I bit it off, now I have to chew it.

[VelvetDarkness]

Yesterday, for the first time since Master and I went TPE a little over 3 months ago, Master made the first decision that I am unhappy with. Of course, I knew that it would happen.

Master is self employed. He did his tax return and discovered that it is more than he had expected it to be. He has to pay 3 times the tax that he thought he would have to. Master does not have the money to cover this by the end of the month, when it has to be paid or he'll incur a fine.

He has therefore made the executive decision to take the money from my savings account and repay it later, when he can afford to. It will pretty much zero my account until I get it back, which he reckons will be in 2 months time. He has had the pincodes to my accounts since I became his slave. I'm useless at remembering the codes for my cards anyway. I have the cards and he doesn't have duplicates so I have handed over my card in order for him to withdraw the money.

I wouldn't be so bothered, but I'm taking a business trip to New York tomorrow and will now not have much cash with me. I have never been to New York, so I was hoping to be a bit of a tourist but tourist attractions cost money. I have enough to cover expenses such as meals etc and another company is paying for my flight and hotel.

I also don't like not having my savings as an emergency cash buffer. My current account has no spare cash sitting in it and it makes me feel vulnerable, not least because he is broke as well. I have always had at least £250 ($500) in case of dire emergency since I left home 10 years ago.

I must confess I'm selfish enough to be quite disappointed. He has had since April to do this tax return, I have been nagging him (as instructed) daily since Christmas. He chooses to fill in the forms online yesterday and the money is due by the end of this month. I understand that taxes are more important than spending money for a trip. I have no doubt that he will return the money to my account as soon as possible. I just feel as though I'm paying for his mistake and I don't like that feeling.

He has apologised and said that he was stupid to do the return last minute, assuming it would tally up with his own calculations. He has promised to ensure that it doesn't happen again. He now considers that the end of the matter.

I really don't know what my problem is but I've been quite resentful today. I have done my tasks and chores and all the while this has been in the back of my mind, souring everything. I really thought that I would handle stuff like this better than I am. It has really brought home to me how truly vulnerable my slavery has made me.

Has anyone else been through something similar?

 

[intothewoods]

See, this is the kind of thing I could not live with. If he's in charge of finances, then he should be responsible enough to do his taxes ahead of time. Or have you do it. That's not even a bdsm thing, because one partner is often in charge of the finances. But I think the person in charge had best be able to manage doing the taxes on time.

 

[Netzach]

Do you have any outside financial advisory or help?

Ignoring the M/s dynamic for a second and treating it as a couple, because let's face it, that's the legal aspect which really will matter

...realize that money will bring out the worst in relationships and that different attitudes towards it will probably be the biggest ongoing struggle for most people. While he's completely within rights as your owner and this IS exactly the dynamic that you chose

how will you feel if this happens again?

Will that sour you some on your chosen dynamic?

If so, I hope he knows that, and I hope that he doesn't plan for this to become an established pattern.

Ergo, my question about outside financial help. I know *my* limits and, money and book-keeping is not my forte. I know it's also not M's. Any fines incurred by my own mistakes are my OWN problem.

(is that part of your issue, that you feel like you are covering his ass and he gets to be irresponsible? Would you feel better about it if he just took the money said he was taking it because he could, end discussion.)

I'm also self-employed and we're not financial whizzes. Whoever has the money covers the bills, and sometimes that's me.

I have access to H's money, but his small cushion, his kids and his ex, and his basic bills are all things I don't have interest in messing with. He is getting a roomate and one of the main reasons is "so I'll have more money to spoil you with" - I don't doubt his intentions of my profit on his labor, but there's a level of comfort that one needs before they get too nuts with that, realistically, or you'll have to field a lot of instability and resentment. It's different, he's not my primary partner, but I am not someone for whom finances are off-limits.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I know he's within his rights. He does feel very bad about deciding to take it and I know that he doesn't plan for this to happen again. He thought he knew how much he would have to pay and he was very upset when he found out that he was wrong.

