Another dumb question on spell checkers, AI flags, and self editing

[DevlinSkye]

To start with, I have never submitted anything on Lit and I am not aware of Lit's AI checking mechanism. My question is about the writing process.

I wrote about a 1k words in my story, and on a whim used as AI checker. It falgged my writing as a human. Then I used quillbot to check for grammar and allowed it to correct about 70 mistakes it had flagged. I then ran the corrected text through AI checker and bang... it was flagged RED as AI generated.

So, I now know quilbot is so easy and yet so bad. Drilling deeper, I noticed quilbot catches a lot more than an normal spell checker would. Like it correct prepositions. Suggest too many commas and weird ; to join sentences that I didn't quite understand. It also forces adding pronouces, weird tense corrections and so many other things that are beyond my undersanding. My grammer is weak, while I need half of this stuff, The rest simply makes my writing more mechanical.

While having editor is good, I am not pinning my hopes on finding one. I am looking for something in middle. A spell checker more advanced than found MS Word. (Someone how word spell cheking and corections have also gone bonkers recently.) but not something AI based like quilbot. If I really have to do it all manually then please help me with you process for self editing.

Another note, I preffer to write a chapter. Edit it, freeze it, and move towards next one. Somehow writing the whole thing and then coming back to editing dosen't feel right. I mean, I litteraly feel repulsed to read my own work after completion. Like once I write final word, I just want it to be gone from my screen, so I can move on to next project.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I suspect that anything beyond standard spell checks is likely to employ LLMs to some degree. I’d recommend using Word’s read aloud feature as a good way to catch issues.

 

[DevlinSkye]

I suspect that anything beyond standard spell checks is likely to employ LLMs to some degree. I’d recommend using Word’s read aloud feature as a good way to catch issues.

That seems to be the case. I just did a quick comapre again and noticed the correct all tries to make the text somhow more formal and kills the mood I want for the scene.

I had thought not allowing the spell checks to rewrite my sentses would be enough, but its definetly not.

Read out loud is really good idea. I guess I will stick it with it for now.

Thank you so much @EmilyMiller

For a while I thought my question would be ignored without a reply

 

[IWroteThis]

I always have multiple works in progress, so when I switch which one I'm working on, I often start by reading what I've already written to get back in the flow of the story. The longer I've been away from it, the more things I catch and correct as I do that.

Once I have finished the first draft, I'll try to do a read through every day until I stop catching things that need changed/fixed. At that point, I dump it into Word and run it through a Spelling and Grammar check. The key here is that I consider what Word suggests, but I don't just blindly accept everything. It has a lot of major faults where it is consistently wrong and even more issues with weird cases that Microsoft never foresaw. I accept maybe a third to half of the suggestions. I also end up rewriting some sections because I agree that I messed up, but Word's suggestion is often worse. The rest are either wrong or things I'm okay with leaving. I'm especially hesitant to accept changes to things inside quotation marks, as Word struggles with present tense dialogue in a past tense story.

Once I'm done arguing grammar with Word, I use the Read Aloud feature once or twice a day until I stop having to pause while I change things, or I find myself just changing the same things back and forth.

After that, I add any necessary HTML tags and submit the story.

I will say that I envy writers who can write a chapter and never have to touch it again, but that doesn't work with the way I write. My stories always evolve as I write them, so I constantly have to go back and rework previous sections. I actually included a long footnote on one story to talk about how a throwaway character I added during an editing pass evolved into a major character over subsequent editing passes, which of course required even more editing passes…

 

[SyleusSnow]

Quillbot explicitly states it uses "AI" to rewrite your text.

Stay away from any of these rewriting / rephrasing tools. Stick to ordinary spelling / grammar checkers like those built into MS Word, LibreOffice, Google Docs etc. and you should be okay.

Some grammar checkers offer to do rephrasing and rewriting too... don't use those features.

 

[Just4Sheets]

I had a story here flagged as AI after using a grammar checker. I went back to my prior version and did a compare between the two, and only fixed actual grammar, but in my own way. I resubmitted the story and it was published.

