Do readers downrate fetishes? (re: V-Day contest)

[JorisKHuysmans]

I had an interesting experience with a story I posted last night, my entry in the Valentine's Day contest, Valentine Wish in the Wyoming Woods.

The interesting experience is... it's gotten the lowest score of any story I've ever written. It currently has a score of 3.35, where most of my stories rank somewhere in the 4's.

Now, it could just be the suckiest story I've ever written. But I suspect something else. After all, I can usually guess the stories that will get low scores-- they're the ones with a BDSM angle (like Tech Support or The Goddess Ramona Pt. 2), or that are just flat out silly and satirical (like Ass Tax or Book Tour Groupies, with its amusing parodies of bad erotic writing).

Which is the point here. Readers seem to like, and vote for, vanilla stories. Realistic tales of normal (but beautiful) people bumping uglies. Write a twisted tale, write something satirical, and you will pay for it in terms of the score you get. Give them something other than the vanilla sex they're expecting, and you'll get a lower score.

Similarly, I deliberately didn't call attention to the BBW nature of Valentine Wish in the Wyoming Woods, which in any case is fairly downplayed compared to some of mine, and I have a feeling people who felt snookered into reading a, gasp!, fat girl story are now punishing me in terms of rating, again, for giving them something other than the vanilla body types they were expecting.

Mind you, I'm not saying this is a crisis that needs attention; I didn't expect to win the V-Day contest or to ever make the top-rated stories list (though I do have three that ranked over 4.7; so BBW lovers, at least, love many of my stories). But it is interesting to me that it seems like a lot of people cannot separate their personal interest in a kink (or lack thereof) from the business of rating a story for its overall quality. Including, it's worth noting, the editors here; I don't believe I've ever seen a little green E awarded to a BBW story.

 

[sr71plt]

I had an interesting experience with a story I posted last night, my entry in the Valentine's Day contest, Valentine Wish in the Wyoming Woods.

The interesting experience is... it's gotten the lowest score of any story I've ever written. It currently has a score of 3.35, where most of my stories rank somewhere in the 4's.

Now, it could just be the suckiest story I've ever written. But I suspect something else. After all, I can usually guess the stories that will get low scores-- they're the ones with a BDSM angle (like Tech Support or The Goddess Ramona Pt. 2), or that are just flat out silly and satirical (like Ass Tax or Book Tour Groupies, with its amusing parodies of bad erotic writing).

Which is the point here. Readers seem to like, and vote for, vanilla stories. Realistic tales of normal (but beautiful) people bumping uglies. Write a twisted tale, write something satirical, and you will pay for it in terms of the score you get. Give them something other than the vanilla sex they're expecting, and you'll get a lower score.

Similarly, I deliberately didn't call attention to the BBW nature of Valentine Wish in the Wyoming Woods, which in any case is fairly downplayed compared to some of mine, and I have a feeling people who felt snookered into reading a, gasp!, fat girl story are now punishing me in terms of rating, again, for giving them something other than the vanilla body types they were expecting.

Mind you, I'm not saying this is a crisis that needs attention; I didn't expect to win the V-Day contest or to ever make the top-rated stories list (though I do have three that ranked over 4.7; so BBW lovers, at least, love many of my stories). But it is interesting to me that it seems like a lot of people cannot separate their personal interest in a kink (or lack thereof) from the business of rating a story for its overall quality. Including, it's worth noting, the editors here; I don't believe I've ever seen a little green E awarded to a BBW story.

Readers down (or up) rate stories for all sorts of reasons, some of which may not even have anything to do with the content, category, or writing quality of the story. In the case of contests, stories are usually zapped for the first couple of days they are on the list, often with multiple votes by the same voter, just as some sort of "competition" thing. Most of these low/multiple votes will be swept away, and you should see your score rise (but your vote totals go down) over time.

That said, the voting mechanism has been changed recently and this seems to have resulted in lower ratings across the board for new stories. I also have a Valentine's contest entry in the zone of yours (and mine has already gone through a sweep or two). And none of my earlier stories (even earlier contest entries) have ever gone that low in scoring or stayed that low. Lower scores overall may be a reality now.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I had an interesting experience with a story I posted last night, my entry in the Valentine's Day contest, Valentine Wish in the Wyoming Woods.

The interesting experience is... it's gotten the lowest score of any story I've ever written. It currently has a score of 3.35, where most of my stories rank somewhere in the 4's.

Now, it could just be the suckiest story I've ever written. But I suspect something else. After all, I can usually guess the stories that will get low scores-- they're the ones with a BDSM angle (like Tech Support or The Goddess Ramona Pt. 2), or that are just flat out silly and satirical (like Ass Tax or Book Tour Groupies, with its amusing parodies of bad erotic writing).

