So who's my owner? Jekyll or Hide?

[VelvetDarkness]

It probably seems like I only come here with problems to offload but I value the advice and insight I get showered with here so much, that it's really all your own fault.

This is going to be something of a ramble, so apologies, but I think it's best if I get all this down and give you guys as much information as I can.

I want to talk about my Master, who is very depressed right now. I don't know whether he'll read this at any point but I'll try not to let it affect the way I write. He has my passwords and the right to read through what I get up to online but he rarely chooses to.

My Master, L, has a history of depression. I knew this to be the case from when we first got together and have taken it on board. He has tearful moments and other times where he goes silent and introverted or goes out for a long walk alone. For the most part I've let him handle things his own way and endeavoured not to become a part of the problem or say the wrong thing and make him feel bad. If I try to talk to him about it he tells me that it's just who he is and can't be changed. Then he changes the subject. I find that so frustrating because I really want to try and understand what's going on with him.

He has a long history of being generally unhappy. He was a ginger haired, buck toothed kid and got bullied viciously and systematically all the way through school. This shafted any hope of him developing any self esteem. He's always been something of a loner. He has friends who he deeply values but isn't really a social creature. He is happier playing computer games than going out for the evening. He went to university but hated his course and barely passed it. He made some enduring friendships and played in a band.

After university in Birmingham he stayed in the same town and started working from home as a freelance internet researcher. He liked being able to work as and when he wanted to and devoted his free time to his music (he plays lead and bass guitar in an angry, rock/metal fashion) and his computer games. All of these are quite insular activities. He only earned enough each month to cover his basic essentials and a bit of booze/game/music equipment money but wasn't really bothered about it. Neither of us are materialistic.

Then we met and we had a LDR for a while. We talked about moving in together but he was scared that if we did get a place he'd carry on doing the bare minimum to get through life and end up being a burden to me. He was also reluctant to move in knowing how generally depressed he was. His housemates moved on and he went back to his home town in Wales and rented a room from an old friend.

Three months after he moved to Wales he changed his mind and asked if I still wanted to live with him. I said yes and so we got a small house together. I was happier about how things worked out because when his old flatmates were moving out I worried that he'd end up living with me for want of a better idea. So I think it's good that he went to Wales for a while. He was in the same village he grew up in, a couple of streets away from his parents.

(his parents are the most amicably divorced people on the planet. They live at opposite ends of the same street, see each other most days and at christmas we all had a meal together. His mum is seeing someone but his dad is resolutely single)

So now we're living together and have done so for 5 months. Things have been really good between us on the whole. I was worried about him moving to a new town where he had no friends. It has taken him time to make his own friends because he doesn't have much in common with mine but he now has a few mates that he hangs out with and occasionally makes angry rock music with.

So what's the actual problem? Get to the fucking point! I hear you cry. (if you're still reading that is.

Master has been spiralling a bit. Moving from Wales to Kent sapped his finances quite a bit and his last income tax bill was a lot more than he expected. He borrowed money from me and from his Mum in order to stay afloat. This depressed him as he felt that he should have done more work, earned more money and filed his tax return earlier, all of which a probably true.

He has been looking for a regular job because the internet work went totally dead after Christmas and he's found it hard to make enough money even when he is working long hours and that has demoralized him further. In the last few weeks he found a job working for a company that designs computer software for dental surgeries. He started on Monday this week.

Because he's been working from home since he was a student, L had no smart clothes of any description. We went out and got him some shirts and ties and trousers etc. He generally freaks out a bit about new things and by the time he got as far as last weekend he had a panic attack. He's had a few over the past couple of months.

One of the problems I think he's having is that he's letting go of idealistic dreams he's had since childhood. (L's 24 btw) He's acknowledged to himself that he's (probably) never going to achieve international rock superstardom and (probably) not going to marry Rachel Weiss or Isla Fisher. He's at something of a crossroads and although he wants the security of a regular paycheque and set working hours, he never really envisioned himself sat in a shirt and tie, pecking away at dental surgery software for eight hours a day. He's worried that he's about to settle and to be discontented for the rest of his life. That doesn't mean that he has a better idea or knows what he'd really like to do as a career (except be a rock star or chief games tester at Nintendo) He came back from his interview last week and was upset because he was asked what his greatest life achievement was and he couldn't think of anything.

I know none of this sounds particularly domly but he does really enjoy being my Master, it's one of his few outlets.

He's put on some weight though and is now the heaviest he's ever been (6ft tall, 225lb) which was another reason why buying his corporate uniform depressed him.

I know this all sounds whiny but I'm really not articulating just how stressed out and unhappy he feels.

I work away from home most weekends. L has always enjoyed a drink. We both do. If we have a meal out we'll share a bottle of wine. If he goes out with friends he can get very drunk. He has always had a large capacity for alcohol and if anything his weight gain has made him even more able to hold his drink. What I didn't know though, is that he has been binge drinking when I'm away to really unhealthy levels.

I usually come home Monday mornings but the weekend before last I was offered a lift by a friend and got back at about 11pm Sunday night. L was completely drunk. In the time since I left the previous Friday afternoon he had consumed a litre of strong whiskey and 3 bottles of strong red wine.

I talked to him about it the next day and he opened up for the first and so far only time about the extent of his depression. L first of all said that I had to remember that he loves me and that none of this has anything to do with me.

Then he told me that he hates waking up in the morning and goes to bed at night hoping he'll die in his sleep. He feels anxious and angry all the time. He panics about money and about the future. He hates his music, thinks everything he writes is crap and often wants to smash up his guitars and equipment. He often feels like running away. He often feels suicidal. He feels that he has done nothing in his life except the bare minimum to get by and that he'll never achieve anything because of his self defeating attitude. He hates himself, thinks he's a fuck up and a loser. He thinks that I'm stupid and deluded for being in love with him.

I asked him about his drinking and he admitted that he's been binging (sp?) when I'm not there. He's also been buying junk food when he's been telling me he wants to lose weight and I've been buying and cooking healthy food for him. I told him that his drinking was harmful and he said that as he wants to be dead, it doesn't really matter.

After all that he wanted some space so he went for a walk. I couldn't believe what he'd said and that I hadn't known how unhappy he was.

Since then I've tried to broach the subject of therapy but he won't hear of it. He refuses to discuss it and I've backed of for fear of alienating him. Since that weekend he's gone through a bottle of wine most days and this weekend he had a friend round and got through a bottle of whiskey single handedly. He spent the whole of the next day throwing up.

