Jumping into the fire ... Should the entire Non-Con category be eliminated?

[mirafrida]

After R / NC is banned, I'm looking forward to I/T being banned because many find it it icky; and also gay/lesbian being banned because a great many people think those orientations are antithetical to their divinely-mandated religious beliefs. Then maybe LW, because what is it with those guys? After that we can think about what categories to ban next.

 

[LittleCatMika]

And rules changed accordingly to disallow non-con in all forms?

No.

Thanks.

 

[Cagivagurl]

But you HAVE seen transgressive art. It's impossible to not have. Has it increased your desire to commit crime or other transgressive acts?

I have seen all kinds of art....
Some I liked, and some I didn't.
The fact you obviously disliked that particular movie is not something I feel like entering into.... was it transgressive???
I dunno, I haven't seen it....
Art is a separate discussion...
The thread is about whether the Non Con category should be deleted...
Cagivagurl

 

[Cagivagurl]

Read Page 5 again. They claimed that there's a lot of studies that prove their point. The problem is that's a lie. There has been far more studies that tell that there is no such link between people becoming more violent after being exposed to violence. It has been done on the politician's current scapegoat: videogames. Even scientists in the field are saying that this is a waste of time.

https://www.psypost.org/study-finds...games-to-increased-aggression-in-adolescents/
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2019-02-1...found-not-be-associated-adolescent-aggression
https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2020/03/violent-video-games-behavior
https://www.theguardian.com/games/2...-doesnt-lead-to-violent-behaviour-study-shows
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ame-violent-video-games-do-not-cause-violence
https://www.psychologicalscience.or...bsonline/video-game-mechanics-aggression.html
https://www.theesa.com/issues/in-game-violence/
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/933708
https://lovethynerd.com/the-myth-of...-like-among-us-dont-cause-real-life-violence/
https://www.brightcanary.io/do-video-games-cause-violence/

In your opinion it's a lie...
That doesn't make it a lie... Just that you think it is...
Remember, you speak only for yourself....
Statistical facts and statistics can be found al over the place to support either argument...
None more valuable than the other...

Cagivagurl

 

[KittyOfSteele]

In your opinion it's a lie...
That doesn't make it a lie... Just that you think it is...
Remember, you speak only for yourself....
Statistical facts and statistics can be found al over the place to support either argument...
None more valuable than the other...

Cagivagurl

I don't know what's worst: that you are equating research that has been done over and over again yielding the same results because "it's my opinion," or that you're trying to guilt trip me with actual doublethink.

You know what? This isn't the first time I wasted my time with you with your humble bragging posts. If you're using doublethink on me, I'll unperson you. Blocked!

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I have seen all kinds of art....
Some I liked, and some I didn't.
The fact you obviously disliked that particular movie is not something I feel like entering into.... was it transgressive???
I dunno, I haven't seen it....
Art is a separate discussion...
The thread is about whether the Non Con category should be deleted...
Cagivagurl

You can't even carry a coherent stance. Sorry, but I don't have time to debate with the mental skills of a 6 year old, other than someone with the mental skills of a 6 year old should not have a say in this debate.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Art is a separate discussion...
The thread is about whether the Non Con category should be deleted...

That post above just might be the dumbest post that I've ever seen on this forum for several reasons, but this nugget in particular has to be the absolute dumbest argument ever posted on lit (outside the politics board). Like srsly.

 

[calmlikeabomb]

Of course not. Because the number is far far far closer to zero than it is to 100. I never said that it wasn't zero.

The thing is, that if you want to extent your argument, society would be coated in soft rubber and we would all be wrapped in bubble wrap. We would live like the matrix and there would be no freedom at all. A world controlled for our safety. Nothing is allowed. The only thing to threaten us is the law itself. There would be no new ideas. There would be no imagination. Someone might come up with a transgressive thought. Crush it out.

We are going to ban media to ensure that there are no copy-cat crimes. Copy-cat crimes do happen, but they are super rare. For every 1 killer/rapist out there inspired by a movie, there are millions of people who saw the same movie and did not have the slightest inkling to act anything out.

So I ask the same question, which no one ever goes near answering. They just huff and puff and talk around it. Want to ban stuff? Where do you draw your line?

