Episodes from the life of girl A

[SweetGigi]

In this episode: PAIN to PLEASURE REHAB.

How does someone create this change? Say girl A is being wooed by a Sadist- and girl A is FAAAAR from being a masochist. She really likes HIM and every other thing in the budding relationship is spot on, but there is a underlying hindrance. Girl A is scared to death of real pain. The Sadist is also worried girl A won't be able to expand her horizons as well. How does girl A approach this situation and how does she narrow the perspective she has on pain in order to broaden the horizons for potential pleasure? In your opinion, should she even try to attempt this feat?

 

[Sir_Winston54]

In this episode: PAIN to PLEASURE REHAB.

How does someone create this change? Say girl A is being wooed by a Sadist- and girl A is FAAAAR from being a masochist. She really likes HIM and every other thing in the budding relationship is spot on, but there is a underlying hindrance. Girl A is scared to death of real pain. The Sadist is also worried girl A won't be able to expand her horizons as well. How does girl A approach this situation and how does she narrow the perspective she has on pain in order to broaden the horizons for potential pleasure? In your opinion, should she even try to attempt this feat?

Wow. This scenario seems ripe for "issues." However,...

You say, "Girl A is scared to death of real pain." (Emphasis mine.) Can one infer, then, that she is not afraid of minor pain, e.g., mild spankings, nipple clamps neither too tight nor too heavy nor left on too long, etc.? If so, one could reasonably presume that she could train herself or be trained to accept gradually increasing increments of pain, especially if the pain were followed by pleasure, or became pleasurable in and of itself during the process. A lot would depend on the ability of the Sadist to "restrain" himself to only providing such sensation as was acceptable in the emotions of Girl A, and to push her boundaries only in slight increments.

If, however, she is deathly afraid of delivered pain - e.g., as in one who experienced physical abuse as a child - one would believe that the possibility of the relationship being successful would be very small, unless there was almost an overload of open and honest communication between the two, and stringent adherence to safeword usage by both parties. Without those two factors, I would suggest that Girl A sadly tell the Sadist, "I'm sorry, but my fear of pain is so great that I feel we could never be to one another what either of us would wish."

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

In this episode: PAIN to PLEASURE REHAB.

How does someone create this change? Say girl A is being wooed by a Sadist- and girl A is FAAAAR from being a masochist. She really likes HIM and every other thing in the budding relationship is spot on, but there is a underlying hindrance. Girl A is scared to death of real pain. The Sadist is also worried girl A won't be able to expand her horizons as well. How does girl A approach this situation and how does she narrow the perspective she has on pain in order to broaden the horizons for potential pleasure? In your opinion, should she even try to attempt this feat?

I can just say I didnt know I was a masochist untill I get the know my Master whos sadist. I fear pain as well, I hate dentists, I would never get a ear rings by myself and I am fukin scared of the cuming up labor thats infront of me. But for the sexual pain I am very into it, I didnt know it untill I gave it a try tho. My Master was easy on me and I enjoyed it and still enjoy it, so I would recommend the girl A to give it a try cuz she might find out that pain during the sex can be very stimulating and nice. I just love it.

 

[intothewoods]

I can just say I didnt know I was a masochist untill I get the know my Master whos sadist. I fear pain as well, I hate dentists, I would never get a ear rings by myself and I am fukin scared of the cuming up labor thats infront of me. But for the sexual pain I am very into it, I didnt know it untill I gave it a try tho. My Master was easy on me and I enjoyed it and still enjoy it, so I would recommend the girl A to give it a try cuz she might find out that pain during the sex can be very stimulating and nice. I just love it.

Wait - what? I thought you guys hadn't met in real life?

 

[intothewoods]

I actually was wondering something similar earlier. I would like to take more pain, but it's really hard. It just feels stingy and scary and I feel all tense and not able to "breathe" through it. It all ends fabulously, but I find it hard to take the pain during. And of course, Mister Man isn't so into - uh, wait, slow down, warm me up, etc. Ya know, I can't micromanage a damn sadist.

