What's the appeal - - Honestly

[SimonDoom]

@SimmonDoom woke folk haven't treated me that way at all. But those right-wing, gun-toting, racist, anti-interracial, anti-married-lesbian/gay, anti-adoptive parents of either race children have shouted me down, threatened my life, and made our lives miserable at times. So, I feel your pain, even if I can't empathize with your views.

You don't have to feel my pain. I don't have any. I haven't experienced those things personally, except to the extent people respond to things I say in social media forums with ad hominem attacks, as Emily has. That's small potatoes and doesn't bother me much. Emily accuses me of having no empathy when she demonstrates none at all toward people she disagrees with. This, too, is the W attitude: you must have empathy for me and my views but since my views are correct I don't have to demonstrate any empathy for yours. Empathy is very much a one-way street with this perspective.

 

[SimonDoom]

Translation:
My attempt at emotional blackmail failed. I have no chance of prevailing on the merits of the argument so I will try and make a dramatic exit to save face.

I think that's a fair summary. That's exactly what happened.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Just out of interest, is there a preferred word that encapsulates the idea 'progressive but ridiculous'?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Just out of interest, is there a preferred word that encapsulates the idea 'progressive but ridiculous'?

If there isn't there should be.

 

[SimonDoom]

Just out of interest, is there a preferred word that encapsulates the idea 'progressive but ridiculous'?

As long as you're looking for a word that incorporates the concept of "ridiculousness" I don't think you're going to get any more approval of its use than you do with the W word. I use it because I can't think of a good substitute. I think it does capture a real thing, especially concerning the attitudes and habits, which is much more what I'm focusing on in this discussion than on the content of the beliefs. "Left" doesn't work because there are plenty of left people, especially over 50, who are not "W." Maybe "illiberal?" But that encompasses ridiculous intolerant people from all over the political spectrum. I'm stumped.

 

[big_cane_sugar]

A guy makes one post about feet and next thing you know....

Edit: Just thought maybe I should make it clear that my allegiance mostly lies with the woke. But not with the thread continuing to debate it.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

A guy makes one post about feet and next thing you know....

Welcome to the internet...

 

[SimonDoom]

A guy makes one post about feet and next thing you know....

This is a feature, not a bug, of this place. It gets out of hand, but threads would be dull and short if it didn't happen at all.

 

[TheLobster]

Just out of interest, is there a preferred word that encapsulates the idea 'progressive but ridiculous'?

‘TikTok’? ‘BlueSky’?

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Okay, I'll try to get this back on track...

Sex involving articles of food.

Now, I'll admit that watching Kim Basinger being "consumed" by Micky Roarke in 9 1/2 Weeks gave me an "appetite", and the occasional use of whipped cream strategically placed on a woman's body can be quite tasty, but I don't see the appeal of much more than that.

Then again, I am not a very adventurous foodie in general.

 

[big_cane_sugar]

Okay, I'll try to get this back on track...

Sex involving articles of food.

Now, I'll admit that watching Kim Basinger being "consumed" by Micky Roarke in 9 1/2 Weeks gave me an "appetite", and the occasional use of whipped cream strategically placed on a woman's body can be quite tasty, but I don't see the appeal of much more than that.

Then again, I am not a very adventurous foodie in general.

I can help with this at least a little.... In my experience, it's a fun way to "juice" up oral attention. It's definitely something on the fun/lighthearted side of things because especially liquid goes where it wants to go and the partner's mouth has to follow with a lot of slurping and licking. Expect a lot of giggling and if you use anything like red wine, stained sheets. I suspect it adds a sensual element for the person being licked, perhaps also the contrast between temperatures.

IDK 9 1/2 weeks but you might also enjoy Herb Alpert's "Whipped Cream and Other Delights."

 

[HordHolm]

Okay, I'll try to get this back on track...

Sex involving articles of food.

Now, I'll admit that watching Kim Basinger being "consumed" by Micky Roarke in 9 1/2 Weeks gave me an "appetite", and the occasional use of whipped cream strategically placed on a woman's body can be quite tasty, but I don't see the appeal of much more than that.

Then again, I am not a very adventurous foodie in general.

And, happily, evolution has ensured that the human belly-button, provided it's clean, makes for a more than acceptable wine glass.

 

[SimonDoom]

Sex and food -- one of the best movie scenes along these lines is the scene in the movie Tom Jones where Tom and a woman he met have dinner at a table, but the way they eat and look at each other is presented in a highly lusty, erotic way. There's no physical contact, let alone sex, in that scene, but it's still highly erotic based on their actions and the way they look at each other. It's a good cinematic example of how with a little skill you can present something non-erotic as erotic.

 

[HordHolm]

Sex and food -- one of the best movie scenes along these lines is the scene in the movie Tom Jones where Tom and a woman he met have dinner at a table, but the way they eat and look at each other is presented in a highly lusty, erotic way. There's no physical contact, let alone sex, in that scene, but it's still highly erotic based on their actions and the way they look at each other. It's a good cinematic example of how with a little skill you can present something non-erotic as erotic.