That's a fair response.

Personally, I think the guidelines Lit has laid down (the "victim" should enjoy it too) is enough in many cases. Like in many things, there wouldn't be a clear cut answer unless we go for an all out ban, but dismissing it out of hand as many simpletons are wont to do ("hurr durr i didntI Rape my mother") is just plain silly.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Getting rid of any current category goes against literotica's mission statement - "...a sex-positive pro-free speech story publishing website..."

With an asterisk.

 

[Cagivagurl]

You can't even carry a coherent stance. Sorry, but I don't have time to debate with the mental skills of a 6 year old, other than someone with the mental skills of a 6 year old should not have a say in this debate.

Mental skills of a six year old is common for you.
At least you would understand... Maybe not...

Actually, that's being a little harsh on the six year old...
They obviously have a higher intelligence than you...

Cagivagurl..

 

[NoTalentHack]

Do you want the rest of the site to look like Loving Wives, both in comments and ratings? Because this is a great way to do it.

Mostly, the NC stuff stays in NC/R. Not entirely, but the rare pieces outside of it typically get voted into the ground with nasty comments to go back there. Fair enough; there’s a category for it, after all.

Now, let’s take that category away.

First, maybe the stories start showing up in Fetish, but probably not. “No, it’s a dark romance, so it should go in Romance!” Or “it’s about as nonconsensual as an old Harlequin romance; what’s the problem with it being there?” Or maybe they end up in BDSM, which… yeah, you can imagine all of the screeching back and forth about what is/isn’t consensual looks like, because there are already stories that tiptoe past that line in the category, except now they become much more regular.

And, of course, that’s going to filter out to AH as well. Do you enjoy the constant cries of “what’s wrong with the readers in LW?” Well, buddy, let me tell you how much fun that’s going to be when we add regular “What’s wrong with Romance/BDSM/First Time/pick your favorite category here” discussions to the list when we remove NC/R from the category list but don’t change the guidelines.

“Well, let’s just change the guidelines, then! Make any kind of nonconsent forbidden!”

So… any story where a power imbalance exists which makes the real-life version of the scenario problematic? Okay, no more teacher/student or boss/subordinate. No doctor/patient or cop offering a chance to get out of a ticket. These are all forbidden in real life, things people get fired or put in jail over, after all.

No BDSM stories unless the characters discuss safe words and the like beforehand. No E/V stories about watching someone without them knowing, because that’s illegal and violating in real life, too.

Erotic Horror and a big chunk of Nonhuman and SF/F is gone, too, right? I mean, just because they’re stories about werewolves and vampires and orcs doesn’t mean consent matters any less, after all. They could make people want to act out the stories in real life.

I’ve seen this same argument made about violence in movies, RPGs, comic books, and videogames my entire life, and studied the history of it as well. It always boils down to “it makes me feel icky, and it should make you feel icky, too, and if it doesn’t, that just means you’re a bad person.” The only studies that ever support the thesis are cherry picked to hell and gone, with most of them finding either neutral or positive social effects in allowing “icky” content, while banning it almost always leads to oppression in other forms.

 

[Off_base]

"My hands were handcuffed to a steel bedhead, my feet to the base. I wriggled until the pain proved that was a wasted exercise. The harder I snatched and pulled on the cuffs. All I got for that effort was more pain, and now there was blood seeping from a cut the handcuffs opened on my wrists.

I lay back on the bed, my eyes taking in my surroundings. An old farmhouse was my first thought. Much like ones I'd seen time and again in movies. The windows, were big, the battens nailed across them did filter out some light. The room was shabby, flaking wallpaper, mold around the corners of the ceiling. It smelt musty, as if it hadn't been used in a very long time.

In the corner sat an old child's cot, again unused. Well not for a long time anyway.

I had far more urgent needs, if I didn't get to a toilet quickly, I was going to embarrass myself.

"Help, somebody please. Help, me." My screams grew in intensity, my bladder straining to hold.

The bedroom door burst open, and a large burly man burst in, the door slamming back against the wall. "Shut up, nobody can hear you."

"I need to go to the toilet."