 

[Velvet Bubbles]

I say she should go for it. Slowly, sanely, carefully. With all parameters negotiated before starting & then stuck to. It's hard to know what you want until you try it. I've got to the point where I crave a little pain, every now & then. (Not that I want to admit that.)

 

[SweetGigi]

So then, woodsy, is it a flaw within the Sadist to be inflexible within the confides of this sort of relationship? I don't think you should be able to micromanage anyone much less a sadist, but when should he be 'into' warming you up or knowing when to slow it down to your speed so you can gain his momentum?

 

[nh23]

I actually was wondering something similar earlier. I would like to take more pain, but it's really hard. It just feels stingy and scary and I feel all tense and not able to "breathe" through it. It all ends fabulously, but I find it hard to take the pain during. And of course, Mister Man isn't so into - uh, wait, slow down, warm me up, etc. Ya know, I can't micromanage a damn sadist.

IMO if he wants to build up your pain tolerance and comfort level for pain, he would do better to warm you up and increase the pain slowly. On the other hand he may enjoy the way you react now...

 

[nh23]

Wait - what? I thought you guys hadn't met in real life?

That's what I thought too

 

[Homburg]

So then, woodsy, is it a flaw within the Sadist to be inflexible within the confides of this sort of relationship? I don't think you should be able to micromanage anyone much less a sadist, but when should he be 'into' warming you up or knowing when to slow it down to your speed so you can gain his momentum?

Thus the difference between a good sadist and a poor sadist. A good one realises the limits of his bottom, and works those limits carefully. A poor sadist doesn't worry so much, being concerned for his own sadistic pleasure.

As to him being into warm-ups and the like, it's pretty simple. Is he into you? Do you need warm-ups? If yes, he needs to be into warm-ups.

Negotiate. If he can't negotiate, well, that's a bit of a problem, no?

 

[SweetGigi]

such sage words, Homburg. now what say you of the girl A senario?

 

[Homburg]

In this episode: PAIN to PLEASURE REHAB.

How does someone create this change? Say girl A is being wooed by a Sadist- and girl A is FAAAAR from being a masochist. She really likes HIM and every other thing in the budding relationship is spot on, but there is a underlying hindrance. Girl A is scared to death of real pain. The Sadist is also worried girl A won't be able to expand her horizons as well. How does girl A approach this situation and how does she narrow the perspective she has on pain in order to broaden the horizons for potential pleasure? In your opinion, should she even try to attempt this feat?

such sage words, Homburg. now what say you of the girl A senario?

Much like Sir Winston, my first question would be in regards to the why's behind her dislike of pain, and the specific what's. Heavy pain, delivered pain, stingy pain, thuddy pain, sensual pain, etc. There's lotsa different pain out there.

Overall, unless you are really wired against it, being a moderate maso is not all that impossible to train in. It just takes patience and some finesse. And, most importantly, it takes desire and commitment on the part of the person being trained. That's a big part of it, as you have to want it. Thus the more you ar einto this guy, the more likely you will be to learn to enjoy the pain.

Try some of the really hot, light pain stuff. I'd personally suggest a wartenberg wheel. They tend to just break people down with sensation, and don't hurt enough to overload. Abrasion play is another area to example. Difficult postures too. There's all sorts of options.

In the end, it all hinges on communication and how much each party is willing to work to accomodate the other.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Wait - what? I thought you guys hadn't met in real life?

That's what I thought too

We didnt yes, theres still lots of things I can experience even without meeting him tho just by doing what he says.

 

[intothewoods]

IMO if he wants to build up your pain tolerance and comfort level for pain, he would do better to warm you up and increase the pain slowly. On the other hand he may enjoy the way you react now...

