Ratings Bombed or Wrong Category?

[EmilyMiller]

Ratings Bombed or Wrong Category?​

Welcome,

This is gonna sound bitchy, but whatever.

Your entire contribution to AH is this thread, in which you are asking total strangers for their time and help. Total strangers who are probably busy with work, and writing, and beta reading for existing friends.

Might I suggest a slightly humbler approach. No one has to read your story. Have you read the stories of others on this thread? Have you helped them?

Take a more karma-centric approach and you will do fine.

And with any feedback on this thread, first consider the source. Not everyone with an opinion has anything to back it up. But some do.

Good luck with your writing.

 

[CreamyPeachyKeen]

My advice went longer than I'd planned.

Ha, well I appreciate the candidness, though I don't think you need to cast shade on authors who aren't here to defend themselves.

I'm not totally sure what you mean in a few places though. Like, sorry to be a noob but I don't know what BTB stands for.

I think you're just confirming that I'm right to recategorize, which I've already said I intend to do. I wish the category descriptions offered more information about reader expectations, because I've been focused mostly on the presence/absence of potential triggers. Your comment made me realize that LW readers are looking for more external/situational drama and moral struggles, where my story is more of an internal struggle (can she please her partner and learn to get excited about his kink, or are the emotional risks too high) embedded in a much more cozy and comforting setting. It's not immediately clear where else a story about a character hooking up with people outside her primary relationship should go, but framing it through the type of conflict makes it a little easier to see it's not what the LW crew wants.

I also continue to be surprised how much the lit community values high word counts. I don't really get it--I personally much prefer short chapters and short stories, and I skim heavily when I read on lit. Not surprising that I rarely find smut I like. My tastes seem to fly in defiance of lit norms. It does make it harder to write for an audience that likes very different things from me...but, again, my primary audience is actually my partner, who already likes what I'm writing.

It does also make me feel more confident that a different story I'm working on will probably be much better received by LW. This one is the oddball.

Cheers.

 

[CreamyPeachyKeen]

you are asking total strangers for their time and help. Total strangers who are probably busy with work, and writing, and beta reading for existing friends.

Well, yes, exactly. I'm busy too, and I'm trying to conserve my time and yours. If someone doesn't want to engage with what I'm saying, I'm asking you to please not! I know no one has to read my story, and no one has to help me. I appreciate the people here who have already offered help! And if you don't want to help me...just don't???

 

[EmilyMiller]

Well, yes, exactly. I'm busy too, and I'm trying to conserve my time and yours. If someone doesn't want to engage with what I'm saying, I'm asking you to please not! I know no one has to read my story, and no one has to help me. I appreciate the people here who have already offered help! And if you don't want to help me...just don't???

Yeah - not like that

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Yeah, that's what my instinct is, too. You can't advertise the patty and the bun to different people when what you have is a sandwich and what people want is a complete meal. Thanks for the confirmation.

I've definitely got a clear plan, and most of it's already written. But although that plan is solidly LW, it seems like it's going to be tough to get the LW community to trust that I know where I'm going, which would make another category a better fit.

Thank you for your thoughts, all! This has been really helpful and I appreciate everyone taking the time to comment.

If it's long enough for Novels/Novellas, I would put it there. Title, description, and tags will bring readers to it.

 

[iwatchus]

In addition to what I said above, I do not cross categories with my stories, nor do I like to see that in series I read. Chapters tend to get lost unless the reader decides to go looking for a chapter 3 and 4 when he happens to like chapter 5 and has no idea what happened.

If you have everything in a series, the next story works, even across categories. I use that almost exclusively to read a series.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

I suspect this story is going to have a pretty niche audience regardless because in many ways it's hotwife for female consumption rather than a pure male fantasy

I skimmed your story and my two cents is that it's in the most appropriate category. Danny wants to see his wife, Nina, with another man. Nina struggles with the idea even though it excites her. She'll eventually agree.

That's textbook Loving Wives: "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more." If I were a reader and my kink were hotwifing or cuckolding, I'd go to Loving Wives hoping to find stories exactly like yours.

However, another faction of Loving Wives readers hates cheating of any sort, even if the husband and wife are both into it. They'll bomb stories like yours unless the cheating spouse is punished in some way (or unless there is angst, guilt, and an earned reconciliation). You can search this forum and find tons of threads discussing this very topic.

If you continue to post chapters in Loving Wives, I suspect you'll reach the largest group of readers who are into stories like yours. However, the ratings for your story (and perhaps for your stories in other categories) will suffer. If that's a concern, then consider moving the work to Novels and Novellas, Fetish, or Exhibitionist and Voyeur.

Whatever you decide, best of luck with your future writing.

