Chapters as stories or single story for novels?

[Cheeslord]

Sorry for asking a 'noob' question, but I am new to the platform, and I have checked the FAQs and for previous posts which don't seem to quite answer my exact problem.

I have a novel, fully complete, 70kwrds, 18 chapters. Is it best to submit the whole thing as a single story, or a series of chapters? Separate chapters seem like they would make navigation easier, as I can't see a way to bookmark or skip to chapters in a single document (it makes pages when reading, but they are completely arbitrary, and you can end up with things like the next chapter heading being right at the bottom of the page).

But then, each submission is called a 'story' by the site, so maybe they prefer this, and some people might think something in multiple chapters is unfinished. I only want to make the experience best for the readers - which approach would you recommend?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Katie_Mae]

As a reader I prefer longer works to be broken down into chapters, and prefer chapters to be not much longer than 10k. However, each reader has their own preferences. Eg some people prefer it all posted as one story. I even saw one reader say they would rather read a story as a continuous scroll, yet I'd hate reading a novel length on a continuous scroll!

If you submit as chapters, you can bundle them all into a series, and then mark the series as complete.

Also, I think that most people find that readers here do prefer longer chapters than what you might see elsewhere. so splitting a 70k work into 18 chapters would be generally less preferred than splitting it into 5-7 chapters or posting it as a single work.

At the end of the day, I'd recommend doing whichever you prefer, and if, over time, your readers do give you feedback, then you can adjust how you post future works.

 

[Bamagan]

Sorry for asking a 'noob' question, but I am new to the platform, and I have checked the FAQs and for previous posts which don't seem to quite answer my exact problem.

I have a novel, fully complete, 70kwrds, 18 chapters. Is it best to submit the whole thing as a single story, or a series of chapters? Separate chapters seem like they would make navigation easier, as I can't see a way to bookmark or skip to chapters in a single document (it makes pages when reading, but they are completely arbitrary, and you can end up with things like the next chapter heading being right at the bottom of the page).

But then, each submission is called a 'story' by the site, so maybe they prefer this, and some people might think something in multiple chapters is unfinished. I only want to make the experience best for the readers - which approach would you recommend?

Thanks for any advice.

It's largely a matter of personal preference, and there's a mild but noticeable trend related to voting scores, if that matters to you. Reader preference goes both ways in most categories, so it's a pick your poison scenario.
Separate chapters means more visibility, since they're usually released one per day at most. Views for subsequent chapters usually fall, as some folks don't want to read partial stuff. Scores are often higher on later chapters since only the ones most interested even open them. Some authors report getting more insightful comments on the longer works as compared to generic encouragement (more please!) on chapters.

 

[MrPixel]

I prefer separate chapters as discrete stories. The site's "series" feature is designed to accommodate this, including links to prior and next chapters at the end of the chapter.

The main problem with chapters is there is no mass upload accommodation - each chapter has to be loaded separately, and all the blanks filled-in on the upload page. I just uploaded a 13 chapter/100K word series yesterday, and was reminded of how insanely tedious this process is. Also, the process is an open invitation for getting your hands crossed with things like clicking on the wrong file for an upload.

As @Katie_Mae said, I would suggest your chapters, at an average 4K words each, are on the short side. You probably want to double that. Also my opinion given the lack of ability to bookmark, a single humongous file is a daunting read. I would click out on getting to the bottom of the first page once I saw it had more than 6 or so LitE pages, or roughly 20K words.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Sorry for asking a 'noob' question, but I am new to the platform, and I have checked the FAQs and for previous posts which don't seem to quite answer my exact problem.

I have a novel, fully complete, 70kwrds, 18 chapters. Is it best to submit the whole thing as a single story, or a series of chapters? Separate chapters seem like they would make navigation easier, as I can't see a way to bookmark or skip to chapters in a single document (it makes pages when reading, but they are completely arbitrary, and you can end up with things like the next chapter heading being right at the bottom of the page).

That's a good chapter length for a novel that long, I reckon, a sweet spot.

