How to use commas: Help for Authors

[DracheDD]

OK, yes, I'm new to the boards. This is my first post, but I have been lingering around here for a while and have read so many of your stories that I couldn't possibly name them all. Some of you are very talented authors and others show promise, but need a little more polishing.

I've always believed that anyone who could talk; could write. While I still believe this is true for content, it does take a little work to perfect the grammar of writing. It isn’t quite the same as talking. We don’t pronounce all those little punctuation marks when we talk and I’ve noticed that this is a recurring issue for a lot of you.

I don’t mean to belittle anyone here and I’m certainly not complaining or mentioning any names, but I thought perhaps I could assist, in some small way, with this problem. I am not, by any means, the authority on all English rules, but I try to help where I can.

So for your assistance, to help improve your work, and maybe take a little load off of the editors, I’m listing a few of the common rules for comma usage. Despite conventional thought, a comma is not required every time you “pause” in your speech. Again, it’s just one of those differences between speaking and writing. While no one is going to get bent out of shape if you misuse commas on a discussion board, it is a little more annoying when it’s in a prepared story and copy editors, that I’ve talked to, spend a lot of their time fixing these things.

Here are some of the rules I see misused often:

1. Use a comma to separate the elements of a series that has three or more items. (e.g.: I was horrified, dejected, and scared.) The final comma before “and” is called a serial comma. In modern English, more and more people are not using it. It is becoming so widely accepted that you may see it in newspapers or in online news articles. Point is, you can get away without using it, but proper English still uses one. The other part to this is that I’ve seen numerous examples of authors using a comma before the word “and.” While it is correct in a series, it is not required before using this conjunction in every context.
2. Use a comma and a little conjunction to connect independent clauses. Independent clauses have their own subjects and verbs. (e.g.: I was hurt, but I could still move.) Individually these could both be proper sentences on their own and sometimes it is just easier to write it that way if this rule confuses you. It is also worth noting that the comma does not follow the conjunction, but rather the comma precedes it. While there are some exceptions to this rule, it’s rare.
3. Use a comma to set off introductory elements. (e.g.: The last sentence of rule number 2.) Sometimes it is acceptable not to use this comma if the introduction is short and doesn’t cause confusion. When in doubt, use the comma, as it is always correct. This applies when beginning a sentence with “Because”, “Although”, or the like. These are adverbial clauses and should be set off with a comma.
4. Use commas to set off parenthetical elements. (e.g.: “Great Expectations”, by Charles Dickens, is a great book.) If you’re not sure, try taking out the parenthetical element (the part between the commas) and see if the sentence still makes sense. If it does, you have most likely used the commas correctly.
5. Use a comma to separate coordinate adjectives. (e.g.: A tall, sexy, confident woman turns me on.) As a rule of thumb, try putting the word “and” in between the words. If the sentence still makes sense (not counting the run on “rule”) then the comma probably belongs there.

There are other rules as well, but these are the mistakes I see most often. If you want even more information about the proper use of commas do a Google search for “comma usage” and you’ll find many websites to assist you. It may seem like a little thing, but it can make a big difference in your writing and how well it is received by an editor.

 

[SweetErika]

You might consider asking for this to be moved to one of the writing-related forums, such as Story Feedback. I'm guessing it'd go over better there than the Author's Hangout, where most of the regulars seem to be very familiar with how to use commas.

If you want it saved for posterity, perhaps you could post it in the Writers Resources or How To story section on the main site. It needs to be at least 750 words, but that's not hard to achieve with examples and such. Grammar, including all types of punctuation, is covered in those sections, but maybe some would find a quick reference on comma usage helpful.

In all honesty, I've noticed most of the stories those of us who care about grammar enjoy reading are written by people who also care about grammar, or at least trying to improve their writing by educating themselves, editing, etc. The opposite is true as well: less technically proficient writers are more likely to have readers who don't care so much about things like commas, because those of us who do care click the Back button when we realize it's going to be difficult/annoying to read.

The percentage of writers who aren't technically proficient but WANT to improve their writing is fairly small from what I've seen. Many just produce as quickly as possible, paying no mind to editing or improving their writing over time because the feedback they get (remember, it's mostly from readers who don't mind their style) is usually positive and content-based.

I guess that's a roundabout way of saying I'm not sure how much of an impact something like this has on its intended audience. I'd bet that most of the people who will read it will be people who already know how to use commas, as those who don't and aren't seeking to improve their writing much will probably pass it right by.

