Why men earn more than women

Le Jacquelope

Loves Spam
Joined
Apr 9, 2003
Posts
76,445
Yup, you guessed it, this article dispels the myth of oppression of women's paychecks in the workplace.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/28/commentary/everyday/sahadi/index.htm

Where women's pay trumps men's
Much is made of the fact the men often earn more than women. Well, that's not always the case. See which occupations defy the norm.
By Jeanne Sahadi, CNNMoney.com senior writer
March 2, 2006: 9:36 AM EST

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Men work more than women ... on the job anyway ... at least in terms of overall hours.

That's just one reason why when you make a general comparison of men's and women's earnings in most fields, men usually come out ahead, according to Warren Farrell, the San Diego-based author of "Why Men Earn More: The Startling Truth Behind the Pay Gap – and What Women Can Do About It."

"People who do best in a field (financially) just plain put in more hours," said Farrell, a former board member of the New York City chapter of the National Organization for Women (NOW).

But hours alone don't fully account for the gap in women's and men's earnings. Farrell identifies 25 work-life decisions that men and women make in the course of their careers that have a direct bearing on their earning potential.

Farrell found, for instance, that men are more likely to opt for doing that which can lead to a higher paycheck, including:

* Relocate or travel extensively for work

* Take on more hazardous assignments

* Work in the hard sciences

* Take jobs requiring greater financial risk

* Work in unpleasant environments (e.g. prisons or coal mines)

Women, by contrast, are more likely to seek "careers that are more fulfilling, flexible and safe," Farrell writes. But the tradeoff is that "the pay can be lower because more people compete to be fulfilled, causing the supply to exceed the demand."

Even among highly paid women -- those who make over $100,000 -- Farrell found they are more likely than men at the same pay level to forfeit some pay in exchange for more free time. (And by "free time," I just mean free from the office. But often women reduce their work hours so they can take care of their families.)

While men may end up with more pay in many fields, Farrell believes women can end up with a better life on balance.

And in some fields, they have a shot at having a more balanced life and making more than their male counterparts.

He found more than 80 such occupations for regular working women. That is, not supermodels, who not surprisingly can earn far more than male models thanks to a seemingly insatiable demand for tall, thin, airbrushed versions of feminine beauty.

In 39 of the occupations Farrell found, women's median earnings exceeded men's earnings by at least 5 percent and in some cases by as much as 43 percent. (See the list here.)

Why do some fields pay women a premium? "No one really knows perfectly the answer," Farrell told me.

One factor may be scarcity. In fields like engineering, a company may get one woman and seven men applying for a job, Farrell said. If the company wants to hire the woman, they may have to pay a premium to get her.

That's because she may have more competing offers than her male counterparts. The reason: not only is she a top performer who can boost a company's profitability but employing her helps a company improve its equal-opportunity standing, which in turn can help it secure government contracts.

Also, where women can combine technical expertise with people skills – such as those required in sales and other arenas where customers may prefer dealing with a woman – that's likely to contribute to a premium in pay.

"She gives people the best of both worlds," Farrell said.

Another factor also may be an increase in the number of career programs designed to advance women, he noted.

It's not that Farrell doesn't think pay discrimination exists. It does, he said, but it's not always against women. There's plenty of it against men, too.

He points to careers that have limited opportunities for men – e.g., dental hygienist or elementary school teacher because people prefer a woman in those roles. That's not that much different from law firm clients who years ago may have preferred to deal with a male lawyer, he notes.

I don't usually use this column to recommend books, but "Why Men Earn More" will provide much food for thought, no matter where you stand in the pay-gap debate.

And for anyone inclined to assume men have it easier at work, this book -- complete with far more textured, subtle arguments than a column can ever convey -- will make you think twice.
 
Yeah though look at two of the biggest differences of women being paid more than men, porn star and supermodel. :rolleyes:

Of course there is still the engineer, yeah she makes more, but that is because every company wants a woman so they look better.

Still comes down to, women have breasts and men want to stare at them or have them stared at by other people so they make more money. :rolleyes:

Loving your still a silly old goof. :p
 
Yeah though look at two of the biggest differences of women being paid more than men, porn star and supermodel. :rolleyes:

Of course there is still the engineer, yeah she makes more, but that is because every company wants a woman so they look better.

