?
The feeling of helpless ravishment seems ingrained in the female mind. (speaking of the familiar intimacy, not necessarily the crime type)
Because it relieves the recipient of any obligatory reciprocative (if our moron president can make 'em up I can too) action. I.e. Guilt-free sex.
It's why sub-space is so cherished by subs.
It's a place they can go to or be taken to where the focus is on their enjoyment.

Rebuttal?

What you say is true, for some, not all. I also think you are only looking at it from one perspective, perhaps shaped by what you look for or like in a female partner more so than a broader view of female sexuality. Why are rape fantasies so popular? Not always because they represent a lack of need to reciprocate or being ravished...for some it is about humiliation, degradation, control, defilement, pain (physical, emotional and psychological), loss of something that cannot be regained, being forced to do something totally against their desire (often with someone they would never desire in reality, quite the opposite) are just a few variations on why it works for those it does. It is also worth noting that many rape fantasies are far from being inactive on the victim's part...for some it is about being made to please someone they despise or find revolting, to perform sex acts they would not normally do or at least prefer not to with their rapist, being forced to repeat the act over and over... all far from being a immobile participant. For some it is also about being in the position to make another move beyond what they would normally consider (ie. a rapist who would normally never act in such a way, being driven to it in some way)...once again a power play, but in the reverse form and a little more psychological in that the supposed victim is actually the one who feels in control, not the rapist.

My experience of women has been that while there are those who hold onto the princess and damsel in distress fantasies in the more traditional form which is sometimes fuelled by some overarching guilt factor, sometimes a desire to not be that involved, there are many more who have moved beyond feeling they need to make excuses for being sexual and embracing it. Some of the conversations I have been involved in about such topics often would make many a man's hair curl...decadence is no longer the sole delight of the male psyche. It is not inbuilt in women's psyche IMHO, but it can be convenient to promote it is. If it were an inbuilt thing and most women were still locked into belieiving sex is dirty/bad etc., and needed excuses for why they enjoyed it, there would not be female porn producers/directors in growing numbers, nor would the female population dominate the porn consumption figures in some places, and nor would so many women be willing to take on the role of PYL or simply taking charge of their own sexuality and doing something about going out and getting their needs fed, or taking what they want. In 2008 a woman can be equally comfortable being a princess as she can a slut, and praise the goddess and universe for finally making that acceptable.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2404/2348115271_546c815fd4_m.jpg Catalina

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

*snipped for thoughts*


Any insights, opinions and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks……..

It's funny to me but I find myself to be the same way. It's almost a phobic response for me. I love to touch, tease, taste..please. It's a soothing thing for me, this ability to get off on doing for someone else (whether sexual or not). I know for me it is all about control. I can not control the way I think, respond or whatever if I lie back and take it..therefore I don't, ever. *shrugs*

I do find that if I can control the amount, the pressure, the whatever you want to call it *flow if you will* that I can at least give someone else the joy of returning the favor every once in a while, but it's damned hard for me. Way harder than just doing things my way and giving the other person whatever is within me to give to them (whether that be a stroking, a touch, a hug, an ass paddling...whatever). My ex trainer from ages ago says that I have a trust/control issue and that may well be true. Who can say?

For sure you are not alone in your inability to let go and let the other person. The only difference (that I can see) between you and I are the reasons for it. You are over worried for the other person, I just would rather do it myself. *shrugs again*

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

I can relate to much of what you have said Rox.

I really dislike being on the receiving end of good things.

I hate with a passion soft gentle caresses, they are like fingernails on a blackboard.

I am not great at being touched, massage etc does nothing for me and can leave me uptight and in a very bad tempered mood.

I never quite know what to do, laying there whilst someone else does these things to me.
There is an element of guilt, but it is also more than that. Like you I think the person doing such things must be getting bored or tired or fed up, etc, etc. Which niggles in my mind.

I also hate that these things make me the centre of attention. I am not a wall flower by any means but that one on one intensity is guaranteed to make me feel off balance and uncomfortable which again affects my mood.