He nodded, his dark eyes peering out from the narrow slit of his balaclava. He reached for his belt, and pulled off a set of keys. As I sat up, he pulled the sack over my head, and led me down what must have been a passageway.

My hands were handcuffed to a rail. The guy snarled loudly. "The toilets behind you. I'm closing the door. Call out when you're finished."

From "Kidnapped" by Cagivagirl

It seems abuse of women is no problem when it's in one of your stories.
And don't tell me this isn't sexual abuse and therfore doesn't count.
It's violence against a woman.
If we're worried that people will be so influenced by the fiction they read, that they will commit crimes, it appears that you're inspiring the kidnapping and captivity of women.

This story should be banned.

Off_base

 

[cw5523729]

"My hands were handcuffed to a steel bedhead, my feet to the base. I wriggled until the pain proved that was a wasted exercise. The harder I snatched and pulled on the cuffs. All I got for that effort was more pain, and now there was blood seeping from a cut the handcuffs opened on my wrists.

I lay back on the bed, my eyes taking in my surroundings. An old farmhouse was my first thought. Much like ones I'd seen time and again in movies. The windows, were big, the battens nailed across them did filter out some light. The room was shabby, flaking wallpaper, mold around the corners of the ceiling. It smelt musty, as if it hadn't been used in a very long time.

In the corner sat an old child's cot, again unused. Well not for a long time anyway.

I had far more urgent needs, if I didn't get to a toilet quickly, I was going to embarrass myself.

"Help, somebody please. Help, me." My screams grew in intensity, my bladder straining to hold.

The bedroom door burst open, and a large burly man burst in, the door slamming back against the wall. "Shut up, nobody can hear you."

"I need to go to the toilet."

He nodded, his dark eyes peering out from the narrow slit of his balaclava. He reached for his belt, and pulled off a set of keys. As I sat up, he pulled the sack over my head, and led me down what must have been a passageway.

My hands were handcuffed to a rail. The guy snarled loudly. "The toilets behind you. I'm closing the door. Call out when you're finished."

From "Kidnapped" by Cagivagirl

It seems abuse of women is no problem when it's in one of your stories.
And don't tell me this isn't sexual abuse and therfore doesn't count.
It's violence against a woman.
If we're worried that people will be so influenced by the fiction they read, that they will commit crimes, it appears that you're inspiring the kidnapping and captivity of women.

This story should be banned.

Off_base

Wow! Plow twist!

BRB, gotta grab some popcorn!

 

[cw5523729]

"My hands were handcuffed to a steel bedhead, my feet to the base. I wriggled until the pain proved that was a wasted exercise. The harder I snatched and pulled on the cuffs. All I got for that effort was more pain, and now there was blood seeping from a cut the handcuffs opened on my wrists.

I lay back on the bed, my eyes taking in my surroundings. An old farmhouse was my first thought. Much like ones I'd seen time and again in movies. The windows, were big, the battens nailed across them did filter out some light. The room was shabby, flaking wallpaper, mold around the corners of the ceiling. It smelt musty, as if it hadn't been used in a very long time.

In the corner sat an old child's cot, again unused. Well not for a long time anyway.

I had far more urgent needs, if I didn't get to a toilet quickly, I was going to embarrass myself.

"Help, somebody please. Help, me." My screams grew in intensity, my bladder straining to hold.

The bedroom door burst open, and a large burly man burst in, the door slamming back against the wall. "Shut up, nobody can hear you."

"I need to go to the toilet."

He nodded, his dark eyes peering out from the narrow slit of his balaclava. He reached for his belt, and pulled off a set of keys. As I sat up, he pulled the sack over my head, and led me down what must have been a passageway.

My hands were handcuffed to a rail. The guy snarled loudly. "The toilets behind you. I'm closing the door. Call out when you're finished."

From "Kidnapped" by Cagivagirl

It seems abuse of women is no problem when it's in one of your stories.
And don't tell me this isn't sexual abuse and therfore doesn't count.
It's violence against a woman.
If we're worried that people will be so influenced by the fiction they read, that they will commit crimes, it appears that you're inspiring the kidnapping and captivity of women.

This story should be banned.