I've never looked at a pear the same way since that scene.

 

[AG31]

I don't think it's OK to say "in 1944 that was what they meant."

Why not? Isn't that what cultural historians do all the time?

 

[AG31]

You don't have to feel my pain. I don't have any. I haven't experienced those things personally, except to the extent people respond to things I say in social media forums with ad hominem attacks, as Emily has. That's small potatoes and doesn't bother me much. Emily accuses me of having no empathy when she demonstrates none at all toward people she disagrees with. This, too, is the W attitude: you must have empathy for me and my views but since my views are correct I don't have to demonstrate any empathy for yours. Empathy is very much a one-way street with this perspective.

This has been an illumintating interchange with you and @EmilyMiller (and others). I travel in "woke" circles, but I'm not very social, and it took me a while to figure out what the term meant, back in the day when the left was claiming it proudly. It always made me feel vaguely uncomfortable, and I've gradually gotten to understand the damage it can do to our sense of solidarity as a populace. Thanks for your articulate statement of the case. It demonstrates that not all "still asleep" people are idiots.

 

[Britva415]

I think it's totally OK to say "in 2025 this sounds like [say how it sounds like]."

I don't think it's OK to say "in 1944 that was what they meant."

Why not? Isn't that what cultural historians do all the time?

First of all: I assume that you’re talking about credible academics rather than just calling randos who talk out their ass “cultural historians.”

Just mouthing off about a 80 year old song doesn't make someone a cultural historian.

Second of all: You have taken something I said about one specific thing and generalized it very far beyond these specifics. No - your generalization isn't even about these specifics.

The reason why it's not OK in this specific case is that it’s wrong. Or, at the very very least, there isn't any evidence for it, and so it's intellectually dishonest to say it without at least appealing to evidence.

The people I’m talking about aren’t cultural historians. If you can cite a cultural historian who has published on this matter, I would be glad to read their paper and see how defensible their thesis is and how credible their evidence is.

My prediction is there is no such paper, and nobody has convinced me that there is anything defensible about the thesis that that song was intentionally written about roofies and date rape.

 

[AG31]

@EmilyMiller, @SimonDoom, when is a shibboleth good, and when is it bad? Here's AI's definition (so it might be wrong). Your thoughts are probably buried in the thread above, but could you (and anyone else) give your thoughts on this? No reference to particular shibboleths.

A shibboleth is a word, phrase, or custom that a particular group of people uses to distinguish themselves from others, often serving as a test of membership or belonging. It can also refer to an outdated or commonly held belief that is no longer relevant or accurate.

 

[HordHolm]

@AG31 @Britva415 Read the room... we're trying to get past yesterday's shitfest and back on to what this thread was meant to be about...

 

[big_cane_sugar]

Another fun one....

The strip tease. Pretty much anything that involves slowing things down. Of course sometimes it's fun to rip things and get her done asap, but for some reason most of the time it's more erotic (even for a straight guy) to take things slowly.

Why is that?

Any theories?

 

[HordHolm]

Another fun one....

The strip tease. Pretty much anything that involves slowing things down. Of course sometimes it's fun to rip things and get her done asap, but for some reason most of the time it's more erotic (even for a straight guy) to take things slowly.

Why is that?

Any theories?

How does that old song go..? Antici-pa-pa-paaa-tion

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Another fun one....

The strip tease. Pretty much anything that involves slowing things down. Of course sometimes it's fun to rip things and get her done asap, but for some reason most of the time it's more erotic (even for a straight guy) to take things slowly.

Why is that?

Any theories?

It's the teasing aspect. The delayed, or sometimes denied gratification.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Then let's move on to...

Smells

I'm not talking about the natural, organic scents that can emanate from the human body to entice and arouse the opposite sex. Let's look at additive scents, such as perfumes, soaps, cosmetics, etc. What do you find appealing?

I had an ex-wife who was a social smoker. (She only smoked outside her place of work with coworkers in order to be sociable during their breaks) When she came home, I would frequently ask her not to wash her hands. The smell of the smoke on her fingers as she used them to spread her labia for me just added a certain naughtiness that I can't explain and thinking of it (but not her) still turns me on.

 

[SimonDoom]

Another fun one....

The strip tease. Pretty much anything that involves slowing things down. Of course sometimes it's fun to rip things and get her done asap, but for some reason most of the time it's more erotic (even for a straight guy) to take things slowly.

Why is that?

Any theories?

I think this is a universally appealing concept. Hitchcock talked about it in the context of a suspense film. He said a bomb going off isn't terrifying, but anticipating the bomb going off is. The same principle applies in erotica. Having your partner strip for you, slowly, agonizingly, teasing you with each article of clothing. That's a great experience.

Or analogize it to sex itself. The best part isn't release, it's that exquisite moment right before the release.

 

[AG31]

@AG31 @Britva415 Read the room... we're trying to get past yesterday's shitfest and back on to what this thread was meant to be about...

Well, some of us are, and some of us would like to pursue some of the ideas that have been raised.