Still comes down to, women have breasts and men want to stare at them or have them stared at by other people so they make more money. :rolleyes:

Loving your still a silly old goof. :p
Hey, if a woman wants to pay me to look at my crotch while I work or have female clients buy from me because they get to look at my package, then go for it. I don't see the problem. You women loathe what men would give their lives to experience.
 
Try again:

EARNINGS--Women's median weekly earnings in 2005: $585 for full-time wage and salary workers, $722 for men.
Overall, women’s earnings as a percent of men’s were 81.0 percent.
Women's median hourly earnings: $10.31 for those paid hourly rates, $12.16 for men.

2006: The median weekly earnings of women who were full-time wage and salary workers was $600, or 81 percent of men’s $743. When comparing the median weekly earnings of persons aged 16 to 24, young women earned 94% of what young men earned ($395 and $418, respectively).
Source: U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, Employment and Earnings, January 2006.





A History of Gender Inequity in Income

In 1997, the U.S. Department of Labor documented a 24 percent pay deficit when comparing female to male weekly earnings in similar positions. The National Association for Female Executives (NAFE, 2004) reported disparity statistics in favor of men in selected positions across twenty-one industries, (Table 1), including Advertising, Retail, Law, Technology, Media, Education, and Library Science. When considering gender and ethnicity, The U. S. Census Bureau, data cited in San Francisco Gate (2005), reported wage disparities to be even greater for women of color with African-American females earning slightly more than 65 percent and Latina women earning 55 percent of salaries paid to males in identical jobs.

Position/Industry

Female Male

Accountants

$85,375 $119,314

Accountants (1-5 years experience)

$72,534 $94,314

Advertising Account Executive

$49,000 $56,000

Allergists or Immunologists

$190,983 $254,289

CEO, Health Care

$152,673 $195,783

Lawyer

$73,476 $84,188

Government/Lobbying, Nonprofit

$73,907 $96,655

Managing Editor

$55,983 $62,574

Neurological Surgeons

$337,031 $487,000

Reference Librarian, 0-5 years experience

$38,399 $39,958

Retail Store Sales

$19,864 $31,148

Teachers

$42,848 $46,956

Web infrastructure

$69,850 $87,750

Average Full Time Employee

$97,071

$127,379

Note. Salaries vary by industry and include medians, total compensation, average base, average total including salary and bonus.

also:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_394227.html

http://hr.blr.com/news.aspx?id=18675


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/washington/30scotus.html

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1181293542373


and for those dirty frenchies:
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/2001/09/feature/fr0109106f.htm
 

My article explained that men work longer hours

which in many cases, implies overtime pay.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/28/commentary/everyday/sahadi_paytable/index.htm

Field Women's Men's How much more women make
Sales engineers $89,908 $62,660 43%
Statisticians $49,140 $36,296 35%
Legislators $43,316 $32,656 33%
Other transportation workers $43,160 $33,124 30%
Automotive service technicians and mechanics $40,664 $31,460 29%
Speech-language pathologists $45,136 $35,048 29%
Library assistants, clerical $23,608 $18,512 28%
Motion picture projectionists $35,412 $27,924 27%
Helpers, construction trades $26,936 $21,736 24%
Funeral services workers $30,108 $24,492 23%
Motor vehicle operators, all other $22,412 $18,252 23%
Baggage porters, bellhops and concierges $26,468 $21,684 22%
Biological technicians $32,292 $26,364 22%
Telephone operators $22,152 $18,356 21%
Food batchmakers $27,872 $23,400 19%
Rolling machine setters, operators, and tenders, metal and plastic $29,692 $25,064 18%
Financial analysts $69,004 $58,604 18%
Personal care and service workers, all other $19,864 $17,160 16%
Meter readers, utilities $36,348 $31,668 15%
Tool and die makers $46,228 $40,144 15%
Library technicians $33,384 $29,328 14%
Crossing guards $18,824 $16,640 13%
Information and record clerks, all other $29,484 $26,312 12%
Telecommunications line installers and repairers $40,716 $36,348 12%
Aerospace engineers $78,416 $70,356 11%
Radiation therapists $59,124 $53,300 11%
Automotive body and related repairers $30,888 $28,132 10%
Other education, training and library workers $46,176 $42,120 10%
Human resources assistants, except payroll and timekeeping $30,420 $28,028 9%
Precision instrument and equipment repairers $40,612 $37,648 8%
Gaming services workers $24,076 $22,308 8%
Engineering managers $82,784 $76,752 8%
Agricultural and food scientists $41,704 $39,156 7%
Aircraft structure, surfaces, rigging and systems assemblers $28,652 $26,676 7%
Residential advisers $24,492 $23,036 6%
Supervisors, protective service workers, all other $34,684 $32,656 6%
Surveying and mapping technicians $34,840 $32,864 6%
Lifeguards and other protective service workers $19,188 $18,356 5%
Advertising and promotions managers $42,068 $40,144 5%
 