 

[alohadave]

I don't know what BTB stands for.

Burn the Bitch. It's a theme in LW where the female main character is broken by the end of the story.

Divorced, financially destitute, life ruined, etc. lt's a revenge fantasy that some in LW want to see happen to women who cheat on their husbands.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Ha, well I appreciate the candidness, though I don't think you need to cast shade on authors who aren't here to defend themselves.

I'm not totally sure what you mean in a few places though. Like, sorry to be a noob but I don't know what BTB stands for.

I've said those things many times. And the those authors are here. They read more on this forum that I do. Many lament their success in LW and refuse to accept the reasons.
BTB stands for 'burn the bitch' or 'burn the bastard'. It is retaliation in some form against the cheating spouse and lover. It can be as mild as a divorce and moving on to ruining his or her lives. It is usually seen as justice. Like I said earlier, a fair resolution considering the circumstances make for the best received LW stories.

As for high word counts, that is not necessarily so. What a reader wants is enough to get involved in the story and some major hook if not a complete story. They do not want to get piece-fed short scenes that takes weeks or months to complete (If ever).
Often with a multi-chaptered story the gap is so long, the reader has to go back and re-read past chapters to refresh his or her memory.
Unless your entire story is very long, I'd combine them to make the chapters double or even triple the length and cut them off at an appropriate spot. Readers do go back and change their first scores and some will not rate or comment at all until a story covers enough ground.
You will find the LW crowd are vocal. They will analyze your characters, and scenes. If they don't, you failed to engage them.
Views are often not enough to go by. Sometimes, readers go back just to read the comments others have made. Stories that hit a reader hard get many comments. If you don't believe me, go read some stories and read the comments. Today is a poor example. Not much in the way of comments.
Go to the 'popular' list of the past month and look at a sampling of the stories and the comments left.

AH is sometimes like preaching to the choir or a political rally. You get those who convince themselves what they say is true because somebody else said so. They repeat the rhetoric until it becomes fact. You will see a few who never post a story in LW tell you what a cesspool it is. Others who wrote one or two stories that were not well received blame it on 'trolls'.

You mentioned you a are reader and like to tell stories you want to read. As you go along here, you will see some authors admit they do not read. They write to be read or 'for themselves'. Which is fine. But then they complain if they fail to reach the audience they claim they have no interest in reaching.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Burn the Bitch. It's a theme in LW where the female main character is broken by the end of the story.

Divorced, financially destitute, life ruined, etc. lt's a revenge fantasy that some in LW want to see happen to women who cheat on their husbands.

Yeah, 'some' like to see the woman destroyed. In far more situations, the idea is to not let the cheaters (male or female) get away unscathed after destroying the marriage. Justice is the prevailing concern. It could be as mild as divorce and moving on. Many very sucessful stories do exactly that.

You proved another point I was trying to make. If you don't read the stories or write there, you will not be able to understand the dynamics. I don't write in Sci-fy even though I have a couple story ideas that might fit the bill. I don't think I could write a story that would work.
I have a lesbian domination story that I am currently back to work on. I'll post it, like the first 10 chapters, in Reluctance becasue of the humiliation factor. I don't think it will work well in the Lesbian category where loving sex between women seems to be the theme.

 

[Gamblnluck]

If it's long enough for Novels/Novellas, I would put it there. Title, description, and tags will bring readers to it.

Novels/novella is a catchall category for long stories. You will find gems there and rocks like any other category. It is one place where the title, description and author name will get the readers' attention. You might find a kinky bdsm story next to a romance.

 

[StillStunned]

I don't think it will work well in the Lesbian category where loving sex between women seems to be the theme.

This is from my recent Lesbian Sex story that's rated 4.73/245 from 18.3k views:

"Still, I needed her tongue, needed it to form a hard tip and flick at my clit, fast and regular, while my climax formed inside me. I needed it to guide me to the finish, to stoke the white fire and direct it to the point of no return, while I fuelled it from my excitement and anger and hatred and the sense of power, and half a lifetime of frustration, and Jessica was screaming, sobbing inside me, and my hands were in Tammy's hair, pulling her against me, ignoring her muffled protests and the delicious pain in my arse from her clawing fingers as I rode her face until the walls couldn't hold back the fire anymore and it burst free in a million explosions that shot through my body, along my arms and legs, up my spine and into my head, behind my eyes, out through my mouth in a choking, grunting scream that continued while the energy seeped out of me, melting away, sinking down lower and lower and further down, until I could breathe again and open my eyes, and I saw Tammy still looking up at me, face red and tears in her eyes."

There's room for other stories, not just loving sex.

 

[dirk2024]

The story is HERE. Please let me know if you think it's in the wrong category. I'll take other feedback if something is bothering you, but I'm not actively seeking it.

