How do you figure your characters have "depth" and are not just wish fulfillment / in service of the fantasy?

[WeShallUnclench]

To get this out of the way, jokes about the "depth" of your characters (or how they are "larger" than life, etc.) are appreciated but also not mandatory.

I have now repeatedly seen the criticism here that many if not most stories were just quick dopamine buttons, wish fulfillment with no real plot beyond "wouldn't it be awesome if this happened to me?" and no characterization beyond "wouldn't it be really hot to meet someone this sexy?".

So with that in mind, where do you feel your characters fall, on that metric? Do you have concerns that your characters aren't fleshed out enough? What measures, if any, do you take to ensure they don't fall into that category?

Personally, I like to use the test "Would I read a story with those characters in it, if there wasn't any sex or any kink?"

Of course the trouble is that yes, all my characters pass that test for me, but also, it's hard to disconnect my kinks from general story themes. For example, dominant and/or deceitful characters prone to weird power plays are entertaining to me in every type of media, it's hard to tell where kink ends and "platonic" interest begins.
Another problem is that I am a simple creature perfectly entertained with cartoony characters, indeed usually more so than with "serious, realistic" ones. So that I like my characters either way is no guarantee you wouldn't just write them off as very trope-y and/or shallow.

 

[Statius]

Interesting post. For me it depends on the story. I have several that are just meant to be strokers so the characters are simply 'built' to appeal to the widest possible audience. Other stories I try to make them as down to earth and regular as possible, everyday people so to speak. I do think most writers here add sex appeal to some extent though while doing so. There has to be a mix. Both aspects of the character have to be believable. The real everyday, and the sex appeal. If that makes sense.

 

[StillStunned]

I think a good erotic story combines three elements: plot, character and sex. But not every story is driven by each of those elements to the same degree.

So you can have a sex-driven story where the plot is little more than the reasons for the sex, and the characters are just something to hang the genitals on, so to speak. But you might also have a sex-driven story with intense character, but very little plot, or with an exciting plot but flat characters. And so on.

In the end, precisely how present each element is depends on what story you want to tell. And how you tell it is probably more important than trying to add something that the story doesn't need.

 

[iwatchus]

Some of my stories are like my yellow faced furry friend above describes, a plot that exists merely to support the sex. But in others, the sex is to support the plot and characters. Certainly that was true for my nude day entry so they can be well received

 

[SimonDoom]

I'd say that in most of my stories my characters fall somewhere in the middle. Unlike you, I have no interest in asking whether my characters would be interesting outside the scope of a sex story. My stories are about sex, broadly defined. I want to titillate and arouse the reader (the primary reader being myself). So everything is written with that in mind. I'm not interesting in fleshing out character personalities except to the extent they serve the needs of the story.

That said, I personally find stories more erotic when I feel like I'm reading about real people as opposed to cartoon characters. So I like to give my characters JUST ENOUGH personality traits that they seem real enough. Judging from reader reaction, most of the time, for most of my readers, and for me, I strike the right balance. But it doesn't work for everyone.

 

[NotWise]

My stories are about people. They have sex. I give the characters interests other than sex. I give them history and conflicts. They interact with their setting.

I'm not sure that plot really contributes much to character, but I'd be happy to hear other opinions. For me, characters build plot, rather than the other way around. I've taken to writing fairly flimsy plots so that interest in my stories depends mostly on the characters.

I used to work more on the plot and include antagonists in the cast of characters. I should probably make more use of both. They create a richer story.

 

[WeShallUnclench]

I used to work more on the plot and include antagonists in the cast of characters. I should probably make more use of both. They create a richer story.

I rather enjoy contrasting characters. I suppose their conflict doesn't always count as "plot", but i feel at the very least the dynamic adds something to the characters themselves.

 

[HordHolm]

I have two sets of stories, rather in the manner of @iwatchus with one set focussed on the sex, with a second group using (hopefully) hot sex to support an actual story with characters doing more than fuck. In those stories, particularly, the characters need depth (though I try to add a bit more than 'bits' for the characters in my strokers).

 

[NotWise]

I rather enjoy contrasting characters. I suppose their conflict doesn't always count as "plot", but i feel at the very least the dynamic adds something to the characters themselves.

Contrasting characters aren't always antagonistic. I use contrasting side characters as foils to help develop the main characters. I wrote a throw-away side character into my summer lovin' story then kept her around as a foil for the female protagonist. She became a story-telling tool and ended up with a little side story of her own.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Another problem is that I am a simple creature perfectly entertained with cartoony characters, indeed usually more so than with "serious, realistic" ones. So that I like my characters either way is no guarantee you wouldn't just write them off as very trope-y and/or shallow.

Characters can be "not realistic" and still have a lot of depth. There are plenty of shallow people in real life, too.

