For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[dmallord]

This is sound logic, worthy of discussion

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Ask yourself why Russia demanded that Ukraine give up its nuclear weapons in exchange for an agreement for US and allied promises to come to its aid if Russian aggression restarted? Russia didn't give up, nor offer any such concession on its borders with Ukraine in exchange for peace. The obvious answer was the lethality of nuclear weapons on Russian territories if attacked. Those nukes served as a frightful deterrent. Ukraine fully expected the USA to honor its protection agreement. Needless to say, we failed them at the first onset of aggression.

Nothing changed in that now non-nuclear environment until talks of Ukraine joining NATO began in earnest. It would have strengthened Ukraine's protection with such an alliance. Protection for Ukraine under a joint alliance was not favorable for a Russian advance and conquest attempt if that were in place. Obviously, those with superior numbers and weaponry would be drawn into the war.

Putin tested that fact by seizing Crimea. Nothing happened. His mouse had stolen some cheese and nothing happened. One taste wasn't enough, and Putin decided to seize it all. Ukraine lacked the deep strike capability Russia had, as well as the armament to repel the superior Russian military forces. None of the US weapons with that range were in Ukraine's possession. The video makes it seem that having them was an aggressive action rather than a protective action. That's propaganda at work. If your enemy lacks attack capability, there is little to stop a madman's advancement. [Has me worried about our guy having a nuclear football outside his doorway.] In and out in three days was the expectation. Putin's troops expected to roll into Kiev, receive some jubilant cheering, and reestablish Russian control.

That didn't happen. Ukrainian pride and ingenuity stymied Putin's poorly run attacks, running out of gas and other logistical issues sounded like a Trump-made plan. That puts us where we are today. Ukraine is hanging on by a thread, and the USA and the EU are failing to step up to Putin's aggression. And now a meeting in Alaska to divide up territory–the spoils of war. This from our guy wanting a Nobel Peace Prize at any cost.

 

[Lazaran]

Oops:

And right before DonOld’s capitulation summit with Putin in the future Russian territory of Alaskya…



We. Told. Them. So.



Slava Ukraini!!!

 

[Lance_Castro]

Thanks for regurgitating the standard Western view.

Ukraine is more Russian than people in the West want to admit.

Zelensky’s first language is Russian.

 

[dmallord]

Thanks for regurgitating the standard Western view.

Ukraine is more Russian than people in the West want to admit.

Zelensky’s first language is Russian.

"There is virtually no stigma over the Russian language in Ukraine. There is a great deal of Ukraine where a mixture of the two languages is used in everyday life. A lot of Ukrainan people are fluent only in Russian (without those people being less Ukrainian in other regards)"

You use of the term regurgitating is a curious marker for introspection on you views about Westerners. Are you pro-Russian?

Clearly, Zelensky's politics have no ties to those Russians who are devastating his country, do they? His views are not suspect, like say a current president, who would lean over backward to shield a dictator's unprovoked war.

BTW I don't think speaking multiple languages is an indicator of a person's political leanings, except perhaps in Canada with that English/French thing still simmering in politics.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Thanks for regurgitating the standard Western view.

Ukraine is more Russian than people in the West want to admit.

Zelensky’s first language is Russian.

Your first language is English. Are you British? You're being an idiot, Lance. You should probably stay out of this one.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Russia couldn’t win the war, so it took a break — only to come back and destroy the country, killing hundreds of thousands of Chechens.

The only language russia understands is the language of force. They must be humiliated and decisively defeated. Otherwise, the world will remain at the mercy of an evil empire, ready to attack any country, at any time. Because if Ukraine is defeated, next are Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania - and we all know TACO won't fight for them either. With every concession Trump makes, and every postpobement of doing anything, we edge closer and closer to WW3. Trump has done nothing to avert WW3, he brigs it closer every time he opens his mouth and attacks Ukraine.

With Putin, peace is just the pause before the slaughter, and Ukraine understands this.

Trump has no fucking clue. All he needs to do here is STFU, stay out of it, and sell NATO and Ukraine anything they want to buy. That's it. But he's too fucking clueless to even do that.

 

[ChloeTzang]

1.25 million by the end of the year.

Notice also how the tank and IFV losses have dropped to almost nothing. Russia just does not have any significant numbers left. They are now an infantry army, incapable of any rapid exploitation of breakthroughs and unable to react quickly.

 

[Lance_Castro]

Ha! I am pro Uke, but the facts are the facts.

All of Uke east of the river is majority Russian culturally and Russian speaking… that’s why there’s been such a strong ongoing separatist movement there.

It’s not all cut and dry.

 

[ll74]

Ha! I am pro Uke, but the facts are the facts.

