Do You Ever Disappoint Readers On Purpose?

[iwatchus]

People do dumb things. Characters should too. And it can make for interesting plot points. But I will always at least partially resolve things at the end of a story. I had a lot of this in my original series, like a main supporting character becoming self destructive. Stabilized him in a bad place at the end of one story. Took five more stories I think to fully resolve it.

BTW, this was a completely unplanned plot driver within the overall story arc of the series.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Say you've portrayed your character as a decent, caring human that your readers adore. Would you intentionally let that character lose their integrity, at some point in the story, knowing it would disappoint readers?

To just have the character switch personalities, lose their integrity would usually be the kiss of death in a story. Readers hate it. Stay true to your character. If his actions take a dark turn or some kind of reversal, you need to justify it.
A completely happy ending is not necessary. But the ending of the story should have a justifiable resolution of sorts.

 

[iwatchus]

Say you've portrayed your character as a decent, caring human that your readers adore. Would you intentionally let that character lose their integrity, at some point in the story, knowing it would disappoint readers?

To be more specific to this question, the example I mentioned before was a character who is a very supportive and caring person who oculus occasionally be clueless. All of a sudden one morning he was being a serious dick to his fiancé and his long time best friends. (I had no idea why he was doing this and had not planned on him doing this. But it's what he did.) The three others then realized he was being self-destructive because he had been laid off a few days earlier and felt worthless and useless. The other three in their group were all soaring professionally, which made it hard.

 

[NaughteeDragon]

If you want to read a great story about a character making decisions that are consistent for the character but that the readers won’t like, I recommend Town Without Honor by TxTallTales. That story seriously fucked me up. I spent three days not being able to read anything else while I unpacked the why’s of that story. Great story and amazingly well written.

 

[NotWise]

I've done it both intentionally and inadvertently. When I knew I was doing it (Mom, Sex, Guns and Rock-n-Roll), I adjusted my expectations for the readers' reception and gave them a WIWAW essay to explain it. When I've done it inadvertently (e.g. Meaningless Sex), I made an effort to understand why.

 

[Off_base]

To just have the character switch personalities, lose their integrity would usually be the kiss of death in a story. Readers hate it. Stay true to your character. If his actions take a dark turn or some kind of reversal, you need to justify it.
A completely happy ending is not necessary. But the ending of the story should have a justifiable resolution of sorts.

Agreed, I don't think you could turn a character's integrity on a dime with no explanation. I think we all know good people who've made bad decisions and done uncharacteristically hurtful things to others, which is where I'm going with my thoughts.
Can a beloved character do things that will make readers admire them less, but still love the story?
Can a story with an emotional lead up to an inevitable connection, still be loved by readers if that connection falls apart at the end?
THBGato have an example earlier in the thread that they can, or at least a writer of her caliber can do it successfully.
I feel like my characters and endings can be predictable, which I don't think I want all the time.

 

[Off_base]

If you want to read a great story about a character making decisions that are consistent for the character but that the readers won’t like, I recommend Town Without Honor by TxTallTales. That story seriously fucked me up. I spent three days not being able to read anything else while I unpacked the why’s of that story. Great story and amazingly well written.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Anjali's Red Scarf is...not a sad ending, but not the happy ending that some readers wanted, because I wanted to tell a story about breaking up with someone one cares about.

I got several comments on Tammy, Jessica, Yuliya that I should have given Jessica and Tammy a HEA. I saw that coming, but I deliberately chose not to end the story that way. For me it was a far more satisfying ending the way I wrote it.

Still a happy ending though.

I wonder, did you get any complaints from readers who thought the title was advertising a threesome?

 

[BrokenSpokes]

Do you ever choose let a character make bad decisions or behave badly, when you know it's the opposite of what the reader wants?

Say you've portrayed your character as a decent, caring human that your readers adore. Would you intentionally let that character lose their integrity, at some point in the story, knowing it would disappoint readers?

Are you willing to write a sad ending when you know readers will crave a happy one?

I hate sad endings, but I'm also weary of predictable happy ones, so I'm exploring ideas on going against the grain.

Boy do I have a Journey for you. Viv makes some of the worst decisions. I had several readers message me to tell me they were noping out of that series due to Viv's bad decisions.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Boy do I have a Journey for you. Viv makes some of the worst decisions. I had several readers message me to tell me they were noping out of that series due to Viv's bad decisions.