On valentine's day he gave me a card in which he'd written that he loves me, I'm the best thing that ever happened to him and he's looking forward to spending the rest of his life with me. Most of the time he is my loving Master and SO. His sex drive has diminished but I'm not surprised. When we do have sex it's still very M/s and still a wonderful, bonding experience. It's like he's living in two parallel realities. How can he spend every waking moment wanting to die and then write me a card like that? I don't understand and I'm scared for him.

I don't have a great deal of experience with depression, certainly not with anything as severe as this. If he won't discuss seeing a GP or therapist I'm not sure what I can do that's useful. I'm terrified of doing or saying something that exacerbates things or makes him feel even worse. He already feels awful for admitting how depressed he is and I really don't want him to feel bad for that.

I feel honoured that he chose to confide in me and I'm scared that I'll lose that confidence if I keep trying to push him to get some kind of professional help. But what else can I do? If I do nothing and he does something really stupid one day I'll feel terrible. I am so not equipped to deal with this.

Thankyou for wading through all this. Any insights are very gratefully received.

 

[catalina_francisco]

From what you have said I would agree he has a huge depression problem, a drinking problem which is beyond self manageable (I was married to an alcoholic many moons ago), and is also as you say feeling he is at a crossroads where he feels compelled to produce some wonderful life plan. Unfortunately, none of these things are easy to cope with, especially if someone is not open to accessing help from professionals at some level. Would it help to suggest he go for a medical check....have a series of tests done to check his health in general? This may help pinpoint physical problems, and may help him come to terms with accessing help for the issues he is struggling with. His depression alone is going to make seeing the future and positive steps difficult, if not impossible.

It is good he has been open with you, but you also cannot assume responsibility for his decisions and outcomes. Be supportive by all means, but don't fall into the trap of feeling it is your responsibility as there is nothing you can do if he roadblocks you, nor can you be responsible for his behaviour. Let him know how you are feeling (be brutally honest if need be), let him know you intend to remain supportive, but also let him know you cannot assume responsibility and how much it would mean to you, your relationship, and future together if he would even consider going to talk to someone. Emphasis that talking does not mean he has to follow up, it is just a step toward trying to be proactive about his own future and the decisions will remain all his.

As to career and success. This is something I always feel strongly about as we are programmed to measure success and achievement in dollar terms. Get a high paid job, climb the corporate (or any other) ladder, live to work instead of work to live, and you are considered successful and worthwhile. I OTOH don't necessarily agree that is the way to measure a persons success or worth. I am more interested in whether that person is happy with themselves, whether they are a good person in terms of how they treat the world/others, are they comfortable in their won skin, less so about the size of their bank account or pay cheque. Perhaps talking to him about success not being measured in terms of money might help him to relax as it seems from what you say he was happy with not working overmuch and just managing to keep going until recently. Perhaps between you, you could come up with a plan which would work better for him. Perhaps he would consider seeing a lifestyle coach to discuss ideas and where he wants his life to go and how to achieve that.

Sorry I don't have any magical ideas of how to fix things, but I do think you are dealing with a lot of complex issues, or more to the point, he is, and somehow he needs to be able to compartmentalise the issues and deal with them one at a time until it all comes together. This is easier said than done, especially if he won't seek help. He is the only one who can take that step and all I can offer is for you to be there for him, but maintain a healthy level of detachment which allows you to continue being supportive without being dragged down yourself. I know it isn't easy and is painful to watch someone you love go through, but just being there can sometimes be worth more than all the pills and money in the world.

Catalina

 

[Miki647]

I suffered from depression for most of my life, and I wish I could tell you that there is something that you could do to make things better for your "L". You have a struggle ahead of you, since it is very difficult to live with a depressed person. I would suggest that YOU get some therapy just so that you can have an outlet for all of the stress and emotional upheaval that you are no doubt going through.

 

[RJMasters]

Hmm there is a lot there going on, and no chance for really offering substantial help except perhaps to give you a few things to think on which come to mind as I read your post. I hope what I offer may help even if in a small way.

When I was younger I attended a class where I learned about Maslow's heigharchy of needs. Here is a link if you have never seen it or heard of it, even though its Wikipeadia, i read it and it is a pretty acurate representation of his theory. Anyways at the time I didn't like his theroy as it had huge holes in it which I felt could not be explained, and in some ways still do, but over the years I have learned that his theory does hold a lot of truth to it. A crude summary of his theory is basicly this: Human motivation is often dictated and controlled by levels of human need starting with "Physiological needs" such as food, water, air, sex, warmth. Then comes "Safety needs" such as personal security, financial security, and health and wel-being. etc. When these things are met, everything tends to be normal and allows for higher needs to be met or sought after unhindered, but when these things are not met, aniety and anxiousness can set in. (I.e. read: panic attacks)

As I read your post, you mention a lot of things which are part of these two areas. A lack of or low on money as an example which can lead one to worry about the future, food, a place to live etc... And then you add on top if it the realization that perhaps he might not ever achieve the things he truly dreamed of for his life.

Another way to say this is that sometimes life's circumstances become so great, a person loses the ability to cope with it all and begin to spiral downwards.

How can you help?

Well one thing you can do is encourage him by letting him know that despite the circumstances of life, you are in his corner and always will be. Whatever comes, you will face it together as a team. Perhaps in his old life he was alone and learned to be a loner, but that was his past, his present and his future does not have to be spent alone as long as he doesn't shut you out.

Second, when one begins to spiral downwards, its hard to break that cycle. One of the reasons its so hard is because you feel like you are being swept along by things you cannot control, and in part that can be correct. The problem is focusing on those things which you have no control over and allowing them to increase the anxiety and worry to the point where you can't think clearly. What is needed often is a simple reminder that we are not in control of all things and all the circumstances in life, but we do have "some" things which we can control. By focusing on these things, rather than worring about things you have no control over is what is needed.

Thirdly, in order to help bring order from the chaos, what one needs is "a plan". When you have a plan, you can focus on that plan and make steps towards accomplishing it. Sometimes part of that plan is to acknowledge that prior plans are no longer viable, but that's ok because new plans can be made, and often they can be even better than the former ones. and gives one the desire to want to try. You can tell him he doesn't have to fix everything all at once, that its ok to take it a peice at a time, rebuild. Start with the obvious things, find work, get some income coming in, build from there. When things reach a point where there is some security in that regards, then start working on the next things, and take it one step at a time.