Yes, this is the dynamic I chose and I'm not ashamed to say that. I wouldn't have preferred him to take the money just because he wanted to, that would really have soured things. I need to know that his overall intentions for me are good and that he values me over and above what being his property affords him.

I don't need financial help, it's just going to be a lean couple of months.

I did ask him what he would do if I wasn't there with a handy savings account. Master replied that he would just have to pay the fine. I don't know how much the fine would have been or how much time it would buy him.

I do feel that he's let himself off the hook by borrowing from me. I know that everything I own is technically his but as Master is going to pay the money back, borrowing seems the most appropriate term. Generally, our finances remain separate and I have been responsible with mine. We don't have a joint account or anything like that, we just split bills down the middle.

I think he's using his M/s bravado to gloss over a situation that he is deeply unhappy with. I have no doubt that he will pay me back asap and get everything done ahead of time next year.

I feel that I should have more equanimity about this than I'm currently exhibiting. I'm a little upset that our M/s honeymoon period is officially over. It's not that I think I should be crawling on my knees, thanking him for using my savings but I am disheartened by how personally I've taken this decision and wonder how well I'll handle similar ones in the future.

 

[Netzach]

I know he's within his rights. He does feel very bad about deciding to take it and I know that he doesn't plan for this to happen again. He thought he knew how much he would have to pay and he was very upset when he found out that he was wrong.

Yes, this is the dynamic I chose and I'm not ashamed to say that. I wouldn't have preferred him to take the money just because he wanted to, that would really have soured things. I need to know that his overall intentions for me are good and that he values me over and above what being his property affords him.

I don't need financial help, it's just going to be a lean couple of months.

Well YOU may not. But if you are self employed and taxes are like this, I speak from direct experience. Very direct. It helps me to have an accountant to bounce this stuff off of before I even get into it with M, someone who knows the tax code and system and how the fine structures work and what I can expect realistically (it's harder to trigger an audit than most people realise, breathe deep, someone to say all that stuff to me and I know it's not because they're my parther, they really know it)

If I were him and if I were you (clearly I'm not, but...) I would feel like getting outside help, even another friend in a similar industry or a business mentor or buddy of some kind would be an important step in *ensuring* this does not happen again, because the money goes up and down when you run the show and just *wanting* it not to happen again doesn't cut it. One has to learn how to plan, it's not an innate skill and had I had no one to teach me, I'd be in worse shape. I'm not a guru of sanity, by any means, but I'm better off than I would be without any outside help.

If nothing else there are millions of things I *still* forget are write offs!

I asked about him just taking the money just as a question, there's no right or wrong reaction and some people would prefer that happen that way.

I did ask him what he would do if I wasn't there with a handy savings account. Master replied that he would just have to pay the fine. I don't know how much the fine would have been or how much time it would buy him.

I do feel that he's let himself off the hook by borrowing from me. I know that everything I own is technically his but as Master is going to pay the money back, borrowing seems the most appropriate term. Generally, our finances remain separate and I have been responsible with mine. We don't have a joint account or anything like that, we just split bills down the middle.

I think he's using his M/s bravado to gloss over a situation that he is deeply unhappy with. I have no doubt that he will get everything done ahead of time next year.

I feel that I should have more equanimity about this than I'm currently exhibiting. I'm a little upset that our M/s honeymoon period is officially over. It's not that I think I should be crawling on my knees, thanking him for using my savings but I am disheartened by how personally I've taken this decision and how well I'll handle similar ones in the future.

Well, I can see why you would feel that resentment if you feel that he's "using his M/s bravado to gloss over a situation he's deeply unhappy with" - and not that you should or should not feel that way, it just seems logical that that would put a person on shaky ground.

 

[ShyGuy68]

To be honest, I personally think his actions are way out of line. I know if I had been in the same situation, I would bite be bullet, and either borrow the money in the bank, or pay the fine.

I also think it's very uncaring off him, to leave you without much fun money for your trip to New York, since he probably knew you're wanting to spend some of your savings on it. You have as you say, been responsible with your money, and have saved up some for your trip, and then it's not right that you have to pay the price for him being a slacker.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I guess an accountant would be a good idea but he doesn't earn a great deal anyway.

