BDSM and the Mentally Ill

[Light Ice]

As an outsider, and with no offense meant, I would be interested in listening to the feedback of community members on whether or not they feel the BDSM community attracts a greater percentage of mentally unstable individuals than, say, more common bedroom behavior?

There's a difficulty in phrasing with this question, mostly because I've seen the BDSM Community stand alone in that it's a sexual -community-.

But if you can decipher what I've attempted to put forward, could you reply?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I know we have had a few threads on this, but they are not in the new library as yet (under construction). If I find them I will link them here. Personally I don't think there is any more liklihood of someone with mental illness opting for BDSM than mainstream. It is just another facet of society and those within it, and often subjective as to whether it is actually mental illness or just that the psyche community have not reached a point of enlightenment and/or understanding as yet. (eg. homosexuality used to be listed as a mental illness)

Catalina

 

[snowy ciara]

I don't think we attract any more or less mentally ill people than any other part of the population. I do know that depending on how the person handles their illness may affect their ability to find a partner in the community. This might sound as a slam to the non kink community, but it's not meant that way, but in my opinion, in the pan-fetish community (as opposed to the "closed" communities out there) we tend to be a bit more honest about our issues. That may be where the perception that so many of us are sick in this way. I doubt the number of say, manic depressive personalities is any higher in the kink community than in the vanilla community, but we tend to be more upfront about it. I don't think we're more forthright because we're kinky; there's no real moral superiority to kink in itself. But we're playing a lot in the dark, spooky corners of our brains, and full disclosure is a must. Kinksters have to negotiate our sex lives more than vanillas which leads to an illusion that there's more mentally ill people than in the non kink community.

Edited to add:

Also, I think we tend to draw a line between the mentally unstable and the mentally ill. People who display depressive tendencies are likely to be supported. People who display psychopathic tendencies tend to be ignored. If you act like a clueless fuck with no limits, most of us are NOT going to be with you, no matter how hawt you may be.

 

[FurryFury]

I would be interested in listening to the feedback of community members on whether or not they feel the BDSM community attracts a greater percentage of mentally unstable individuals than, say, more common bedroom behavior?

No, not at all. It's far too easy to buy into the idea that would be the case. I understand that. It is somewhat vexing nonetheless that this question seems to intuitive to so many. Inherent in the question is disdain for that which we do.

I'm personally convinced that the BDSM sub group is no more, mentally ill, fat, skinny, abused as kids and so on than any other group.

 

[Primalex]

As an outsider, and with no offense meant, I would be interested in listening to the feedback of community members on whether or not they feel the BDSM community attracts a greater percentage of mentally unstable individuals than, say, more common bedroom behavior?

It attracts less. Where is the fun in abusing a masochist?

 

[myinnerslut]

interesting. i was talking with somebody the other day who felt that there was a high correlation between the two. im a masochist, so in simple terms my brain interprets pain in a twisted way. its interesting to wonder how i would react if i havnt been taking brain chemical altering since i was very young. im bipolare and im a submissive masochist, and i dont know what if anything that has to do with the other, but itsinterested to ponder.

 

[EmpressFi]

interesting. i was talking with somebody the other day who felt that there was a high correlation between the two. im a masochist, so in simple terms my brain interprets pain in a twisted way. its interesting to wonder how i would react if i havnt been taking brain chemical altering since i was very young. im bipolare and im a submissive masochist, and i dont know what if anything that has to do with the other, but itsinterested to ponder.

I dont know that it correlates. I'm a masochist as well. It's not all sexual enjoyment, but I enjoy the pain. But I dont take mood altering medications for anything. I've just always enjoyed it. I have a scar on my right hand because I gave myself the "sissy test" (for those who dont know/remember it's taking a pencil eraser and rubbing it on the back of your hand until it hurts too much so you ask the one doing it to stop). Well one scar has faded, the other's almost gone because I did it to myself.. twice... I just enjoyed it

 

[BiBunny]

Is there a way to answer without offending someone? No, probably not, but that never stopped me before.