My article explained that men work longer hours

which in many cases, implies overtime pay.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/28/commentary/everyday/sahadi_paytable/index.htm

Field Women's Men's How much more women make
Sales engineers $89,908 $62,660 43%
Statisticians $49,140 $36,296 35%
Legislators $43,316 $32,656 33%
Other transportation workers $43,160 $33,124 30%
Automotive service technicians and mechanics $40,664 $31,460 29%
Speech-language pathologists $45,136 $35,048 29%
Library assistants, clerical $23,608 $18,512 28%
Motion picture projectionists $35,412 $27,924 27%
Helpers, construction trades $26,936 $21,736 24%
Funeral services workers $30,108 $24,492 23%
Motor vehicle operators, all other $22,412 $18,252 23%
Baggage porters, bellhops and concierges $26,468 $21,684 22%
Biological technicians $32,292 $26,364 22%
Telephone operators $22,152 $18,356 21%
Food batchmakers $27,872 $23,400 19%
Rolling machine setters, operators, and tenders, metal and plastic $29,692 $25,064 18%
Financial analysts $69,004 $58,604 18%
Personal care and service workers, all other $19,864 $17,160 16%
Meter readers, utilities $36,348 $31,668 15%
Tool and die makers $46,228 $40,144 15%
Library technicians $33,384 $29,328 14%
Crossing guards $18,824 $16,640 13%
Information and record clerks, all other $29,484 $26,312 12%
Telecommunications line installers and repairers $40,716 $36,348 12%
Aerospace engineers $78,416 $70,356 11%
Radiation therapists $59,124 $53,300 11%
Automotive body and related repairers $30,888 $28,132 10%
Other education, training and library workers $46,176 $42,120 10%
Human resources assistants, except payroll and timekeeping $30,420 $28,028 9%
Precision instrument and equipment repairers $40,612 $37,648 8%
Gaming services workers $24,076 $22,308 8%
Engineering managers $82,784 $76,752 8%
Agricultural and food scientists $41,704 $39,156 7%
Aircraft structure, surfaces, rigging and systems assemblers $28,652 $26,676 7%
Residential advisers $24,492 $23,036 6%
Supervisors, protective service workers, all other $34,684 $32,656 6%
Surveying and mapping technicians $34,840 $32,864 6%
Lifeguards and other protective service workers $19,188 $18,356 5%
Advertising and promotions managers $42,068 $40,144 5%

Show me department of labor statistics to back that up..
 
The thing about women getting more when they are a scarcity in that field is generally true. After my internship I started out making a tad bit more than the men because it's a male dominated field.
Maybe not true of every single one of them but I'd wager it's the majority.
 
Here's what the Department of Labor has to say on it:

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2001/sept/wk1/art02.htm

http://www.bls.gov/cps/labor2005/chart5-8.pdf

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/1999/jan/wk4/art03.htm

I'm seeing no links to the Department of Labor from that source that was cited.

One link is from 2000, one is from 1998 and the other takes the workforce as a whole. None of those mean shit right now.
The article in this thread listed particular jobs and the reasons behind the overall trend.
The stats mentioned are credited to the dept of labor at the bottom of the chart in the link.
 