The tax return was an honest mistake as he really did think his figures were correct. He just filled out the forms online and the calculations were different. I think he was basing it mostly on the tax he paid last year.

I am also self employed but my business partner handles that side of things as he as experience that I don't. 2 years ago I was a nurse with a regular paycheque.

We'll get through this, I don't doubt it. I'm just feeling quite down about it all.

 

[JMohegan]

To be honest, I personally think his actions are way out of line. I know if I had been in the same situation, I would bite be bullet, and either borrow the money in the bank, or pay the fine.

I also think it's very uncaring off him, to leave you without much fun money for your trip to New York, since he probably knew you're wanting to spend some of your savings on it. You have as you say, been responsible with your money, and have saved up some for your trip, and then it's not right that you have to pay the price for him being a slacker.

Slide on over to the submissive vs. slave thread.

The theory du jour is that slave = one with the capacity for the most extreme forms of devotion.

Just think of this as shutting yourself in a no-money tomb. Or something.

You don't have to be happy about it, resentment is understandable, but please step aside quickly while he closes the door.

 

[eastern sun]

Hi.

I can relate to your feelings. My husband and I turned our marriage into a TPE and stirred up some intense resentments along the way, starting at about the same time (three months into the change).

I think I was uncomfortable at the time because I didn't feel like he was protecting me from his own limitations.

I looked at my role in the relationship and the changes it would require in me as a very positive force. But I have to be honest and say that initially I only wanted to submit to the best part of him, the most noble, generous, loving part. I thought he would meet his new responsibility by protecting me from the darker or weaker parts of himself as well as the darker, weaker parts of myself.

What I've learned over time is that he will. But not without walking headlong into the problems first. And the sacrifices that I make as he develops himself require constant vigilance on my part against resentment. Daily meditation practice at times.

I've learned how to take my fears and jealousies as well as my resentments and burn them in the fire (by experiencing them fully), to find a peace and equanimity I had not known before. But I had to feel those feelings first and fully in order to pass through them.

Equanimity is possible. Don't worry that you're feeling things. Look instead to the source of your feelings and hold on to your trust in yourself, your decision, and your relationship to walk through it.

(On the other hand, if over time He keeps taking advantage of you without being willing to work on his own stuff, do consider the consequences of staying.)

 

[Netzach]

I can relate to your feelings. My husband and I turned our marriage into a TPE and stirred up some intense resentments along the way, starting at about the same time (three months into the change).

I think I was uncomfortable at the time because I didn't feel like he was protecting me from his own limitations.

I looked at my role in the relationship and the changes it would require in me as a very positive force. But I have to be honest and say that initially I only wanted to submit to the best part of him, the most noble, generous, loving part. I thought he would meet his new responsibility by protecting me from the darker or weaker parts of himself as well as the darker, weaker parts of myself.

What I've learned over time is that he will. But not without walking headlong into the problems first. And the sacrifices that I make as he develops himself require constant vigilance on my part against resentment. Daily meditation practice at times.

I've learned how to take my fears and jealousies as well as my resentments and burn them in the fire (by experiencing them fully), to find a peace and equanimity I had not known before. But I had to feel those feelings first and fully in order to pass through them.

Equanimity is possible. Don't worry that you're feeling things. Look instead to the source of your feelings and hold on to your trust in yourself, your decision, and your relationship to walk through it.

(On the other hand, if over time He keeps taking advantage of you without being willing to work on his own stuff, do consider the consequences of staying.)

Nicely put.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Hi JM

I don't believe I'm shutting myself in a no-money tomb.

I know that I've been responsible with my own money and if I'm honest, I would have lent it to him if the decision was mine, it just feels weird because it wasn't my decision to make this time.

Ordinarily I wouldn't have been dipping into my savings as I try to leave them where they are but who knows when I'll go to NY again?

I don't currently have an overdraft so I might negotiate a small one in the morning. Master will have some money for me on Feb 4th anyway so I can clear it then. It's just shitty timing.