Thank you!

Hi Creamy, to qualify myself (and my limitations) I have been a member here for 18 months, reading mostly, but writing for the last 6. I don't normally read much in the way of cuckhold/cheating/humiliation stories as that's not my kink. Consequently, I don't spend a lot time in Loving Wives.

But I did find your story an enjoyable read. The imagery plus the thoughts of what is going on in the FMC's mind were engaging. I could see how all that would play out. I don't pretend to know what's going on in the minds of most LW readers, but your story deserves a high ranking in my opinion.

The only other category it might fit in would be Fetish . She's not cheating on him, so it's not really appropriate for LW, considering what stories I have read there.

 

[Gamblnluck]

That's textbook Loving Wives: "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more." If I were a reader and my kink were hotwifing or cuckolding, I'd go to Loving Wives hoping to find stories exactly like yours.

Yeah, I tend to agree, the "Happy, happy, let's go screw around and pretend (or even believe) their marriage is as strong as it once was is going to get about a mid-range 3. Most of the readers refuse to accept that casual sex outside of the marriage is not going to impact it. Even more so if that screwing around is all one-sided where it is the hotwife who goes out, has sex and then returns to hubby like she just used a dildo.
Too many of those same stories, have the lover moving in, the cuckold humiliated, and the wife happy because she is getting hers and the hubby gets whatever sex she deigns to let him have.

 

[Gamblnluck]

This is from my recent Lesbian Sex story that's rated 4.73/245 from 18.3k views:

"Still, I needed her tongue, needed it to form a hard tip and flick at my clit, fast and regular, while my climax formed inside me. I needed it to guide me to the finish, to stoke the white fire and direct it to the point of no return, while I fuelled it from my excitement and anger and hatred and the sense of power, and half a lifetime of frustration, and Jessica was screaming, sobbing inside me, and my hands were in Tammy's hair, pulling her against me, ignoring her muffled protests and the delicious pain in my arse from her clawing fingers as I rode her face until the walls couldn't hold back the fire anymore and it burst free in a million explosions that shot through my body, along my arms and legs, up my spine and into my head, behind my eyes, out through my mouth in a choking, grunting scream that continued while the energy seeped out of me, melting away, sinking down lower and lower and further down, until I could breathe again and open my eyes, and I saw Tammy still looking up at me, face red and tears in her eyes."

There's room for other stories, not just loving sex.

I was referring to my story, My Neighbor Rachael. It is a story about a thirty year old woman taken over by her eighteen year old neighbor. The mother not only approves but gets involved. Essentially, every character is female. I'm talking the overall story, not a single scene where possibly the participants entered willingly even if the action turned to domination.

 

[StillStunned]

I was referring to my story, My Neighbor Rachael. It is a story about a thirty year old woman taken over by her eighteen year old neighbor. The mother not only approves but gets involved. Essentially, every character is female. I'm talking the overall story, not a single scene where possibly the participants entered willingly even if the action turned to domination.

I quoted that paragraph as an example. The entire story (Tammy, Jessica, Yuliya) is about anger and bitterness. There's no sweet romance. And even so the LS readers seem to like it.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

I quoted that paragraph as an example. The entire story (Tammy, Jessica, Yuliya) is about anger and bitterness. There's no sweet romance. And even so the LS readers seem to like it.

I will give @Gamblnluck credit as your example touches on something else they said about the importance of engaging the readers. I've read many of your stories and have found all of them engaging, some too engaging not to ... Dammit, that's getting overdone.

 

[StillStunned]

some too engaging not to ... Dammit, that's getting overdone.

Let's assume you're referring to a sudden urge to make bad puns, shall we?

 

[Gamblnluck]

The entire story (Tammy, Jessica, Yuliya) is about anger and bitterness. There's no sweet romance. And even so the LS readers seem to like it.

I can see why. The over-riding theme seems to be a lesbian relationship. What I wrote was a story about humiliation and dominance and semi-forced submission. Which I was told would not have been well-received in that category despite it involving an all female cast. i pointed it out as reason to select the proper category, not try to force a square peg into a round hole and then complain.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Huh, I hadn't considered the fact that standalones and series or different types of series might perform better in different categories. Thanks for that insight.

Do you have thoughts on splitting chapters across multiple categories? It generally seems like a bad idea to me, but I am still learning.

IME, most readers have a small number of preferred categories and rarely read outside those categories. If you post Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 in different categories, many people who read Chapter 1 won't see Chapter 2 and many people who see Chapter 2 won't read it because they never read Chapter 1.

If it's a series of stand-alone episodes, go ahead and post each of them in the category that best fits the content, but if it's intended as one continuous story better to pick a single category.

