Interesting article on polyamory

[Comshaw]

Like it or no, accept it or no, it's finally driving its way into the consciousness of society. And not in a negative way. I say BRAVO!

Personally having been poly, and still feeling that in my soul, I have no idea why there is so much hate for it.

"You can only love one person at a time!" has been said ad nauseam. Maybe you (meaning the speaker of such) are limited by your capacity to love, but that doesn't mean everyone is so small and closed in their ability to love.

"Poly people get divorced more frequently than monogamous people!" Not according to the studies I've found. Poly people are much more likely to stay married to one person than a monogamous person.

One last thought, monogamous people who establish a relationship then move on to another in a year or two and do this over and over. Are they really monogamous, or are they a serial polyamorous person? Is it better to love more than one at the same time or love many by abandoning them one at a time? Food for thought.


https://www.wired.com/story/polyamory-popularity-dating-apps/


Comshaw

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Back when there was still a debate over gay marriage in the US the "What about polygamy?" argument was frequently used on the pro side of the argument would attack it as a slippery slope argument etc... how it was completely different and bad...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/polygamy-not-next-gay-marriage-119614/

Funny how that turned out.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Back when there was still a debate over gay marriage in the US the "What about polygamy?" argument was frequently used on the pro side of the argument would attack it as a slippery slope argument etc... how it was completely different and bad...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/polygamy-not-next-gay-marriage-119614/

Funny how that turned out.

Polyamory is way more boring than the antis think. So are homosexual relationships, for that matter. Discussion of housework, money, work and any kids is most of it. just like everyone else.

One 'gotcha' I get is 'but if you're polyamorous, you're breaking your marriage vows!'
'Our marriage vows went "Marriage is between two people. Do you take X to be your lawful wedded spouse?" "I do."'
'But... you had a commitment ceremony too!'
'Yes. Agreed to 'love, honour and cherish' each other. Not broken that, either.'

(head of hater explodes)

IME, a big advantage of poly is sometimes getting tea in the morning, because the spouse rarely does mornings.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Polyamory is way more boring than the antis think. So are homosexual relationships, for that matter. Discussion of housework, money, work and any kids is most of it. just like everyone else.

One 'gotcha' I get is 'but if you're polyamorous, you're breaking your marriage vows!'
'Our marriage vows went "Marriage is between two people. Do you take X to be your lawful wedded spouse?" "I do."'
'But... you had a commitment ceremony too!'
'Yes. Agreed to 'love, honour and cherish' each other. Not broken that, either.'

(head of hater explodes)

IME, a big advantage of poly is sometimes getting tea in the morning, because the spouse rarely does mornings.

The reality of most things is pretty boring.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Back when there was still a debate over gay marriage in the US the "What about polygamy?" argument was frequently used on the pro side of the argument would attack it as a slippery slope argument etc... how it was completely different and bad...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/polygamy-not-next-gay-marriage-119614/

Funny how that turned out.

So what about polygamy? Both that and the gay marriage debate raise questions about why, in a secular and multicultural society, we let governments dictate a one-size-fits-all contract based on one specific religion.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

So what about polygamy? Both that and the gay marriage debate raise questions about why, in a secular and multicultural society, we let governments dictate a one-size-fits-all contract based on one specific religion.

I don't have a dog in the fight, I just found it curious that 10 years ago, the side that was claiming to be the tolerant one was saying, "no, these are completely different, don't you dare claim they aren't." And now that all went out the window.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I don't have a dog in the fight, I just found it curious that 10 years ago, the side that was claiming to be the tolerant one was saying, "no, these are completely different, don't you dare claim they aren't." And now that all went out the window.

Honestly, this doesnt sound like much of a gotcha. Perhaps we had a different debate in the UK, but if you asked the average campaigner for gay marriage about polygamy in the 2000s, the response would simply have been "We're not campaigning for polygamy."

Asked about it now, the average liberal would say the right plays the same game when rolling back our rights, so...suckers!

And thats as far into politics as I'm going to go...

 

[Bayzapper10]

The reality of most things is pretty boring.

Or the expectation.

Haters think the worst but it isn’t like that, the true worst of it is how people change and grow, desire wanes, the “stress of life” eclipses the “joy” when one partner lets it and then poof, “polyamory” doesn’t work. And those of us who have direct experience know it’s no different than traditional, monogamous relationships.

 

[MrPixel]

Polyamory is way more boring than the antis think.