He was stupid and thoughtless but he does know this. Neither of us have co-habited before, let alone in a TPE. This is not going to become a regular thing, we have discussed that.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I can relate to your feelings. My husband and I turned our marriage into a TPE and stirred up some intense resentments along the way, starting at about the same time (three months into the change).

I think I was uncomfortable at the time because I didn't feel like he was protecting me from his own limitations.

I looked at my role in the relationship and the changes it would require in me as a very positive force. But I have to be honest and say that initially I only wanted to submit to the best part of him, the most noble, generous, loving part. I thought he would meet his new responsibility by protecting me from the darker or weaker parts of himself as well as the darker, weaker parts of myself.

What I've learned over time is that he will. But not without walking headlong into the problems first. And the sacrifices that I make as he develops himself require constant vigilance on my part against resentment. Daily meditation practice at times.

I've learned how to take my fears and jealousies as well as my resentments and burn them in the fire (by experiencing them fully), to find a peace and equanimity I had not known before. But I had to feel those feelings first and fully in order to pass through them.

Equanimity is possible. Don't worry that you're feeling things. Look instead to the source of your feelings and hold on to your trust in yourself, your decision, and your relationship to walk through it.

(On the other hand, if over time He keeps taking advantage of you without being willing to work on his own stuff, do consider the consequences of staying.)

Thankyou easternsun, I can really relate to that and reading your experience has helped a lot.

I do have trust and faith in our relationship. It's unfortunate that we've hit a hurdle already but we will get through it and become stronger.

You're so right about the part I've bolded. It really hit home.

 

[Netzach]

Neither of us have co-habited before, let alone in a TPE. This is not going to become a regular thing, we have discussed that.

Oh wow. I don't envy either of you, not that I don't think you have a good rel. and can get through it, it's just really hard even for people with experience with it.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Oh wow. I don't envy either of you, not that I don't think you have a good rel. and can get through it, it's just really hard even for people with experience with it.

Well, I'm a bit of a late starter at 28. I've shared with people but obviously that's different.

I've managed my own finances without interference or assistance since I went to uni at 18 so this is all very new stuff for me. I don't envy us today either to be honest.

Master is slightly younger at 24 but has lived away from home for 6 years and been self employed for 18months. He is not usually irresponsible, it's usually him who remembers to pay our bills on time, I'm more laid back and often a little late with things.

 

[Rosie_Riveter]

It sounds like you've already worked through some of your feelings, VD. But I have to concur with Netach.

Taxes shouldn't ever be a surprise--much less a surprise by a factor of three. If he can do it without an accountant, great. But you don't have much evidence supporting that. I'd be pissed as all get out.

Anyway, lots of wisdom here. Good luck.

 

[Netzach]

Well, I'm a bit of a late starter at 28. I've shared with people but obviously that's different.

I've managed my own finances without interference or assistance since I went to uni at 18 so this is all very new stuff for me. I don't envy us today either to be honest.

Master is slightly younger at 24 but has lived away from home for 6 years and been self employed for 18months. He is not usually irresponsible, it's usually him who remembers to pay our bills on time, I'm more laid back and often a little late with things.

I often find that active beats out passive. You could ask his permission to sell off some stuff that you don't want/need on ebay or slough off some used books for some extra cash in NYC. It acknowledges that everything is his, yet also draws you onto his side, I would think.

Problem solver mode may help you not be bummed out and may help him feel more like you're being a team with the problem rather than being in let-down mode.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

As always, it's been good to vent a little and get a few alternate perspectives.

*sits down cross-legged and waits to be enlightened further*

 

[Netzach]

Taxes shouldn't ever be a surprise--much less a surprise by a factor of three.

Hahahaha - uh you may agree with me, but you should also see my taxes.