And then there was the reader who got mad when Viv finally decided to stop making bad decisions.

 

[BrokenSpokes]

And then there was the reader who got mad when Viv finally decided to stop making bad decisions.

There’s always one

 

[Britva415]

I'm talking more in the context of taking a character or ending in a different direction than the reader would expect, not to get a rise from anyone.

I'm really struggling to find how "deliberately disappointing them" is not "getting a rise."

But more saliently: What would please or disappoint readers is unpredictable (to me), and wouldn't factor in to the plot choices which the story calls for.

If there are "expected outcomes" on their part, it's either because they're projecting (which I can't control or predict) or because I really did make an effort (and succeed) at setting an expectation for them, before rug-pulling.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I just realized from this thread how happy my last couple of stories have been.

That is not nearly so true of the one I'm writing now. And it does involve the heroine's decisions being ... fateful.

--Annie

 

[Off_base]

I'm really struggling to find how "deliberately disappointing them" is not "getting a rise."

But more saliently: What would please or disappoint readers is unpredictable (to me), and wouldn't factor in to the plot choices which the story calls for.

If there are "expected outcomes" on their part, it's either because they're projecting (which I can't control or predict) or because I really did make an effort (and succeed) at setting an expectation for them, before rug-pulling.

We all have our struggles.
I'm talking about making your characters deliberately flawed, because people are flawed. Or, writing a sad ending because sometimes situations or expected outcomes don't happen.
I'm a new author and trying to learn.
That's all my post is about.

 

[iwatchus]

We all have our struggles.
I'm talking about making your characters deliberately flawed, because people are flawed. Or, writing a sad ending because sometimes situations or expected outcomes don't happen.
I'm a new author and trying to learn.
That's all my post is about.

Having flaws in your characters is a positive, but it's not easy to write. I would never make a character flawed or do something to upset (or to please) a reader. I wan characters that are believable and we can empathize with.

If you want ones story to read with characters like this, I suggest @MelissaBaby Gold Dollar Girls. I think she has consistently the best characters out of any writer I read her regulalry. That story may get at what you are talking about, before the characters can be infuriating. I found the story somewhat sad, almost depressing, because of that.

From my writing, my best characters are in The Important Days, which is easily my best story (although still very flawed). There are three real characters. I think all three notable characters are likable and believable. All struggle to do the right thing at times. None of them have an easy path through the story. If you have a non-trivial story, (more than 10K words say), you want to have some degree of a character arc, where they learn and grow. And learning often grows out of failing. So don;t be afraid of having your characters make bad decisions, they become growth opportunities.

I hope this helps.

 

[Off_base]

Having flaws in your characters is a positive, but it's not easy to write. I would never make a character flawed or do something to upset (or to please) a reader. I wan characters that are believable and we can empathize with.

If you want ones story to read with characters like this, I suggest @MelissaBaby Gold Dollar Girls. I think she has consistently the best characters out of any writer I read her regulalry. That story may get at what you are talking about, before the characters can be infuriating. I found the story somewhat sad, almost depressing, because of that.

From my writing, my best characters are in The Important Days, which is easily my best story (although still very flawed). There are three real characters. I think all three notable characters are likable and believable. All struggle to do the right thing at times. None of them have an easy path through the story. If you have a non-trivial story, (more than 10K words say), you want to have some degree of a character arc, where they learn and grow. And learning often grows out of failing. So don;t be afraid of having your characters make bad decisions, they become growth opportunities.

I hope this helps.

Your reply makes sense, and also pointed out a misperception I've created with the wording of my post.
I'm not talking about deliberately trying to piss off any readers, or try to get a rise from anyone.
I'm referring to writing flawed characters or alternate endings, in spite of the fact that it would be anything other than the typical happy expected outcome that readers crave.
Would a credible flaw or sad ending make the reader dislike the entire story, or would it make them like it even more because it still provided an emotional reaction, even if that emotion is sadness or disappointment?

 

[iwatchus]

Your reply makes sense, and also pointed out a misperception I've created with the wording of my post.
I'm not talking about deliberately trying to piss off any readers, or try to get a rise from anyone.
I'm referring to writing flawed characters or alternate endings, in spite of the fact that it would be anything other than the typical happy expected outcome that readers crave.
Would a credible flaw or sad ending make the reader dislike the entire story, or would it make them like it even more because it still provided an emotional reaction, even if that emotion is sadness or disappointment?