I've no interest in truly realistic characters or people. They bore me to death. I make my characters more passionate, more idealistic, regardless of whether they are heroes or villains.
To be honest, most of the fiction does the same, whether we see it or not. And thank god it is so.

 

[SimonDoom]

For me, characters build plot, rather than the other way around.

I'm a plot-first writer. I come up with a broad idea, like "What if a Teddy Bear mysteriously showed up on a woman's door step, and it turns out it wants to fuck her." Then I create a plot outline, then I build the character to serve the needs of the story. I don't ever write a story along the lines of, "Here's a neat character. Let's see what they do."

BUT, I also think that if the story is done right, plot and character will blend seamlessly. The character serves the plot and the plot appears to emerge organically from the character. I think a good writer can get at this blend from either direction, but I think achieving that organic blend is the goal.

 

[THBGato]

I have now repeatedly seen the criticism here that many if not most stories were just quick dopamine buttons, wish fulfillment with no real plot beyond "wouldn't it be awesome if this happened to me?" and no characterization beyond "wouldn't it be really hot to meet someone this sexy?".

So with that in mind, where do you feel your characters fall, on that metric? Do you have concerns that your characters aren't fleshed out enough? What measures, if any, do you take to ensure they don't fall into that category?

I've tried to stop/minimise describing what my characters look like. I think that goes someway to making it less about wish fulfillment and jilling material. My characters are not supermodels.

I've also gone quite far into characters' emotional history - some of mine have suffered sexual abuse, eating disorders, or have complex mental health issues. These aren't things that the majority of people would wish on themselves or their loved ones, so I'd hope I'm getting away from the "wouldn't it be really hot to meet someone this sexy?" thing.

Many of my meet-cutes are from real-life (not always my life, to be clear), so they are less "wouldn't it be awesome if this happened to me?" and more "it was awesome when this happened".

 

[caleb35]

I'm going to be pedantic and go the route of asking what is, is. What do you mean by depth? Are you talking about believable characters? Characters who are more than just obvious author wish fulfillment? Characters that are fully three-dimensional and can be debated in lit crit courses?

For me, plot comes first. That's always been the way with me, I come up with the plot and my characters then serve to flesh out and fulfill that plot. That doesn't necessarily mean that the characters are cardboard (though in some of my lesser works, they may come across as such). The characters have their own motivations, desires, wants, regrets. I try to use all of that to move the plot along. What does character #1 want? How do they get it? What is the consequence of their actions or indecision? I usually feel that if my characters are believable, if that in reading this you can say, yeah, I can this happening, then the character has depth. If the character tells ME what's happening, if their actions and decisions have me change the plot (even a little), then I feel I've succeeded in writing a fully-developed character.

 

[caleb35]

I've tried to stop/minimise describing what my characters look like. I think that goes someway to making it less about wish fulfillment and jilling material. My characters are not supermodels.

I've also gone quite far into characters' emotional history - some of mine have suffered sexual abuse, eating disorders, or have complex mental health issues. These aren't things that the majority of people would wish on themselves or their loved ones, so I'd hope I'm getting away from the "wouldn't it be really hot to meet someone this sexy?" thing.

Many of my meet-cutes are from real-life (not always my life, to be clear), so they are less "wouldn't it be awesome if this happened to me?" and more "it was awesome when this happened".

Agreed completely on not describing what characters look like. If I do it, it's the main character noting what other characters look like, but I rarely ever describe what my central viewpoint character looks like, because why would I? They're the viewpoint character, I'm seeing the story through them.

 

[big_cane_sugar]

To get this out of the way, jokes about the "depth" of your characters (or how they are "larger" than life, etc.) are appreciated but also not mandatory.

I have now repeatedly seen the criticism here that many if not most stories were just quick dopamine buttons, wish fulfillment with no real plot beyond "wouldn't it be awesome if this happened to me?" and no characterization beyond "wouldn't it be really hot to meet someone this sexy?".

So with that in mind, where do you feel your characters fall, on that metric? Do you have concerns that your characters aren't fleshed out enough? What measures, if any, do you take to ensure they don't fall into that category?

Personally, I like to use the test "Would I read a story with those characters in it, if there wasn't any sex or any kink?"

Of course the trouble is that yes, all my characters pass that test for me, but also, it's hard to disconnect my kinks from general story themes. For example, dominant and/or deceitful characters prone to weird power plays are entertaining to me in every type of media, it's hard to tell where kink ends and "platonic" interest begins.
Another problem is that I am a simple creature perfectly entertained with cartoony characters, indeed usually more so than with "serious, realistic" ones. So that I like my characters either way is no guarantee you wouldn't just write them off as very trope-y and/or shallow.

I wish I could find these stories because this is what I come for here come here for.

 

[big_cane_sugar]

My aims have changed over time. I used to aim for as little sex as the literature required, now I am for as little literature as the sex requires.

