Trouble in Paradise

[SweetGigi]

Jim and I have known each other for a very long time. We have a great relationship over all. It really has been a true turning point in my personality and it has helped me break down barriers which have kept me from understanding myself. We aren't with out or general issues; the distance for one, the difficulty of understanding each other, coping with my past issues of security and doubt. Even with these speed bumps, things have been fairly good and progressive.

Jim and I both have past issues which we understand hinder us. However, last night several comments were made by Jim that led me to believe things are not as good as I've thought. While talking about an ex of his, he mentioned that with all he's lived through in the past and the issues brought about by this past relationship, he seriously doubts he has what it takes to love like others love. When I asked him to clarify for me, he simply stated that he's not sure if he can ever love someone again. He conditioned it by stating it has nothing to do with me but that there are times when he is glad his emotions to love are shut off. As some of you can imagine, I was absolutely stunned and rocked to my core.

So now I am emotionally drawn and conflicted. There is a part of me that wants to tuck tail and run as far from this as I can get. I've lived through previous unrequited relationships and I'm not sure I have the strength to endure another potential one. On the other hand, I want to continue on with Jim and prove to him that we can over come our pasts. That together we can create a new, better, stronger and altogether different love eventually down the road. I'm not asking him to love me 'now' this 'very instant'. I'm just want him to acknowledge I'm not her and that I deserve a chance to be loved just as he does.

So I suppose my question is this: Do any of you think it is possible to lose the ability to love or is it just the fear the possibility of feeling 'whatever' way again and would rather sacrifice future happiness for a life that is by choice limited and not as full in an attempt to protect themselves? Have any of you faced a pain like this and chosen this path or have any of you been in my shoes? How have you dealt with it and were you able to over come this pain (or helped your loved one over come it)? What are your suggestions for me?

Thanks in advance you guys.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think it is possible for people to convince themselves of anything, or use it as a convenient excuse to not commit. Just from what you have said, and given you say you have been in more than one relationship where the feelings were not returned, I would think carefully about whether to continue with this one. It is true that most of us repeat patterns in relationships, especially bad ones, thus we keep repeating the same mistakes and wasting time until we recognise and consciously make the decision to change the pattern and try for a happier outcome....albeit an unfamiliar one....often even though it is heartbreaking, the familiar is more tempting, feels safer as it is known, but it doesn't bring happiness or love.

It is not your responsibility to rescue him, nor may he want to be rescued from himself. It could very well be this is his way of avoiding a commitment to you or anyone....he wouldn't be the first. It could well be he has been hurt in the past and is genuinely afraid of going there again. Whatever the truth is, do you really want to put yourself on the line yet again for something which may have the same outcome as previous relationships, all the time passing a little more of your life which could have been spent in a more positive and loving relationship? If he has a real problem, he has to be the one to do something about it and no amount of you investing time and faith in him is going to make that happen unless he wants it to. Take care of you, and if he does decide you are worth his going the extra mile to deal with his own issues etc., then consider whatever he has to offer...until then it seems you will just be wasting time in a relationship which is going nowhere.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2205/2115649588_641a253c70_t.jpg Catalina

 

[intothewoods]

Has he ever been in love?

I was involved for a few years with someone who had had never quite felt love. I mean, actually, he said he loved me, but in retrospect I don't think it was really love, not deep love anyway (I'll just push aside that messy little what is love anyway question). He loved me as much as he could, but our respective loves for each other (gah, that's a mouthful) were mismatched, if that makes sense. And I was always disappointed.

But it's hard to know Jim's true emotions from a post on a message board, you know? I guess what I can offer is that there is a difference between holding back and loving to capacity, that capacity just being less than yours. The only person who can really answer this is Jim.

 

[madetotakeit]

Whether he was using this as an attempt not to commit or sharing a part of him is something that depends on the context of which it was said.You can place that into perspective by looking back at the conversation that brought it up.