Lastly, every plan needs a purpose. And in someways this goes to the heart of what every human being needs, a purpose for being and existing. Because life is more than just about food, and water.

He is a man who is need of a purpose for his being, and currently he seems to be overcome with life's circumstances that he cannot see what that purpose is anymore and has lost the motivation to seek it out. The best way to help him is to be with him. Tell him you believe in him. Tell him that you trust he will find a way and that you will be there with him. By doing so you will give him encouragement which will lead eventually to hope.

People today do not seem to understand the power that lies in that simple word 'hope". Every person needs hope. Without it, people become desperate, depressed and give up. A big part of hope is believing in oneself. Another word for that is confidence. I am willing to wager that a lot of the things your Master is facing has to do with a loss of confidence in himself as well.

Building confidence is not something you can just wish into being over night. Nether is the true definition of "hope". hope is not.....I hope it doesn't rain tomorrow kind of hope....the hope and the confidence I am speaking about is the type which is built. This is why I said earlier what is needed is a plan, te begin working on the smaller things, things that he and you "do have" control over. As you together meet each of these smaller challenges, you begin to rebuild confidence in him. It takes time.

So be there for him. Encourage him. Tell him you believe in him. Tell him "its ok to let go" of the past and things which may not come to be or are not in his control. Tell him its time to focus on the present and the things you two can work on together. To build a new future, to make a new plan together. And no matter what comes, you two will face it together and will make it together.

In my opinion that is about the best you can do, and hopefuly in time he will begin to focus on things, and begin to build his confidence back.

Some may laugh or scoff or even disagree with everythnig I have written here, but I know for myself as a man, it has been more times than not, that the women in my life which have renewed my hope and self confidence and by doing so helped me to continue to be the man they knew I could be. You cannot give him his confidence back, that is something he is going to have to earn back for himself, but you can be his woman, and stand by him through thick and thin, and by doing so, give him a sense of purpose if for nothing else, because he loves you.

Good luck to you both.

~RJ

 

[twysted73]

Well captain...

Your ship is in troubled waters. Head for shore and stability. (and take him with you)

So often people reflex-suggest therapy.
But in this situation I feel medication and the opportunity to express his thoughts and be examined by a professional might truly assist him in his efforts to stableize.
His coping mechanisms (distraction through alcohol/gaming/music/spending) are counter-productive and non-conducive to your relationship. And it will only get worse if left as it is.

Because now he knows you're aware of the problem and he'll tack on fear of losing you to the pile of pre-existing stresses and reasons to escape.
Seek a marriage councilor who's D/s friendly (yes, the needle is in that haystack right over there).

You seem to have a solid foundation. Your stability will help him through this. He's having emotional growing pains. He's beginning to adapt to the realities of life and letting go of pubescant imaginings. (this is good but a hard transition his psyche is making).

Very best of luck to you.
Oh, and I'm working on the "basement". Don't lose heart. I need two others. Maybe a third. *shh*

*laughs at how absurd that last statement must appear to anyone else*

 

[JMohegan]

I would suggest that YOU get some therapy just so that you can have an outlet for all of the stress and emotional upheaval that you are no doubt going through.

I agree with this, for the reason you mentioned and also so that Velvet may avoid inadvertently acting as an enabler to his addiction and/or disease.

 

[madetotakeit]

It's very possible for both sides to co-exist. Actually it is a very good thing that even though he is going through a depression that when he thinks of you he sees the positive, the lifetime together.

It's a fine line to walk between supportive and enabler. It's tricky, but that is where you are right now. He's faced his first moment of "I'm an adult." For many it isn't easy to give up that childhood dream. How many are what they wanted to be when they grow up? (I wanted to study sharks just to go in shark cages. Teen onset of a fear of deep water nixed that one.) There is even a decent percentage of people who are not working in their field of college study. (Art degree. Money and job security nixed that one.) The reality of putting away what had been dreamed does change a person. It can feel like a failure.

The drinking is the biggest issue right now. It is intensifying his already confused and depressed state. He needs to realize that it is doing that and that it is interfering with his life. But, he has to be ready and willing to seek help. It sounds like he was very open with you about what he is going through. That is good. He knows he has someone he can trust. Keep talking to him. You know him and should be able to sense when you should and shouldn't approach the subject. Battling anything is easier when you know there is someone beside you. When it comes to talking about his feeling suicidal at times, be honest. Don't hold back thinking you will make things worse. You are not going to give him an idea that he hasn't had already. People who talk about it are wanting help. It is the people who are suicidal who do not talk about it that are of more concern. It sounds like he needs more help than you can or should give. Your part is to help him see that. Cat had a good point in reminding him that going once does not mean he has to follow up. That may make it easier for him to swallow the idea. Some people look at seeking help as a weakness when in fact it is one of the things they can do that shows how strong they really are.

I wish you the best with this hard time. Let him know how you feel about him and that you are there.

Keep us posted.

 

[intothewoods]

Some good advice so far, Velvet. I think he has to be the one to decide he needs help. Do you have something similar to Al-Anon in the UK - a support group for family members of an alcoholic?

 

[VelvetDarkness]

It's very possible for both sides to co-exist. Actually it is a very good thing that even though he is going through a depression that when he thinks of you he sees the positive, the lifetime together.

I guess the people I have known who have been depressed have acted depressed. That's not to say that they don't have good days but their prevailing emotional state is a negative one. L is (or does a convincing impression of) being content most of the time. When he is playing his music, he enjoys it. He'll come and play new things he's working on and when he's with his new band members he's very happy and positive. By the same token, our daily life together would be called very happy by a casual observer. He's affectionate, thoughtful and considerate. He just doesn't give the impression of someone who has descended so far beyond hopeless that he can't find the way back.

I also thought that things like our relationship, his music, new band, gaming online etc were positive outlets. When he opened up to me though, he said he hated his music. He behaves like a normal person 99% of the time and then tells me he hates his life and wants to die. He tells me he loves me and writes a wonderful card on Valentine's after he's announced that I'm stupid for loving him. He talks about the future positively when he also admits freely that he'd rather be dead.

So the things that I thought mitigated the other stuff like money and employment worries also cause him anguish.

I have said the usual things like 'I believe in you.' and he does just genuinely think that I'm stupid and idealistic. His response will be 'well you shouldn't' or that I don't know the true him.

It find all this really difficult to comprehend. Both sides to him are genuine. I know that he loves me. I know that he wants to make positive changes and for his life and his psychological state to improve. He has told me that.

