Would you pay a subscription to Literotica if it led to better service?

[SimonDoom]

If I had no choice but to pay a fee to use Literotica's services, I would consider it. But I think it's a terrible idea, and I think the idea of a two-tiered service where some get OK service for free and some get better service for money is an equally terrible idea.

Free service is a cornerstone of what Literotica is and does. It's a crucial part of why it's been so successful and why it gets more traffic and has more stories than other sites. It would compromise its basic mission and spoil what it does best if it started charging.

 

[caleb35]

As a reader? I have disposable income so I’d potentially be open to some site features being paywalled — but I wouldn’t like it and I’d reserve the right not to pay.

As an author? No. Fuck no. Absolutely not. Never pay someone else to publish you. If this site ever went to a pay model, I would expect and demand authors to be paid, not to pay.

EDIT: lastly, and as shitty as it sounds, no current problems with this site would justify moving to a subscription/fee model, nor would such a structure address any of the current concerns.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Nope- other than exposure, there is no ROI.

Exactly, there is no ROI now, but we should..... *checks notes* pay to continue to get no ROI...

 

[MrPixel]

Nope. I write content. For ni monetary compensation. That draws eyes.

Evidently I'm late to this party... any of that punch left?

No, to answer the question. Authors are the ones adding value, which, like Chloe says, attracts eyes to the paid services. It is in the site operators' interest to make the submission experience as painless as possible, within certain limits.

Granted, some writers are "needy", but IMO the onus is on them to work within the constraints, and take the time to, for instance, edit thoroughly before hitting the "submit" button.

YouTube pays its creators.

By making viewers pay, either in subscription fees, or obnoxious advertising dropped in the middle of content. Horrible model, IMO.

 

[Cacatua_Galerita]

I doubt I’d pay a subscription if there were free erotica publishing alternatives elsewhere but I would pay to download and perpetually own ebook versions of my favorite stories here.

I’m not sure a lack of money is the reason for ‘author’s issues’ with the site, but if more money was required then they could ask for donations (like Wikipedia does) or, my idea for monetizing the site beyond advertising…

The Pitch: Sell selected stories in ebook format.

Think about all the great stories that were launched on Literotica, refined by reader feedback, and then pulled from the site to monetize elsewhere. (Nudity is for the Birds is one example.) Why does Literotica let the cream of their catalog get skimmed off to other ebook sites rather than compete for the monetization of good stories?

So, if a story makes it onto the All Time Top List (or meets some other yet-to-be-defined criteria), then the author could be given the option to sell their story as a downloadable ebook. Income would be split between Literotica and the author.

Authors would not have to participate, e.g. if they didn’t want to share identifiable banking details with the site (or they could opt to donate their share to the site or a selected charity).

These stories would remain freely readable as Literotica online pages (with banner ads) but if a reader liked it enough they could purchase a downloadable copy they can own.

 

[SouthernCrossfire]

No. Our stories add value to Literotica and that content is one of the chief draws to the site. I expend a lot of time trying to produce quality works, so paying extra in the form of cash for premium services is a nonstarter for me.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

What online site pays for stories/poetry/audio?

https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/

--Annie

 

[caleb35]

https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/

--Annie

Clarkesworld is awesome; I do think if people are able to support it, they should.

 

[iwatchus]

Since there seems to be little appetite for paying the site, how much would the site have to pay to change your behaviors at all?

I'm imagining a small payment, maybe quarterly maybe a penny for every 1K views. Or maybe 1 cent per 100 views after the first 2K or something.

No way this is happening. It would push authors even more to LW and T/I, which would be bad for the site, risking starving categories like SF&F.
And the site would be incented to get a much better resolution of what a view is.

Not that this also means giving real name and address info for each of us (already true for contest winners) who want to get paid.

 

[Ian_Snow]

The big problem with this would probably be through the fee processors like Stripe, who aren't going to like a lot of the content offered here, like taboo/incest and nonhuman. Even on Medium, where smut authors can publish stories and paywall them if they choose, Stripe is hit-and-miss as far as what they will allow Medium to publish. It's generally not really the site's decision, but the credit card/debit card companies.

On top of that, the idea of being able to paywall some stories is also not going to fly with readers when they've viewed the stories for free for over twenty-five years. And if you're talking about authors paying for better service, I agree with @caleb35. Absolutely not. Authors should never pay to publish nor should they pay for indie awards (which isn't a problem here on Literotica and outside the scope of this discussion, but it is something to look out for if you plan on writing and publishing elsewhere, because it'll seem tempting).

 

[caleb35]

The big problem with this would probably be through the fee processors like Stripe, who aren't going to like a lot of the content offered here, like taboo/incest and nonhuman. Even on Medium, where smut authors can publish stories and paywall them if they choose, Stripe is hit-and-miss as far as what they will allow Medium to publish. It's generally not really the site's decision, but the credit card/debit card companies.