Based on that, I'd say the key is that you can have these "checkers" look over your work and point out issues, as long as you don't let them fix the issues.

J4S

 

[Britva415]

We see confirmation on a daily basis around here that bad spelling and pronouns actuation are no obstacle to getting published and getting positive ratings.

These tools clearly aren't necessary for success on Lit. They're flat out disadvantageous. I wouldn't ever be tempted to poke the bear by using them.

 

[IWroteThis]

I had a story here flagged as AI after using a grammar checker. I went back to my prior version and did a compare between the two, and only fixed actual grammar, but in my own way. I resubmitted the story and it was published.

Based on that, I'd say the key is that you can have these "checkers" look over your work and point out issues, as long as you don't let them fix the issues.

J4S

Out of curiosity, did you submit it as a Word document or copy and paste it into the text field? If you submitted the actual Word file, it would give the AI checker access to the change tracking, which would show that you allowed MS Word to rewrite those portions.

 

[SyleusSnow]

I had a story here flagged as AI after using a grammar checker. I went back to my prior version and did a compare between the two, and only fixed actual grammar, but in my own way. I resubmitted the story and it was published.

Based on that, I'd say the key is that you can have these "checkers" look over your work and point out issues, as long as you don't let them fix the issues.

So, I use ProWritingAid. It goes hard at identifying grammar errors and beyond: repeated sentence starts, pacing, overused words, sentence length variability and a lot more if you let it. (it can do rephrasing too, but I don't use that). I've never had a story rejected (yet).

AI writing detectors are garbage (and doubly so for whatever Literotica is using, it seems), but a grammar checker that fixes incorrect tense, subject-verb agreement singular to plural and even things like passive voice... the usual things grammar checkers have done for decades... should be fine. It's when they suggest improvements or outright rewriting to make text longer / shorter / more clear / more casual or replacing a colloquial word with something more formal (or vice versa) that the trouble starts.

It's impossible to know for sure what things set off Lit's specific AI detector, but in my experiments with the public ones, it seems basic grammar corrections are unlikely to result in text getting marked as "AI".

 

[IWroteThis]

We see confirmation on a daily basis around here that bad spelling and pronouns actuation are no obstacle to getting published and getting positive ratings.

These tools clearly aren't necessary for success on Lit. They're flat out disadvantageous. I wouldn't ever be tempted to poke the bear by using them.

Sure, I could crank out a lot more content if I was willing to publish rough draft garbage, but I'm not. I take pride in what I write, and I work to make it the best that it can be. What I need a grammar checker to point out today is something that I will learn and get right on my own in the future.

I doubt that I'll ever be a New York Times' best selling author, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to even try to write better.

 

[StillStunned]

So, I use ProWritingAid. It goes hard at identifying grammar errors and beyond: repeated sentence starts, pacing, overused words, sentence length variability and a lot more if you let it. (it can do rephrasing too, but I don't use that). I've never had a story rejected (yet).

AI writing detectors are garbage (and doubly so for whatever Literotica is using, it seems), but a grammar checker that fixes incorrect tense, subject-verb agreement singular to plural and even things like passive voice... the usual things grammar checkers have done for decades... should be fine. It's when they suggest improvements or outright rewriting to make text longer / shorter / more clear / more casual or replacing a colloquial word with something more formal (or vice versa) that the trouble starts.

Aren't these things that you pick yourself when you're editing your story? At the very least, Read Aloud will make you notice them.

 

[DevlinSkye]

I will say that I envy writers who can write a chapter and never have to touch it again, but that doesn't work with the way I write. My stories always evolve as I write them, so I constantly have to go back and rework previous sections. I actually included a long footnote on one story to talk about how a throwaway character I added during an editing pass evolved into a major character over subsequent editing passes, which of course required even more editing passes…

Oh, its not what you thihnk. I freeze the chapters so I wont go back and feedle with them... otheriwse i would never progress beyond two or three chapters..

Thank you so much everyone. This was really helpful.