I guess it's a good thing that his positive side hasn't been obliterated completely but I also wonder what percentage of it is a facade that he uses as a coping mechanism.

It's a fine line to walk between supportive and enabler. It's tricky, but that is where you are right now. He's faced his first moment of "I'm an adult." For many it isn't easy to give up that childhood dream. How many are what they wanted to be when they grow up? (I wanted to study sharks just to go in shark cages. Teen onset of a fear of deep water nixed that one.) There is even a decent percentage of people who are not working in their field of college study. (Art degree. Money and job security nixed that one.) The reality of putting away what had been dreamed does change a person. It can feel like a failure.

He definitely counts it as a failure but has added it to a rather long list. I guess I'm used to being someone who copes so I find this all bewildering. I'm also a few years older at 28 so I've kissed goodbye to a few of my childhood dreams and while you can have regrets, they haven't stopped me being optimistic and working towards a better future.

I am also worried about being an enabler. I am trying to talk constructively to him without allowing him to feel that talking to me is enough or that I don't still think he needs to take responsibility for his own wellbeing and try a few things out, whether that be seeing a GP and having medical checks and maybe anti depressants or finding a therapist he likes.

One analogy I presented to him is that I have urticaria and eczma. These are not complex psychological problems admittedly but the constant itching, sores, creams, tablets etc have worn me down at times. I have tried different drugs, different creams, different clothes, detergents, toiletries, homeopathic remedies, you name it. The most effective thing I've found so far, bizzarely, is a vegan, wheat free diet. By the same token, there are lots of things that L could be eliminating as possible causes or things that aren't helping, that he isn't. He could have a serotonin deficiency or some other physiological problem that's making his depression worse for example. My point is that there aren't going to be any simple answers or solutions but he should at least be investigating possible causes, triggers or exacerbators and he's not doing so.

The drinking is the biggest issue right now. It is intensifying his already confused and depressed state. He needs to realize that it is doing that and that it is interfering with his life. But, he has to be ready and willing to seek help. It sounds like he was very open with you about what he is going through. That is good.

I agree that the drinking has exacerbated everything else. He uses it as a temporary coping mechanism but it's more than that. I actually think that the drinking is some kind of twisted form of self harm. That's not to trivialise self harm or to suggest that getting drunk is comparable to cutting holes in yourself but it really is his attitude to alcohol. He's like a guy who sails into a storm and screams 'Come on then!' to God. He wants to be swept away.

He knows he has someone he can trust. Keep talking to him. You know him and should be able to sense when you should and shouldn't approach the subject. Battling anything is easier when you know there is someone beside you. When it comes to talking about his feeling suicidal at times, be honest. Don't hold back thinking you will make things worse. You are not going to give him an idea that he hasn't had already. People who talk about it are wanting help. It is the people who are suicidal who do not talk about it that are of more concern. It sounds like he needs more help than you can or should give. Your part is to help him see that. Cat had a good point in reminding him that going once does not mean he has to follow up. That may make it easier for him to swallow the idea. Some people look at seeking help as a weakness when in fact it is one of the things they can do that shows how strong they really are.

I have said that he doesn't have to go anywhere twice and that it takes time to find a therapist that you connect with. Also, I said the same things about his new job. If he had gone there the first day, come home and said he wasn't going back he wouldn't have lost anything. I think the problem is that when he's feeling ok, he doesn't want to sit down and discuss painful things with a therapist. Once he's suicidal, there's no way of talking to him rationally.

I wish you the best with this hard time. Let him know how you feel about him and that you are there.

Keep us posted.

Thanks hon

I'll reply to other posts when I have some more time but you've all given me a lot to think about. Thank you so much.

 

[madetotakeit]

One thing to keep in mind, take the hurtful thing said with a grain of salt. People who are in his situation tend to lash out at those that love them. They feel miserable and sometimes use making someone else feel pain too as a way to feel better momentarily. A release of sorts. Afterwards, when the reality of what was said sinks in they feel even worse. Just because he said it doesn't mean he meant it. It is part of the depression.

 

[Netzach]

Oh wow.

There's a lot of commonality to all depressed people and I see some of M in this post. A lot. It's not easy to live with someone who's depressed and remain productive and sane yourself. I've been depressed and been on AD's but I do not seem to have the chronic lifelong version of it that M does - mine will show up in a given year and go away for several at a time. I can't remember wanting to kill myself in high school and M tells me it's been his desire since he was about 16 or 17 - he's always had this sense of "I don't NEED to be here, I didn't ASK to be here" which has its own parental backstory, but that's neither here nor there.

The thing about depression is that it fogs the brain and changes how people view the entire world - the truth is that of COURSE he loves his music, of course he's actually enjoying the moments he says he's not enjoying when the big oily demon of depression is on his back, it's just that when one's down that way it's only down, there is no light, there is this strong sense that any time you're happy you're lying to yourself. I have had this dialog in long go-rounds with my husband, many a crappy night. The fact is, that's how he feels when he's having an episode, and a person with this problem loses track of the fact that things change and it IS an episode and there's nothing fake about the enjoyment they've had in the past simply because there's no enjoyment in things at present

M is usually much more adjusted after a night of sleep. Tired brings it on bad.

I would not describe M as alcoholic, because drinking is not his normal coping strategy, but HAS he used it that way at times? Yes. Is he heavier than ever and upset about it? Yes.

But he's in therapy and we go to therapy together. I have done therapy in my early 20's. I can't say enough about how much this has helped things. More than meds, and more than meds alone. It doesn't make the problem go away altogether, but it does help you understand things and put things in perspective. I have to echo everyone else saying if he won't go, you ought to go - when you find a therapist you like working with it really does give you the tools you need to make the right decisions for yourself.


I didn't have trouble "getting him" to go to therapy because he reached a point where he was so miserable he'd try anything. Unfortunately for some people the bottle is preferable to asking another person for help, and vice versa - it's really just one of those things no one can do for someone else. I remember finally getting help myself, and I'm amazed how long it took me and how dramatically fucked up things had to be for me to do it. People, sadly, have to hit their own bottom to an extent.

You can't force him into therapy unless you really believe he's imminently going to harm you or him or someone else. But if you see that, you must, even if he says he hates you won't forgive you, will leave you - all that. I know I have that at the back of my mind at times, and I watch carefully trying to tease apart suicidal *ideation* (something we all do to an extent ) which usually means "I want a sense of escape from this crappy life" and is talk/fantasy/thought versus a suicidal plan of action, which is pretty insidious and most people do not progress to.

