Taking the next step

[SilkyVine]

In my humblest of opinions; my writing sucks.

Not because I'm a bad writer, but because Im a lazy writer.

My one existing story has a good rating and a good chunk of views and I'm kicking myself because I know I could have written a story 10x better

My process was this, "bang some vulgar wank material onto the page, read it once, make minor edits, spell check and then post"

I think its a fun story, but it's messy, jumbled and ends on a horrible beat "and she thought of all the fun they were going to have next" kind of vibe (yuck)

That was two years ago and imo, I've improved a lot. I've written a followup and hopefully a more satisfying conclusion. As well as two short stories 2k and 5k words that are all pending.

For these stories I used a new process. "Outline, Write, husband beta reads and edits (he kinda sucks too), make changes, spell check and post"

My question is this;

What more can I do to improve my process?

When you more experienced writers were starting out with smut what "aha!" moments did you have that elevated your process and work to to the next level?

What do you know now, that you wish someone had told you early on your journey?

I'm thinking I should at the very least start using lits volunteer editor program.

 

[WCSGarland]

One way to improve your process is to find a beta reader other than husband who is not biased in your favor. That's not to say that you should not have your husband beta read, but sometimes the more eyes before you submit it for publish will help you find things about your story that could be improved.

I suggest beta reader because editing as a volunteer editor is a lot of work and I think they can suffer from burn out. But you need to keep an open mind. If you can find a volunteer editor who has the time and is willing, and if that works better for you than finding another beta reader, the by all means, do so.

 

[alohadave]

What more can I do to improve my process?

Write more.

The more you write, the more you figure out how to write and you find your style. So write more.

 

[SilkyVine]

One way to improve your process is to find a beta reader other than husband who is not biased in your favor. That's not to say that you should not have your husband beta read, but sometimes the more eyes before you submit it for publish will help you find things about your story that could be improved.

I suggest beta reader because editing as a volunteer editor is a lot of work and I think they can suffer from burn out. But you need to keep an open mind. If you can find a volunteer editor who has the time and is willing, and if that works better for you than finding another beta reader, the by all means, do so.

Whats the best method of finding beta readers?

 

[SilkyVine]

Write more.

The more you write, the more you figure out how to write and you find your style. So write more.

This is good advice.

I've been learning this (the half dozen abandoned stories in my google docs says so )

 

[WCSGarland]

One way is to post a message in Editor's Forum, or in Story Feedback Forum. Also read around, and if you find an author who's stories you like, you can ask them directly.

 

[WaxPhilosophic]

Read. Not the smut here on this site, but actual books. Classics if you're up for it. Find a writing style you like. Figure out why you like it. Try to emulate parts of that style in your own writing. Now spice it up.

 

[PennameWombat]

<snip>

My question is this;

What more can I do to improve my process?

Per other advice, read more and definitely write more. There is an adage which has caused some amount of discussion here, that "your first million words are practice." (You may have heard of Malcolm Gladwell's assertion that perfecting a skill takes "ten thousand hours of practice.") Whatever the numbers, it takes practice.

When you more experienced writers were starting out with smut what "aha!" moments did you have that elevated your process and work to to the next level?

Define "next level." And also debate whether or not I'm one who knows what it even is. But one thing I do is I don't think of it as "smut." They're stories first, have some level of sex included. For me, a couple of my higher rated stories have next to no actual sex. One would barely tick over to R (using US movie ratings, G, PG, PG-13, R, NC.)

I rarely do an actual outline. But I do normally write an up-front synopsis, two to four paragraphs, which highlight the characters and key plot. I also at this point have various "shared universes" where I set stories. That allows me to 'assume' a few things about setting. They're generally stand-alone stories, so I don't assume readers have read all of the related stories, but I like to include a few references (aka, "easter eggs") that folks who've done so can pick up on. Had a couple of comments where readers enjoyed that.

What do you know now, that you wish someone had told you early on your journey?

I'm thinking I should at the very least start using lits volunteer editor program.

I don't use editors nor beta readers for stories here. I have some training in editing, so I'm good at picking up the grammar, structural, and similar issues. Not that I always find all of them, as again, no one's paying me to post here. Finding beta readers if I were to do a novel for commercial release is hard enough, I don't have the energy to bother here. But I always let a 'finished' story sit a couple of days before going back to it for final editing before posting.