All of Uke east of the river is majority Russian culturally and Russian speaking… that’s why there’s been such a strong ongoing seperatist movement there.

It’s not all cut and dry.

All of Russia is Russian speaking. They just don't always speak it primarily.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Ukraine hit the Saratov pol refinery in Russia last might. This is the fourth Russian oil refinery taken offline in the last 8 days. The refinery was heavily hit by Ukrainian attack drones overnight, with the morning sun revealing multiple pillars of smoke and active fires raging across the refinery complex.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Not many things more beautiful than a burning Russian oil refinery in the morning......three major fires after tonight’s Ukrainian drone attack. Still burning this morning. According to the General Staff, the Saratov oil refinery is one of Russia’s key fuel infrastructure sites supplying petroleum products to occupation forces. Its annual processing capacity is up to 7 million tons of crude oil. Saratov Oblast Governor Roman Busargin confirmed damage at one of the region’s industrial sites.

This happening almost every night now. Ukraine isn't stuck in the room with Russia, Russia is stuck in the room with Ukraine and the FAFO will continue! NASA imagery shows 70% of the Saratov refinery is on fire. There should be no doubt THAT Ukraine is going to COMPLETELY destroy Russia's oil industry. Only the US stopped them before, but Trump has given up any leverage the US has over Ukraine by siding with Putin, halting ship,ments of military aid and not continuing military assistance.

 

[Lance_Castro]

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[Celand]

It is increasingly clear President Trump stands at a Churchill–Chamberlain crossroads.

You cannot trade another nation’s sovereignty for the illusion of stability.

His choice will decide not only Ukraine’s fate, but the future security of the United States and the free world. Sadly, it seems that Trump will choose to take the Chamberlain Road. Fortunately, Ukraine is in a better position than Czechoslovakia was, but that will in no way mitigate how Trump will be remembered.

View attachment 2557306

Wrong comparison..

In prewar Czechoslovakia, ALL minorities and Germans ( the largest minority) could keep their names, could be (and were) elected to the parliament, had at least 3 ministers in the Government. In any section of the country with a minimum of 20% of a minority had the right to educated their children in German, conduct business in German, had all Czech or local governments mandated German as one of the official languages, signs were mandated bilingual ... etc, etc. Even the worst of the worst Karl Hermann Frank ( hung by the Czechs after the war) was a member of the Czechoslovak parliament where he ( as well as all other German parliamentarians) were allowed to make speeches in German, Prague even had German University....nor mentioning the multitude of German newspapers, books and radio stations.


In the Ukraine today : Anything Russian had to be changed into Ukrainian including names, that is why all Vladimirs and Volodymirs, all Igors are Ihors and even Kiev know by this name for 100s of years is now Kyiv. The original names of people are NOT recognised. Russian speaking " minority" ( this minority has in Crimea about 80 % in Luhansk and Donetsk over 50 %) has NO schools, NO newspapers, NO TV or radio stations, NOT even a recognition as a minority in the Ukrainian constitution...If Czechs did to the Germans what is Ukraine doing to Russians, I would have supported the Munich treaty !

 

[ChloeTzang]

Another Russian oil refinery hit.... the Ukhta oil refinery in the Komi Republic, 1700 kms from Ukraine. Won't be long before they're hitting Vladivostok

 

[Lance_Castro]

Wrong comparison..

In prewar Czechoslovakia, ALL minorities and Germans ( the largest minority) could keep their names, could be (and were) elected to the parliament, had at least 3 ministers in the Government. In any section of the country with a minimum of 20% of a minority had the right to educated their children in German, conduct business in German, had all Czech or local governments mandated German as one of the official languages, signs were mandated bilingual ... etc, etc. Even the worst of the worst Karl Hermann Frank ( hung by the Czechs after the war) was a member of the Czechoslovak parliament where he ( as well as all other German parliamentarians) were allowed to make speeches in German, Prague even had German University....nor mentioning the multitude of German newspapers, books and radio stations.


In the Ukraine today : Anything Russian had to be changed into Ukrainian including names, that is why all Vladimirs and Volodymirs, all Igors are Ihors and even Kiev know by this name for 100s of years is now Kyiv. The original names of people are NOT recognised. Russian speaking " minority" ( this minority has in Crimea about 80 % in Luhansk and Donetsk over 50 %) has NO schools, NO newspapers, NO TV or radio stations, NOT even a recognition as a minority in the Ukrainian constitution...If Czechs did to the Germans what is Ukraine doing to Russians, I would have supported the Munich treaty !

the “russia bad” US religion forbids seeing ukraine as at fault in any degree, but the truth is that a good chunk of ukraine is really russian.