The advantage of a chaptered story versus a single submission is that the view count for the final chapter gives you a fair idea how many people have actually read the whole thing. There's always a drop off over the first three chapters, but generally the views then go pretty much steady state to the end, which gives you some idea of the number of readers staying for the ride. With a single submission, you have no idea.

Just remember to:

Title Title Ch.01
Title Title Ch.02 etc.

The site automatically joins the chapters together as soon as you publish the second chapter.

Others will say, publish the whole thing as a single submission, and there are pros and cons for both methods. Keep in mind, a year later the publishing strategy is irrelevant, because the whole thing is out there - and at that point it's the quality of the writing that counts, nothing else.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I have eleven novels published here, so I'll share what my experience has been...

The first four novels were submitted as individual chapters, one right after the other on the same day. They were subsequently published here day after day until all were available to the readers. The stories did well, but there was one piece of reader feedback that became overwhelmingly in the majority, and that was that the readers stated their preference for single submission of longer stories, or at least my longer stories.

After these comments continued with the fourth novel, I asked Laurel, the site admin, to remove the chapters and replace them with the corresponding single submission for each. The average scores for all four novels rose by approximately 0.1 point and there has never been a comment or other feedback indicating someone wanted the novels "broken up". The same is true for the seven novels since then.

Categories where stories get posted can influence readers' tolerance for the length of a tale. Readers expecting quick arousal and satisfaction in the kink of their choice will gravitate towards shorter stories. Readers venturing into the Novels/Novellas category expect a longer read and aren't as bothered by it being in a single, longer file.

Finally, kudos for completing the story before publishing any part of it. You're setting a good example for other new authors with your patience.

 

[TheLobster]

70k words could likely still work as a single submission, just as long as you include internal chapter breaks within the text itself. The site won't turn them into bookmarks, sadly (although certain tricks with <a name="..."> do work), but they'll help readers find their place in the text better than physical page breaks which are in the end arbitrary.

It's when you get into six digits that it gets really unwieldy. I'm currently reading through a 100k+ piece, 29 Lit pages, which only has scene breaks and no delineated chapters, and I have to spend like a minute each time trying to figure out where I stopped reading previously.

 

[THBGato]

Also, I think that most people find that readers here do prefer longer chapters than what you might see elsewhere. so splitting a 70k work into 18 chapters would be generally less preferred than splitting it into 5-7 chapters or posting it as a single work.

Agreed. I'm a voracious reader, but series with more than 8 chapters often put me off. Not sure why, and this may just be me. Short (under 7k) chapters are just frustrating.

Finally, kudos for completing the story before publishing any part of it. You're setting a good example for other new authors with your patience.

Agreed. It's a good plan.

I've published two 80,000+ plus stories here. One I published as 5 chapters; one I submitted as a single submission. Both have done very well in terms of scores. However, the 5 chapter version obviously got more comments overall than the single submission, as several readers commented on each chapter. So if comments are you motivation, that's the way to go...

Good luck!

 

[iwatchus]

I just published my first novel length story (120K in this case). I had published 33 earlier short and medium length stories (3-30K), more than half in a series where each story can be read stand alone.

I finished the entire novel before publishing any of it, based on advise given in a thread similar to this. I think it well. It was 16 chapters long, so roughly 7.5K chapters (2 lit pages). But some of the chapter breaks made terrible reading breaks. I pondered whether to post it as one entry (as @BobbyBrandt consistently recommends) or as a handful of sections. I ended up choosing to post 6 groups of chapters, because I think much over 25K gets to be a bit intimidating to read at once.

One of the factors I don't see discussed enough is the breaks for the reader. If you publish it in chunks, they will not appear more than one per day. Are breaks something you want to make your reader wait 24 hours to be able to get past?

My deciding factor was actually my own editing style. I am a self-tagging, cut-and-paste submitter (see @FrancesScott excellent piece on html tagging if you want to tag yourself rather than relying on MS word). I use the preview & publish view to do my final proof read -- I find that the change in typography (or something) makes me see things I will not in my own editor. But it gets hard to maintain focus past 20K on a final proof read. As I mentioned above, I have submitted stories of almost 30K, so I can do it that long. But I did not think I could do a final proof read of 120K at once.

