A New Definition of Religion

[dr_mabeuse]

We haven't fought about religion in a while.

The word "religion" comes from the Latin verb "ligare", to bind together, (I've always maintained BDSM has religious overtones ). William James defined religion as "the feelings, acts, and experiences" of people who "apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider to be divine." This was at an age, unlike our own, when not everyone was embarrased by the concept of the "divine".

A book by the professor of comparative religion Peter Gardella offers this interesting, more modern definition of religion: A system of nonrational beliefs that holds life together.

Any takers?

 

[English Lady]

*waits for Joe W to turn up*

 

[Guest]

I think diets and dietary philosophies are the new religions.

Maharat

 

[impressive]

I think diets and dietary philosophies are the new religions.

Maharat

And Oprah.

 

[Guest]

We haven't fought about religion in a while.

The word "religion" comes from the Latin verb "ligare", to bind together, (I've always maintained BDSM has religious overtones ). William James defined religion as "the feelings, acts, and experiences" of people who "apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider to be divine." This was at an age, unlike our own, when not everyone was embarrased by the concept of the "divine".

A book by the professor of comparative religion Peter Gardella offers this interesting, more modern definition of religion: A system of nonrational beliefs that holds life together.

Any takers?

That's just 'cause people say, "Oh, God!" a lot, isn't it?

I have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion, though.

 

[tickledkitty]

That's just 'cause people say, "Oh, God!" a lot, isn't it?

I have nothing intelligent to add to the discussion, though.

Me neither. Although the vision I had of Doc M wearing boxing gloves was sort of...well...sexy.

 

[Guest]

Me neither. Although the vision I had of Doc M wearing boxing gloves was sort of...well...sexy.

Certainly.

He needs to put the cigar down first, though.

 

[rgraham666]

I think diets and dietary philosophies are the new religions.

Maharat

And Oprah.

Money. And economics.

I'll bring out my old canard.

Religions always end up being ideologies. And ideologies are not about being good, but about being right.

 

[rgraham666]

Certainly.

He needs to put the cigar down first, though.

What? Don't want a little Bill Clinton type action.

Besides a woman adds a wonderful flavour to a cigar.

Don't ask me how I know this.

 

[tickledkitty]

What? Don't want a little Bill Clinton type action.

Besides a woman adds a wonderful flavour to a cigar.

Don't ask me how I know this.

Ok, so maybe he doesn't need to put it down, just put it out.

 

[sr71plt]

What I'd like to know is whether you capitalize "divine" in a book on religion or not. I have two authors going both ways on this and it's driving me crazy. One of the authors is the daughter of a Baptist minister and the other one has been dead for 30 years and is channeling her take on life back through a medium (strangely enough, she doesn't seem to want to talk about death all that much). Both of them are treating "divine" in their manuscripts like a piston engine. Up, down, up, down.

 

[shereads]

My Jamaican yard man says, "I love God and hate religion."

Many of us think of religion as a tool of power, profit, social bonding and control, that has little to do with spirituality.

Unlike Joe the yard man, I don't hate religion. I hate and fear some religious organizations; hate the control they work so hard to exert over the lives of non-participants. But I remain fascinated by the rituals and mystery of religions that still embrace those things.

Growing up protestant, I saw God stripped of mystery and reduced to the level of a mean-tempered, jealous old man. My heart has always told me there's more to it than that.

If I were tied up more often, with sturdier knots, I'm sure the value of ritual would become more clear.

 

[lisa123414]

I’ll bite *snerk*

Interesting, the use of “nonrational” in this definition. Nonrational is based on intuition vice reason whereas irrational means in spite of reason. To me that makes this a rather good definition. Religion may teach behavior that is personally, in the moment, disappointing, but tends to make for a better or healthier person, or community. Even though science is usually cast as the enemy, it seems astounding to me how many of the basic tenets of many a “successful” religion have been confirmed by science. Since much of religion is geared toward the psyche, and psychology is still a science in its infancy, it stands to reason, that there is not yet enough reason…well, you know.

 

[cantdog]

'Nonrational' is quite good, but I prefer James. I must have missed the effect of binding life together. Never noticed it doing that, frankly.

 

[sr71plt]

I think "nonrational" is a prejudicial word here. I've heard a ton of scientists say that they can't rationally conceptualize the universe and how it works without incorporating the concept of a "God" force--which leads to religion. I don't have to throw this concept out just because the instutional religious and antireligious nuts of the world tell me I have to.

 

[cantdog]

I don't think religion would necessarily need to be nonrational if one uses James's model. Mystics are quite empirical, sometimes, and mysticism is entirely about the manner and characteristics of apprehending oneself to stand in some relation to the divine.

But the binding life together thing is projection. Oh, you can bind your life to it, as you might any enthusiasm. You could also LARP, but that wouldn't make LARP a force binding life together.

 

[cantdog]

A ton of scientists? That's ten or so?

 

[cantdog]

Seven particularly beefy ones?

 

[sr71plt]

Seven particularly beefy ones?

Well, I let Stephen Hawking's weigh in with his wheel chair, so we'll say eight and not split hairs just to be snide, shall we?

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think religion would necessarily need to be nonrational if one uses James's model. Mystics are quite empirical, sometimes, and mysticism is entirely about the manner and characteristics of apprehending oneself to stand in some relation to the divine.

But the binding life together thing is projection. Oh, you can bind your life to it, as you might any enthusiasm. You could also LARP, but that wouldn't make LARP a force binding life together.

You. Would that be a single you or a ton of yous?

 

[Guest]

A ton of scientists? That's ten or so?

Seven particularly beefy ones?

Damn it, damn it, damn it!

Warn me before I spit tea all over my monitor!

 

[cantdog]

While we're doing derivations, the word religio in the early church writings refers consistently to the actions of it, the ritual observances. Augustine's book is called "Of True Religion" but that's a gross mistranslation, now, because we mean something else today when we use that word.

"Religion" is used today to refer mostly to entire traditions, considered as logical entities, as objects of discourse. One speaks of a Christian religion, a Zoroastrian one, and so on. A lot of time and ink goes into defining these entities and comparing them. But the way one's actual apprehension of the divine is done, the experience of it-- this has little to do with such discussions. I think that's the disconnect, the key error. The apprehension of the divine is not what's being discussed.

 

[The_Fool]

I would prefer to use the concept "religion is a series of beliefs that may include aspects that are not proven, but instead require an act of faith, as in an active suspension of disbelief. Things that are not proven or unknowable are not necessarily unbelievable.”

 

[Guest]

I would prefer to use the concept "religion is a series of beliefs that may include aspects that are not proven, but instead require an act of faith, as in an active suspension of disbelief. Things that are not proven or unknowable are not necessarily unbelievable.”

Like Santa.

 

[cantdog]

The Second Coming compared to Santa Claus Is Coming To Town. Sounds like an essay question answer. I don't miss that part of teaching.

I still go with James.