Funny. Current conversation in my polycule story is about replacing the rugs because "...some of them..." weren't drying off enough between the hot tub and the shower. The MMC is scolding the 2MC, "How soon we forget all the time you and I spent running the carpet cleaner trying to deal with wet carpets!"

Household management interaction within a polyamorous family can be a fruitful source of humor. Think "Friends", but with sex.

 

[ronde]

Polyamorous relationships have been around for a very long time. In many Native American cultures, it was normal for a woman who lost her husband to become the "second wife" of another man. I wouldn't characterize those relationships as necessarily "polyamorous". They were more of a survival strategy than anything else. A woman needed a man to provide food and protection and a man needed a woman to fulfill the traditional woman's roles in life. That didn't change until the original "marriage vows" were written by the Church of England as part of a description of the "correct way" to perform religious services. Those vows have no Biblical basis for applying only to one man and one woman, and were "made up" along with other directives to prevent the use of Latin Mass in England.

I think polyamorous relationships can work with the right people, and I really have no objection to them. People should be free to live their lives as they see fit as long as that relationship doesn't hurt anyone. The relationships were it doesn't work would probably not work well between one man and one woman either.

 

[EmmAgain]

This was really interesting. Thank you. While I can’t really wrap my head around polyamory - actually loving more than one person, as opposed to sleeping with more then one - I certainly respect those who’ve figured out how to do it.

 

[JGittes]

The reality of most things is pretty boring.

That's why we write stories, life with the boring parts removed.

Except for Proust, maybe.

 

[SimonDoom]

Back when there was still a debate over gay marriage in the US the "What about polygamy?" argument was frequently used on the pro side of the argument would attack it as a slippery slope argument etc... how it was completely different and bad...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/polygamy-not-next-gay-marriage-119614/

Funny how that turned out.

Polygamy and polyamory are two very different things, though, aren't they? I'm not personally involved in or familiar with either in practice, but that's my understanding. Polyamory is the practice of more than two people being in a loving/intimate/sexual relationship with one another. Polygamy is more than two people being married, sometimes via legal recognition, and sometimes in defiance of the law. The legal issues don't arise in polyamory; they do in polygamy.

Slippery slope arguments are easy to make, but they often don't hold up under careful scrutiny, because it turns out that the issues around recognizing the legitimacy of A turn out to be quite different from the issues around recognizing the legitimacy of B. That, it seems to me, is the case with gay marriage and polygamy. But even if one questions that it doesn't seem like the same slippery slope analysis applies to polyamory.

 

[WCSGarland]

Like it or no, accept it or no, it's finally driving its way into the consciousness of society. And not in a negative way. I say BRAVO!

Personally having been poly, and still feeling that in my soul, I have no idea why there is so much hate for it.

"You can only love one person at a time!" has been said ad nauseam. Maybe you (meaning the speaker of such) are limited by your capacity to love, but that doesn't mean everyone is so small and closed in their ability to love.

"Poly people get divorced more frequently than monogamous people!" Not according to the studies I've found. Poly people are much more likely to stay married to one person than a monogamous person.

One last thought, monogamous people who establish a relationship then move on to another in a year or two and do this over and over. Are they really monogamous, or are they a serial polyamorous person? Is it better to love more than one at the same time or love many by abandoning them one at a time? Food for thought.


https://www.wired.com/story/polyamory-popularity-dating-apps/


Comshaw

I think that is actually serial monogamy rather than serial polyamorous as you suggest. And yes, I would argue that they are monogamous, only serially so. Serial poly would be having multiple polygamous or polyamorous relationships in a row. And I'm not arguing that one is better than the other, just arguing that the terms being used mean something different that what is being suggested.

 

[TheLobster]

I have no idea why there is so much hate for [polyamory].

proceeds to call those who don't practice it "limited by their capacity to love", "small", and "closed"

Gee, I wonder!

 

[onehitwanda]

When I was younger, I thought that polyamory was simply an excuse card that people used to first create and then claim martyrdom for all the drama in their lives.

Once I grew up‡ I realised that it was actually just that the people I knew at that time were all world class drama queens, and that any -y or -ism that included anyone from that extended group was guaranteed to be a complete and unadulterated shit-fest and that it was best if I just stayed away and, occasionally, cheered for the particularly photogenic detonations.

These days, all I care about is:

1. are you happy
2. are you safe

and if the answers to those are both yes, then you do you and I will be there for you when you need me.

‡ fuck off I know I'm still not an adult but just throw me a fricking bone here.

