Toxic habits and tropes in "romance" novels?

What about whole other categories, like BDSM? It seems to me that calling erotica "toxic" is inappropriate.
This isn't about calling 'erotica' toxic. It's about romance novels - Mills & Boon and Barbara Cartland in the olden days, Twilight and its ilk more recently: all those stories with Alpha dudes and princes and that kind of thing 'rescuing' poor feeble females who can be so thankful that they can now stay at home and let the men do the difficult stuff like thinking, while they go all 'trad'.
 
This isn't about calling 'erotica' toxic. It's about romance novels - Mills & Boon and Barbara Cartland in the olden days, Twilight and its ilk more recently: all those stories with Alpha dudes and princes and that kind of thing 'rescuing' poor feeble females who can be so thankful that they can now stay at home and let the men do the difficult stuff like thinking, while they go all 'trad'.
I think it’s playing to the fantasy of being taken care of- of course it’s almost entirely ~physical~. I want to read about a MMC who takes care of her emotionally first.🫶
 
What is the obsession with the Alpha anyway? Most women, not all, but most, hate the concept of the Alpha, which not to get into an argument, is nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of the one calling themselves and Alpha. So why does it appear in Romance so much which is primarily geared towards women? And I think it was a fantastic observation by someone above to say the whole werewolf thing has nazi overtones, never thought of it like that, well done.
 
What is the obsession with the Alpha anyway? Most women, not all, but most, hate the concept of the Alpha, which not to get into an argument, is nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of the one calling themselves and Alpha. So why does it appear in Romance so much which is primarily geared towards women? And I think it was a fantastic observation by someone above to say the whole werewolf thing has nazi overtones, never thought of it like that, well done.

Well, I think the Alpha concept is something that got corrupted somewhere along the way.
If someone has to announce they are the Alpha, then they aren't.
 
What is the obsession with the Alpha anyway? Most women, not all, but most, hate the concept of the Alpha, which not to get into an argument, is nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of the one calling themselves and Alpha. So why does it appear in Romance so much which is primarily geared towards women? And I think it was a fantastic observation by someone above to say the whole werewolf thing has nazi overtones, never thought of it like that, well done.
It has no more to do with real life than BDSM. Why the obsession with romance tropes?
 
The JAG Marine, the Good Witch (TV series and TV movies), Army Wifes, and Lifetime network Diva in Residence, Catherine Bell.
One of the few movies I turned off midway ... just too unpleasant.


I tried to like The Good Witch series of films. The first one was OK, but after that, they just got too sappy. The stories got all muddled up.
 
It has no more to do with real life than BDSM. Why the obsession with romance tropes?

The OP was about Romance tropes. The tropes are rather frequently a topic among romance writers, and Romance is this huge, very commercial genre in mainstream literature. BDSM has a place in erotic romance, but otherwise, as categories go, Romance dwarfs other erotic or quasi-erotic genres, including BDSM.

Romance isn't so prominent on Lit, probably because the genre calls for more development than many Lit readers enjoy or will even tolerate.
 
The JAG Marine, the Good Witch (TV series and TV movies), Army Wifes, and Lifetime network Diva in Residence, Catherine Bell.
She was one of the reasons I watched The Good Witch at all. But even her smile and smokiness couldn't get me past the sappiness of the show.

They went full Hallmark.
 
Romance isn't so prominent on Lit, probably because the genre calls for more development than many Lit readers enjoy or will even tolerate.
My experience is that the readers will more than tolerate it. At least in the non-toxic categories. I write mostly some form of romance now and I don't feel abused by the readers. My Nude Day entry was definitely all character development and very romance-y. but still got me a blue W.

I will not write what I consider to be the toxic tropes, like Alpha male or princess needing rescuing. Someone earlier had included love at first sight and enemies to lovers as toxic tropes. I agree they may be tropes, but I find no harm in either of them. My novel that just went up was definitely love at first sight for the MMC. I guess if it turns into stalking, I would consider it toxic and stay away. I have not written a true enemies to lovers trope yet, but I expect I will someday, probably in the not too distant future.
 
My experience is that the readers will more than tolerate it. At least in the non-toxic categories. I write mostly some form of romance now and I don't feel abused by the readers. My Nude Day entry was definitely all character development and very romance-y. but still got me a blue W.
No doubt that romantic elements are very popular on Lit, but Romances and stories with romantic elements aren't the same thing. We have a Romance category for actual Romances. It's a smaller category (in terms of number of stories) than (for instance) BDSM, Fetish, Group Sex, E&V, GM, and NC/R.

I have four stories in Romance. But for the one with the blue W that spent years on the first page of the Most Popular list, they're all in the lower half of my stories for views. I think every one of them (including the most popular) has had at least one complaint about long development and/or little sex.