I have gotten no complaints from users about the split, so I guess it wasn't horrible for them.

If you do split, make sure you go into the series control and mark the series complete one the final portion is published.

 

[ElectricBlue]

One of the factors I don't see discussed enough is the breaks for the reader. If you publish it in chunks, they will not appear more than one per day. Are breaks something you want to make your reader wait 24 hours to be able to get past?

People get hung up on this, the expectation of readers coming into the first release of chapters. After two months, a year, five years, it's completely irrelevant, that first release.

My 104,000 word Arthurian novel, for example, was released over 22 days and notched up a thousand reads of the last chapter after a couple of months. Years later, the last chapter has just tickled over 4200 views. Not huge in the grand scheme of things, but four times those initial views.

Don't sweat the first release, it really doesn't matter in the long run.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

My deciding factor was actually my own editing style. I am a self-tagging, cut-and-paste submitter (see @FrancesScott excellent piece on html tagging if you want to tag yourself rather than relying on MS word). I use the preview & publish view to do my final proof read -- I find that the change in typography (or something) makes me see things I will not in my own editor. But it gets hard to maintain focus past 20K on a final proof read. As I mentioned above, I have submitted stories of almost 30K, so I can do it that long. But I did not think I could do a final proof read of 120K at once.

This is certainly an important consideration if you are pasting into the submission field instead of uploading a file. I agree that it would be very tedious to review anything longer that around 20K words in the submission box.

 

[THBGato]

One of the factors I don't see discussed enough is the breaks for the reader. If you publish it in chunks, they will not appear more than one per day. Are breaks something you want to make your reader wait 24 hours to be able to get past?

It's not the wait, so much as the experience. A lot of my stories have natural breaks, cliff-hangers, pauses, even shifts of point of view. That bookmark that you create with a chapter break can act as a pause point, inviting the reader to reflect before they read on; that tiny time it takes to click onto 'next in series' can lengthen the tension of the cliffhanger.

In contrast, I wanted Forty to be one submission because I wanted readers to be swept along, as Liz was, by the momentum of a hundred inconsequential actions that gain emotional mass when stacked on one another. I felt it would be most effective, most immersive, as one massive piece than many smaller ones.

 

[alohadave]

I'm currently reading through a 100k+ piece, 29 Lit pages, which only has scene breaks and no delineated chapters, and I have to spend like a minute each time trying to figure out where I stopped reading previously

Have you tried opening the story in a tab of its own? That way you don't need to find your place again later.

 

[iwatchus]

It's not the wait, so much as the experience. A lot of my stories have natural breaks, cliff-hangers, pauses, even shifts of point of view. That bookmark that you create with a chapter break can act as a pause point, inviting the reader to reflect before they read on; that tiny time it takes to click onto 'next in series' can lengthen the tension of the cliffhanger.

In contrast, I wanted Forty to be one submission because I wanted readers to be swept along, as Liz was, by the momentum of a hundred inconsequential actions that gain emotional mass when stacked on one another. I felt it would be most effective, most immersive, as one massive piece than many smaller ones.

I had originally written the novel with no chapter breaks at all, just one continuous stream from my mind to the paper. One of my early editing passes added chapter breaks. I think it notably improved the story, just like paragraph breaks but stronger. I tried to group chapters to consider the lower break when splitting it up but I don;t think that was completely successful.

 

[TheLobster]

Have you tried opening the story in a tab of its own? That way you don't need to find your place again later.

I'm reading longer works like that on my iPad, and like all mobile devices it occasionally likes to evict unused apps from memory and thus force a reload next time I open them. If it happens to the web browser, then the tabs will get unloaded too, meaning the story page will be refreshed without preserving the scroll position.

It's not a big deal if the story has internal chapters, since it takes a few seconds to find the chapter header (or use Find in Page -> type "chapt" or whatnot). But if it's just a stream of scenes, or worse yet a stream of very long scenes, then it becomes a much bigger hassle to find the right dinkus or especially paragraph.