All righty, first of all, I think that perception may be skewed a bit if you're viewing a bunch of people in a chatroom or a forum as "the BDSM community." There are large numbers of unstable people in venues such as those who never have and never will do what we do in real life. (No, I'm not going to argue about the validity of online vs. real-life or whatever.) I'm just saying that anything "online" attracts droves of supposed "Experts" who are quite out there in their thinking and have never tried any of this stuff before in their lives. This is not limited to BDSM-ers, either. I post on several horse message boards, and when talking about horse things, it becomes pretty obvious who's knowledgeable and who's never sat on a horse in his/her life.

Secondly, I think if you take a cross-section of people who are really involved with BDSM, you'll find that there's pretty much a representative sample of the population as a whole. It's like when people ask why there are so many fat people in "the community." Well, if 60% of the overall population is overweight, then we can reasonably expect 60% or so of BDSM-ers to be overweight. The difference is, it's a smaller population, so that 60% or so appears larger and more prevalent than it really is. If you've got ten crazy people in a group of 100 and one crazy person in a group of ten, the percentage of crazy people is the same, but the one person in the group of ten is going to stand out more.

Did that make sense at all?

 

[myinnerslut]

I dont know that it correlates. I'm a masochist as well. It's not all sexual enjoyment, but I enjoy the pain. But I dont take mood altering medications for anything. I've just always enjoyed it. I have a scar on my right hand because I gave myself the "sissy test" (for those who dont know/remember it's taking a pencil eraser and rubbing it on the back of your hand until it hurts too much so you ask the one doing it to stop). Well one scar has faded, the other's almost gone because I did it to myself.. twice... I just enjoyed it

oh, i know that they can be mutually exclusive. what i was wondering is did the fact that ive been taking these meds for years change how i personally would percieve pain as pleasure? would i still be the same lovable maso that i am without pumping lithium and all manor of other dopamine and seretonin regulating chemicals into my system?


the answer is probably yes since my masochistic urges started way younger then when i was diagnosed, but its still a question that pops up for me from time to time.

 

[RJMasters]

LightIce,

An interesting question, however the answering of such a question nearly as difficult as in the asking of it. This is because such conversations begin with assumptions on both side of the issue. For example, in order to determine what is mentally ill, one must first have an understanding of what is mentally stable or to say that another way, one must first have an understanding of what they consider as mentally normal.

The above shows why such conversations are hard to progress through due to the fact the people engaging in the discussion have their own ideas of what normalicy is. As pointed out by Catalina, homosexuality at one time was considered to be mentally unstable and abnormal. Though it may not be consider this way any longer, there are still many who still see it as not normal and therefore something is wrong with them.

One of the criteria for putting someone into an insane asylum is to determine if an individual will be a danger to themselves or to others because they are mentally unstable. What I mean by being a danger is translated into hurting or doing harm to themselves or others. The fact that a person wants to hurt themselves or others is considered a state of mental unstableness.

So how then does someone outide of BDSM look at others who admittedly say as a masochist, I want and need pain. How do they look at a sadist who says that he wants to be the disperser of pain. And to make things even more scary, lets throw in the fact that these wants and desire are all tied to sexual drives and passions. I say more scary because the first thing a person thinks of who is an outsider, to BDSM, in regards to sexual behavior that deviates from the norm, are things like rape. Now throw in on top of that all the taboos and sterotypes that society traditionaly associates with sexual behavior for good measure and you end up with a very difficult subject to broach.

Now let's step away from the sexual-pain elements and just consider the whole power exchange. The thought of someone being submissive, the thought of someone being in control. In today's society, women who are very dominant sexually are still considered an oddity of sorts. Whereas, women who want to be submissive are viewed also as an oddity as well. Switching to the male gender, men who are dominant are considered ego maniacs, and men who wish to be submissive are questioned in regards to their very manhood.

As you think about this, it is clear that to be in any one of these areas or to identify in as dominant or submissive in either gender, you are clearly an oddity and not normal.