Some caveats apply there: e.g. if I had a story which is mostly lesbian but the first chapter is het, and I decided to post to Lesbian Sex, I might add a note on chapter 1 letting readers know where it's going. Though it'd probably be better to rework it in that case; I'm a big fan of letting the opening of a story set expectations for what kind of story it is.

 

[lovecraft68]

Welcome,

This is gonna sound bitchy, but whatever.

Your entire contribution to AH is this thread, in which you are asking total strangers for their time and help. Total strangers who are probably busy with work, and writing, and beta reading for existing friends.

Might I suggest a slightly humbler approach. No one has to read your story. Have you read the stories of others on this thread? Have you helped them?

Take a more karma-centric approach and you will do fine.

And with any feedback on this thread, first consider the source. Not everyone with an opinion has anything to back it up. But some do.

Good luck with your writing.

This is rude and uncalled for. They asked a question and have been receptive to people's responses. What's the problem?

 

[Gamblnluck]

IME, most readers have a small number of preferred categories and rarely read outside those categories. If you post Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 in different categories, many people who read Chapter 1 won't see Chapter 2 and many people who see Chapter 2 won't read it because they never read Chapter 1.

If it's a series of stand-alone episodes, go ahead and post each of them in the category that best fits the content, but if it's intended as one continuous story better to pick a single category.

Some caveats apply there: e.g. if I had a story which is mostly lesbian but the first chapter is het, and I decided to post to Lesbian Sex, I might add a note on chapter 1 letting readers know where it's going. Though it'd probably be better to rework it in that case; I'm a big fan of letting the opening of a story set expectations for what kind of story it is.

This goes back to making the chapters long enough to get the full feel for the story. Very short chapters do not work.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Ha!! Honestly, that's a good argument for shifting it into novellas. It sounds like it's much more quiet over there but the people who see it are more likely to be receptive. This essentially sounds like an argument to abandon the hierarchy of "least squick" and instead pursue the greatest peace of mind. For unpaid writing, that's probably a smart gambit!

Well, some folk seem to like posting there. God knows why, IMHO. To me, if we”re putting out the effort to write a tale, we should have some chance of not getting flamed. So, if N&N is okay for you, then that’s a good choice. Good luck!s

 

[WCSGarland]

Hi all,

Not new to writing, but new to lit and still trying to get a sense of the reader culture. After sharing a few short and sweet standalone stories of under 2k words, I finally posted the first part of a longer slowburn series. Right now its ratings are in the twos--ouch. My best guess is that I'm either getting ratings bombed by some diehard anons who hate Loving Wives (we've all seen that happen!) OR that actual fans of Loving Wives are mad that she hasn't fucked someone besides her husband yet (which I say up front happens a few chapters in...). I could try shifting it to the novels or romance categories, but the main topic being explored is his desire to see her fuck other men and her journey of pursuing it.

The story is HERE. Please let me know if you think it's in the wrong category. I'll take other feedback if something is bothering you, but I'm not actively seeking it.

Thank you!

EDIT: I'd especially love if anyone with experience in the novels and novellas category weighed in! Since my story is chaptered (not episodic), has a character arc, and encompasses a few categories I'm wondering if that might be the better fit, but I'm having trouble getting a sense for what kinds of stories do well there.

My story Another Anniversary Dinner faired quite well in Loving Wives considering it didn't contain any sex.

 

[RejectReality]

Normally, N&N should be a last resort for long stories that cross too many genres to fit anywhere else. You're going to get more engagement from virtually any other category. N&N is a grab-bag, so only folks who exclusively are looking for long stuff hang out there on the regular. You don't have the kind of fans you do in other categories.

If you're bothered by low scores and nasty commentary, it might be a solution for a cheating/cuckold type story, but you're absolutely sacrificing a vast number of eyes for a higher score and less vitriol. Even in the poisonous swamp that is LW, there are a lot of readers who aren't part of that loud and nasty contingent, and they may very well make their way to the rest of your work, and keep their eyes open for new stuff.

Unfortunately, some of the nasty contingent might as well. It depends on how deeply you offended them by "polluting their category with your filth".

At this point, you've already dived into the shark-filled waters. Any damage of that nature that could be done has been done. If the rest of the story has a sex outside the relationship theme, then you may as well put on your chain mail, weather the feeding frenzy, and enjoy all the new eyes you're getting exposed to every time you put out a new chapter.

Anything that doesn't break into a second Lit page ( over 3500 or so words ) tends to suffer as well. It's a combination of people wanting more, and more people finishing/voting, meaning more people leave like it, didn't love it scores. If you can find logical breaks in the story that are longer submissions, they'll likely perform better.