Cross post from How to...

[AG31]

This post, by @big_cane_sugar, entitled "how to get a girlfriend or have sex with a woman if you're a young man who thinks he can't do it" is thoughtful, but not getting much traffic, possibly because of the forum it's in. I think it's a very interesting topic, and am hoping this cross post will trigger more traffic.

 

[onehitwanda]

 

[big_cane_sugar]

This post, by @big_cane_sugar, entitled "how to get a girlfriend or have sex with a woman if you're a young man who thinks he can't do it" is thoughtful, but not getting much traffic, possibly because of the forum it's in. I think it's a very interesting topic, and am hoping this cross post will trigger more traffic.

Hey, thanks so much for doing this! I'm hoping to work on that a lot in the coming weeks....

 

[EmilyMiller]

People have violently disagreed with me on this topic, mostly men, but some possibly trad-wife adjacent women.

Step #1 - be a decent person. It’s the right thing to do and the ‘bad boys get the girls’ trope only applies to a minority of women.

Step #2 - forget this “friend zone” BS. Friendship can turn into other things. Friendship is an excellent starting place. And it’s nice to have friends, even if they don’t fuck you. A plus point, guys who demonstrably have women friends have a lot of red flags removed from them. You are automatically seen as safer. You are automatically seen as someone who values women beyond just vehicles for sex. Believe it or not, women like being recognized as humans too.

 

[onehitwanda]

If you cut me, do I not bleed?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

It's all fairly reasonable advice.

 

[THBGato]

Step #1 - be a decent person. It’s the right thing to do and the ‘bad boys get the girls’ trope only applies to a minority of women.

Step #2 - forget this “friend zone” BS. Friendship can turn into other things. Friendship is an excellent starting place. And it’s nice to have friends, even if they don’t fuck you. A plus point, guys who demonstrably have women friends have a lot of red flags removed from them. You are automatically seen as safer. You are automatically seen as someone who values women beyond just vehicles for sex. Believe it or not, women like being recognized as humans too.

 

[TheLobster]

A plus point, guys who demonstrably have women friends have a lot of red flags removed from them. (…) Believe it or not, women like being recognized as humans too.

Men like being recognized as humans, too, rather than presumed to be carriers of those automatic red flags that you’re implying all of us show.

 

[EmilyMiller]

It’s kinda interesting. At least a few women agree with my points. Others get butt hurt by them. Wonder why…

 

[Kelliezgirl]

It’s kinda interesting. At least a few women agree with my points. Others get butt hurt by them. Wonder why…

Because women have diverse points of view and shouldn't be stereotyped as some monothlic block?

 

[mrs_mackenzie]

Men like being recognized as humans, too, rather than presumed to be carriers of those automatic red flags that you’re implying all of us show.

I think some of this advice applies quite well to 'trying to find love later in life' when the initial flush of sexual attraction is starting to fade.

It's easier to overlook some red flags, male or female, if it's just a hookup. And in my experience men stay in this mindset for longer than women do.

And when the dating pool is shallower, you assume everyone must have some red flags, or why would they be single?

That's when the 'treating him/her like an interesting person' instead of a stereotype comes along, which works both ways. Some of my friends are horrifically nasty about men they barely know, dating or not.

 

[StillStunned]

Write hot erotica. Casually refer them to your stories. Wait for them to show up at your doorstep, gasping, "I have a list of things I want you to do to me!"

That said, I rarely had any idea why women were interested in me. After nearly 25 years, I still don't get why my wife apparently thinks I'm worth all my bad puns.

So for any men reading this: Em's advice is probably a good place to start.

 

[crookedletter]

Step 1: consult a smut site on the internet.

 

[EmilyMiller]

So for any men reading this: Em's advice is probably a good place to start.

Trying to be a decent person is a good objective anyway. It has the bonus of not having some women immediately rule you out. I don’t have the data to back this up, but IMO, for every woman drooling over a bad boy, there is at least another noping big time; and I actually think the second category is more numerous than the first.

Also, it sort of depends what the guy is after. If it’s a consequence-free hook-up, then some women are looking for the same, but we still want to feel safe. Which is where the ‘be a decent human being’ concept comes in yet again.

It’s not true that men want sex and women want relationships. Each person is an individual with their own needs, which change over time. Being friendly and approachable gives you a chance to explore what other people want and whether it lines up with you.

And - again - forming a non-sexual friendship with a woman isn’t a waste of time. If you think that, perhaps I’ve just identified your central problem in dating.

Even in hook-up mode, if you view women just as their sexual organs, that’s likely to be something we pick up on. You can have a mutually respectful one nighter.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Step 1: consult a smut site on the internet.

And most of the AH is so old that this advice isn't terribly useful anyway.
You'd be better off with a thread dedicated to "knowing the signs of a stroke."

 

[SimonDoom]

People have violently disagreed with me on this topic, mostly men, but some possibly trad-wife adjacent women.

Step #1 - be a decent person. It’s the right thing to do and the ‘bad boys get the girls’ trope only applies to a minority of women.