Which is the point here. Readers seem to like, and vote for, vanilla stories. Realistic tales of normal (but beautiful) people bumping uglies. Write a twisted tale, write something satirical, and you will pay for it in terms of the score you get. Give them something other than the vanilla sex they're expecting, and you'll get a lower score.

Similarly, I deliberately didn't call attention to the BBW nature of Valentine Wish in the Wyoming Woods, which in any case is fairly downplayed compared to some of mine, and I have a feeling people who felt snookered into reading a, gasp!, fat girl story are now punishing me in terms of rating, again, for giving them something other than the vanilla body types they were expecting.

Mind you, I'm not saying this is a crisis that needs attention; I didn't expect to win the V-Day contest or to ever make the top-rated stories list (though I do have three that ranked over 4.7; so BBW lovers, at least, love many of my stories). But it is interesting to me that it seems like a lot of people cannot separate their personal interest in a kink (or lack thereof) from the business of rating a story for its overall quality. Including, it's worth noting, the editors here; I don't believe I've ever seen a little green E awarded to a BBW story.

First, I'd like to state that I find the use of the term "Vanilla" distasteful.

Face it, not everyone is going to share your particular kink.

To me, the "E" is the most worthless award given here to a story, it's given by the person who runs the site. Just one person, and they aren't an editor. Moderator would be a better term to describe their function.

Now, let's get down to cases here. When I vote for a story, it's based on how I see the quality of the writing. Nothing else.

I read your story, and frankly, I just didn't find it interesting. There was nothing in it that made me feel I was in Wyoming, and I've lived in Wyoming.

I found the characters much as I found the story, flat and lifeless. There just wasn't anything particularily interesting about any of them.

Don't blame the readers for your low score, take a look in the mirror, and then at your story, that's where the fault lies. I've read it, and would be hard pressed to give it much more than a 3.

 

[JorisKHuysmans]

Hmm, not sure why that got so much sand in your Calvin Kleins, not AT ALL sure why "vanilla" pisses you off, insert adjective of your choice for "straightforward realism involving conventionally attractive people performing broadly accepted sex acts," but okay, thanks for reading it anyway.

Try Escape From Thinopolis, Better Than Watching Leno or The Sapphic Pirate Miranda for something a little more distinctive, perhaps.

Face it, not everyone is going to share your particular kink

When I vote for a story, it's based on how I see the quality of the writing. Nothing else.

The first of those suggests that maybe the second isn't as true as you think it is....

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Now, let's get down to cases here. When I vote for a story, it's based on how I see the quality of the writing. Nothing else.

What drksideofthemoon says is true of most of the authors on this side. As a group we are far more interested in your writing skills, story development, characterizations and so on.

But the writers are only a small percentange of members on Lit. No one knows how most readers are going to vote. The catagory makes a lot of difference. For instance, Loving Wives, I believe, is mostly visted by guys who's wives fucked around on them and flame stories just for the revenge. The BDSM catagory I personally stay away from. I have no interest, but I do know the people there are a close knit group who have their own language and customs. And so on.

The best thing you can do is find your niche and write there. It will take time, but you will build a following of readers and your scores (whatever they mean) will improve.

I, of course, never follow my own advice and write in six or seven catagories.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Taking Jenny's argument a tad further, it is not really possible to compare stories in different categories. Novels and novellas gets very low votes (readers?) but a devoted readership. Incest gets a different, but much bigger audience.

There have been quite juvenile debates here recently about what constitutes 'success'. To my mind, the notching of sticks is pretty pathetic on a site where no financial reward is offered.

Drk has summed it up best, I think, by saying you should start off writing the story you want and learn from friendly comments and positive critical feedback as it develops. My only grouse is that we have to have categories at all. I have got two lesbian stories in Word that I won't post here because they rely a bit of suspense to lead to the denouement. How can I develop intrique if the category flags, 'These women are going to go to bed together'?

Cancel voting, favorites and all the tarnished baubles. Let's just have comments and feedback.

 

[TxRad]

Taking Jenny's argument a tad further, it is not really possible to compare stories in different categories. Novels and novellas gets very low votes (readers?) but a devoted readership. Incest gets a different, but much bigger audience.

There have been quite juvenile debates here recently about what constitutes 'success'. To my mind, the notching of sticks is pretty pathetic on a site where no financial reward is offered.