Well, he does. Enjoy my squirms and yelps. I think we just need a balance. But even afterwards he was saying, I don't get this "warmng up" thing. Now, he gets it. We've talked about it. But I think we just haven't fine tuned things. Lol. Who is the damn Top here? We are actually going to a convention of sorts in March, and I'm hoping we'll both learn a lot there.

 

[Netzach]

It's the Chemistry.

Maybe 1 in 110,0000000000000 people likes stubbing their toe and going to the dentist. I don't even know why these things go mentioned, I know a woman in real life I've seen beaten to black and blue, those "kill me and I'd die smiling" types, but she still doesn't like banging her elbow on the doorframe.

I do not like pain from my period, pain from banging my feet on things, pain from Crohn's, pain from surgery, pain from feeling betrayed by a loved one.

I can enjoy a good caning. I can get into needles, which surprised me. I can enjoy feeling frustrated to tears by my top. I played a lot as a bottom without romantic investment simply because there were people around me interested in teaching and giving me experiences to my level and discovering along with me that I can enjoy some pain. They were all pretty gracious about the fact that I wasn't really going to submit to them after we packed up, and it was good. It worked well because I had a village - if I expected one person alone to show me all this stuff and not get more back from me, they'd be drained and annoyed.

There's nothing "bad" about a Sadist who doesn't have the time or emotional investment in you to train you to be a painslut. It's totally possible to do, but it takes much LESS time and energy and investment it seems, when you are both really really into each other. The days fly by if you are the Sado and every little twitch of progress is so exciting. The days fly by and you push yourself to take just a little more without even a second's though if you are the maso.

If you don't have chemistry, it's like a good class at best, and not working at worst.

I think most *human beings* - you know, people who bleed red and come in lots of colors and are Dom sub and switch and not either - your Sadist included *could* be trained to be a painslut in their sexual life.

God people hate it when I say it....but I honestly believe that really all it takes is a brain, a nervous system, some psychology and the willingness to use them to start doing "pain as pleasure."

A lot of Sadists who would never ever ever for a minute let their partner spank them and find any pleasure in it, will, like me, pay to get so sore they can hardly move at yoga class, or pay for deep tissue work, or go running. Because I'm just talking about pain/pleasure - I'm not talking about control or context.

We ALL have endorphins and we ALL have varying degrees of "runners' high" capability. We ALL also have histories and hang ups and personality traits that mean we're able to get into that or not. We also have differing enough chemistry that some people will never find certain levels of pain satisfying and others will never be able to handle them at all. There's huge variation there.

So I guess the question is: are you that into pleasing this person?
or/and are you that interested in finding out for your own curiosity and self-knowledge if and how much you can do this?

I think a dose of submission is good, but if you're talking about the physicality a dose of curiosity killed the cat is REALLY good. That's what caused me to have any interest at all, a sense of "well I'll try it, how bad can it really be?"

I know that needles are OK, but 18 ga needles are not, canes are OK but more the lighter stingier kinds, and too much of anything while I'm standing makes me want to pass out, and I'm never going to *voluntarily* be catheterized, you have to be kidding me.

You do learn a lot about your body. My fears were few though, mostly that they'd derail my learning as a top and that they'd prevent people from seeing me as a top/dominant as well.

People also change. I play a lot differently after being ill. I can say I haven't done needles since I had to have enough IV's that I lost count and enough blood tests that we're in triple digits. I may not ever find them that fun and exciting again.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I have to admit, I'm .

The only time I start out with full-force delivery of pain is in punishment. Only. Ever.

And in "play," even with someone I know has an extremely high tolerance for pain, I use a warm-up period, for two reasons: 1) It allows me to get into the rhythm and mindset that I need in order to "perform" to the best of my abilities; 2) It allows her to build up the endorphins to make the net result of the session pleasurable.