Everyone has been through varying degrees of pain from a relationship that didn't last. How we deal with it is up to the individual. Some people deal with it very easily and others carry deep scars. Everyone has a period where they have to retreat into themselves to heal mentally and emotionally. The danger comes when the reaction is to cut off all possibilities of feeling that way again because at the same time you cut yourself off from feeling all of the wonderful things that loving someone can bring.

I agree with Cat in that the person has to recognize that something needs to be fixed in themselves and nobody else can repair it. Here is where my opinion differs however. Once it is recognized and it is being worked on, I feel it takes a second person to help finish the recovery. You can know something in theory, but until you see it firsthand you don't necessarily believe it. People can stop trying to protect themselves (or protect another.) Once they learn to free themselves up enough to start trusting again, see that all relationships do not follow the same path. First the mental part, then baby steps...one day at a time.

Love is not something than can be set as a goal. It simply happens. Little things accumulate over time and one day you realize that it is there. It isn't something that can be forced, but even those who think they lack the capability will find themselves wondering how they ended up feeling that way about someone. It is one of the basic human emotions. Personally I don't think anyone is capable of preventing themselves from feeling it, but maybe that is just the romantic in me.

I've dealt with the emotionally unavailable in the past. Sometimes it is overcome and sometimes it isn't. One relationship ended up lasting the majority of my adult years and even though in the end it didn't last, we had some wonderful time that I wouldn't trade for the world. For me, it's all about what you see in that person. Are they worth the effort and the chance of heartbreak for the chance at something that can be fulfilling? I let my practical side look at the pros and cons, but I let my emotional side make the decision.

It all comes down to if you feel it is worth it in the end. If you think it is, then be there for him. Show him that it is okay to trust, accept what he has to give and see if it eventually evolves into him allowing himself to feel more. You can't manufacture situations or emotions he is not comfortable with, but if he is worth it then there stands a good chance that he will turn around one day and realize that you mean more to him than he thought possible. You have a history with him and you know more about him than we do. Remember that he has made concessions for you that he has not for others. Also, he did not say he is incapable of loving, just he wasn't sure he could love like others do. At any rate, I think he was sharing a part of himself with you. You have a lot of soul searching to do and in the end only you know which direction is right for you. Those insecurities can run rampant when we let them. Just learn how to understand one another and keep strong communication. Remember, you are stronger than you know.

 

[LittleJade]

I agree with Catalina- it's possible for people to convince themselves of anything.

I do it all the time.

I have loved men and women who are unable to love me back. Hell, I love one right now. It makes me run, in normal circumstances... mostly because I love very deeply, very quickly. And once I love, I love forever... exes of mine who have harmed me, still have a small part of my heart, even though I will never speak with them again. My heart doesn't ache for them, I just know that they have a small piece of it.

Possibility is endless. He may fall in love with you.

However, he's in a place right now, where he's built a wall between you. He wants the wall there. Only HE can remove it.

 

[chauderlos]

I don't know if this'll be really useful, but anyway...
Loving someone is difficult. I can understand those who can feel love at first sight, but of others (meaning, for me), it's difficult, really. Because of past realationships (and not only "love affairs"), because of inner fears, loving someone can be felt as potentially dangerous and harming.
I don't know Jim, I barely know you, but I can understand him from what you wrote. I've been there. I was so deeply convinced that all relationships ended badly, that nothing but pain and solitude was to expect at the end that I didn't want to start a serious one.
It's up to him to change this. All you can do is offer him understanding, care, and support. But it takes long.

I might be completely wrong here.

Hold tight, girl

 

[doveofserenity]

Gigi,

It is hard to explain a man's feelings from a woman's point of view, but i just went thru this with my ex-Sir (if that is such a term).

He had been thru hell with His ex wife, and His emotions and feelings were in what i call a "protected emotional cell". He told me He had feelings for me, but He couldn't run with those feelings; as the pain from His ex was still so intense.

After many times together, i had finally told Him "i love You". All He did was say "Its too soon for the 'L' word, I care for you deeply but do not know if I can ever 'L' you, or anyone; ever again."

That shocked me, because i felt that He was showing the 'L' in everything He did to and with me.