But you could look at a creative writing workshop or short course. Although I'd done tech writing and software for years, I found a workshop was quite helpful in understanding structural aspects for fiction (and, again, I see stories here as stories first, with 'smut' added in to taste per story.) I lean toward speculative fiction (science fiction, fantasy, so here, the SF&F, NonHuman, Erotic Horror, even many of my stories in other Categories have some of this.) So when I found an opportunity to take a six week (one night a week) workshop with a published science fiction author, I took it. I'd tried a writing group that wasn't focused on SF&F, and that... was not so useful.

 

[NotWise]

My intro here was similar to yours. I published a few stories and realized that I'd have to put more work into my writing to get to a better level. I started planning the stories, doing more editing passes, engaging beta readers, etc.

FWIW, I found that I often didn't use good input from my beta readers, so I've stopped wasting their time.

Since then, I've tried to identify weaknesses in my work and searched out writing guidance on line. It doesn't make a difference that the guidance isn't for erotica. Fiction is fiction.

The biggest success has been with story endings. I'm always annoyed when I end a story and the readers comment that they want more, or they want the next chapter. Ending the story in a way that gives the reader a better sense of completion reduced those comments. Nothing will ever eliminate them completely.

 

[gunhilltrain]

This is good advice.

I've been learning this (the half dozen abandoned stories in my google docs says so )

According to your profile, you already have the right attitude.

"My tastes lean toward things with lots of passion and a touch of danger: I want stories where emotions get messy, boundaries get blurred, and at the end of the day desire wins out over logic and reason. You won’t often find neat, happy endings in my writing. I prefer tales where not everyone gets what they want and the characters indulge in their temptations."

That seems like a very good way to approach it. It's not merely smut, but in a non-judgmental definition I'd call what you're aiming for "explicit." Read a lot of all fiction of all types (Faulkner's advice) to see how others do it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I found that participating in the Story Feedback forum was good for helping me develop. Not so much for the feedback others gave me on my stories (though that was appreciated to) but because giving feedback to other authors forced me to unpack my reactions to their stories and get beyond "I liked it" or "I didn't like it" to a better understanding of why I had that reaction, and what might have improved it for me.

Once I can see those things in other people's stories, and understand how they affect my reaction as a reader, it gets easier for me to think about what I'm doing in my own stories.

Of course you can do this with any story, but having to articulate my thoughts about a story to a real live author, in a way that's intended to be useful for them, does something for me that I don't get so easily from dissecting the latest bestseller.

 

[SimonDoom]

1. Write. Write a lot. Write critically and mindfully. This is number 1, by far. Just keep doing it, but think about what you are doing.
2. Read other authors' stories. Learn from the way others do it. Read carefully and critically. Don't imitate others' styles, but think about what makes them work and learn from them.
3. If you feel you are a bit weak on any mechanical aspect of writing, like grammar, then work on it. Read the various how-to guides here. Read grammar and style guides. Use them when you are uncertain about something.
4. Invite feedback from authors that you like and with whom you have rapport. Build relationships so they're more likely to do this for you.

 

[Actingup]

It's hard to beat Simon's summary above, but I do think that it's also important to have fun and be prepared to make mistakes. Also, it's awesome that your husband is part of the process, and hopefully that's something that is helpful in your own relationship even if he sucks at editing.

 

[SilkyVine]

I found that participating in the Story Feedback forum was good for helping me develop. Not so much for the feedback others gave me on my stories (though that was appreciated to) but because giving feedback to other authors forced me to unpack my reactions to their stories and get beyond "I liked it" or "I didn't like it" to a better understanding of why I had that reaction, and what might have improved it for me.

Once I can see those things in other people's stories, and understand how they affect my reaction as a reader, it gets easier for me to think about what I'm doing in my own stories.

Of course you can do this with any story, but having to articulate my thoughts about a story to a real live author, in a way that's intended to be useful for them, does something for me that I don't get so easily from dissecting the latest bestseller.

Hmm, I really like this. I don't know the correct phrase but it's kind of "learning by teaching"

I've found with other skills in life I've improved simply by trying to teach others how to do something

This seems like a good excercise to get myself thinking more critically about writing.