Off_base

It's not abuse because the kidnapper was considerate enough to close the door while she peed. That's very traditional of him.

 

[lc69hunter]

I do not read it, because of the implied rape, which disgusts me, as I am a fan of loving consent stories of almost any kind. However, it does not raise to the point of being banned

 

[cw5523729]

When you go to 7-11 to get a slushie and have to wait 10 mins because they're filling Skip orders. You know how far society has fallen when people are TOO FUCKING LAZY TO GO TO 7-11!

Hey, if I needs me smokes, I needs me smokes. Ooo, ooo, give me one of dem scratchers too! No, not that one, the $50 one.

 

[SimonDoom]

Sci Fi should be banned because it presents an unrealistic idea about the laws of physics. A reader might be persuaded to jump off a building with home-made anti-gravity shoes.

 

[cw5523729]

Sci Fi should be banned because it presents an unrealistic idea about the laws of physics. A reader might be persuaded to jump off a building with home-made anti-gravity shoes.

Well now you tell me!

 

[SimonDoom]

The encouraging thing about this thread is that it already has 218 replies after two days and the overwhelming position is against banning a controversial category of stories.

The very idea is nonsensical and obviously not going to happen. It would be like the site cutting off one of its limbs. You don't operate a site that way. Even if you don't personally care for the category, its existence helps keep the site afloat.

 

[Lifestyle66]

My concern about excluding or banning a category of stories or further restricting writing about something is that it's censorship. And censorship is bad in that it HIDES a reality or "inconvenient truth."

"That's embarrassing, so we can't allow anyone to write about it! Just pretend it doesn't exist."

Sex is one of those "taboo" or embarrassing subjects to many people, which is why we're here on Literotica, with many of you never telling your real-world spouse or friends you're writing this crap! So, it's ironic that we're even discussing banning anything.

And censorship can take a darker turn when it's used to HIDE other things someone doesn't want you to know.

"The security forces we employed murdered an innocent family in a very brutal way, so no one can ever be allowed to learn of that." [Keeping state secrets from the public.]

When it comes to NC/R stories, LitE has the rule that the "victim" must receive some enjoyment from the NC sex. The concept presented by some here is that to write about a brutal rape would encourage others to do it. That's an ignorant idea, because at the same time they are forbidding writing a story which might make the reader feel what their victim would feel, the invasion of their body, humiliation, helplessness, and reoccurring nightmares. There is no pleasure in being such a victim!

If stories indeed "push" readers to act, banning these types of NC stories prevents the authors from pushing their readers AWAY from ever wanting to do it!

I wrote my "Aftermath..." stories and avoided writing the actual NC scene because it's not allowed. But I used such a scenario to show the impact rape has on a marriage when the narrow-minded husband couldn't accept his wife's changed needs. My reason for writing those Aftermath stories was to show the judgmental LW monogamy-only types that there may be reasons outside of their control for why a spouse would change over time. I posted those to LW last year, which goes to prove that banning the category doesn't solve any problem, because it WOULD send such stories elsewhere.

Stephen King's movies don't necessarily encourage people to become ax murders. They may show a borderline wacko why they SHOULDN'T want to do that!

 

[cw5523729]

Stephen King's movies don't necessarily encourage people to become ax murders. They may show a borderline wacko why they SHOULDN'T want to do that!

Exactly. I mean, I was planning on murdering my entire family with an ax until I watched The Shining and decided I didn't want to die in the snow. Phew! That was a close call for me.


Oh, and my family.


I guess.

 

[Off_base]

I do not read it, because of the implied rape, which disgusts me, as I am a fan of loving consent stories of almost any kind. However, it does not raise to the point of being banned

That's the whole point, isn't it?
Nothing should be banned.
It should just be properly categorized so those who don't want to read it, will be informed.

That's all I did here.
I shared some information so readers would be more informed.

 

[SimonDoom]

My concern about excluding or banning a category of stories or further restricting writing about something is that it's censorship. And censorship is bad in that it HIDES a reality or "inconvenient truth."

"That's embarrassing, so we can't allow anyone to write about it! Just pretend it doesn't exist."