 

[WeShallUnclench]

Characters can be "not realistic" and still have a lot of depth. There are plenty of shallow people in real life, too.

I've no interest in truly realistic characters or people. They bore me to death. I make my characters more passionate, more idealistic, regardless of whether they are heroes or villains.
To be honest, most of the fiction does the same, whether we see it or not. And thank god it is so.

One sentiment I read more than once and that baffles me is when someone implies their idea of a "good" character was whether or not their characteristics would make for an attractive and respectable tinder profile. Like they literally want you to design an ideal date for them that they could introduce to their friends and families, and filter out the "crazies". They must be confident and even-tempered and have a stable middle class (or prestigious) job. They must have white teeth and good posture und fashionable shoes. I am exaggerating a little but it's moments like those where I really sense I am looking at someone with very different priorities from my own.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

One sentiment I read more than once and that baffles me is when someone implies their idea of a "good" character was whether or not their characteristics would make for an attractive and respectable tinder profile. Like they literally want you to design an ideal date for them that they could introduce to their friends and families, and filter out the "crazies". They must be confident and even-tempered and have a stable middle class (or prestigious) job. They must have white teeth and good posture und fashionable shoes. I am exaggerating a little but it's moments like those where I really sense I am looking at someone with very different priorities from my own.

I can't say that I've heard anything along the lines that you mentioned. And it all sounds absurd to me. Those exact characteristics would make such a character "bad" in my eyes. Boring as fuck too.

 

[WeShallUnclench]

BUT, I also think that if the story is done right, plot and character will blend seamlessly. The character serves the plot and the plot appears to emerge organically from the character. I think a good writer can get at this blend from either direction, but I think achieving that organic blend is the goal.

THAT, for sure

 

[ChuckWolf]

Most of my male character protagonists are just cyphers to be preyed upon by the more interesting and thought out female characters.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I tend to just write, rather than think, ‘how can I give this MC depth?’ But my readers (or those who comment) say that I give even characters in my full-on fuckfests little touches which help people to connect with them and care about what happens to them.

Personally I feel the sex is hotter if you connect with the people fucking.

I’ve had so many people say something along the lines of me writing smut with heart and humanity, that I guess it must be true.

Even my more humorous stories tend to be more observational comedy rather than setting up gags (well maybe ball gags).

 

[iwatchus]

For me, depth means allowing the characters to have the full range of human experience and emotions. Yes that includes sex and lust so it goes well in erotica. None of us are just walking genitalia. (Although some men seem to think with theirs and act like women are.)

Your characters should be free to experience anger and sorrow and joy and love. And just quiet satisfaction. Or disappointment. But only when the situation creates that. You need to understand what makes them tick and experience all those things. Including what turns them on. And turns them off.

They should also have flaws. If you are writing short strokers, you won't have time to exhibit all these. But you should understand them for your characters. Make them be real people in your head and I think your writing will show that depth.

 

[karina_jayde]

"Would I read a story with those characters in it, if there wasn't any sex or any kink?"

That's the primary question I also ask.

Another odd one that works for me is 'Would I play this character in an RPG?'

I do a lot of tabletop gaming, and while certainly my characters wouldn't fit exactly into the stuff I usually play, if they could maybe be tweaked a bit to work as a tabletop character with their own desires, ambitions, and personality to roleplay at the table, they have enough depth for my own purposes.

 

[StillStunned]

I've tried to stop/minimise describing what my characters look like. I think that goes someway to making it less about wish fulfillment and jilling material. My characters are not supermodels.

My personal feeling is that readers tend to form a basic idea of a character's appearance within a split second of the character being mentioned. They'll be willing to mould that idea to fit some details provided by the author, but don't ask them to change it too much because that takes more effort on their part, and either they'll ignore it or they'll have two conflicting pictures in their head.

So if I mention "a pale-skinned redhead in a green dress, coming towards me with a smile that promised either pleasure or trouble", most readers will have an image in their mind by the time they've finished reading that sentence. I could add "a golden band around her arm, with a green stone I was pretty sure was tsavorite", or "a dusting of freckles that fell from her face to her chest", and that would enhance the reader's image.

But if I said "piercing hazel eyes above a straight nose that led down to full red lips over a firm chin" and "tight ringlets that fell to just below her shoulders", or whatever, those details might conflict with the reader's picture. It's either wasted information, or it's resented.

So my policy is to present enough information in the initial sentence for the reader to form that first image, and never add anything later that conflicts with the first impression.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

There’s a distinction to be made between the ‘depth’ of a character and whether a character is interesting.

I’d much rather read about a briefly sketched character that was interesting than a really boring person whose inner desires and feelings were throughly explored.

Certainly if you’re writing strokers, there’s a tremendous skill in doing a thumbnail sketch of a character who makes that short little story properly hot and alluring.