If the popularity of fictional genres on Lit followed the same pattern as they do in the larger market, then Romance would be one of the largest, most-read categories. The situation is similar for SciFi/Fantasy. By some measures, that's the most popular genre in fiction, but it's a fairly low-traffic category on Lit.
 
A certain game I play has been showing me extracts from 'erotic romances' from an app/publisher called Galatea (a bit dodgy to anyone who recognises the name from Greek mythology).

They all have various tribes of huge Alpha males, often werewolves, or college footballers, looking to take a mate, and a young woman age 18-19 who has never been interested in men but then one day an Alpha (their wording...) trips over her and growls that he's having her... and her groin flutters with novel sensations...

The tagline is "50 Shades can't hold a candle to this!!!" and indeed, the prose is such that 50 Shades actually looks good in comparison.

I've never managed more than a few pages before my brain screams it's starting to rot, but invariably there's a section where the whole plot would be resolved if two people would actually just bloody talk to each other...

On Lit and elsewhere I often nope out of a story when a Manly Stud tells the previously competent woman that he's booked a restaurant/arranged a holiday/told her boss she's taking leave - all sorts that in 99% of real scenarios would have her yelling "What the fuck?" When I was growing up it was pretty much every 'romance' I ever saw.

A certain game I play has been showing me extracts from 'erotic romances' from an app/publisher called Galatea (a bit dodgy to anyone who recognises the name from Greek mythology).

They all have various tribes of huge Alpha males, often werewolves, or college footballers, looking to take a mate, and a young woman age 18-19 who has never been interested in men but then one day an Alpha (their wording...) trips over her and growls that he's having her... and her groin flutters with novel sensations...

The tagline is "50 Shades can't hold a candle to this!!!" and indeed, the prose is such that 50 Shades actually looks good in comparison.

I've never managed more than a few pages before my brain screams it's starting to rot, but invariably there's a section where the whole plot would be resolved if two people would actually just bloody talk to each other...

On Lit and elsewhere I often nope out of a story when a Manly Stud tells the previously competent woman that he's booked a restaurant/arranged a holiday/told her boss she's taking leave - all sorts that in 99% of real scenarios would have her yelling "What the fuck?" When I was growing up it was pretty much every 'romance' I ever saw.

You could easily ki-generate that. In my country it is called "housewife porn" which of course is also a sexist and problematic notion.
 
If the popularity of fictional genres on Lit followed the same pattern as they do in the larger market, then Romance would be one of the largest, most-read categories. The situation is similar for SciFi/Fantasy. By some measures, that's the most popular genre in fiction, but it's a fairly low-traffic category on Lit.
Maybe it is because I do not generally write in one of the heavily viewed categories here. but Romance's viewership does not bother me. I know some authors want the big numbers that they can get it T/I. But I really see that as the oddball, along with a very few other categories like LW. I suspect Romance is fairly centrist in its average viewership for the site.

I wonder if the lack of availability of incest stories in mainstream literature is why you see the reverse appeal of readership here. Certainly, there is plenty of erotically charged romantic literature available more broadly.
 
I suspect Romance is fairly centrist in its average viewership for the site.

I don't find it very centrist. Romance is quite skewed. It is probably the narrowest category and the easiest category to score in so long as you don't stray from that narrow. There are some truly awful cardboard plots that score 4.75 and up with dozens of glowing comments there.
 
I don't find it very centrist. Romance is quite skewed. It is probably the narrowest category and the easiest category to score in so long as you don't stray from that narrow. There are some truly awful cardboard plots that score 4.75 and up with dozens of glowing comments there.

People like to say incest stories are low hanging fruit, so easy and they can be bad and still get numbers, blah blah.

Truth is, Romance is as easy as it gets, providing you'll finish with a HEA ending.

If its what people like to read and write that's fine, but the idea its a tough category to write in is inaccurate to put it mildly.
 
Hermione giving up her standards and big dreams to marry Ron. :D

Twilight is just one big parody, but also the whole nice guy who's unjustly friendzoned trope.
 
I wonder if the lack of availability of incest stories in mainstream literature is why you see the reverse appeal of readership here. Certainly, there is plenty of erotically charged romantic literature available more broadly.
Possibly more about other erotica sites. Most of the sites that compete with Literotica ban incest, so those stories and readers all end up here.
 
Possibly more about other erotica sites. Most of the sites that compete with Literotica ban incest, so those stories and readers all end up here.
You've never been on Archive of our own, no age restricting and sooo creepy. James Potter and little girl Harry creepy. ;o
 
I don't find it very centrist. Romance is quite skewed. It is probably the narrowest category and the easiest category to score in so long as you don't stray from that narrow. There are some truly awful cardboard plots that score 4.75 and up with dozens of glowing comments there.
I meant centrist in views. It is definitely not centrist in reaction. Higher scores, more comments and more votes than typical as I understand it typically and my own dcperience
 
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