On top of that, the idea of being able to paywall some stories is also not going to fly with readers when they've viewed the stories for free for over twenty-five years. And if you're talking about authors paying for better service, I agree with @caleb35. Absolutely not. Authors should never pay to publish nor should they pay for indie awards (which isn't a problem here on Literotica and outside the scope of this discussion, but it is something to look out for if you plan on writing and publishing elsewhere, because it'll seem tempting).

Excellent points; I hadn't even been thinking about fee processors but you're completely right that would be yet another unwelcome complication.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Nothing comes to mind. Most of what people get wound up about here seem like annoyances to me, not problems worth paying a premium to avoid.

Bingo - that’s about where I sit as well.

 

[RejectReality]

Bringing on volunteers just invites trouble. Hiring people willing to work in the porn industry isn't exactly a pool of folks with immaculate reputation either. This place started as a way for Laurel to collect, read, and disseminate naughty stories. It is at its heart a Mom & Pop operation, and it's painfully obvious that's the way they intend it to stay. If there was ANY inclination to bring folks on in any capacity, it would have happened years ago when the queue exploded.

The two-tiered system just breeds resentment amidst the people who can't afford or refuse to pay. They have that at Lush, and that resentment is on display virtually every day.

 

[Voyeurkenneth]

The two-tiered system just breeds resentment amidst the people who can't afford or refuse to pay. They have that at Lush, and that resentment is on display virtually every day.

Reminds me of when Elon allowed Twitter/X users to have a blue checkmark if they paid for it. Blue checkmark users got their posts highlighted and boosted, if I recall. And of course, inevitably, the non-paying users began trashing the paying members for being desperate enough to pay the money in the first place.

As for paying to be an author here, I'll pass. Pay for play feels wrong.

 

[lovecraft68]

Bringing on volunteers just invites trouble. Hiring people willing to work in the porn industry isn't exactly a pool of folks with immaculate reputation either. This place started as a way for Laurel to collect, read, and disseminate naughty stories. It is at its heart a Mom & Pop operation, and it's painfully obvious that's the way they intend it to stay. If there was ANY inclination to bring folks on in any capacity, it would have happened years ago when the queue exploded.

The two-tiered system just breeds resentment amidst the people who can't afford or refuse to pay. They have that at Lush, and that resentment is on display virtually every day.

I'm not sure I'd consider this the porn industry, but aside from that, I don't think it would work.

All volunteers would be biased and all manner of games would be played with people's stories and posts which would cause more problems.

But as far as this thread goes, it's just another 'suggestion' by someone who used to fluff the site but is now disenchanted and just going to keep ragging on it and trying to 'improve' it for their benefit.

 

[Justplainjeff]

Do you actually have any idea how much they make? Or is this just anger over other issues coming through?

There are many income generating sites plus stores the profit from. When I had personal discussions with the united states attorney plus their state attorney general, I couldn't find what their income was.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Nope. I write content. For ni monetary compensation. That draws eyes.

That's my view too.

None of the "features" Emily has listed mean that much to me, and asking authors to pay? That's only going to reduce the number of authors - given that anecdotally, most of the content is submitted by folk who write maybe half a dozen stories, and that's their fantasy wish list, done.

 

[IWroteThis]

I doubt I’d pay a subscription if there were free erotica publishing alternatives elsewhere but I would pay to download and perpetually own ebook versions of my favorite stories here.

I’m not sure a lack of money is the reason for ‘author’s issues’ with the site, but if more money was required then they could ask for donations (like Wikipedia does) or, my idea for monetizing the site beyond advertising…

The Pitch: Sell selected stories in ebook format.

Think about all the great stories that were launched on Literotica, refined by reader feedback, and then pulled from the site to monetize elsewhere. (Nudity is for the Birds is one example.) Why does Literotica let the cream of their catalog get skimmed off to other ebook sites rather than compete for the monetization of good stories?

So, if a story makes it onto the All Time Top List (or meets some other yet-to-be-defined criteria), then the author could be given the option to sell their story as a downloadable ebook. Income would be split between Literotica and the author.

Authors would not have to participate, e.g. if they didn’t want to share identifiable banking details with the site (or they could opt to donate their share to the site or a selected charity).

These stories would remain freely readable as Literotica online pages (with banner ads) but if a reader liked it enough they could purchase a downloadable copy they can own.

They are struggling to maintain the current site, and you think they can just simply add an e-book packaging process and e-commerce site to it?

Also, what is removed from here and sold goes through an editing process in between. The e-book you buy is very rarely the exact same text you read here. Even when it is, things that Literotica doesn't support, like formatting and cover images, are added to the final product. So, Literotica really couldn't compete with the value-added sellers of the same story.