I try to resolve the ending into a more or less happy one. Try reading The Important Days. It's long (27K), but I think you will see what I try to do. That's about as sad of an ending as I will write. But the flaws are very evident in especially the two main characters. They both make bad calls, for understandable reasons. It has a somewhat melancholy feel to much of it, but the ending is very upbeat.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I did a 750 tragedy.

Part of doing 750s is cutting out a lot of filler. I never even realized it at the time, but I never discussed much about the story teller or their ID.

Some of the comments opined that gender wasn't even mentioned. Some seemed disappointed, others seemed intrigued.

The story may have been too tough for some to take though.

 

[Fatdog25]

Do you ever choose let a character make bad decisions or behave badly, when you know it's the opposite of what the reader wants?

Say you've portrayed your character as a decent, caring human that your readers adore. Would you intentionally let that character lose their integrity, at some point in the story, knowing it would disappoint readers?

Are you willing to write a sad ending when you know readers will crave a happy one?

I hate sad endings, but I'm also weary of predictable happy ones, so I'm exploring ideas on going against the grain.

To answer the thread title ... no. I write what I would want to read and I don't deliberately set out to disappoint anyone.

To answer your third question ... yes. When I wrote A Christmas to Remember (T/I, 11.8K words), I made deliberate choices about the characters that made writing a happy ending impossible. I couldn't suspend my own disbelief enough to pull it off, instead writing an As Good As It's Gonna Get ending. For the story, it made more sense that way.

It came with a penalty. It is my lowest scoring T/I story and I recall losing a few followers at the time*. Depending on the category, your results may not equal mine.

I don't regret writing that story at all. I wanted to experiment with a different type of ending, I did, and I learned some things from it. If you're willing to accept adverse reaction from some of your readers, I would say go for it.

* It's entirely possible there was an issue with the follower counter updating in a timely manner, I was receiving new follower notifications but the count wasn't incrementing at the same rate. It's been a couple of years and my memory ain't what it used to be.

 

[Off_base]

I'm really struggling to find how "deliberately disappointing them" is not "getting a rise."

But more saliently: What would please or disappoint readers is unpredictable (to me), and wouldn't factor in to the plot choices which

If I'm reading this comment correctly, you write with no regard to reader perception, and have no idea what people want to read? You aren't in control of your reader's expected outcomes, when you've led them through every element of your story?

I'm struggling to understand the concept that it's completely random, how readers react to a plot. I'm not sure I would even publish stories, if that was my perception

 

[iwatchus]

If I'm reading this comment correctly, you write with no regard to reader perception, and have no idea what people want to read? You aren't in control of your reader's expected outcomes, when you've led them through every element of your story?

I'm struggling to understand the concept that it's completely random, how readers react to a plot. I'm not sure I would even publish stories, if that was my perception

I don't think it's random. But every story will have people that love it and people that hate it. The percentages will change, but the spectrum of responses will not. It;s one of the struggles we have as authors. No matter how well you do, someone will think you did it wrong. And be willing to tell you so in a comment. And because you might only hear from the extremes, it can feel like it is random.

 

[Off_base]

I don't think it's random. But every story will have people that love it and people that hate it. The percentages will change, but the spectrum of responses will not. It;s one of the struggles we have as authors. No matter how well you do, someone will think you did it wrong. And be willing to tell you so in a comment. And because you might only hear from the extremes, it can feel like it is random.

Right, everything is dependent on the skill of the writer.

 

[iwatchus]

Right, everything is dependent on the skill of the writer.

That is certainly a factor. But some books work and some don't, even for the same writer. For very successful, professional writers. Or the reader's tastes. I love Tolkien. I hate Frank Herbert. I love some Vonnegut, some I could take or leave.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I wouldn't call it 'on purpose' but definitely with foreknowledge that it will. Any LW surely and in Dreams of Him, knowing it wouldn't be a satisfying ending for most readers.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't do it with sad endings, but I do it sometimes with having characters get wilder and crazier with their kinks than some readers are comfortable with.

For example, the incest crowd can be surprisingly finicky and vanilla. It's OK for Mom to have sex with Son, but anal play . . . that's disgusting! I've had readers make comments like, "I enjoyed it until Mom became a skanky whore."

I don't do it to disappoint or tweak my readers; I do it because I personally like stories that have characters pushing boundaries and trying new things, even if they're over the top. But some readers react very negatively to that.