It hurt so bad, i stepped back from the relationship; leaving a door open for Him to call if He felt that the relationship could eventually go into the 'L' stage.

Then i found out that instead of wanting a loving, caring, sensual long term relationship; He had more or less given up on what we had that was beautiful and went off to be with a tramp.

She is known in this area as just that; a tramp, a user, a player. Not caring about anyone else's feelings but hers.

i dont know if He did that so He wouldnt have to deal with His feelings or if those feelings just scared Him that much. All He said when i asked Him about it later was, "Ce La Vie".

To me, that meant He didn't wish to deal with His true feelings.

So to you i say, give it time; continue to nurture your relationship. Let Him know you are there, but that eventually due to your own feelings of love for Him; you need to know from Him if He can ever love again.

Explain to Him, that you love Him; but that if that love can NEVER be returned; you need to know so that you can go on with your life.

It hurts to make that decision, but for your peace of mind; you may have to.

My thoughts and prayers are with you, hon. Hope all works out for the best.

 

[FurryFury]

Dear Sweet Gigi,

I can only give you my experience as they relate to the questions you presented in your OP. My ex told me he could never be a good husband, or love and so on. I brushed that aside because I was convinced I was in love, that we were in love and that love could conquer all.

I felt he was short changing himself or lying to himself and with enough love he would realize that he could in fact love again and be a "good husband." (I honestly never understood his definition of good husband.) When I love, I love completely. You can't make me leave. It just doesn't happen.

I should have listened to him and backed away. He was so right. He hurt me and himself in so many ways. Worse than that, we spent ten years together in relative misery and created a child in that. Of course I convinced myself we were happy most of the time and in love. *gag*

I gave him everything I could emotionally and financially, but nothing was ever going to be enough. He tried to destroy me in so many ways even though I'd convinced myself he was a sensitive caring person better than me. LOL.

I now kick myself for being so "in love" that I did not listen to him. I did not believe him when he said what a jerk he really was. Some of the time he did say he loved me. This confused me. Is what he says at A time true or is what he says at B time true? Yanno? I have decided in retrospect I should have believed the worse and gotten the hell out. Perhaps if I'd been more emotionally healthy I would have.

Now that being said, some guys might want to be convinced. You might be able to work "the great master work of love" on them. Mostly, I think that stuff is a myth.

My problem is why spend years with them waiting? How many times have I seen a guy say, he can't commit, only to then marry the first girl he sees after he has hurt my gfs? If two are not trying then it's just not right IMO. It's unlikely to miraculously become right either.

Sorry to be so negative. I like to think that I can learn from my mistakes. I like to think sharing them with others can help others so they don't have to make my mistakes.

 

[SweetGigi]

When we last spoke on Wendesday night, we left things at 'talking tomorrow'. Even with yesterday being Valentine's, I've still yet to hear from Jim. Before the breakdown, he elluded to there being something planned for Valentine's, but that obviously didn't happen. I called last night about 10:40, to wish him a happy Valentine's Day but I was sent to voicemail. I had violent nightmares last night of him showing up on my door-step late in the night and blessing me out while throwing the things I've left at his house in my face. I can't help but be scared of never seeing him again. I don't want to lose him. I just don't know what to do.

 

[minx1]

When we last spoke on Wendesday night, we left things at 'talking tomorrow'. Even with yesterday being Valentine's, I've still yet to hear from Jim. Before the breakdown, he elluded to there being something planned for Valentine's, but that obviously didn't happen. I called last night about 10:40, to wish him a happy Valentine's Day but I was sent to voicemail. I had violent nightmares last night of him showing up on my door-step late in the night and blessing me out while throwing the things I've left at his house in my face. I can't help but be scared of never seeing him again. I don't want to lose him. I just don't know what to do.