Like madetotakeit said, if he's talking about it, it's likely because he wants what death represents: change, escape, solitude, cessation of responsibility. Fortunately, one can get some of those things or get the *sense* of them without jumping off a building, and most people realize this when they're having a lucid moment.

 

[WakoJako]

It seems like you are his rock, and you are what keeps him going. If he is nmot going to do therapy then you are the closest hes got to talking about it. May I suggest that you just sit down with him and talk to him about his problems? Ok youre not a pyschologist but getting it off your chest always helps.

 

[Rosie_Riveter]

....................

 

[YourCaptor]

It sounds like he’s not clinically ill… yet. I could easily be wrong though, I am in no way an expert.

However I think he is having a crisis because to him it feel like he is stepping backwards. He thought he was moving up, through moving in with you, wanting to self actualize. However he did so only to discover he is having trouble with the simple things, such as work, health, etc, you know this better then me.

I would recommend taking a walk with him, if he is moving and breathing fresh air his mind will be able to think a lot more clearly. Don’t tell him any of the stuff you said here, I think that would only make things worse.

Your job is not to diagnose him and tell him how he is, your job is to be his crutch while he is having trouble. Anything he does he has to do it himself, the only thing you can do is support him and give a second point of view.

Try to work in the idea that he is simply having one of those slumps that we all have, try to get him to think in the direction of all this only being a temporary setback. Tell him his current work is only that work, work to get by and use as a tool to climb back out of the pit he fell into. Tell him that even though he has to do work he hates, he can still apply to jobs he would enjoy more. Make sure he knows no job is permanent, and he has the freedom to experiment. Most of all tell him that a career is not something you pick and then do, a career develops as you go, you take a job, learn it, and use it as a step to reach something you would enjoy doing more. He’s not a failure, he’s just not sure which way to go, tell him to experiment, he will figure it out as he does so.

To avoid miscommunication, ask him to tell you in his won words what you just said. Miscommunication is usually the downfall to these things.

That is what I would try, I hope that helps, if it doesn’t, definitely go for a therapist. And even if it does work, a therapist would still be a good choice, just to work things out better.

 

[BiBunny]

Social anxiety. Which he's trying to self-medicate with alcohol. The depression can be the by-product of the alcohol or the by-product of the self-imposed isolation for fear of the outside world.

*Sigh* Been there. Poor guy.

I won't bore everybody by posting about my own problems, but Velvet, if you'd like to PM me, feel free. Best wishes to both of you.

 

[naxalite0906]

I am crap with advice when it comes to stuff like this.... but I do want to wish you all the best.. I feel for both of you as I have been depressed recently and know what it can be like. It is clear that he loves you dearly, and you have already done so much. It is just a case of being supportive and I really do hope you can work through it all and be happy together

 

[VelvetDarkness]

From what you have said I would agree he has a huge depression problem, a drinking problem which is beyond self manageable (I was married to an alcoholic many moons ago), and is also as you say feeling he is at a crossroads where he feels compelled to produce some wonderful life plan. Unfortunately, none of these things are easy to cope with, especially if someone is not open to accessing help from professionals at some level. Would it help to suggest he go for a medical check....have a series of tests done to check his health in general? This may help pinpoint physical problems, and may help him come to terms with accessing help for the issues he is struggling with. His depression alone is going to make seeing the future and positive steps difficult, if not impossible.

I agree that his drinking is now a problem but I'm also hoping that it's not yet such an established pattern that he can't fix it. Last night for example we had a couple of glasses of wine with dinner and then I got up and put the bottle away. I thought he'd get pissed off and feel that I was trying to make a point but he just let it go. I think that he does want to change it's just that he's so demoralized right now. I also think that he's not yet in a place where any changes will be enduring and I don't think he wants to set himself up for another failure (or perceived failure.)

I'm still trying to coax him the the GP but he'll think I've gone into nurse hyperdrive. He has hardly ever needed to go to a doctor and generally has a head-in-sand approach to his health. It'll take a while to talk him round.

It is good he has been open with you, but you also cannot assume responsibility for his decisions and outcomes. Be supportive by all means, but don't fall into the trap of feeling it is your responsibility as there is nothing you can do if he roadblocks you, nor can you be responsible for his behaviour. Let him know how you are feeling (be brutally honest if need be), let him know you intend to remain supportive, but also let him know you cannot assume responsibility and how much it would mean to you, your relationship, and future together if he would even consider going to talk to someone. Emphasis that talking does not mean he has to follow up, it is just a step toward trying to be proactive about his own future and the decisions will remain all his.

I know that I'm not responsible for his problems or behaviour but I'm also very aware that my natural slave mindset could make me an 'enabler' and I really don't want to do that. I had a really lovely PM from a dear friend here, part of which said the following.

In his worst moments, L wants you to support his negative perspective. He also wants you to help him escape the internal darkness.

Only he can solve the issues of his drinking and his depression, by changing his habitual behavior and thought patterns (and perhaps chemistry if he needs meds).

As his slave, you need to practice vigilance so that your center is not lost as his pendulum swings from side to side in the process.

A slave can be a great help to her master, but not necessarily by giving him everything he desires.

But you, as his slave, must hold the center of the pendulum steady.

I think that this is really good advice and kind of sums up what I'm trying to achieve through my role as his possession.

As to career and success. This is something I always feel strongly about as we are programmed to measure success and achievement in dollar terms. Get a high paid job, climb the corporate (or any other) ladder, live to work instead of work to live, and you are considered successful and worthwhile. I OTOH don't necessarily agree that is the way to measure a persons success or worth. I am more interested in whether that person is happy with themselves, whether they are a good person in terms of how they treat the world/others, are they comfortable in their won skin, less so about the size of their bank account or pay cheque. Perhaps talking to him about success not being measured in terms of money might help him to relax as it seems from what you say he was happy with not working overmuch and just managing to keep going until recently. Perhaps between you, you could come up with a plan which would work better for him. Perhaps he would consider seeing a lifestyle coach to discuss ideas and where he wants his life to go and how to achieve that.

L doesn't measure his success or that of others in fiscal terms but he's had a lot of money worries lately that have temporarily shifted his perspective somewhat. It's more that he feels he hasn't really done anything like go backpacking for a year or teach English in Tokyo or whatever. He realises that employment is a means to an end but at the same time he feels trapped by having to put his financial needs before his spiritual ones and take a job he doesn't really like or have much interest in, just to pay the bills. It probably sounds juvenile and that he wants to be irresponsible but that's not the case.