Step #2 - forget this “friend zone” BS. Friendship can turn into other things. Friendship is an excellent starting place. And it’s nice to have friends, even if they don’t fuck you. A plus point, guys who demonstrably have women friends have a lot of red flags removed from them. You are automatically seen as safer. You are automatically seen as someone who values women beyond just vehicles for sex. Believe it or not, women like being recognized as humans too.

Totally agree.

There are SOME women who like the "bad boy" thing, but most (in my experience--let me make it clear that's what this is based on) want to be with a good person. So, be a good person. But also:

1. Don't come across as needy--that's a turnoff.
2. Offer value. Whatever it is. Focus on your strengths (unless your strength is your prowess with big game hunting and you are trying to date a vegetarian).
3. Have a sense of humor. That doesn't mean telling jokes. It's more of an attitude and a way of reacting to things. Humor is a great disarmer and attracter.
4. Balance showing interest against being somewhat chill and relaxed at the same time.
5. Be well-groomed.
6. Ask her questions. Don't talk about yourself all the time.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Step #2 - forget this “friend zone” BS. Friendship can turn into other things. Friendship is an excellent starting place. And it’s nice to have friends, even if they don’t fuck you.

Everyone I've ever dated was a friend first.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Write hot erotica. Casually refer them to your stories. Wait for them to show up at your doorstep, gasping, "I have a list of things I want you to do to me!"

That said, I rarely had any idea why women were interested in me. After nearly 25 years, I still don't get why my wife apparently thinks I'm worth all my bad puns.

So for any men reading this: Em's advice is probably a good place to start.

It's a facade of helpfulness with no real substance.

What does "try to be a decent person" actually mean?
Do you really believe that all these guys are actively trying to be bad people?

This logic is what feeds the incel movement.

There are lots of nice guys who are decent people who struggle to get dates.
(There are also plenty of really nice women who struggle to get male attention, but that's a discussion for a different time.)
So is telling them "be a decent person" in any way helpful? Nope.

 

[mrs_mackenzie]

Write hot erotica. Casually refer them to your stories. Wait for them to show up at your doorstep, gasping, "I have a list of things I want you to do to me!"

What if the best I can do is lukewarm erotica?

 

[SimonDoom]

Write hot erotica. Casually refer them to your stories. Wait for them to show up at your doorstep, gasping, "I have a list of things I want you to do to me!"

I think I'm going to try this, tabulate the results, and then publish an essay here about it called, "What Happened When I Took StillStunned's Dating Advice."

I think the summary of the results of the study will go something like this: "I spent a long evening at my computer, as I always do."

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I think I'm going to try this, tabulate the results, and then publish an essay here about it called, "What Happened When I Took StillStunned's Dating Advice."

I think the summary of the results of the study will go something like this: "I spent a long evening at my computer, as I always do."

Are we back to sunburned genitals from the glare off the monitor?

And a restraining order or two on the side.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Okay, keep in mind that I'm not braining at my best here.

But, I think better advice than "Be a decent person" might be, to hang out with a variety of different people from different walks of life and try to learn what common sense and common courtesy is. Because,, some of us ain't had no upbringing and so didn't go into adulting knowing what those were.

Like did you know tht when you bring a new person to a party you're supposed to introduce them to people.

 

[StillStunned]

I think I'm going to try this, tabulate the results, and then publish an essay here about it called, "What Happened When I Took StillStunned's Dating Advice."

I think the summary of the results of the study will go something like this: "I spent a long evening at my computer, as I always do."

I wrote my wife a sex story before we started dating, when we were only flirting outrageously with each other without taking it seriously. Looking back, that story was probably a turning point.

What if the best I can do is lukewarm erotica?

Again, looking back, that story was probably tepid at best.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Okay, keep in mind that I'm not braining at my best here.

But, I think better advice than "Be a decent person" might be, to hang out with a variety of different people from different walks of life and try to learn what common sense and common courtesy is. Because,, some of us ain't had no upbringing and so didn't go into adulting knowing what those were.

Like did you know tht when you bring a new person to a party you're supposed to introduce them to people.

Good point, and expand your horizons a little bit, or a lot.

One of the most important things in establishing a relationship is common ground, something to talk about.

As Simon pointed out, being a big game hunter isn't going to wow the vegans.
So find the women who are into the outdoors if that's your thing.
I met my last BF in a hiking group. Our first few dates were long discussions of places we'd been and places we wanted to go. National Parks in the US and other countries and on and on.
One of my male friends took a sailing class because he'd always wanted to learn how.
Ended up dating his instructor, used to joke about how it was cheaper to buy her dinner than pay her instructor rate.

 

[THBGato]

What does "try to be a decent person" actually mean?
Do you really believe that all these guys are actively trying to be bad people?

This logic is what feeds the incel movement.

https://open.substack.com/pub/noahb...?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1zd57j

Brilliant exploration of this.

TLDR:
Essentially, men get it wrong when they see dating as a means to improve their standing with, impress or supplant other men. In such instances, the woman as a person gets forgotten - she only matters if dating her will give the man status.

Incels aren't really angry they can't get women: they are angry they can't get women that will impress other men.

Coming back to the thread - men need to be interested in women as individuals not status symbols.