Even if it were true that men and women get paid equal salaries for similar positions (and that's an awful big if) there is still the fact that female dominated professions are undervalued. Nurses and teachers are doing what is still widely considered to be feminine work, and as a result are not thought of as a priority compared to more manly pursuits such as policemen or fireman (some argue hazard pay in these cases, but being a nurse is no less dangerous.)
Economists and the politicians who adore them love to say that we should let the market dictate salaries; that if a certain job is underpaid then people will choose not to take that job, and as a result salaries will rise to attract the necessary numbers. The wise and benevolent market will solve all. This fails to take into account (among other issues) the fact that a lot of women do not prioritise pay and are drawn to these nurturing professions despite low earning potential. Should they be punished for that?
 
One link is from 2000, one is from 1998 and the other takes the workforce as a whole. None of those mean shit right now.
The article in this thread listed particular jobs and the reasons behind the overall trend.
The stats mentioned are credited to the dept of labor at the bottom of the chart in the link.

Those are straight of the DoL site... show me something more recent. Show me a direct link to the DoL site. And even if it happens to be true in those particular industries, you have to take the median, the average, and the truth of ALL the statistics, not just the ones that are suiting your argument with that article. Fact is, women, as a whole, earn a lot less than men for the same jobs on average, and you can't put any spin on it that says otherwise, because it's simply not true.

Sure I can find a woman that gets paid more than a man somewhere... but who cares? That doesn't indicate that all women get paid more than men, because I can find an exception to the rule.
 
Those are straight of the DoL site... show me something more recent. Show me a direct link to the DoL site. And even if it happens to be true in those particular industries, you have to take the median, the average, and the truth of ALL the statistics, not just the ones that are suiting your argument with that article. Fact is, women, as a whole, earn a lot less than men for the same jobs on average, and you can't put any spin on it that says otherwise, because it's simply not true.

Sure I can find a woman that gets paid more than a man somewhere... but who cares? That doesn't indicate that all women get paid more than men, because I can find an exception to the rule.

You didn't actually read the article in question, did you?
 
Hey men are so not smarter. :mad:

Loving actually wouldn't work, because you gotta look professional there really is no package showing, even if you pad you don't exactly have a bulge. A woman on the other hand, the professional look for a woman almost always encludes a skirt and a jacket that is not buttoned. :rolleyes:

Of course let's go down to an area I know well, waitresses and waiters, ever looked at what they wear? Waiters get pants and a shirt, and a waist apron, sometimes a vest. Waitresses get a short skirt, how short depends on if it is a bar club or restaurant, a waist apron and a shirt. Again depending on were you are the shirt is tight or not so tight, not to mention pulled up and tied under the breasts. :rolleyes:

Yes you can on occassion see waiters with their shirt pulled up and tied under the breasts, if you happen to wander into a gay bar. :cool:

I have and I liked seeing that OK, doesn't matter if he was about as fairy as you can find. :eek:

Men make more except when it comes down to what you look like in which case, breasts sell. Even in retail men make more, though I think alot of that has more to do with men get promotions and women are usually shoved out front to sell things than companies paying more to people who have a dick.

Honestly, I would really like it if women were the ones covered up and men were the ones parading around showing off their assets. Hmmm actually, I would prefer if everybody was parading around showing off their assets, I like being in almost nothing. ;)

So come on guys, get in those skintights again, skip the codpeice, that just looked funny and doesn't let us see if you are as big as we want. :catroar:
 
Even if it were true that men and women get paid equal salaries for similar positions (and that's an awful big if) there is still the fact that female dominated professions are undervalued. Nurses and teachers are doing what is still widely considered to be feminine work, and as a result are not thought of as a priority compared to more manly pursuits such as policemen or fireman (some argue hazard pay in these cases, but being a nurse is no less dangerous.)
Economists and the politicians who adore them love to say that we should let the market dictate salaries; that if a certain job is underpaid then people will choose not to take that job, and as a result salaries will rise to attract the necessary numbers. The wise and benevolent market will solve all. This fails to take into account (among other issues) the fact that a lot of women do not prioritise pay and are drawn to these nurturing professions despite low earning potential. Should they be punished for that?
I have a long track record on Lit for being the infidel of Capitalism's "Market = God" economic jihad.