As so you see, this is where many have come to challenge the concept of normalcy. Because normalcy is the unit of measure in which people based their judgements and assumptions on. In order to engage in a conversation or a discussion with someone in regards to answering your question, the first thing I wish to know is how open minded are they in regards to what "normal" behavior is, specifically in regards to sexual behavior.

Saying that, I can say from personal experience of knowing others in the BDSM sphere, and also knowing my own self, I think people who are part of BDSM tend to be mentally stronger and healthier. They tend to have a stonger sense of self actualization than others in regards to their own sexuality.

As with any other group in society, you will have porportionally those who are unstable, however that should not be confused by the group's defining traits or characteristics which defy normalicy.

I think one of the biggest problem with mainstream society is that tend to make others feel they are mentally ill because a person may be different. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard people say how excited and releived they are to have found BDSM because for the first time in their life they feel free. Free from what? Free from having to stuff down inside of them and hide who they truly are. Ironically when people hide who they are and stuff things down, that is when a person develops mental illness type problems and why they often have to seek out therapy in order to get those things up and out.

So to answer your question, I do not think it is true that the BDSM community attracts a greater percentage of mentally unstable individuals. It does attract those who defy the definition of normalicy, and due to that, often earns the reputation of not be trusted, misunderstood, and/or being abnormal by those outside looking in.

 

[bdsm_librarian]

Health - Mental - Referenced Threads available to compliment the ongoing discussion

 

[snowy ciara]

Did that make sense at all?

Perfect sense. It's kinda like the old joke about 1 in 4 people are certifiably insane. Look at your three closest friends and try to figure out who the crazy one is. If you can't figure it out, go find a mirror... I'm probably the crazy one among my friends.

 

[BiBunny]

Perfect sense. It's kinda like the old joke about 1 in 4 people are certifiably insane. Look at your three closest friends and try to figure out who the crazy one is. If you can't figure it out, go find a mirror... I'm probably the crazy one among my friends.

I know it's gotta me in my little circle of friends. Or else we're all crazy.

 

[Light Ice]

It attracts less. Where is the fun in abusing a masochist?

This has been my opinion, and it is reinforced in the interactions I've watched on these forums. The women seem capable and quite healthy.

 

[Guest]

As an outsider, and with no offense meant, I would be interested in listening to the feedback of community members on whether or not they feel the BDSM community attracts a greater percentage of mentally unstable individuals than, say, more common bedroom behavior?

There's a difficulty in phrasing with this question, mostly because I've seen the BDSM Community stand alone in that it's a sexual -community-.

But if you can decipher what I've attempted to put forward, could you reply?

AN ANONYMOUS SURVEY OF SELF-IDENTIFIED BDSM PRACTITIONERS USING THE GHQ
Robert Bienvenu, Ph.D.; H. Jack McGeorge; Trevor Jacques; J. Paul Fedoroff, M.D.

Data in this survey suggest that SM practitioners, as a group, do not have a higher incidence of psychological difficulties than other populations. These findings suggest that participation in sexual relationships that involve dominance and submission, conventionally referred to as sadomasochistic
(SM) relationships, does not necessarily indicate a higher likelihood of psychological or interpersonal distress in samples recruited outside of criminal or mental health care settings.

Here's the link:

http://www.sexresearch.org/SSSS/PDFs/IASR_2003_B_McG_Jacques.pdf

 

[Guest]

GROUNDBREAKING STUDY OF BDSM AND PSYCHOPATHOLOGY

Finally, research proves what we've known all along: people in the BDSM community are as psychologically healthy as everyone else – maybe healthier. On June 8, 2003, Dr. Pamela Connolly, Director of the Los Angeles Sexuality Center and Professor of Psychology at California Graduate Institute, presented results of the Center's groundbreaking study at the Annual Conference of the American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors and Therapists. Dr. Connolly and her colleagues gave a battery of psychological tests to members of the BDSM community and to 'vanilla' controls. They found few differences between controls and kinksters – except that BDSM'ers are LESS likely than others to suffer from major psychopathology (maybe it all gets worked out in the 'scene'!). Moreover, BDSM players had no greater levels of psychological sadism or masochism, disorders in which the sufferer either derives pleasure out of genuine cruelty (not the play-acting kind) or compulsively seeks out harmful levels of pain.