 

[StillStunned]

It always strikes me as odd that "society" or "culture" or representations in media should be allowed to determine how people live their private lives. You love more than one person? Good for you! I'm sure there are pitfalls, but there are pitfalls in every relationship.

Just because novels and movies and TV shows present this ideal of falling in love with "the right one" and living happily ever after, why should everyone have to conform to that notion?

 

[onehitwanda]

why should everyone have to conform to that notion?

Because people are unimaginative and it is easier to throw rocks than have a polite discussion. Now stop moving so much, you're making it hard to aim.

 

[StillStunned]

Because people are unimaginative and it is easier to throw rocks than have a polite discussion. Now stop moving so much, you're making it hard to aim.

Only if you say "please".

 

[onehitwanda]

Only if you say "please".

That is not the safe word that we agreed on.

 

[StillStunned]

That is not the safe word that we agreed on.

Yes, but "I'll tell the Headmistress!" is too much of a mouthful.

 

[onehitwanda]

Yes, but "I'll tell the Headmistress!" is too much of a mouthful.

Don't blame me for your lack of forethought. I'm not the one who picked 'Matilda' as the theme.

 

[Erozetta]

One of the pitfalls of people discussing this is the assumption that loving or being in love with more than one person means having sex with more than one person.

While that's true for some, maybe even many, it's not true for all. You can be sexually monogamous while still loving and developing nonsexual relationships with many people. You can even express that love. As long as you're honest with yourself, you're unlikely to cross lines. The issues largely stem from trying to disregard or diminish the feelings that develop from interacting with people. If you get close to someone it's natural to develop a love for them. Whether that love is romantic, sexual, friendly, familial, or something else altogether is going to need to be figured out by the person feeling it. And if it is romantic or sexual, pretending it's not is going to lead to greater temptation. Accepting that it developed in an unexpected way is important to mitigate the temptation of "forbidden."

No one can control who they love or in what way that love develops. They can only control what they do with the understanding and knowledge of that love existing.

 

[NaughteeDragon]

Polygamy and polyamory are two very different things, though, aren't they? I'm not personally involved in or familiar with either in practice, but that's my understanding. Polyamory is the practice of more than two people being in a loving/intimate/sexual relationship with one another. Polygamy is more than two people being married, sometimes via legal recognition, and sometimes in defiance of the law. The legal issues don't arise in polyamory; they do in polygamy.

Polygamy and Bigamy are forms of polyamory. A “V” relationship where two partners are romantically involved with a third, but not each other is polygamy if the ends are women and the point is a man, bigamy if the inverse.
Polygamy is considered acceptable by fundamentalist because it has existed for thousands of years because of economic realities in agrarian societies. It’s talked about in several religious texts, and is therefore acceptable.
Polyamory as we think about it in a modern sense is possible because we have the economic freedom to make decisions about love and romance independent of economic necessity. This of course creates its own set of relationship problems as we now struggle with questions like “does this person meet my emotional needs and am I willing to accept this aspect of them that I don’t care for?” rather than questions like “is my anger about his cheating greater than my fear of having to survive without his income.”

 

[NuclearFairy]

Polygamy and Bigamy are forms of polyamory. A “V” relationship where two partners are romantically involved with a third, but not each other is polygamy if the ends are women and the point is a man, bigamy if the inverse.
Polygamy is considered acceptable by fundamentalist because it has existed for thousands of years because of economic realities in agrarian societies. It’s talked about in several religious texts, and is therefore acceptable.
Polyamory as we think about it in a modern sense is possible because we have the economic freedom to make decisions about love and romance independent of economic necessity. This of course creates its own set of relationship problems as we now struggle with questions like “does this person meet my emotional needs and am I willing to accept this aspect of them that I don’t care for?” rather than questions like “is my anger about his cheating greater than my fear of having to survive without his income.”

Umm, let me just pull up my notes from where I was researching this the other night. I'm not sure if it's different from what you're saying, or just phrased differently.

Polygamy is the blanket term for polygyny (one husband, multiple wives), polyandry (One wife, multiple husbands), and serial monogamy (remarriage due to death or divorce of a spouse). The first two could be bigamy but the third would not.

There is no special term for when a marriage involves more than one of both genders.

Polyamory is basically polygamy without marriage.

A king with one wife, and multiple concubines, would be in a monogamous marriage, but living a polyamorous life.

Again, not sure how that matches up with peoples views on the subject.