I'm all for higher pay for teachers and nurses. Especially nurses.

BTW I wonder what male nurses earn compared to female nurses. Hmmm.
 
Hey men are so not smarter. :mad:

Loving actually wouldn't work, because you gotta look professional there really is no package showing, even if you pad you don't exactly have a bulge. A woman on the other hand, the professional look for a woman almost always encludes a skirt and a jacket that is not buttoned. :rolleyes:

Of course let's go down to an area I know well, waitresses and waiters, ever looked at what they wear? Waiters get pants and a shirt, and a waist apron, sometimes a vest. Waitresses get a short skirt, how short depends on if it is a bar club or restaurant, a waist apron and a shirt. Again depending on were you are the shirt is tight or not so tight, not to mention pulled up and tied under the breasts. :rolleyes:

Yes you can on occassion see waiters with their shirt pulled up and tied under the breasts, if you happen to wander into a gay bar. :cool:

I have and I liked seeing that OK, doesn't matter if he was about as fairy as you can find. :eek:

Men make more except when it comes down to what you look like in which case, breasts sell. Even in retail men make more, though I think alot of that has more to do with men get promotions and women are usually shoved out front to sell things than companies paying more to people who have a dick.

Honestly, I would really like it if women were the ones covered up and men were the ones parading around showing off their assets. Hmmm actually, I would prefer if everybody was parading around showing off their assets, I like being in almost nothing. ;)

So come on guys, get in those skintights again, skip the codpeice, that just looked funny and doesn't let us see if you are as big as we want. :catroar:

You're a fucking idiot.
 
Women, by contrast, are more likely to seek "careers that are more fulfilling, flexible and safe," Farrell writes. But the tradeoff is that "the pay can be lower because more people compete to be fulfilled, causing the supply to exceed the demand."

I read the article and it added that women also often gravitate to jobs where the work hours are more flexible so that they have the time for family responsibilities. Most of these jobs tend to pay a little less also.

Given similar circumstances (technical training, experience, etc) there should be equal pay, but it would be problematic to evolve away from the current market based system to where pay was "ordered" by some government agency so that school teachers, for example, got paid as much as lawyers or that gym teachers got paid as much as professional basketball players.
 
Of course let's go down to an area I know well, waitresses and waiters, ever looked at what they wear? Waiters get pants and a shirt, and a waist apron, sometimes a vest. Waitresses get a short skirt, how short depends on if it is a bar club or restaurant, a waist apron and a shirt. Again depending on were you are the shirt is tight or not so tight, not to mention pulled up and tied under the breasts. :rolleyes:

umm, wrong. i've known a lot of waitresses and none of them wore revealing clothes at work unless said work was hooters. a waitress would be a fucking moron to wear a short skirt in the kitchen. she'd get crap all over her legs and probably burn marks every other night at least.
 
Pointless I've worked in restaurants and bars, I was given a skirt, every other female who worked there was given a skirt unless they were in the kitchen.

I suppose if the waitress actually had to go into the kitchen they would get pants, but well I've never been to a place where the waiting staff goes into the kitchen, they go to a staging area where the food is passed to them.

But hey what do I know, I just worked in those places and been out eating in them. :rolleyes:

Kr well gee I suppose I could return the favor, but well more fun to simply say takes one to know one.

Anymore kernels of your oh so impossibly huge intellect to toss my way? :rolleyes:
 
Pointless I've worked in restaurants and bars, I was given a skirt, every other female who worked there was given a skirt unless they were in the kitchen.

I suppose if the waitress actually had to go into the kitchen they would get pants, but well I've never been to a place where the waiting staff goes into the kitchen, they go to a staging area where the food is passed to them.

But hey what do I know, I just worked in those places and been out eating in them. :rolleyes:

Kr well gee I suppose I could return the favor, but well more fun to simply say takes one to know one.

Anymore kernels of your oh so impossibly huge intellect to toss my way? :rolleyes:


yes, that one place you worked is the only restaurant in the whole world. i'm sorry. i forgot.
 
Back
Top