Sorry I don't have any magical ideas of how to fix things, but I do think you are dealing with a lot of complex issues, or more to the point, he is, and somehow he needs to be able to compartmentalise the issues and deal with them one at a time until it all comes together. This is easier said than done, especially if he won't seek help. He is the only one who can take that step and all I can offer is for you to be there for him, but maintain a healthy level of detachment which allows you to continue being supportive without being dragged down yourself. I know it isn't easy and is painful to watch someone you love go through, but just being there can sometimes be worth more than all the pills and money in the world.

Catalina

Thanks. I know that there's not really that much I can do. I'm not stupid enough to try shoving him into things he's not ready for yet. I'm sure we'll work through all this somehow.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Hmm there is a lot there going on, and no chance for really offering substantial help except perhaps to give you a few things to think on which come to mind as I read your post. I hope what I offer may help even if in a small way.

When I was younger I attended a class where I learned about Maslow's heigharchy of needs. Here is a link if you have never seen it or heard of it, even though its Wikipeadia, i read it and it is a pretty acurate representation of his theory. Anyways at the time I didn't like his theroy as it had huge holes in it which I felt could not be explained, and in some ways still do, but over the years I have learned that his theory does hold a lot of truth to it. A crude summary of his theory is basicly this: Human motivation is often dictated and controlled by levels of human need starting with "Physiological needs" such as food, water, air, sex, warmth. Then comes "Safety needs" such as personal security, financial security, and health and wel-being. etc. When these things are met, everything tends to be normal and allows for higher needs to be met or sought after unhindered, but when these things are not met, aniety and anxiousness can set in. (I.e. read: panic attacks)

As I read your post, you mention a lot of things which are part of these two areas. A lack of or low on money as an example which can lead one to worry about the future, food, a place to live etc... And then you add on top if it the realization that perhaps he might not ever achieve the things he truly dreamed of for his life.

Another way to say this is that sometimes life's circumstances become so great, a person loses the ability to cope with it all and begin to spiral downwards.

I took a psychology A Level and we covered Maslow briefly. I did refresh my memory though, thanks for the link.

I think that this is definitely a factor as his financial needs (i.e. access to shelter, food etc) are currently taking precedence over his spiritual ones when it's a really bad time for them to do so.

How can you help?

Well one thing you can do is encourage him by letting him know that despite the circumstances of life, you are in his corner and always will be. Whatever comes, you will face it together as a team. Perhaps in his old life he was alone and learned to be a loner, but that was his past, his present and his future does not have to be spent alone as long as he doesn't shut you out.

That's also very true and something he does realise. He's said repeatedly how much he values my faith in him and my desire to stick around even though things are shitty right now. He is trying to open up and talk to me more but he still finds it very hard. He's always been a bottler and that's still the case really as all of this has been brewing for a while. The secret drinking etc is also a symptom of someone who doesn't want to acknowledge his problems, much less discuss them at length. I think that he is making efforts to be more open and honest but it does lead to him saying hurtful things at times.

Second, when one begins to spiral downwards, its hard to break that cycle. One of the reasons its so hard is because you feel like you are being swept along by things you cannot control, and in part that can be correct. The problem is focusing on those things which you have no control over and allowing them to increase the anxiety and worry to the point where you can't think clearly. What is needed often is a simple reminder that we are not in control of all things and all the circumstances in life, but we do have "some" things which we can control. By focusing on these things, rather than worring about things you have no control over is what is needed.

This is one of the things I'm trying to help with. When L got his new job he started freaking out a little bit. For his interview we bought him a shirt tie, trousers and smart shoes. We didn't spend much but it added to his worries because he's short of cash. After he got the job we went out on 3 separate occasions and got just a couple of things like extra shirts and another pair of trousers, a lunchbox, little things. He seemed to handle that better than buying everything at once so I'm applying that approach to other things.

He's met a couple of people he likes at work already and has been invited to a party on Saturday. I'm slightly concerned about his drinking but he has said that he's only going to have a couple.

Thirdly, in order to help bring order from the chaos, what one needs is "a plan". When you have a plan, you can focus on that plan and make steps towards accomplishing it. Sometimes part of that plan is to acknowledge that prior plans are no longer viable, but that's ok because new plans can be made, and often they can be even better than the former ones. and gives one the desire to want to try. You can tell him he doesn't have to fix everything all at once, that its ok to take it a peice at a time, rebuild. Start with the obvious things, find work, get some income coming in, build from there. When things reach a point where there is some security in that regards, then start working on the next things, and take it one step at a time.

That's pretty much how we're handling things. One good thing L has already found about the new job is that he can relax once he's left the office. When he was self employed and kept his own hours he'd feel guilty about his free time and in the back of his mind there was always this little voice saying 'you're lazy, you should be working, you could have earned £15 in the last hour.' Now though, his free time is his free time and he doesn't have that guilt attached to it. I think that this could work out to be very positive, once he's got over the novelty of it all.

Lastly, every plan needs a purpose. And in someways this goes to the heart of what every human being needs, a purpose for being and existing. Because life is more than just about food, and water.

He is a man who is need of a purpose for his being, and currently he seems to be overcome with life's circumstances that he cannot see what that purpose is anymore and has lost the motivation to seek it out. The best way to help him is to be with him. Tell him you believe in him. Tell him that you trust he will find a way and that you will be there with him. By doing so you will give him encouragement which will lead eventually to hope.

People today do not seem to understand the power that lies in that simple word 'hope". Every person needs hope. Without it, people become desperate, depressed and give up. A big part of hope is believing in oneself. Another word for that is confidence. I am willing to wager that a lot of the things your Master is facing has to do with a loss of confidence in himself as well.

Building confidence is not something you can just wish into being over night. Nether is the true definition of "hope". hope is not.....I hope it doesn't rain tomorrow kind of hope....the hope and the confidence I am speaking about is the type which is built. This is why I said earlier what is needed is a plan, te begin working on the smaller things, things that he and you "do have" control over. As you together meet each of these smaller challenges, you begin to rebuild confidence in him. It takes time.

He has lost his hope and his optimism. It's very difficult to plan anything with someone who can't cope with the notion of tomorrow but I think we'll get there. He does need a purpose and I have no idea what that purpose will turn out to be. L is also going to continue looking for a career that he'd like to follow long term. He doesn't know what it is yet but I think the fact that he's looking will give him the feeling that he hasn't 'given up' or 'settled.'