This is partially solvable by Lit itself, of course, with the added benefit of being able to track actual reads vs. views, but it would require rather intrusive Javascript which I don't think most readers afraid of getting tracked would appreciate.

 

[TheLobster]

I had originally written the novel with no chapter breaks at all, just one continuous stream from my mind to the paper. One of my early editing passes added chapter breaks. I think it notably improved the story, just like paragraph breaks but stronger. I tried to group chapters to consider the lower break when splitting it up but I don;t think that was completely successful.

I usually chapter my longer stories as I go, after each significant event or scenery change that feels like it deserves more than simple scene break. Sometimes I used to hem and haw, and move the chapter break back and forth, before or after particular scene; but I learned that dilemmas like these resolve themselves in the long run, once you have more of the story written.

What I do during editing is to put the lengths of each scene into a spreadsheet, grouped by chapters, then sum them up to get chapter lengths. If there are absolutely massive outliers, I might consider merging or splitting things at that stage, but it happens pretty rarely. My Summer Lovin entry has the shortest chapter at 2435 and the longest at 5720, so IMO that's an acceptable spread (and the almost-6k one is the sex scene of MC's first time, so it has every right to be this long).

Of course if you didn't think about chapter breaks at all while you were writing, then you can probably make them pretty uniform in length. I kind of feel like chaptering is part of structure as much as paragraphs, just like you said, so I think having short chapters for artistic effect is a tool in writer's toolkit in the same way short Wham! paragraphs are.

 

[iwatchus]

I usually chapter my longer stories as I go, after each significant event or scenery change that feels like it deserves more than simple scene break. Sometimes I used to hem and haw, and move the chapter break back and forth, before or after particular scene; but I learned that dilemmas like these resolve themselves in the long run, once you have more of the story written.

What I do during editing is to put the lengths of each scene into a spreadsheet, grouped by chapters, then sum them up to get chapter lengths. If there are absolutely massive outliers, I might consider merging or splitting things at that stage, but it happens pretty rarely. My Summer Lovin entry has the shortest chapter at 2435 and the longest at 5720, so IMO that's an acceptable spread (and the almost-6k one is the sex scene of MC's first time, so it has every right to be this long).

Of course if you didn't think about chapter breaks at all while you were writing, then you can probably make them pretty uniform in length. I kind of feel like chaptering is part of structure as much as paragraphs, just like you said, so I think having short chapters for artistic effect is a tool in writer's toolkit in the same way short Wham! paragraphs are.

This was my first story that I have had chapters in, so I wasn't thinking about them as I was writing. And it was a surprise to me how much they improved things. And, as you noticed on the novel, I can tend to ramble. A good editor would do my writing a world of good. One of my doctoral advisors got me to be much more succinct in my technical writing. I need to learn that in my fiction without making it sound like a conference paper.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Chapters as stories or single story for novels?​

I’ve found publishing a novella en masse a more satisfying process than doing it a chapter at a time. Twice now I have taken either complete or partially complete series-based novellas and republished them as a single submission.

But, and this is new territory for me, my WIP novel currently has six parts, each at about 15,000 words. Each part has a different focus, some different characters, and a different location. So the breaks make sense to me.

I’m considering whether to publish daily, or ask Laurel to post them all on the same day. But I felt that a very high Lit page count would be off-putting for some, and the part breaks are very natural.

We’ll see what happens.

 

[FrancesScott]

I just published my first novel length story (120K in this case). I had published 33 earlier short and medium length stories (3-30K), more than half in a series where each story can be read stand alone.

I finished the entire novel before publishing any of it, based on advise given in a thread similar to this. I think it well. It was 16 chapters long, so roughly 7.5K chapters (2 lit pages). But some of the chapter breaks made terrible reading breaks. I pondered whether to post it as one entry (as @BobbyBrandt consistently recommends) or as a handful of sections. I ended up choosing to post 6 groups of chapters, because I think much over 25K gets to be a bit intimidating to read at once.

One of the factors I don't see discussed enough is the breaks for the reader. If you publish it in chunks, they will not appear more than one per day. Are breaks something you want to make your reader wait 24 hours to be able to get past?