Really really pull out all the write offs though. I'll bet he has some receipts that might make the problem disappear altogether if he's like me....mileage? biz-related travel? anything? Industry magazine subscriptions? It's SO easy to overlook things that you should not be paying taxes on, especially if you do love what you do, it's hard to get out of "hobby head"

I love being the boss I love being the boss I love being the boss, really

 

[HottieMama]

All i am going to say is that you are a better woman than me. While i realize that this is what you "agreed to" in the beginning of your relationship, i think you are assuming the brunt of his negligence and irresponsibility.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I often find that active beats out passive. You could ask his permission to sell off some stuff that you don't want/need on ebay or slough off some used books for some extra cash in NYC. It acknowledges that everything is his, yet also draws you onto his side, I would think.

Problem solver mode may help you not be bummed out and may help him feel more like you're being a team with the problem rather than being in let-down mode.

Very true. I have sold an old mobile phone of mine to a friend for £40 and I'm sure I could put a few things on ebay, although there isn't time for my trip to benefit from that. I generally give unwanted stuff to charity but it seems I qualify this week.

The nearest used bookstore to me is 5 miles away and without a car I have no time to bus it there and back before I leave tomorrow. I'll see what I come up with this evening.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Hahahaha - uh you may agree with me, but you should also see my taxes.

Really really pull out all the write offs though. I'll bet he has some receipts that might make the problem disappear altogether if he's like me....mileage? biz-related travel? anything?

I love being the boss I love being the boss I love being the boss, really

He works from home so all he really has is the broadband bill and the electricity bill. Neither of us has a car.

He's bought a few nerdy microchippy things for his PC that could maybe fall under business expenses. I'll ask him.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

All i am going to say is that you are a better woman than me. While i realize that this is what you "agreed to" in the beginning of your relationship, i think you are assuming the brunt of his negligence and irresponsibility.

Well yes, but trust me when I say that he feels like shit and wants to return the money asap.

It's not a dealbreaker for me so I'll just have to wear it.

 

[Netzach]

He works from home so all he really has is the broadband bill and the electricity bill. Neither of us has a car.

He's bought a few nerdy microchippy things for his PC that could maybe fall under business expenses. I'll ask him.

WARNING: I am not an accountant. I am asking the questions my accuontant asked me, and I am only an internet idiot saying that. BUT

are you dividing the footprint of your house that is his workspace and writing that off if you rent? Storage of all his nerd detrius (we have lots, but M is not self-employed) 1/2 client meals if any meetings? Anything whatsoever done to the comp, any outside repairs. Anything bought for research, books on his industry.

Sorry. As you can see I default to solution mode myself. I just hate to see people unhappy or paying more than they should.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

WARNING: I am not an accountant. I am asking the questions my accuontant asked me, and I am only an internet idiot saying that. BUT

are you dividing the footprint of your house that is his workspace and writing that off if you rent?

He's writing off half the bill, apparently he did that last year and it was fine. We don't actually use that much electric as the heating and hot water etc is all gas.

I'm going out for a bit now, will check back later.

 

[JMohegan]

Hi JM

I don't believe I'm shutting myself in a no-money tomb.

I know that I've been responsible with my own money and if I'm honest, I would have lent it to him if the decision was mine, it just feels weird because it wasn't my decision to make this time.

Ordinarily I wouldn't have been dipping into my savings as I try to leave them where they are but who knows when I'll go to NY again?

I don't currently have an overdraft so I might negotiate a small one in the morning. Master will have some money for me on Feb 4th anyway so I can clear it then. It's just shitty timing.

He was stupid and thoughtless but he does know this. Neither of us have co-habited before, let alone in a TPE. This is not going to become a regular thing, we have discussed that.

Hi, Velvet.

My "tomb" remark was really commentary on another thread. That was just my way of expressing frustration with the broader BDSM culture, one that holds forth a vision of M/s which is every bit as romanticized as a Disney movie's vision of marriage. Sometimes the practical realities of what it actually means to live as a slave get short shrift or no mention.

You say that you are feeling "weird" - resentful, confused, disappointed. My response is to say that this is a perfectly normal reaction that pops up occasionally in any D/s relationship - especially the first time that the submissive is required to do something she really doesn't like, and most notably when the D in question screws up.

I see you beating yourself up for those negative feelings, and I hope you will give yourself a break.