So be there for him. Encourage him. Tell him you believe in him. Tell him "its ok to let go" of the past and things which may not come to be or are not in his control. Tell him its time to focus on the present and the things you two can work on together. To build a new future, to make a new plan together. And no matter what comes, you two will face it together and will make it together.

In my opinion that is about the best you can do, and hopefuly in time he will begin to focus on things, and begin to build his confidence back.

Some may laugh or scoff or even disagree with everythnig I have written here, but I know for myself as a man, it has been more times than not, that the women in my life which have renewed my hope and self confidence and by doing so helped me to continue to be the man they knew I could be. You cannot give him his confidence back, that is something he is going to have to earn back for himself, but you can be his woman, and stand by him through thick and thin, and by doing so, give him a sense of purpose if for nothing else, because he loves you.

Good luck to you both.

~RJ

Thankyou for your kind thoughts and for your insight.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

One thing to keep in mind, take the hurtful thing said with a grain of salt. People who are in his situation tend to lash out at those that love them. They feel miserable and sometimes use making someone else feel pain too as a way to feel better momentarily. A release of sorts. Afterwards, when the reality of what was said sinks in they feel even worse. Just because he said it doesn't mean he meant it. It is part of the depression.

I do understand that but I still find it hurtful at the time. I'm trying not to get depressed by his depression but it's not always easy. He is usually very apologetic later on or the following day so I know it's a transient thing. It's hard to separate what his genuine feelings are from his moments of irrationality. I've lost track of what his true thoughts and feelings are at the moment because they're all so variable.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Oh wow.

There's a lot of commonality to all depressed people and I see some of M in this post. A lot. It's not easy to live with someone who's depressed and remain productive and sane yourself. I've been depressed and been on AD's but I do not seem to have the chronic lifelong version of it that M does - mine will show up in a given year and go away for several at a time. I can't remember wanting to kill myself in high school and M tells me it's been his desire since he was about 16 or 17 - he's always had this sense of "I don't NEED to be here, I didn't ASK to be here" which has its own parental backstory, but that's neither here nor there.

This is very much like L. He kind of blames the universe at large for his very existence. It's quite impressive how vehemently he hates the forces of fate and chance that brought him about. One of his other enduring thoughts is 'what would really change if I wasn't here? what kind of hole would I leave in the fabric of reality if I disappeared?' One of the downsides to that is that he is adamant that my life would be far better in the long run if he wasn't in it. I know that's the depression talking but the fact that he considers himself to be stating an incontrovertible truth based on reason is a little disturbing.

The thing about depression is that it fogs the brain and changes how people view the entire world - the truth is that of COURSE he loves his music, of course he's actually enjoying the moments he says he's not enjoying when the big oily demon of depression is on his back, it's just that when one's down that way it's only down, there is no light, there is this strong sense that any time you're happy you're lying to yourself. I have had this dialog in long go-rounds with my husband, many a crappy night. The fact is, that's how he feels when he's having an episode, and a person with this problem loses track of the fact that things change and it IS an episode and there's nothing fake about the enjoyment they've had in the past simply because there's no enjoyment in things at present

M is usually much more adjusted after a night of sleep. Tired brings it on bad.

This is something that I've seen a lot of in L. Tiredness is also a significant factor as he's recently had to adapt to being an early riser and hasn't yet adjusted to the point where he can go to bed earlier and actually sleep. He has bouts of insomnia on occasion, usually when he's really anxious. I do find it all confusing in a kind of Jekyll and Hyde fashion. His whole perspective on everything depends on which one of them has the upper hand.

I would not describe M as alcoholic, because drinking is not his normal coping strategy, but HAS he used it that way at times? Yes. Is he heavier than ever and upset about it? Yes.

Again, bingo. L has a kind of kamikazi approach to alcohol. He's a long way from having a physical dependency, he's just seeking temporary oblivion. It's kind of like BiBunny said about it being a twisted form of self medication.

But he's in therapy and we go to therapy together. I have done therapy in my early 20's. I can't say enough about how much this has helped things. More than meds, and more than meds alone. It doesn't make the problem go away altogether, but it does help you understand things and put things in perspective. I have to echo everyone else saying if he won't go, you ought to go - when you find a therapist you like working with it really does give you the tools you need to make the right decisions for yourself.


I didn't have trouble "getting him" to go to therapy because he reached a point where he was so miserable he'd try anything. Unfortunately for some people the bottle is preferable to asking another person for help, and vice versa - it's really just one of those things no one can do for someone else. I remember finally getting help myself, and I'm amazed how long it took me and how dramatically fucked up things had to be for me to do it. People, sadly, have to hit their own bottom to an extent.

You can't force him into therapy unless you really believe he's imminently going to harm you or him or someone else. But if you see that, you must, even if he says he hates you won't forgive you, will leave you - all that. I know I have that at the back of my mind at times, and I watch carefully trying to tease apart suicidal *ideation* (something we all do to an extent ) which usually means "I want a sense of escape from this crappy life" and is talk/fantasy/thought versus a suicidal plan of action, which is pretty insidious and most people do not progress to.

Like madetotakeit said, if he's talking about it, it's likely because he wants what death represents: change, escape, solitude, cessation of responsibility. Fortunately, one can get some of those things or get the *sense* of them without jumping off a building, and most people realize this when they're having a lucid moment.

I really hadn't considered his suicidal thoughts this way. The bolded sections have given me a whole new perspective on what I saw as a wholly negative and debilitating mode of thought. I know that he does want to change, it's just that most of the time he doesn't believe himself capable. His self esteem and hope are too low right now. I will research more on this and try to see the desire for change in his darkest moments.

Therapy remains a goal, it's not something he's open to at the moment though.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I would suggest trying to access more information on alcoholism, as contrary to the popular belief that someone is only an alcoholic if they are drinking regularly, drink to a point where it is clear they are drunk and out of control, the opposite is more to the point. My ex was medically diagnosed as alcoholic (his father was also alcoholic, but in a different way) and he could go for weeks without drinking, he could also drink and not show signs of having done so to others (I came to recognise the signs even though they were very carefully and cleverly disguised and controlled), and most of his drinking was done in secret (similar to what you have discovered L has been doing while you are not around) whereby toward the end he would not drink in front of anyone but did so in the car, had it stashed in his workbench at home piled behind loads of tools etc., had it hidden in the garbage bins, buried in the ground etc. After we broke up, I was still finding his secret stashes months later.