Russia’s economy is about the same size as Canada’s, so the USA can resolve this if it wants to.

 

[Celand]

It is increasingly clear President Trump stands at a Churchill–Chamberlain crossroads.

You cannot trade another nation’s sovereignty for the illusion of stability.

His choice will decide not only Ukraine’s fate, but the future security of the United States and the free world. Sadly, it seems that Trump will choose to take the Chamberlain Road. Fortunately, Ukraine is in a better position than Czechoslovakia was, but that will in no way mitigate how Trump will be remembered.

View attachment 2557306

Wrong comparison..

In prewar Czechoslovakia, ALL minorities and Germans ( the largest minority) could keep their names, could be (and were) elected to the parliament, had at least 3 ministers in the Government. In any section of the country with a minimum of 20% of a minority had the right to educated their children in German, conduct business in German, had all Czech or local governments mandated German as one of the official languages, signs were mandated bilingual ... etc, etc. Even the worst of the worst Karl Hermann Frank ( hung by the Czechs after the war) was a member of the Czechoslovak parliament where he ( as well as all other German parliamentarians) were allowed to make speeches in German, Prague even had German University....nor mentioning the multitude of German newspapers, books and radio stations.


In the Ukraine today : Anything Russian had to be changed into Ukrainian including names, that is why all Vladimirs and Volodymirs, all Igors are Ihors and even Kiev know by this name for 100s of years is now Kyiv. The original names of people are NOT recognised. Russian speaking " minority" ( this minority has in Crimea about 80 % in Luhansk and Donetsk over 50 %) has NO Russian schools, NO newspapers, NO TV or radio stations, NOT even a recognition as a minority in the Ukrainian constitution, banned 1000 years old religion, and build statues to Nazi Bandera...If Czechs did to the Germans what is Ukraine doing to Russians, I would have supported the Munich treaty !

Also It is quite funny: Almost 30 years ago Latvia and Lithuania did the same thing to Ukrainians ( as well as Russians and Belarusians) and NOBODY gave a shit. Russia under Yelcin was to weak to do anything about it, yet these pipsqueak Baltics are provoking Russians into a conflict, you poke the bear you may have to fight him.... and the EU just as stupid. After this year's 80 anniversary of dropping the A bombs on Japan all these idiots think that their drones and tanks will stop the apocalypse.

 

[Celand]

Sounds like Witkoff has no idea what he's saying or negotiating and Trump may have been misled. Zelensky has already made it plain the answer to Witkoff's nonsense is a "no" and the whole thing is dead in the water.

Trimp's going to look like more of an idiot than he already does and he will no doubt try to take it out on Ukraine and blame Zelensky.

France, Germany and the UK should make it plain to him that all he needs to do is STFU and sell weapons to Europe to hand over to Ukraine. That's all Trump needs to do.

View attachment 2557422View attachment 2557427

Here is my prediction. Trump will cut a deal with Putin, which Zelensky will reject since he still believes that the Europe will support him endlessly. Trump ( will wash his hands of the Ukraine not to piss of the MAGAs even more). Europe will find the hard way how to bankrupt itself quickly, but Putin will save Europe by pushing the Ukrainian army to a total collapse ( before Europe go broke) and there will be a new " Maidan" after Zelensky exiles himself. All this will be completed by the end of the year.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Denys and the Saratov smoking incident

- Multiple Ukrainian drone strikes - "many drones" according to locals, multiple fires
- Saratov Refinery likely now down for years
- Ukraine has intensified strikes on refineries over the last few days. In the last week, Russian has lost 10% of their oil refinery capabilities
- Trump may want to halt strkes on Russian oil refineries as part of his butt-fucking by Putin, but at this point, given the US attitude and attempts to force Ukraine to capitulate, it's certain that Ukraine will turn deaf ears to any request the US might make. And another refinery was also attacked last night - there are only 32 refineries in Russia. At one a night......

- Another channel pointed out that Ukraine waited until Russia repaired many of their refineries with their limited parts supply. Now those parts are gone as well. And with sanctions in place, it will be months before they can smuggle in new parts.
- There was another video, Novokuybashevsk, a few days ago, the fireball was awesome, 1000 feet high!, the Ukrainian drone hit the bullseye, taking out the cracking unit that converts crude oil to fuel... according to comments, this is very complex thing and needs parts from all over the world, price between $ 500 million to 2 billion plus, to build it from scratch again takes normally 3 to 5 years

- A few economic commentators are saying that Russia is on the brink of economic catastrophe, and will collapse this year. Their National Wealth Fund will soon be broke, and Russia is unable to borrow from its citizens nor in the international markets despite proposed massive interest rate hikes. Very unlikely that the $327B frozen in European banks will ever go back to Russia.
- Russian oil revenue is dropping - down 27% in the last month. Economy is declining fast. Budget cuts likely to infrastructure projects in order to maintain military spending