Drk has summed it up best, I think, by saying you should start off writing the story you want and learn from friendly comments and positive critical feedback as it develops. My only grouse is that we have to have categories at all. I have got two lesbian stories in Word that I won't post here because they rely a bit of suspense to lead to the denouement. How can I develop intrique if the category flags, 'These women are going to go to bed together'?

Cancel voting, favorites and all the tarnished baubles. Let's just have comments and feedback.

If this was a writers site I'd agree with you butt.... There always is one.

This is a readers first, writers maybe site. We as writers are a means to and end. It's good for us and good for the readers but we still come second. The tarnished baubles are not for us, they are for the readers. We just have to do with what we've got. It might not be to our liking butt.... here's another one.

The site is free and very large. It gives us a wide ranging audience. That audience is the reader and they have their likes and dislikes. Finding what they want or their kink as it maybe easily is top on their list. Rating stories is another and if it was used properly it would be a great help to us. Large numbers of people always contain a sure percentage of asshole. Another butt in a way.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Cancel voting, favorites and all the tarnished baubles. Let's just have comments and feedback.

I agree, I've disabled the voting on my new nom-de-plume.

 

[Otto26]

There is no rhyme or reason to the voting and feedback. My latest story got panned by the first commenter (who wished he could give me less than a zero) and praised by the others. Fetish material? My non-consent material does better than my consensual stuff. My most read story? One I tossed off in twenty minutes as a humorous response to a comment made in a thread.

There's no predicting anything except: someone will dislike your work.

 

[sr71plt]

There's no predicting anything except: someone will dislike your work.

I think you can equally predict that someone will like your work--which is all the reason you need to post it here.

 

[LadyIlsa]

Newbie Here...

Hi! Before ever writing my first anything (even college term papers) I was a reader. I read anything and everything. I read, on average, 3-4 books per week in any and all genres. Sure, I have favorites (anything by Stephen King or Anne Rice will be devoured) and I have some that I'll read for information only. Fiction, non-fiction, Sci-fi, Romance, Mysteries, Biographies, Histories.....just doesn't matter.

But that said, I know what I like. Some styles of writing are superior to others, some leave me shaking my head. Some just make my brain hurt.

Sometimes, it's the subject matter, but usually it's how it's presented. Try rereading your story with a more critical eye. Maybe it needs 'fleshing out', or character development.

I'll go read it myself. And I'll leave a comment.

 

[LadyIlsa]

As Promised...

I read it and sent a private comment.

 

[JorisKHuysmans]

Thanks for the interesting responses. I want to make it clear, if it isn't, that I'm not hung up on the idea of getting better scores, certainly not to the extent of changing what I want to write about. I just find the feedback mechanism interesting because it's there and you can suss out a few things about how your work is received from it; I've done all right overall (moreso when people know they're getting a BBW story, which was partly my point). I accept that I'm just going to get a LOT less readership and feedback than with a more conventionally appealing story, but on the other hand, every two or three stories I get a really moving email thanking me for making BBWs sound hot and sexy, and that is its own reward.

The point about the categories is a good one too; I made the mistake of posting one of my best stories in the Sci-Fi section where it languishes with a fraction of the readership of my best-read stories-- 2641 reads, versus anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 for stories in "Erotic Coupling." Sci-Fi stories tend to score really highly, and that's one of my highest-rated ones, but the audience, however enthusiastic, is definitely limited.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Thanks for the interesting responses. I want to make it clear, if it isn't, that I'm not hung up on the idea of getting better scores, certainly not to the extent of changing what I want to write about. I just find the feedback mechanism interesting because it's there and you can suss out a few things about how your work is received from it; I've done all right overall (moreso when people know they're getting a BBW story, which was partly my point). I accept that I'm just going to get a LOT less readership and feedback than with a more conventionally appealing story, but on the other hand, every two or three stories I get a really moving email thanking me for making BBWs sound hot and sexy, and that is its own reward.

The point about the categories is a good one too; I made the mistake of posting one of my best stories in the Sci-Fi section where it languishes with a fraction of the readership of my best-read stories-- 2641 reads, versus anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 for stories in "Erotic Coupling." Sci-Fi stories tend to score really highly, and that's one of my highest-rated ones, but the audience, however enthusiastic, is definitely limited.

If you want to discuss languishing, post something in the non-erotic category. If you can get 1000 reads, you're doing good.

I don't write to get reads, or get votes, or to make certain lists. And that was why I pulled all of material from Lit. I have since begun to resubmit under a new nom de plume, and I have all feedback, and voting turned off.

Don't worry about votes, reads etc. If you are writing what you want to write, then, that's all that is important. Everything else is secondary, and quite minor.