So is that strange for a Sadist? I dunno. It's what's normal for me. I enjoy providing pain that is felt as pain, yet transforms through my mindset and hers into a pleasurable experience for both of us, despite the fact that she may have tears running down her face before it's over; despite the fact that she might have welts and/or bruises that last for days, a week, more; despite the fact that simply sitting down may be intensely uncomfortable for those same days, week, more. Even then, I've been told, that discomfort is simply a reminder of a pleasurable experience, and brings a mental pleasure that overcomes the physical pain.

For me, it's about delivering sensation - often, sensation that can only be achieved through my sadism - that is wanted, needed, intensely desired by my partner. If I can't provide her what she wants and needs by doing what I want and need to do, then I am failing her - and myself. Giving her that (ultimately) pleasurable experience through sensation/pain brings me pleasure, and satisfaction that we have succeeded in reaching our goal.

 

[Primalex]

Thus the difference between a good sadist and a poor sadist. A good one realises the limits of his bottom, and works those limits carefully. A poor sadist doesn't worry so much, being concerned for his own sadistic pleasure.

*ponders*
Sadism in its true form is the derivation of pleasure as a result of suffering of others. If a sadist is merely the toy of the masochist, wouldn't he be then a poor sadist? (a nice guy, but a poor sadist..).
*gets flameproof vest*

 

[Netzach]

*ponders*
Sadism in its true form is the derivation of pleasure as a result of suffering of others. If a sadist is merely the toy of the masochist, wouldn't he be then a poor sadist? (a nice guy, but a poor sadist..).
*gets flameproof vest*

Astoundingly, I agree with you.

It's really just about getting them to like enough that you can easily transition to where it gets interesting. Most self-defined masochists are in fact pain sluts. Most self-described sadists are attracted to the control factor of giving out pain.

I find the idea, like SW, of just whaling away on someone "cold" who hates it to be a little brutal and artless, it doesn't do anything for me. The process of seduction and the moment when they're in for a little more than they bargained for and they love that, then it's good.

 

[WriterDom]

If it's a budding relationship then what is the rush? I'm in a similar situation but on the other side and my plan is to leave her wanting more each time at least in the beginning. People's limits can expand a lot in twelve months.

But I do know a little of your history and you are a special case. He needs to go very slow with you or you could be in a bad place mentally. If you really care about each other I'm sure you can work it out.

I'll be around if you want to chat.

 

[SweetGigi]

To Primalex: I agree- to a point. In my humble opinion there has to be a basic level of caring about the some one when inflicting pain of any kind. If you don't have at least 'some' sort of connection- some level of understanding of the other- it finely walks the line of abuse. Knowing your subject is key. If you don't care enough to get to know your subject then there is a basic break down there.

 

[Homburg]

*ponders*
Sadism in its true form is the derivation of pleasure as a result of suffering of others. If a sadist is merely the toy of the masochist, wouldn't he be then a poor sadist? (a nice guy, but a poor sadist..).
*gets flameproof vest*

Eh, if we're just discussing the pure meaning of the word, I agree. But, in this context, we're discussing a reciprocal relationship between two people. A pure sadist is going to approach the issue differently.

The disconnect here is between the term and its' application within the field of BDSM. We do not tend to engage in sadism. We engage in consentual sadism. Therein lies the difference. Sadism, looking to the person after whom it is named, was not consent-based.

So please understand that I am offering the descriptors of good/poor within the context of a consent-based BDSM relationship, not some pure pathological definition of sadism.

 

[Primalex]

Well, this isn't going to make me popular, but hey..

To Primalex: I agree- to a point. In my humble opinion there has to be a basic level of caring about the some one when inflicting pain of any kind. If you don't have at least 'some' sort of connection- some level of understanding of the other- it finely walks the line of abuse.

Yes, because you fancy this romantic view of sadism. "Oh, baby, spank me harder, I was a naughty girl". If you are with a true sadist, you will be in for a big surprise.

But it's easy to draw the line, you can just ask the guy:
"If I start to cry, do you hit harder or softer?"