Another take on the oil refinery strikes

 

[ChloeTzang]

Ukraine destroys Russian drone factory

Ukraine has just carried out one of the deepest, most devastating strikes of the war - Destroying a key Russian drone production facility over 1,000 kilometers (620 miles) inside Russian territory. This plant produced the Geran-2 drones, Russia’s copy of Iran’s Shahed-136, the same loitering munitions used to attack Odesa, Kharkiv, Dnipro, Kherson, and Kyiv. By wiping out this plant, Ukraine has crippled the Kremlin’s ability to replace these drones quickly – cutting Russia’s capacity for long-range strikes on Ukrainian cities. The hit came after Ukrainian forces destroyed the 90th Air Defense Brigade in Krasnodar Krai, clearing a corridor through southern Russia’s air defenses.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Moscow Coup Chatter EXPLODES:​

Chatter indicates that Moscow’s generals are gathering in fear of their own shadows. A simmering military coup inside Russia’s General Staff is not ideological theatrics - it is a desperate, preemptive fight for survival. As battlefield failures mount, whispers trace back to Prigozhin’s ghost: mid-level officers plotting a swift seizure of power to stave off a regime purge. Ukrainian OSINT confirms gains of only 0.094% of Ukrainian land in July - the Kremlin trades a generation of Russians for a few muddy fields and some ruins. Drone interceptions, motorcycle micro-assaults, deep strikes on Saratov, and rapid leadership churn expose an unstable command structure.

Whether genuine or manufactured by the FSB, the coup narrative reveals an unraveling elite consensus surrounding Vladimir Putin. The implications are seismic: nuclear command credibility, NATO’s posture, and the upcoming US Trump meeting in Alaska. Every Russian refinery ablaze, every drone shot down, every officer sidelined deepens fissures in Kremlin cohesion for the Putin regime.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Zelensky Rejected Trump’s Deal | Putin Humiliates Trump​

Trump's call for swapping of territories is based on Witkoff's misunderstanding of the translation.
Russia wants Ukraine to leave it's fortifications in Donbas - no swap - just capitulation - and nothing in return but agreeing to start negotiations with Trump. Basically he always wants Ukraine to the Dnipro demilitarized and the negotiations may take years.
In other words, complete bullshit and we should expect nothing positive from Trump and Putin meeting. Putin is aming to cancel US military support for Ukraine and he's playing Trump to this end.

Meanwhile JD Wormtongue says the US is done with funding Ukraine war and supplying military packages, block existing packages, and it's up to Europe. But they will sell to Europe.
Ukraine army personnel who have gone to NATO countries for training are saying NATO armies should rather come to Ukraine for training.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Russia’s War Machine Is DRYING UP – The Numbers Are BRUTAL​

Russia’s war machine is unraveling. From drones to missiles, explosives to basic vehicle parts, critical shortages are crippling its ability to fight.

Years of overconfidence, sanctions, and outdated military doctrine have left the Kremlin’s forces burning through dwindling stockpiles and dragging relics out of storage. What was once sold as unstoppable power is now struggling to keep moving—literally—as the cracks in Russia’s military-industrial complex turn into a full-scale collapse.

 

[dmallord]

1.25 million by the end of the year.

Notice also how the tank and IFV losses have dropped to almost nothing. Russia just does not have any significant numbers left. They are now an infantry army, incapable of any rapid exploitation of breakthroughs and unable to react quickly.

View attachment 2557475

I saw those numbers drop. I leaned to toward the idea it was a Russian holiday and troops went home to celebrate. They need to add a space for oil refineries on that chart!

 

[ChloeTzang]

Lukoil Oil Refinery in Komi Republic hit....2000 kms inside Russia

 

[ChloeTzang]

Ukraine SHUTTING DOWN Russia's Oil Industry​

14% of Russia's oil production taken out in 8 days
Saratov Oil Refinery now ablaze - one of Russia's major refineries - 75% of the refinery is engulfed in flames, meaning it's probably irrepairable
Another drone strike on am pil refinery in the Komir Republic - loud explosions
These strikes are having a real impact on the Russian economy and the Russian financial budgets
Russian budget was built on $70 a barrel. It's well below that, denting the Russian budget. Refinery hits are cutting into exports.
Also targeting factories, storage depots and other industrial facilities
Liberating regions in Sumy from Russian invaders - Ukrainian forces are moving forward, driving the Russians back. General Lapin, who was in charge of the Russian invasion forces, has just been fired
Interesting take on Witkoff....