That doesn't mean it's a wasted effort (lord knows MANY of us who are fairly familiar with comma usage can use a refresher at times) but it's just a curious thought that came up when I read your post.

 

[DracheDD]

Thanks.
Sorry if it's in the wrong place. I just figured it is a "how to" kind of thing and put it here. If it belongs somewhere else, the mods can feel free to move it.

 

[SweetErika]

It's not in the wrong place per se; it's just that it's likely to reach its target audience better in the places I mentioned, IMO. Discussions usually do better than tutorials here, especially when it comes to writing-related topics, from what I've seen.

 

[fgarvb1]

You don't own a PINK gun do you?

Just being cautious.

 

[Weird Harold]

Thanks.
Sorry if it's in the wrong place. I just figured it is a "how to" kind of thing and put it here. If it belongs somewhere else, the mods can feel free to move it.

I agree with SweetErika that another venue would be better and you really should consider posting it as a How To submission on the main site,

It isn't that this forum is the Wrong place for a how to on punctuation, it's just that most people look here for more general interest kinds of how to information and in the specialized forums for specialized how tos.

 

[Pegger_Man]

I think I should take issue with your first rule about the serial comma. I have looked at the rule as given by both Fowler and Gowers and they say that the commas earlier in the list are there because the word "and" is omitted from those places. Since the final "and" in the list is not omitted the comma is not appropriate.

Fowler does go on to indicate that the final comma is required in the following case:-

Tenders were submitted by John Brown, Cammell Laird, Vickers, and Harland and Wolff.

In this case the comma after Vickers is to indicate that Harland and Wolff is one company and not two seperate tendering companies.

 

[DracheDD]

I think I should take issue with your first rule about the serial comma. I have looked at the rule as given by both Fowler and Gowers and they say that the commas earlier in the list are there because the word "and" is omitted from those places. Since the final "and" in the list is not omitted the comma is not appropriate.

Fowler does go on to indicate that the final comma is required in the following case:-

Tenders were submitted by John Brown, Cammell Laird, Vickers, and Harland and Wolff.

In this case the comma after Vickers is to indicate that Harland and Wolff is one company and not two seperate tendering companies.

Yes.
Note that I specifically referenced that issue when I put the rule in there.
English is a living language and, as such, continues to change. The use of a serial comma is just one example of the ever changing rules of English. Currently, either way is considered "correct."
Personally, I stick to the "old school" style.

 

[Chicklet]

I've always believed that anyone who could talk; could write.

I find this error extremely amusing considering the topic of your post

 

[DracheDD]

I find this error extremely amusing considering the topic of your post

Sue me.

 

[Chicklet]

I'd also like to correct you in your assumption that we don't pronounce punctuation. The #1 thing I tell people who want to write and have no idea about punctuation is to read it out loud. We breathe where commas belong, we pause where periods belong. If you take the 20 minutes to sit and read what you've written out loud before you post it, you generally fix 80% of the problems most people would notice.

Reading out loud is also a fantastic way for people who speak English as a second language to correct our crazy language's punctuation. It's very hard for people who don't speak English as their first language to write it, because so many words have multiple meanings, and because our punctuation simply doesn't make a lot of sense. Reading it out loud will add the commas you need, or at least tell you that your sentence NEEDS commas.

If you can't read it without gasping for breath, it's a run-on.

 

[Pegger_Man]

Yes.
Note that I specifically referenced that issue when I put the rule in there.
English is a living language and, as such, continues to change. The use of a serial comma is just one example of the ever changing rules of English. Currently, either way is considered "correct."
Personally, I stick to the "old school" style.

I'm not sure the two schools of thought on this are really just old and new. The rule as I gave it was considered the standard when it appeared in Fowler's "The King's English" in 1906. I suspect that it is a difference between England and the USA due, in no small part, to the influence of Harold Ross, editor of the "New Yorker" and a famous commaphiliac. Ross would undoubtedly have punctuated using the final comma, much to the annoyance of James Thurber who wrote for him. You would probably enjoy reading Thurber's "The Years with Ross" that illuminates their violent differences on the matter of punctuation.

Of course Ross was working in the 1930's and 40's - long after the rule to omit the comma was established in England. Indeed it is unclear if there was ever a time in England when the other form was preferred.

Edited to add that according to Lynne Truss this is indeed a England/USA split. I'm glad that 'our' version is being widely accepted in the USA as we are quite liberal about accepting American usage over this side of the pond and two way traffic in this is only right and proper. After all, it is "English".