http://www.ipgcounseling.com/growingDiv_1.html#3

 

[Guest]

And here: http://www.revisef65.org/psychopathology.html

Cross and Matheson (2006):

Cross and Matheson (2006) found no support for the traditional theories that sadomasochism is an illness.

The researchers found no evidence for the psychopathology/medical-model contention that masochists suffer from any kind of mental disorder and that SM-sadists are antisocial (Krafft-Ebing 1886/1965).

There was no support for the traditional psychoanalytic view of self-harming and guilt-ridden masochists or id-driven and psychopatic SM-sadists (Freud 1900/1906/1953/1954).

Cross and Matheson neither found any evidence for Baumeister’s contention that masochists were more inclined to engage in escapist behaviors such as drug-taking, day-dreaming, or fantasizing than the comparison group (Baumeister 1988, 1989).

Cross and Matheson did however find that SM participants were overall more likely than non-SM respondents to report bisexual/homosexual orientations.

No evidence was found suggesting that sadomasochists espoused anti-feminist, patriarchal values or traditional gender roles to a greater extent that the non-SM-group.

And the sadomasochists were relatively more likely to be in ongoing relationships than the comparison group.

Patricia A. Cross PhD and Kim Matheson PhD in the book “Sadomasochism: Powerful Pleasures” (2006), published simultaneously as the Journal of Homosexuality, Vol. 50, Nos. 2/3.)

 

[faeriefire]

LightIce,

As so you see, this is where many have come to challenge the concept of normalcy. Because normalcy is the unit of measure in which people based their judgements and assumptions on. In order to engage in a conversation or a discussion with someone in regards to answering your question, the first thing I wish to know is how open minded are they in regards to what "normal" behavior is, specifically in regards to sexual behavior...I think one of the biggest problem with mainstream society is that tend to make others feel they are mentally ill because a person may be different. .

I like the way you think

I can offer very little insight into the bdsm side of this question, but from the 'nilla side can say I have seen in clinics any number of assult victims, people beaten by husbands and wives, people running from stalkers and trying to protect children, people suffering from drug use and alcoholism. Granted, not all cases related eclusively to mental health, but seems to me that is better for sub to lay out ground rules before a scene and have a safeword than for a couple to beat on each other for years while people look the other way. Oftentimes abuse is covered up or overlooked because either the victim is not well supported or unwilling to press charges. My perception of bdsm relationships makes me think there is at least a choice on the part of both parties to smartly, safely, consenually enter play. Hope this helps a bit

 

[Betticus]

As an outsider, and with no offense meant, I would be interested in listening to the feedback of community members on whether or not they feel the BDSM community attracts a greater percentage of mentally unstable individuals than, say, more common bedroom behavior?

There's a difficulty in phrasing with this question, mostly because I've seen the BDSM Community stand alone in that it's a sexual -community-.

But if you can decipher what I've attempted to put forward, could you reply?

It's considered inappropriate to beat retards.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

As an outsider, and with no offense meant, I would be interested in listening to the feedback of community members on whether or not they feel the BDSM community attracts a greater percentage of mentally unstable individuals than, say, more common bedroom behavior?

In a word, no. People are people are people are people. Doesn't matter if they are kinky, vanilla, puritanical, Christian, atheist, Muslim, Hindu, sci-i fans, mundane, gamers, comic book readers, auto mechanics, sailors, whatever. Take everyone who identifies as "BDSM" oriented, do an indepth survey of mental health issues and you will find looney-tunes in roughly the same overall percentage as the rest of humanity.

That is to say, roughly 100%.

Because EVERYONE is crazy some way or another.