 

[SilkyVine]

It's hard to beat Simon's summary above, but I do think that it's also important to have fun and be prepared to make mistakes. Also, it's awesome that your husband is part of the process, and hopefully that's something that is helpful in your own relationship even if he sucks at editing.

Some really awesome advice from a lot of people so far, it's really nice to see

Haha I say he sucks but he does try to remain unbiased and isn't afraid of hurting my feelings. He does read a lot but we have reeeeally different tastes. So ill often hear "the writing here is good but it's not my cup of tea" when he provides critique.

 

[alohadave]

I don't know the correct phrase but it's kind of "learning by teaching"

You never really understand something until you can teach it to others.

There are various versions of the quote, but I've always found it to be true.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Another direction entirely: Write it and then put it away for a long time, even a year. When you open it up, corrections will fill your mind.

 

[big_cane_sugar]

1. Write. Write a lot. Write critically and mindfully. This is number 1, by far. Just keep doing it, but think about what you are doing.
2. Read other authors' stories. Learn from the way others do it. Read carefully and critically. Don't imitate others' styles, but think about what makes them work and learn from them.
3. If you feel you are a bit weak on any mechanical aspect of writing, like grammar, then work on it. Read the various how-to guides here. Read grammar and style guides. Use them when you are uncertain about something.
4. Invite feedback from authors that you like and with whom you have rapport. Build relationships so they're more likely to do this for you.

That's all great advice. I'd slightly rephrase #2 as "read mindfully." Think carefully about whether you like what a writer has done, and why or why not (as specifically as possible), and whether you'd like to incorporate something like that into your own style. Look back at your own writing in the same way to think about what you want to cultivate and what you want to change.

 

[dirk2024]

Hi Silky,

Have you seen this thread here: https://forum.literotica.com/threads/self-editing-for-authors.1634588/

And articles here: https://www.literotica.com/c/adult-how-to
Now many don't pertain to writing, so you'll need to carefully check them out, but here are a few that I've found helpful.


One other thing that I just did today for a story I am working on. I have Word and there is a function in there called "Read Aloud", where a the software gives voice to your words. Hearing them will point out some things like word choices, sentence run-ons, etc, etc. For example, one thing I found today was I typed the word "site" in the story when I wanted the word "sight". Spell checker didn't point it out. But reading it while Read Aloud was speaking its way through my story made it stand out.

If you don't have Word, I've heard there are other free options out there you could probably find with a google search.

And, as you've seen in this thread, there is a lot of good advice and helpful people to be found here.

Dirk

 

[EmilyMiller]

Taking the next step​

I’ve always been a voracious reader, so this part is discounted. Even so writing is going to help you more than reading. At least until you get to a certain level of proficiency.

You can’t get better at riding a bike by watching YT vids of people cycling. Write. Write. Write!

Try different things, challenge yourself. Self-analyze if you can, and try to do better next time.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

In my humblest of opinions; my writing sucks.

Not because I'm a bad writer, but because Im a lazy writer.

My one existing story has a good rating and a good chunk of views and I'm kicking myself because I know I could have written a story 10x better

My process was this, "bang some vulgar wank material onto the page, read it once, make minor edits, spell check and then post"

I think its a fun story, but it's messy, jumbled and ends on a horrible beat "and she thought of all the fun they were going to have next" kind of vibe (yuck)

That was two years ago and imo, I've improved a lot. I've written a followup and hopefully a more satisfying conclusion. As well as two short stories 2k and 5k words that are all pending.

For these stories I used a new process. "Outline, Write, husband beta reads and edits (he kinda sucks too), make changes, spell check and post"

My question is this;

What more can I do to improve my process?

When you more experienced writers were starting out with smut what "aha!" moments did you have that elevated your process and work to to the next level?

What do you know now, that you wish someone had told you early on your journey?

I'm thinking I should at the very least start using lits volunteer editor program.

I've evolved a process over the past six years that seems to work well for me. I'm honestly amazed some of my earlier stories got published as bad as the grammar and formatting is. First, I am what is called a pantser, or a gardener. I follow my story as it exposes itself to me. That means I really don't have much of a plan.