Lesson learned, use the tool that will keep the version history or multiple copies. Like raw version, edit, and final etc... Also, I will stick with read loud out load rather than tools... Grammer lesson were torture in my childhood, and i havn't changed a bit since then

 

[SyleusSnow]

Aren't these things that you pick yourself when you're editing your story? At the very least, Read Aloud will make you notice them.

Sometimes. Often. But not always. I miss "passive voice" a lot, for example (and don't think it's as bad as the writing guides say).

And after reading, re-reading and proof listening for the bazillionth time, one tends to go snow blind (word blind?). It's an old truism that a writer can't edit their own work for a reason. Or put another way, writers are blind to their own mistakes. A second set of eyes, even those of a robot, help immensely. Grammar checkers are as essential as spelling checkers and word processors themselves, IMHO

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

To start with, I have never submitted anything on Lit and I am not aware of Lit's AI checking mechanism. My question is about the writing process.

I wrote about a 1k words in my story, and on a whim used as AI checker. It falgged my writing as a human. Then I used quillbot to check for grammar and allowed it to correct about 70 mistakes it had flagged. I then ran the corrected text through AI checker and bang... it was flagged RED as AI generated.

So, I now know quilbot is so easy and yet so bad. Drilling deeper, I noticed quilbot catches a lot more than an normal spell checker would. Like it correct prepositions. Suggest too many commas and weird ; to join sentences that I didn't quite understand. It also forces adding pronouces, weird tense corrections and so many other things that are beyond my undersanding. My grammer is weak, while I need half of this stuff, The rest simply makes my writing more mechanical.

While having editor is good, I am not pinning my hopes on finding one. I am looking for something in middle. A spell checker more advanced than found MS Word. (Someone how word spell cheking and corections have also gone bonkers recently.) but not something AI based like quilbot. If I really have to do it all manually then please help me with you process for self editing.

Another note, I preffer to write a chapter. Edit it, freeze it, and move towards next one. Somehow writing the whole thing and then coming back to editing dosen't feel right. I mean, I litteraly feel repulsed to read my own work after completion. Like once I write final word, I just want it to be gone from my screen, so I can move on to next project.

Using tools like Quilbot, or Grammarly, or ProWritingAide are not of themselves a problem. The issue is letting them make changes to your work. Using them to identify issues, then making judicious use of the information to make edits yourself, is a very different story. They can actually help teach you proper grammar. You just need to realize that they are primarily geared for professional writing, and we are writing fiction. The rules don't always apply to what we do. As other have mentioned, your ears are an excellent editing tool. I also use Word's Immersive Reader to find the things that just sound wrong. This is great for poor word choice or outright missing words.

We all have different methodologies for writing and editing. Do what works for you, and if involving grammar checks fits in that, just be careful not to let them write for you.

Good luck.

 

[Britva415]

I doubt that I'll ever be a New York Times' best selling author, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to even try to write better.

ok but

... fuck it, nevermind

 

[DevlinSkye]

I doubt that I'll ever be a New York Times' best selling author, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to even try to write better.

ok but

... fuck it, nevermind

I have a vivid imagination and I love sci-fi settings. There are so many ideas to write about... but my mind can't articulate what it can visualize. I mean I can write a whole chapter describing it, but how do I make a reader see what i imagine?

I can only imagine being George Orwell and Isaac Asimov, writing something that people had never even thought off... Or being Mary Shelley and writing Frankenstein... thats real orginal stuff... Atleast now we stand on their shoulders and use the readers understanding to build upon...

... ahh fuck it. Since I am struggling to write sci-fi, I will write sex...

 

[StillStunned]

I have a vivid imagination and I love sci-fi settings. There are so many ideas to write about... but my mind can't articulate what it can visualize. I mean I can write a whole chapter describing it, but how do I make a reader see what i imagine?

The trick is to realise that you can't make the reader see what's in your head. If you try, you wind up with endless descriptions that nobody will read. And even if they do read them, they'll usually have formed an image in their mind within the first few seconds anyway.

So you provide an outline first, or the basic form. Make it possible for the reader to relate what you're describing to something they're likely to know. Then provide a handful of details that stand out. You can add more later, but the key is not to keep anything back that would contradict the reader's first impression. Don't introduce a character and then wait half a chapter to mention their prominent nose. Don't paint a picture of a barren landscape and only reveal at the end that the earth is a dark grey. And so on.