Third, you can already save a copy of anything that is freely distributed on the web without paying a dime. It's just legally limited to personal use. That's why browsers have a Save Page As option. If you want to view a story on Literotica in an e-book or PDF viewer instead of your standard browser, there's a tool that will allow you to do that. Some people claim such scraping is illegal, but it's not. If it was, all web browsers would be illegal, as those tools download the exact same content using the exact same protocols that the mainstream browsers do. They just process it differently for display.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

They are struggling to maintain the current site, and you think they can just simply add an e-book packaging process and e-commerce site to it?

Also, what is removed from here and sold goes through an editing process in between. The e-book you buy is very rarely the exact same text you read here. Even when it is, things that Literotica doesn't support, like formatting and cover images, are added to the final product. So, Literotica really couldn't compete with the value-added sellers of the same story.

Third, you can already save a copy of anything that is freely distributed on the web without paying a dime. It's just legally limited to personal use. That's why browsers have a Save Page As option. If you want to view a story on Literotica in an e-book or PDF viewer instead of your standard browser, there's a tool that will allow you to do that. Some people claim such scraping is illegal, but it's not. If it was, all web browsers would be illegal, as those tools download the exact same content using the exact same protocols that the mainstream browsers do. They just process it differently for display.

I suppose a tiny number of people would buy something like that, but I doubt it would be enough to justify the costs to produce it.
There's just no logical reason to pay for something you can get for free.

 

[Lumiere_Amie]

Pay for it? Nope

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

The argument that is always put to anyone with any issue with the site is, “It’s a free site, ask for a refund.” The obvious rejoinder is, “But they are running a business.”

But… putting out money where our mouths are, would you consider paying a subscription to Literotica if it led to better conditions for authors?

Not feasible. Say you want that mythical ability to statistically analyze votes that are completely subjective and only mean something the the authors ego so they can track exactly how many one-bombs they got to drop their story from a 4.5 to a 4.47 with 100 votes, removing the ever so precious red H.
How many hours of development time are involved. What is it going to cost Laurel and Manu to hire the additional manpower, or woman power to build it out to their standards given ramp up time on what is an aged and probably archaic tech stack?

Let's grab some numbers out of our ass since we're talking votes on Lit, and say it takes one dev two weeks, a pretty standard industry sprint. Going rates of good senior Devs are in the $75 an hour range where I live. That's $6000 for one feature. Throw in a month of ramp up for the new dev to get up to speed on the stack, it's 18K. 100 authors subscribed at $15 a month to pay for that one feature, and how many 'features' do you want?

TBH, If I'm them, I'm laughing at us for even discussing it.


EDIT: This is sarcasm and hyperbole, for those can't pick up on that.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

Not feasible. Say you want that mythical ability to statistically analyze votes that are completely subjective and only mean something the the authors ego so they can track exactly how many one-bombs they got to drop their story from a 4.5 to a 4.47 with 100 votes, removing the ever so precious red H.
How many hours of development time are involved. What is it going to cost Laurel and Manu to hire the additional manpower, or woman power to build it out to their standards given ramp up time on what is an aged and probably archaic tech stack?
...

Emily said that she was aware it wasn't going to happen. It was a hypothetical.

--Annie

 

[Paul_Chance]

Any change runs far deeper than a few changes. There is a lot of information we simply don’t have with Lit being a privately held company. According to ZoomInfo, which is usually in ball park, Lit has a valuation of 6 million dollars and between 11-50 employees.

What’s the ROI?

What’s the revenue stream(s)?

We can guess - but we simply don’t know. The difference between failure and success in any change management process is the difference between guessing and knowing.

LOL - and for anyone who thinks they have a better design, well hell, put your plan together, find some funding, and build the bigger, better Lit.

If you build it, they will come…

 

[Kelliezgirl]

LOL - and for anyone who thinks they have a better design, well hell, put your plan together, find some funding, and build the bigger, better Lit.

If you build it, they will come…

Exactly this, it's easy to sit on the sidelines and bitch. There are some supposedly ace programmers running around here, and some people who seem to think they have all the answers to running the perfect erotica site.
Put your big girl panties on and put some skin in the game.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Emily said that she was aware it wasn't going to happen. It was a hypothetical.

--Annie

And that's why my answer is sarcasm and hyperbole (as noted).

I don't understand why we as a group spend so much time discussing things that just don't matter instead of honing our craft and creating relationships.

Come on, we don't have any clue what's going on with the site, how much help Laurel and Manu have, what their priorities are, how complex some of the stuff they're doing might be, yet we sit out here in our echo chamber and complain like any of this shit matters. If my 90 stories weren't here, if I never wrote another one, it wouldn't matter to anyone. Sure a few might miss me, but that would be short lived.

I get tired of people complaining because the site isn't meeting their individual expectations, that they didn't get the treatment they expect, that laurel didn't respond to their 157th complaint about someone bombing their stories when the math shows it statically doesn't happen that often. And so what if it does. That stupid number isn't real, anyway. What are we, a bunch of narcissists, a bunch of toddlers who don't want to take a nap?

Grow up people. Write the stories you want to write and set them loose into the ether and move on to the next one.