Sex is one of those "taboo" or embarrassing subjects to many people, which is why we're here on Literotica, with many of you never telling your real-world spouse or friends you're writing this crap! So, it's ironic that we're even discussing banning anything.

And censorship can take a darker turn when it's used to HIDE other things someone doesn't want you to know.

"The security forces we employed murdered an innocent family in a very brutal way, so no one can ever be allowed to learn of that." [Keeping state secrets from the public.]

When it comes to NC/R stories, LitE has the rule that the "victim" must receive some enjoyment from the NC sex. The concept presented by some here is that to write about a brutal rape would encourage others to do it. That's an ignorant idea, because at the same time they are forbidding writing a story which might make the reader feel what their victim would feel, the invasion of their body, humiliation, helplessness, and reoccurring nightmares. There is no pleasure in being such a victim!

If stories indeed "push" readers to act, banning these types of NC stories prevents the authors from pushing their readers AWAY from ever wanting to do it!

I wrote my "Aftermath..." stories and avoided writing the actual NC scene because it's not allowed. But I used such a scenario to show the impact rape has on a marriage when the narrow-minded husband couldn't accept his wife's changed needs. My reason for writing those Aftermath stories was to show the judgmental LW monogamy-only types that there may be reasons outside of their control for why a spouse would change over time. I posted those to LW last year, which goes to prove that banning the category doesn't solve any problem, because it WOULD send such stories elsewhere.

Stephen King's movies don't necessarily encourage people to become ax murders. They may show a borderline wacko why they SHOULDN'T want to do that!

I agree with this, and I'd take it a step further. I think there is positive social good in the publication of things that people find offensive, or that people regard as subversive or dangerous.

I'm a big fan of South Park, or I used to be. It makes fun of everybody. It's outrageous. I think there's social value in shaking up people's deepmost beliefs and attachments, forcing us even to laugh a little at ourselves.

I also believe there is potential therapeutic and cathartic value in stories that deal with the dark corners of the human psyche. Why would Cagivagurl write a story about a victim experiencing something so awful? Probably to get something out of the system. There are probably readers out there who appreciate being able to read such stories.

Those who DON'T want to read them always have the choice of not reading them.

 

[SimonDoom]

Maybe we need a new category: "Rape porn written by authors who are anti-rape so it's a-ok"

This will happen when we also have the category "Mom-Son Incest stories written by men who don't REALLY have a thing for their moms but know they're not going to convince you otherwise."

 

[cw5523729]

"My hands were handcuffed to a steel bedhead, my feet to the base. I wriggled until the pain proved that was a wasted exercise. The harder I snatched and pulled on the cuffs. All I got for that effort was more pain, and now there was blood seeping from a cut the handcuffs opened on my wrists.

I lay back on the bed, my eyes taking in my surroundings. An old farmhouse was my first thought. Much like ones I'd seen time and again in movies. The windows, were big, the battens nailed across them did filter out some light. The room was shabby, flaking wallpaper, mold around the corners of the ceiling. It smelt musty, as if it hadn't been used in a very long time.

In the corner sat an old child's cot, again unused. Well not for a long time anyway.

I had far more urgent needs, if I didn't get to a toilet quickly, I was going to embarrass myself.

"Help, somebody please. Help, me." My screams grew in intensity, my bladder straining to hold.

The bedroom door burst open, and a large burly man burst in, the door slamming back against the wall. "Shut up, nobody can hear you."

"I need to go to the toilet."

He nodded, his dark eyes peering out from the narrow slit of his balaclava. He reached for his belt, and pulled off a set of keys. As I sat up, he pulled the sack over my head, and led me down what must have been a passageway.

My hands were handcuffed to a rail. The guy snarled loudly. "The toilets behind you. I'm closing the door. Call out when you're finished."

From "Kidnapped" by Cagivagirl

It seems abuse of women is no problem when it's in one of your stories.
And don't tell me this isn't sexual abuse and therfore doesn't count.
It's violence against a woman.
If we're worried that people will be so influenced by the fiction they read, that they will commit crimes, it appears that you're inspiring the kidnapping and captivity of women.

This story should be banned.

Off_base

Where would one find this story since I can't find it listed.


Asking for a friend.


Obviously.