Oh gigi,

I don't really have any advice I'm afraid. I wish I did *soft smile*
I just really empathise with what you are going through and feeling right now.
I hope he gets in touch very soon hon

 

[catalina_francisco]

When we last spoke on Wendesday night, we left things at 'talking tomorrow'. Even with yesterday being Valentine's, I've still yet to hear from Jim. Before the breakdown, he elluded to there being something planned for Valentine's, but that obviously didn't happen. I called last night about 10:40, to wish him a happy Valentine's Day but I was sent to voicemail. I had violent nightmares last night of him showing up on my door-step late in the night and blessing me out while throwing the things I've left at his house in my face. I can't help but be scared of never seeing him again. I don't want to lose him. I just don't know what to do.

I think this is going to be one of those times where you have to listen to your head and not your heart Gigi, if only for the sake of not getting stuck in another relationship which is not giving you what you want, need and deserve. I know how much it hurts, how easy it is to make excuses for him, rationalise everything, just so you can sort of justify to yourself it is worth your time and heartache to stay, but really if he can't even keep the most basic promise (or word) to talk to you tomorrow (let's forget it was VD as well), how much commitment do you think you are going to get from him? Hard as it is to believe right now, he is not the only fish in the sea...you are worthy of more respect and caring, but only you can make sure that is what you get in the long term.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/2267050834_120f6743a3_t.jpg Catalina

 

[SweetGigi]

i want to take the time to thank you all for your words, thoughts and suggestions.

Jim and I are discussing things currently and we are trying to figure out what we each want and if we are able to offer it, respectfully. I know he cares deeply for me, that was proven today when he found out about the events of this weekend. I've never heard such compassion or concern from him- I could truly feel his worry and guilt. Things aren't perfect- but what ever really is? I just want to figure out if we are compatible and continue to try. I don't want to just give up- otherwise I will spend the rest of my life wondering 'what if'. Thanks again for all your words and thoughts. I am so glad I have you all to come to when I need you most.

 

[intothewoods]

We've all had our relationship struggles, Gigi, and know how hard it can be.

Take your time, and focus on this:

Jim and I are discussing things currently and we are trying to figure out what we each want and if we are able to offer it, respectfully.

and I think you'll be just fine. Best wishes.

 

[SweetGigi]

Thanks, ITW. I am currently seeking out a counselor (kink friendly) to help me see things clearly and from a different perspective. I've got my fingers crossed.

 

[Betticus]

I can love but not as I could once upon a time. It's like something important inside has been burned away.

 

[SweetGigi]

I can love but not as I could once upon a time. It's like something important inside has been burned away.

but you love your little girl don't you? I can't cut it off in my head that he can (and does, just won't admit it) love me. I know it is gonna take time but, what else do I have to give, right?

Thanks, Betts for quasi-proving my point.

 

[Betticus]

but you love your little girl don't you? I can't cut it off in my head that he can (and does, just won't admit it) love me. I know it is gonna take time but, what else do I have to give, right?

Thanks, Betts for quasi-proving my point.

I do, it's just not that heart wrenching emotional overload that it was in the past when I was younger. On the other hand it's much more fair and fun.

It doesn't hurt that my lil slavie seems to know me better than I do. I can't get away with anything tho, she busts me all the time.

 

[SweetGigi]

It doesn't hurt that my lil slavie seems to know me better than I do. I can't get away with anything tho, she busts me all the time.

I would think this is a good thing, right?

 

[Netzach]

I do, it's just not that heart wrenching emotional overload that it was in the past when I was younger. On the other hand it's much more fair and fun.

I so don't miss that shit, dunno about anyone else. I mean, one does wise up a little.

 

[DVS]

The stresses of life can cause the human mind to think up most anything. And, without help to rationalize things, people can get stuck in that mental rutt. Maybe the help of another's viewpoint about things could open his mind up to possibilities he can't visualise, right now. And, take it slow... Some people just need time...even with the helping hand to guide them.

 

[madetotakeit]

Jim and I are discussing things currently and we are trying to figure out what we each want and if we are able to offer it, respectfully...I don't want to just give up- otherwise I will spend the rest of my life wondering 'what if'.

This is great news. Sometimes it takes trying times to make somebody open their eyes. It sounds like his have been opened and as a result it opened a path for much needed discussion.

