Virgin Here..Breaking my writing cherry

[LadyIlsa]

Hi all!

Well, my first submission is up, 'Night Shift Nurse', and I would really appreciate any and all feedback.

*lights cigarette, forgoes blindfold, waits patiently......

My second submission, 'Monday Again' is awaiting approval. I hope you'll read and let me know what you think. It's quite a bit longer and much more detailed.

Thank You!

OK - Being a real comment 'slut' - I'm adding the third submission here too. It's very short. 'The Company Party'. Hope you like it.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Well, for a first attempt, you've done alright.

1. Don't use numbers where words will work.

Example, There were six beds in the unit. There were 6 beds in the unit.

Which feels smoother to read? The brain has to switch gears to process the numbers.

Numbers are fine for time, and certain types of measurments.

2. The ellipsis is used to show an incomplete thought or statement.

"Honey, where did you put my..." George paused as he looked up in time to see his grandmother running nude through the back yard.

3. Don't use parentheses, It wasn't a full moon (she had checked) and the 'shit magnet' night supervisor wasn't on duty.

It wasn't a full moon, she had checked, and the shit-magnet night supervisor wasn't on duty.

I thought the beginning of the story dragged a bit, there was too much inconsequential detail that didn't add to the story.

But, overall, I thought it was a good start. Welcome to the whacky world of writers!!

 

[LadyIlsa]

Thank You! Those seem like such simple things to know, but obviously I didn't. I will remember.

 

[starrkers]

Note: I haven't read it yet (just here goofing off while I'm supposed to be writing a story that doesn't want to be written) but I just HAD to disagree with drkside on something.

3. Don't use parentheses, It wasn't a full moon (she had checked) and the 'shit magnet' night supervisor wasn't on duty.

It wasn't a full moon, she had checked, and the shit-magnet night supervisor wasn't on duty.

Bull. Parentheses work here fine. They mark an aside and do it well. If you want to dispense with them I would use em dashes rather than commas in this instance.

It wasn't a full moon - she had checked - and the shit-magnet night supervisor...


This outtake is interesting enough that I will definitely read the story - just not today. Must finish writing my chain story chapter before RedHairedandFriendly gets unfriendly

 

[LadyIlsa]

Thank you! Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Note: I haven't read it yet (just here goofing off while I'm supposed to be writing a story that doesn't want to be written) but I just HAD to disagree with drkside on something.



Bull. Parentheses work here fine. They mark an aside and do it well. If you want to dispense with them I would use em dashes rather than commas in this instance.

It wasn't a full moon - she had checked - and the shit-magnet night supervisor...


This outtake is interesting enough that I will definitely read the story - just not today. Must finish writing my chain story chapter before RedHairedandFriendly gets unfriendly

Starrkers, I disagree with you about the use of parentheses, at least in this case. They are to be used when a piece of text doesn't necessarily flow with what is in the sentence, or for de-emphasis.

If the sentence had been,

It wasn't a full moon, (how we dread those nights!) and the shit-magnet supervisor... I would agree with you, that the parentheses were correct. And you can use punctuation within the parentheses, but not they're not required.

I do agree that either commas, or em-dashes could be used, depending on what effect the writer was going for.

 

[cawastedyouth]

No authority here

But I think what drkside, please correct me if I am wrong, was trying to do with his suggestion on the parenthesis was formalize your writing.

Parenthesis is an 'aside' as mentioned by starrkers, but I've also seen it as an 'aside' in private conversation. Imagine that you're talking with two people, but what you will say semi-privately, or through the side of your mouth to one of them so the other will not hear, or be aware of, that is what is inside the parenthesis.

You don't want to see parenthesis in third person point of view because it's not a conversation you're hearing, you're this voyeur getting to experience the events. There might have been much more leverage in your punctuation usage if you were writing the story in first person.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Gotta Agree With DarkSide

Starrkers, I disagree with you about the use of parentheses, at least in this case. They are to be used when a piece of text doesn't necessarily flow with what is in the sentence, or for de-emphasis.

If the sentence had been,

It wasn't a full moon, (how we dread those nights!) and the shit-magnet supervisor... I would agree with you, that the parentheses were correct. And you can use punctuation within the parentheses, but not they're not required.

I do agree that either commas, or em-dashes could be used, depending on what effect the writer was going for.

I've been editing for a while here and I have been suggesting for the removal of parenthesis when encountering them. But I'm no English Lit major; I managed to CLEP 6 hours of English because I used to read so much that I just instinctively know what looks right (never did finish that degree however).