I have now accepted that I don't enjoy these things and they realise that I am better at giving than getting.

Although, on the flip side I adore being close in bed, my head on him, his arm around me (as long as he doesn't do that stroking thing).

If the person I am with finds all that a struggle to accept, then maybe I am with the wrong person.

Thanks for your input Shy_slave, I really appreciate it. I find I actually enjoy being touched. Crave it in some ways. Maybe too much, maybe it's about wanting more than I think I should?

Or maybe it's in part because soft, gentle touches never did much for me in the past and previous partners would become fustrated at not getting the responses they thought they should from me no matter how long or hard they tried. I did tend to try and turn the tables and make the focus about them instead. Maybe that's become so ingrained, almost an unconscious expectation that my mind automatically goes in that direction if I'm getting attention for too long a time.

 

[Rox_shybutcurious]

My ex trainer from ages ago says that I have a trust/control issue and that may well be true. Who can say?

For sure you are not alone in your inability to let go and let the other person. The only difference (that I can see) between you and I are the reasons for it. You are over worried for the other person, I just would rather do it myself. *shrugs again*

Now this gives me more to think about on this as well. I know that I have trust issues. More emotional than physical, but perhaps that's part of it. Since my mind seems to lean towards worrying about my partner it didn't occur to me that I might be afraid to relax that much into somebody else care. I don't think it would be a fear of anything physical holding me back though so I'm not sure if that would be part of it or not.

 

[twysted73]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2404/2348115271_546c815fd4_m.jpg Catalina

Good point, again.

I do hate taking on the unenlightened half of the conversation but it's necessary sometime (i think) to bring out the very best of an explination such as the one you provided.

 

[nh23]

I had one of those light bulb realization moments several weeks ago. I’m not quite sure how to phrase it exactly beyond that I seem to have a problem being on the receiving end of pleasure vs. the giving of it. I’ve been pondering the notion since then, but not getting very far so I thought I’d bring it to the boards for the wide variety of people and opinions that might be able to help.

Just as a simple, low key example…. Back rubs… I enjoy giving out back rubs. Most people seem to enjoy getting them and I like being able to bring that kind of enjoyment and relaxation to them. When I’m working on someone and I know that what I’m doing is effective my mind has a tendency to become very calm and centered and I get totally focused on what I’m doing. What muscles are tight, what type of touch is helping the best, what’s working to make this person relaxed…. And I’ll keep going until either they call a halt or my hands or something give out.

On the other hand if someone tries to do the same to me, while I can enjoy it for a short period, my mind begins to kick in. I start thinking they must be getting tired or bored and want to go do something else so I’ll make sure they know I’m appreciative, but they can stop anytime.

This extends to other more intense types of attention as well and isn’t usually a direct equation of back rub to back rub (more like giving a back rub to receiving a flogging), but I figured it would be an easy way to explain.

I haven’t quite figured out the why behind this behavior and I’m usually pretty good at determining my reasons for doing things. I’m also finding it hard to come up with a course of action. It’s so automatic that it didn’t even occur to me to question it until some recent circumstances created a sharp contrast situation. It just suddenly clicked that while I was comfortable giving I couldn’t seem to completely let myself go to enjoy the receiving without worrying about the effect, or at least the effort, on the giver.


Any insights, opinions and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks……..

I don't really have any suggestions..but wanted to tell you that I'm like this myself to and extent. My PYL "pets" me a lot..and that I can enjoy. I love it. But on the other side for example last week we were showering together and after washing him, he took the soap and started to wash me. I froze..lol. It felt very weird and foreign. I also get anxious for example if it takes me a long time to cum during play etc..I get that same feeling you do. Worrying that they may be bored, or tired.

What I do is what was pretty much suggested by others. I make myself realize that he is the PYL in the situation and if he didn't want to be doing it,he wouldn't. If he was bored or tired he would stop. Good Luck chickie