I agree with wondering "what if." To me that is infinitely worse than knowing it won't work. I want to know I gave my all. If I end up being hurt or disappointed, that is the chance I am willing to take. If I try to the best of my ability and with the extent of my patience and understanding, then I know without a doubt it was meant to be or it wasn't. What is the option, a life lived in protection? That's not living life to its fullest.

I do, it's just not that heart wrenching emotional overload that it was in the past when I was younger. On the other hand it's much more fair and fun.

Isn't the kind of love you have now better when you think about it? Yes, it's not the heart wrenching of years past, but is that kind of obsessive love all it's cracked up to be? There can still be the same depth of feeling (good feelings anyway) without the confusion and pain of something that takes over your being. That's my opinion anyway.

And I agree with gigi, you did kind of quasi-prove her point.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I can identify with the 'what if's', but more so from a perspective of not actually getting to a point of having anything significant happen to make me think twice more so than diving in and hoping to change someone or something from what they have indicated is real for them. I wasn't always at this point and in past years was a rescuer to some extent, much more than was needed or appreciated...after having it backfire on me (the guy finding with my help he could actually fall in love and/or feel again and then prompltly moving on with someone else who hadn't known his deep, dark secret while I was left high and dry with a quick thank you, nothing more) several times and doing a lot of soul searching I reached a place where I didn't feel the need to put myself through that pain anymore.

I think a lot of the realisation came from sitting down and going through it all in my head openly and honestly and as painful as it was, admitting and recognising I had wasted a large portion of my life placing energy into relationships I knew were not going to work, but feeling I just had to try anyway...the alternative of choosing to then go for relationships with people who weren't looking to feed off me, not needing me to prop them up and get them on their way, and who were actually wanting to be involved in a relationship with someone was much healthier and fun, and look where it got me. It sort of became obvious that I was the one sabotaging my own love life but painting it as some romantic ideal of being able to accept and support someone who was seriously flawed and disengaged. Reality was it wasn't going to work, it wasn't my job to help/make people change, (well professionally it was but I learned to seperate professional and personal really well), and I was able to recognise it as different from a 'what if' situation which had not even had a chance to reach such a point.

Being with F has taught me that love does not have to be about anguish, pain, unrequitted feelings and desires, and feeling hopelessly bound to someone who doesn't return my feelings on the same level. It is the stuff of cheap, trashy romance novels, but it doesn't have to our reality. I hope it works for you Gigi, but if he didn't know neglecting to contact you, especially over Valentines (and told you he would), and after telling you he was incapabe of loving someone again was going to seriously hurt and upset you, there does seem to be a a basic understanding and care of someone else's emotions missing. Remember you have a right to be happy and are responsible for your own happiness.

Catalina

 

[FurryFury]

That's a great post Cat. As usual you put things I wondered how to say better than I would have. I feel like I wasted soooo much time when I should not have. Now I'm saying what if I hadn't been so stupid and wasted all that time? LOL.

 

[Homburg]

For me, the "what if's" work in a different direction.

"What if I let this continue and we wind up hating each other?"
"What if these fights infect and colour even the memories of the good times?"

When I get to that point where I know it won't work, I would rather cut it off right then. Letting it go on and on in thin hope that it will recover is just asking for toxic emotion, and ruining what good you had together. Better to walk away sad, but with joyful memories, then to get to the point where things are said that cannot be unsaid, and you are left wondering why you were with that person in the first place.

With that in mind, remember that I've been with viv for almost 17 years now. My attitude is not contrary to long-term relationships. It's just against the idea of staying with someone when it just ain't gonna work.

6 billion people out there. Around half of them are whatever sex floats your boat (more if you're bi!). That's an awful big pool to draw from, and the interenet allows you the oppurtunity to contact a huge number of those people. Yep, language barriers and all that shit, whatever. Even in your own country there are many millions of people (less in some countries of course).

There's a whole lotta fish in the sea. Don't let one that isn't right for you drag you down.

 

[SweetGigi]

moved to second page.