So I stake no claim to being an expert. But in my personal, uneducated opinion parenthesis don't belong in stories.

That's what I think. OK? Ok? Okay?

 

[mjl2010]

That's what I think. OK? Ok? Okay?

Oh sure, bring THAT up again. I've switched to OK finally.

I pretty much agree, in fictional third person pov, parenthesis really don't have much of a place. Since the reader has this "fly on the wall" perspective, saying something as an aside really doesn't seem to have a place. It either belongs or it doesn't.

To go even further out on a limb, I can see where it might fit in first person, if the narrator was directly addressing the reader.

In the case mentioned, is it important that she had checked to see if there was a full moon? Is this a detail we have to know? I'll read the story later and comment, but I wanted to give my two cents worth on the parenthesis.

I'll read your story Lady and comment on that later. (Dontcha love how we love to argue?)

MJL

 

[LadyIlsa]

I DO love the comments and the back and forth. The more opinions the better, as far as I'm concerned! Being an equally opinionated person, this is good for me.

LOL - if I could get past my embarrassment, I'd let my son, who has a degree in English/Creative Writing, edit/proof read my scribbles. Just can't do it though!

But now I do have a question: Those pauses in conversation - you know, allowing for gasping, cries of ecstasy and such - how to impress the reader with them? I use . . . . pauses. Such as:

"Yes . . . that's the . . . .way. . . . . good . . . . oh, yes!" I think it helps the reader to 'take a breath' when the character does.

Opinions?

 

[EttienneB]

Oh, yes, now I remember!

Now I remember what used to drive me bonkers as a journalist: editors! Copy editors, line editors, proofers, first- and second-editors, managing editors, even know-it-all (and they didn't) editors-in-chief! Every one is an editor! But that's why God created style manuals, so that while everyone might not agree on particulars there was consensus long enough to get the damn thing published, otherwise everyone would be arguing over f****** parentheses forever!
I think what this dear author was asking was, "How's the STORY?"

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I DO love the comments and the back and forth. The more opinions the better, as far as I'm concerned! Being an equally opinionated person, this is good for me.

LOL - if I could get past my embarrassment, I'd let my son, who has a degree in English/Creative Writing, edit/proof read my scribbles. Just can't do it though!

But now I do have a question: Those pauses in conversation - you know, allowing for gasping, cries of ecstasy and such - how to impress the reader with them? I use . . . . pauses. Such as:

"Yes . . . that's the . . . .way. . . . . good . . . . oh, yes!" I think it helps the reader to 'take a breath' when the character does.

Opinions?

Your pauses are known as the ellipsis, and it's always 3 "." as in "...".

As I explained above, the ellipsis is to be used only to portray missing dialog or a missing thought.

The 'em dash "—" should be used to show a longer pause than the comma.

"Yes—that's the—way." Her hands pulled his head harder against her willing sex. "Good—oh, God—yes."

You can also break up the dialog and describe the action, and allow your readers to breath.

 

[LadyIlsa]

Now I remember what used to drive me bonkers as a journalist: editors! Copy editors, line editors, proofers, first- and second-editors, managing editors, even know-it-all (and they didn't) editors-in-chief! Every one is an editor! But that's why God created style manuals, so that while everyone might not agree on particulars there was consensus long enough to get the damn thing published, otherwise everyone would be arguing over f****** parentheses forever!
I think what this dear author was asking was, "How's the STORY?"

Oh, my! You're right! I do appreciate the 'editing' help, but really, I am more curious about whether the story is good or not.

Thank you!

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Oh, my! You're right! I do appreciate the 'editing' help, but really, I am more curious about whether the story is good or not.

Thank you!

Yes, your story was decent, especially for a novice. Otherwise, we wouldn't be haggling about the finer points of punctuation.

 

[LadyIlsa]

Yes, your story was decent, especially for a novice. Otherwise, we wouldn't be haggling about the finer points of punctuation.

Thank you!

OK, this is fun. Can't wait to see what people think about the longer story and I've just submitted another short one, "The Company Party". Takes time for approval - and I'm not used to that - I usually just post on my blog and there ya go.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Thank you!

OK, this is fun. Can't wait to see what people think about the longer story and I've just submitted another short one, "The Company Party". Takes time for approval - and I'm not used to that - I usually just post on my blog and there ya go.

Let us know when your next story is up, and we'll definitely see if we can rip to shreds...