It is not what you see and know about which you need to be aware of, it is what you don't see and know and never imagine as happening that is the problem. It sounds as if you have just begun to discover that through your unexpected arrivals home, similar to how I first realised there was a serious problem with my ex when I would arrive home unexpectedly from work. Sad thing is to my knowledge he is still drinking and last I heard had diabetes, wrecked kidneys and liver, was spenind more and more time in hospital, and looked 30 years older than he is. He always vowed after growing up with an alcoholic father he would not end up the same and sadly he has ended even worse than his father did.

Catalina

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I would suggest trying to access more information on alcoholism, as contrary to the popular belief that someone is only an alcoholic if they are drinking regularly, drink to a point where it is clear they are drunk and out of control, the opposite is more to the point. My ex was medically diagnosed as alcoholic (his father was also alcoholic, but in a different way) and he could go for weeks without drinking, he could also drink and not show signs of having done so to others (I came to recognise the signs even though they were very carefully and cleverly disguised and controlled), and most of his drinking was done in secret (similar to what you have discovered L has been doing while you are not around) whereby toward the end he would not drink in front of anyone but did so in the car, had it stashed in his workbench at home piled behind loads of tools etc., had it hidden in the garbage bins, buried in the ground etc. After we broke up, I was still finding his secret stashes months later.

L has always been a drinker and his parents both drink quite heavily. I also enjoy a drink and wind down regularly with a couple of glasses of wine. In the UK there is a terrible binge drinking culture among young people and it's almost seen as the norm now to get paralytic every weekend. He knows he's drinking too much and he's done it when I'm not around because he knows I'd be worried and upset.

It is not what you see and know about which you need to be aware of, it is what you don't see and know and never imagine as happening that is the problem. It sounds as if you have just begun to discover that through your unexpected arrivals home, similar to how I first realised there was a serious problem with my ex when I would arrive home unexpectedly from work. Sad thing is to my knowledge he is still drinking and last I heard had diabetes, wrecked kidneys and liver, was spenind more and more time in hospital, and looked 30 years older than he is. He always vowed after growing up with an alcoholic father he would not end up the same and sadly he has ended even worse than his father did.

Catalina

He hasn't got stashes everywhere and he can go without it if he chooses to. He's not choosing to at the moment. It's very much a psychological thing rather than a physical dependency. Diagnosing alcoholism is always tricky but I'm not prepared to stick that label on him yet. Obviously I'll be keeping a closer eye on his drinking but to be honest, he really hasn't got the cash to be a fully fledged wino right now.

 

[catalina_francisco]

He hasn't got stashes everywhere and he can go without it if he chooses to. He's not choosing to at the moment. It's very much a psychological thing rather than a physical dependency. Diagnosing alcoholism is always tricky but I'm not prepared to stick that label on him yet. Obviously I'll be keeping a closer eye on his drinking but to be honest, he really hasn't got the cash to be a fully fledged wino right now.

I'm sorry if I offended, and I wasn't suggesting he did have stashes everywhere, just that was the end result of my experience, and largely a surprise as I did not come from a family who drank, nor did I drink...and BTW, he wasn't a wino...wouldn't touch wine if you paid him. Please just be careful in assuming L does not have a problem as my ex could also stop for a time. The thing is saying you can stop whenever you want, but choose not to, for me raises more red flags in terms of alcoholism and addiction as it is what you will hear 99% of those addicted to anything say when they are in denial. If they can stop, and they know it is causing problems, why don't they make that choice if there is not an addiction problem? Anyway, I will bow out as I have done my time in such relationships and working with people in similar circumstances, and realise my experience may not be yours, but figure I am more likely to assume the worst from what you wrote than to feel it is all OK and just a manageable storm in a teacup. Hope it all comes right for you soon.

Catalina

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I'm sorry if I offended, and I wasn't suggesting he did have stashes everywhere, just that was the end result of my experience, and ;argely a surprise as I did not come from a family who drank, nor did I drink. Please just be careful in assuming he does not have a problem as my ex could also stop for a time. The thing is saying you can stop whenever you want, but choose not to, for me raises more red flags in terms of alcoholism and addiction as it is what you will hear 99% of those addicted to anything say when they are in denial. If they can stop, and they know it is causeing problems, why don't they make that choice is there is not an addiction problem. Anyway, I will bow out as I have done my time in such relationships and working with people in similar circumstances, and realise my experience may not be yours, but figure I am more likely to assume the worst from what you wrote than to feel it is all OK and just a manageable storm in a teacup. Hope it all comes right for you soon.

Catalina

I wasn't offended, I'm sorry if it read as though I was. My father has been an alcoholic since his teens and he fits the pattern of physical dependency that people most often associate with alcoholism. He cannot go a day without a drink and needs to consume a certain amount of booze before he can function as a human being. It's very sad but after nearly 50 years it's unlikely ever to change. Even a triple heart bypass op didn't give him enough of a kick up the ass to take drastic action.

I hadn't really considered that someone who isn't physically dependent could still be classed as an alcoholic. Obviously it's not something that I want to think about in connection with L but at the moment I think he still has a certain amount of control. He doesn't get drunk during the week and isn't allowing it to interfere with his new job. It's unfortunate that he's been drowning his sorrows at the weekend but I think that my working away is leaving him with too much time to spend alone in his own head.

I am actually looking into re-organising my work schedule so that I can spend weekends at home with L but it's unlikely to be possible for the next month at least.

 

[catalina_francisco]

My father has been an alcoholic since his teens and he fits the pattern of physical dependency that people most often associate with alcoholism. He cannot go a day without a drink and needs to consume a certain amount of booze before he can function as a human being.

I think this is why I was caught so offguard in my marriage. I had seen his father and he was as you describe your own father, plus he didn't have a problem drinking in front of family and friends...my ex OTOH didn't initially have to drink every day, and even toward the end was able to control it to some extent in terms of work etc. When I had my fears verified was when he had to undergo some medical tests and the doctors said the only way he could have achieved some of the readings they found was through being alcoholic, or drinking a litre of bleach at which point he would have been dead so highly unlikely. He admitted he had a problem for a short time after that, but then his mother came to visit and told him not to believe such nonsense about himself which was all he needed to quit going to AA meetings and blame everyone and everything in the world for his troubles, never himself. Perhaps changing your schedule will work, but still as you know, you cannot change things for him if he doesn't see a need to himself. His depression is going to be a major hurdle in achieving that outcome.

Catalina