Don't ask your reader to spend too much energy visualising your descriptions. That way you can reserve their attention for your story.

 

[iwatchus]

The trick is to realise that you can't make the reader see what's in your head. If you try, you wind up with endless descriptions that nobody will read. And even if they do read them, they'll usually have formed an image in their mind within the first few seconds anyway.

So you provide an outline first, or the basic form. Make it possible for the reader to relate what you're describing to something they're likely to know. Then provide a handful of details that stand out. You can add more later, but the key is not to keep anything back that would contradict the reader's first impression. Don't introduce a character and then wait half a chapter to mention their prominent nose. Don't paint a picture of a barren landscape and only reveal at the end that the earth is a dark grey. And so on.

Don't ask your reader to spend too much energy visualising your descriptions. That way you can reserve their attention for your story.

I generally really appreciate your advice. And I try to follow this specific advice, which you have given in a slightly different form previously. But I also know some readers like detailed descriptions of the people and the place. They cannot visualize without that description. It's a good thing that some authors do this and some provide what I would consider overwhelming details. It provides things for different kinds of readers.

 

[DevlinSkye]

The trick is to realise that you can't make the reader see what's in your head. If you try, you wind up with endless descriptions that nobody will read. And even if they do read them, they'll usually have formed an image in their mind within the first few seconds anyway.

So you provide an outline first, or the basic form. Make it possible for the reader to relate what you're describing to something they're likely to know. Then provide a handful of details that stand out. You can add more later, but the key is not to keep anything back that would contradict the reader's first impression. Don't introduce a character and then wait half a chapter to mention their prominent nose. Don't paint a picture of a barren landscape and only reveal at the end that the earth is a dark grey. And so on.

Don't ask your reader to spend too much energy visualising your descriptions. That way you can reserve their attention for your story.

I thought I did a good job to play along on the hopes of being an accompolished writer... guess I added too much details than focus on intended fun element... aah never mind.

 

[DevlinSkye]

So, I use ProWritingAid.

Thank you so much for this suggestion @SyleusSnow. It has a setting for the mood and while Quilbot showed 70+ corrections, it showed only 3. Atlest it desen't make me feel like an illiterate fool.
Also it forces me to not be lazy and use correct all magic button. I can evaluate what suits me and make correction manually. Thank's.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I don't know the specific breakpoint for human vs. AI, but you must be well north of 90% human to pass. I believe it must be in the range of 98% to 100% human on most checkers for you to pass muster here.

 

[DevlinSkye]

I don't know the specific breakpoint for human vs. AI, but you must be well north of 90% human to pass. I believe it must be in the range of 98% to 100% human on most checkers for you to pass muster here.

That wasn't much question. I dont really care about if it's acceptable for lit or not. Just wanted to understand the line where human writing gets contaminated by machine. A little or a lot dosent matter.

I think I found the swet spot at simply ignoring the oversmart machine. For the rest, I still need to finish at least one story for publishing

 

[MillieDynamite]

But the issue, for me as a writer, is that checkers seldom give human writing a 100% rating. So, you stand a good chance of rejection without any AI help at all.

That wasn't much question. I dont really care about if it's acceptable for lit or not. Just wanted to understand the line where human writing gets contaminated by machine. A little or a lot dosent matter.

I think I found the swet spot at simply ignoring the oversmart machine. For the rest, I still need to finish at least one story for publishing

 

[XerXesXu]

For a while I thought my question would be ignored without a reply

You can never underestimate the gullibility of the users of AH. Even I was surprised.

 

[SimonDoom]

I regularly use MS Word's grammar checkers, and I've used Grammarly. But I go through every single "mistake" found very carefully and think before I choose to make a correction. I often do not accept the proposed corrections, and I sometimes come up with my own alternative change on the spot. I feel like this helps keep the writing "my own."

About a year ago I DID have a story rejected because of AI, but after communicating with Laurel and Manu about it found out it was a glitch. So, sometimes it's just a glitch.