Yes, the waiting is the worst thing, after a while you just come to accept it. I hardly notice it anymore. (I don't submit as drksideofthmoon anymore, I use a different pen name for my writing.)

 

[sr71plt]

I DO love the comments and the back and forth. The more opinions the better, as far as I'm concerned! Being an equally opinionated person, this is good for me.

LOL - if I could get past my embarrassment, I'd let my son, who has a degree in English/Creative Writing, edit/proof read my scribbles. Just can't do it though!

But now I do have a question: Those pauses in conversation - you know, allowing for gasping, cries of ecstasy and such - how to impress the reader with them? I use . . . . pauses. Such as:

"Yes . . . that's the . . . .way. . . . . good . . . . oh, yes!" I think it helps the reader to 'take a breath' when the character does.

Opinions?

Contrary to other advice you've received on this, the Chicago Manual of Style (11.45) agrees that the ellipses (which is only three points) is used for the example you give (faltering or interrupted speech).

The suggested em dash, according to the Chicago Manual of Style (6.90), is what is more appropriate for the following example given above:

It wasn't a full moon (she had checked) and the 'shit magnet' night supervisor wasn't on duty.

It wasn't a full moon, she had checked, and the shit-magnet night supervisor wasn't on duty.

Thus, the CMA would render this sentence: It wasn't a full moon—she had checked—and the "shit magnet" night supervisor wasn't on duty.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Note: I haven't read it yet (just here goofing off while I'm supposed to be writing a story that doesn't want to be written) but I just HAD to disagree with drkside on something.



Bull. Parentheses work here fine. They mark an aside and do it well. If you want to dispense with them I would use em dashes rather than commas in this instance.

It wasn't a full moon - she had checked - and the shit-magnet night supervisor...


This outtake is interesting enough that I will definitely read the story - just not today. Must finish writing my chain story chapter before RedHairedandFriendly gets unfriendly

IMHO, I think Starrkers is completely wrong. Parentheses have no place in written fiction - in fact, even in technical writing they need to be treated like unexploded bombs.

Off to read your story, sounds interesting.

 

[LadyIlsa]

IMHO, I think Starrkers is completely wrong. Parentheses have no place in written fiction - in fact, even in technical writing they need to be treated like unexploded bombs.

Off to read your story, sounds interesting.

Again, all suggestions, ideas and comments only help me, so thank you.

I hope you enjoy the story - with or without punctuation! At least I try to get the spelling right. LOL

 

[D_K_Moon]

Contrary to other advice you've received on this, the Chicago Manual of Style (11.45) agrees that the ellipses (which is only three points) is used for the example you give (faltering or interrupted speech).

The suggested em dash, according to the Chicago Manual of Style (6.90), is what is more appropriate for the following example given above:

It wasn't a full moon (she had checked) and the 'shit magnet' night supervisor wasn't on duty.

It wasn't a full moon, she had checked, and the shit-magnet night supervisor wasn't on duty.

Thus, the CMA would render this sentence: It wasn't a full moon—she had checked—and the "shit magnet" night supervisor wasn't on duty.

I agree, and disagree with you. I agree that the ellipsis is proper for interrupted speech, but I think the em dash is more widely used for faltering speech.

"I—I don't remember when...." He looked nervously between the two detectives questioning him. "When I saw her last."

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Whoops, did it again, the above comment is mine. LOL, I don't do well with alts.

 

[sr71plt]

I agree, and disagree with you. I agree that the ellipsis is proper for interrupted speech, but I think the em dash is more widely used for faltering speech.

"I—I don't remember when...." He looked nervously between the two detectives questioning him. "When I saw her last."

Disagreement is fine. Mine wasn't really "my opinion" though. I actually looked the question up and gave citations for mine from the primary publishing authority. (The preferred authority of this Web site, Strunk and White has no guidance on this question). LadyIlsa is free to pick and choose from the opinions given.

 

[sr71plt]

IMHO, I think Starrkers is completely wrong. Parentheses have no place in written fiction - in fact, even in technical writing they need to be treated like unexploded bombs.

Off to read your story, sounds interesting.

I agree that parentheses aren't a good choice for fiction, which is either dialogue or narration, both of which indicate spoken storytelling. OK for nonfiction, though.

 

[sauhund96]

Whoops, did it again, the above comment is mine. LOL, I don't do well with alts.

simply don't care

 

[LadyIlsa]

Whoops, did it again, the above comment is mine. LOL, I don't do well with alts.

That's OK - I've got you figured out now...LOL!