What I do as a process though is to read each story I pick to work on from the beginning every time I open it. As I read, I look for things I'd do differently. When I get a story to a point where I think it may be complete, I move it to a pending folder and continue to revisit it until I can read through it three times without changing anything. I've had one or two stories in this limbo for over a year. Once I get it there, it's ready to publish. For the first time in a few years, I don't have anything in my pending folder, but I still have dozens of stories in my WIP folder.

The process though, remains the same, and it works for me. I'm not suggesting you should copy me, but perhaps there's something i do you can use.
I've tried beta readers with minimal results. One or two have provided value. Another rewrote my story to the point that I didn't recognize it. Not the feedback I was looking for. I guess you could say, I'm my own beta reader now.

Best advice I've ever been give comes from a Master Class by Dan Brown. He wrote The Davinci Code. Set aside time to write every day and just keep writing.

Good luck.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'd slightly rephrase #2 as "read mindfully."

100%. That word perfectly captures what I think is the right attitude to take.

 

[Britva415]

Whats the best method of finding beta readers?

Be your own beta reader.

You don't need someone else to tell you what you already believe/perceive/judge in your own writing:

my writing sucks.

[...]

I know I could have written a story 10x better

You didn't learn this from a beta reader. You figured it out (well, decided/judged) for yourself.

My process was this, "bang some vulgar wank material onto the page, read it once, make minor edits, spell check and then post"

So, here's what to change:

Instead of looking for a quickie gratification by publishing as soon as you've punched the keys till you got to the end, sit on it. Put it away. Don't look at it until you've written other stuff - or nothing at all - for at least a few weeks.

You need this time for your brain to kind of forget what you wrote. You can't effectively proofread, much less revise, you can't read your own work critically until you have gotten some distance. Ironically, publishing seems to achieve that, for some reason, and you notice a lot of blemishes right away once you know it's where other people can see it. But you can avoid that by not publishing it, because the other things that achieve the necessary distance are time and writing other stuff.

Give it, let's say, six weeks. Then you're no longer in the mode of writing that story, thinking about that story, remembering the details of that story, being invested in that story. It's far easier to pull it out and review it critically after a good long while and some other projects in between. It's easier to spot all the blemishes - typographical or structural. It's easier to make revisions because your investment in the words you wrote before has diminished. It will be easier to bring yourself to re-invest in a new draft which will be better than the first one, instead of feeling excessively good about it and wanting to call it done and publish it pronto.

This is what being your own beta reader looks like. You can do it as long as you aren't trying to do it right after "finishing" the writing.

You're also going to be a better beta reader than most strangers and even most personal friends, family and acquaintances. Beta readers will tell you all kinds of stuff which doesn't serve your story, because they don't know what was compelling to you about writing the story in the first place. Only you know what you really wanted out of it. Random volunteers are going to give you random feedback filtered through their own projections and proclivities. Or they won't really tell you anything at all, because they don't have the brass to be critical or the imagination to brainstorm anything helpful.

I mean, that's a little extreme and I exaggerated deliberately. But kinda-not-really, because you're asking about finding people who basically amount to amateur and uninvested beta readers. You're going to reject most of their "hey, I have a cool random-ass idea" suggestions for altering your story, and there won't be a lot of other feedback from them.

To find really good quality beta readers—and you want them to be really good, not unhelpfully half-assed—it is not a trivial process of just picking whoever volunteers. They would have to be people who you have a fairly substantial relationship with, and who have the skill to critique your craft. In general, we're talking about people from your writing club, or, a professional fiction marketing agent who you have a commercial relationship with.

So be your own beta reader! It just takes patience and a willingness to step away from the piece and work on something else for a good while.

 

[StillStunned]

Write and rewrite.

Write a few paragraphs - say about 500 words or so - then go back and rewrite them. Not editing, but actually rewriting.

Editing often assumes that what you've already written is more or less good to begin with. Rewriting is about taking the narrative but changing the words. It forces you to rethink your words and sentences, even your paragraphs, without the distraction of trying to write your story.

For many writers, I think, writing is about getting scenes out of their head and onto the page. But the words you use are just as much part of the story as the events and scenes. Giving them separate attention will make the story better.

 

[HordHolm]

Something that I found made my stories more satisfying to me was to change from writing wank material, to writing wank material that also has a story attached, with people doing things that aren't solely geared to getting nekkid. I still write wank material, too, but that's now more like a change from writing actual stories with actual plots and characters who, I hope, develop.