My deciding factor was actually my own editing style. I am a self-tagging, cut-and-paste submitter (see @FrancesScott excellent piece on html tagging if you want to tag yourself rather than relying on MS word). I use the preview & publish view to do my final proof read -- I find that the change in typography (or something) makes me see things I will not in my own editor. But it gets hard to maintain focus past 20K on a final proof read. As I mentioned above, I have submitted stories of almost 30K, so I can do it that long. But I did not think I could do a final proof read of 120K at once.

I have gotten no complaints from users about the split, so I guess it wasn't horrible for them.

If you do split, make sure you go into the series control and mark the series complete one the final portion is published.

Thank you for the shout out!

 

[Cagivagurl]

Sorry for asking a 'noob' question, but I am new to the platform, and I have checked the FAQs and for previous posts which don't seem to quite answer my exact problem.

I have a novel, fully complete, 70kwrds, 18 chapters. Is it best to submit the whole thing as a single story, or a series of chapters? Separate chapters seem like they would make navigation easier, as I can't see a way to bookmark or skip to chapters in a single document (it makes pages when reading, but they are completely arbitrary, and you can end up with things like the next chapter heading being right at the bottom of the page).

But then, each submission is called a 'story' by the site, so maybe they prefer this, and some people might think something in multiple chapters is unfinished. I only want to make the experience best for the readers - which approach would you recommend?

Thanks for any advice.

My advice based solely on my preference...
Chaptered stories annoy me. Having been disappointed by authors that leave a series unfinished. I no longer read anything that is not a complete story.
My preference is longer stories.
The argument over chaptered versus one single posting has been discussed many times. There are as many opinions as there are questions...People argue that chaptered stories give higher numbers.
My personal experience... Post as one...
Readers are adults. They understand they don't have to read a story in one sitting, and go back to it as many times as required.... Adults have longer attention spans than children. They can take their time and read as the mood takes them...
I refuse to open anything that says (Chapter one) I simply can't be bothered having to wait for the Author to post the second... Is it going to be a day, a week, a month... Never...
No, I just leave them unopened... There are plenty of complete works...

Just my opinion of course....
So be it.

Cagivagurl

 

[iwatchus]

My advice based solely on my preference...
Chaptered stories annoy me. Having been disappointed by authors that leave a series unfinished. I no longer read anything that is not a complete story.
My preference is longer stories.
The argument over chaptered versus one single posting has been discussed many times. There are as many opinions as there are questions...People argue that chaptered stories give higher numbers.
My personal experience... Post as one...
Readers are adults. They understand they don't have to read a story in one sitting, and go back to it as many times as required.... Adults have longer attention spans than children. They can take their time and read as the mood takes them...
I refuse to open anything that says (Chapter one) I simply can't be bothered having to wait for the Author to post the second... Is it going to be a day, a week, a month... Never...
No, I just leave them unopened... There are plenty of complete works...

Just my opinion of course....
So be it.

Cagivagurl

Does the completed tag help you? Waiting for that does mean the series is off the new page for the category, but there is a page for new series that some people may look at. I have to admit I don't.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Does the completed tag help you? Waiting for that does mean the series is off the new page for the category, but there is a page for new series that some people may look at. I have to admit I don't.

No not really. The story may be complete, but the author might choose to release them over a much longer time frame...
Personally, if I see chapter, I don't even bother. Just scroll on by...
To explain...
I love to read, I'm passionate... If I get into a story. I may read it in one sitting, unable to put it down until finished... A chaptered story removes that option...
If it's that good... I want to finish it at my leisure, not the authors...

What's the point of breaking it into chapters???
I've tried both, and found there's no benefit...
If it's finished, post it as one, and let the readers enjoy it.

Cagvivagurl

 

[Statius]

I am working on a novella/ novel length story of a two parter already published. We'll see depending on length I guess. I am definitely doing chapters but will not publish, if at all, until it is completed. Plan on putting a notice at the beginning of chapter 1 that the whole work is completed. Only question will be a chapter a day or every week? But I am a looooong way off from having to answer that question myself yet.