A true sadist will answer either "harder" or "Did you use the safeword? No? Then harder.". If he answers "softer", you are with a maso toy, something which is most likely better for you. And yes, there are woman, who do expect what you call "abuse" - the inflicting of pain, despair, grief and suffering devoid of the control of the maso and being taken beyond the limit, because taken to the limit, is boring. But the ratio of bedroom masos to real masos is about the same as the ratio of horny net geeks to doms (like the ratio of bedroom sadists (who enjoy the control, not the suffering per se) to real sadists).

Or another recommendation:
Tell him to give you the best shot he has. Take it all, clench your teeth, rather bite your tongue off than use the safeword and just imagine it's preparation for the time when/if you give birth. Then when it's over, decide afterwards, if you enjoyed it or not. It might cause permanent harm to your relationship though now, but at least you didn't waste your time.

Raising your pain tolerance? Nonsense. If you are with a sadist, he will increase the pain the same as your tolerance raises, otherwise the whole play would be useless. Sadists don't need a certain level of pain they inflict (as in: a certain strength they use the whip), they need a certain level of your suffering! And knowing how much they need you to suffer is the key in knowing if you are compatible.

Disclaimer:
I don't want to express that a "true sadist" is in any way better or more original or in any way superior to a "bedroom sadist" or "maso toy", although the latter terms might sound deragatory. Humankind provides plenty of variation and none is better or worse - but precautions should be made so that the matching variations get together.

 

[Netzach]

There's something really rewarding about turning someone into a kind of you-junkie though where they're coming round begging pleading and hoping for the pain you deliver the way you deliver it, because it's you. I don't think that's being a service top, but I'm not sure it's pure sadism. But I would descibe my pain play with H to be like this.

The temptation to hit him harder and not softer when he's trying hard to take it is there, but it's tempered with my desire to hear HIM admitting it, asking for it, the pleasure of being able to always make it his fault, his asking, his doing, his idea in the first place-- "what a sick little fuck you are" is the condiment I like on my meat.

I always *want* to hit harder on the base id level, but if I do is relative to whether you've been good and I care about you at all, otherwise fine, we'll stay in the kiddie pool, you can go get your catharsis with the shrink. It's more work than its worth unless there is investment.

 

[BiBunny]

But it's easy to draw the line, you can just ask the guy:
"If I start to cry, do you hit harder or softer?"

A true sadist will answer either "harder" or "Did you use the safeword? No? Then harder.". If he answers "softer", you are with a maso toy, something which is most likely better for you. And yes, there are woman, who do expect what you call "abuse" - the inflicting of pain, despair, grief and suffering devoid of the control of the maso and being taken beyond the limit, because taken to the limit, is boring. But the ratio of bedroom masos to real masos is about the same as the ratio of horny net geeks to doms (like the ratio of bedroom sadists (who enjoy the control, not the suffering per se) to real sadists).

I'm gonna give a big ol' "not necessarily" on the crying thing. Depends on the needs of the sadist (and the needs of the object of his/her attentions) on that particular day. I find this to be true from either side.

 

[BiBunny]

There's something really rewarding about turning someone into a kind of you-junkie though where they're coming round begging pleading and hoping for the pain you deliver the way you deliver it, because it's you. I don't think that's being a service top, but I'm not sure it's pure sadism. But I would descibe my pain play with H to be like this.

The temptation to hit him harder and not softer when he's trying hard to take it is there, but it's tempered with my desire to hear HIM admitting it, asking for it, the pleasure of being able to always make it his fault, his asking, his doing, his idea in the first place-- "what a sick little fuck you are" is the condiment I like on my meat.

I always *want* to hit harder on the base id level, but if I do is relative to whether you've been good and I care about you at all, otherwise fine, we'll stay in the kiddie pool, you can go get your catharsis with the shrink. It's more work than its worth unless there is investment.

And, yes, there is that, too. My inner sadist has this need to feed another's addiction, so to speak. I'm conceited like that.