Comments vs scoring vs Author's feelings

[djrip]

Yeah, there is a formula, raising a cock or making a pussy wet is not gonna get you a good score in LW.

I don't know, works pretty well for me.

 

[Gamblnluck]

They are polar opposites within the same category. It would be like have an audience in Lesbian with 40% of the readers HATING and 1-bombing every story there which involves lesbians.

Soo, you can't compare stories within LW with each other, because a good sharing story will rate much lower than a poorly written BURN.

There are very few 'sharing' stories that might not be better in fetish the way they are written. The problem is getting the reader to understand WHY a husband or wife would want to watch the spouse having sex with another. Yes, a guy into video porn might look at it as another scene. The same guy would love to see his wife masturbating, with or without toys.
The problem is, in most of these stories, it is NOT that the woman simply gets screwed. It's that she forms a bit of a relationship with the other man. She dances, dates etc. Basically she is circumventing the marriage. That is why many of the readers cannot relate.
In others, the husband watches his wife screw a dozen guys. (because with female anatomy, she can) while at best, hubbie gets two rounds. She comes home thrilled with the experience and wants to go back for more.
Often the stories have the woman tell the husband she is all he needs. She wears him out, gets him to expend his efforts two or three times with her and then wants her other partners.
Look at the stories and see if these are not the basic plots to many of the simple sharing stories. In many, the wife turns into a bitch. She wants her cake (sex with others) but not for her husband to have his. After all she is enough woman WHEN she decides. Again, not something a reader feels good about.
And when the reader cannot put himself into the characters and find some level of logical acceptance at the least, he is NOT going to rate it highly. He is instead bothered by the story and not in a good way like watching horror film and jumping when the guy with the machete jumps out.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I don't know, works pretty well for me.

I see you wrote 3 stories there in the past 10 years. I'll have to read them to see how they were handled. I'll see if they were simple jerk off fodder or what.

 

[Gamblnluck]

A story vote is a judgment and a judgment is a measurement, although in most cases a less precise one than one made with a ruler or a stop watch. But it is still a measurement, and each story vote is a measurement made by comparing the reading experience of the story to the personal criteria. Some readers may have very precise criteria, others extremely vague, but it is still a comparison to criteria which measures and determines the voted score.

Exactly. Which is why an author cannot say their story was better or worse than another story. It is simply how that particular story was judged by the readership. If they liked it or not. It has nothing to do with other stories. Simply the audience and how you resonated with them.

For a while, I have been working a very long saga featuring judicial slavery. I wrote a side story that was still 116k words long over 9 chapters. I had readers practically frothing at the mouth disgusted at how I'd let the MC be demeaned. They'd tell me any man in his position would go berserk. I got PM's. Even my beta readers wondered if I'd written myself into a corner and they had a few chapters advance notice.
But I wrote that story to suit what I felt was warranted. The MC was saved at the end. At least he had a future.
Think of star wars. Would it have been as popular if Luke had failed, and Leah had been put into chains after the alliance had been defeated?

 

[MillieDynamite]

Interesting concept. Similar to how those who fought the Roman Empire for centuries ended up defeated, enslaved, forced to fight each other for their master's pleasure, and their women fucked while they helplessly watched their conquerors humiliate them and their family. I could write that story.

Think of star wars. Would it have been as popular if Luke had failed, and Leah had been put into chains after the alliance had been defeated?

 

[djrip]

I see you wrote 3 stories there in the past 10 years. I'll have to read them to see how they were handled. I'll see if they were simple jerk off fodder or what.

I try to do strokers as well written and fun as I can make them. But the stroking is the main thing.

 

[Lifestyle66]

There are very few 'sharing' stories that might not be better in fetish the way they are written. The problem is getting the reader to understand WHY a husband or wife would want to watch the spouse having sex with another. Yes, a guy into video porn might look at it as another scene. The same guy would love to see his wife masturbating, with or without toys.
The problem is, in most of these stories, it is NOT that the woman simply gets screwed. It's that she forms a bit of a relationship with the other man. She dances, dates etc. Basically she is circumventing the marriage. That is why many of the readers cannot relate.
In others, the husband watches his wife screw a dozen guys. (because with female anatomy, she can) while at best, hubbie gets two rounds. She comes home thrilled with the experience and wants to go back for more.
Often the stories have the woman tell the husband she is all he needs. She wears him out, gets him to expend his efforts two or three times with her and then wants her other partners.
Look at the stories and see if these are not the basic plots to many of the simple sharing stories. In many, the wife turns into a bitch. She wants her cake (sex with others) but not for her husband to have his. After all she is enough woman WHEN she decides. Again, not something a reader feels good about.
And when the reader cannot put himself into the characters and find some level of logical acceptance at the least, he is NOT going to rate it highly. He is instead bothered by the story and not in a good way like watching horror film and jumping when the guy with the machete jumps out.

Most of my stories in LW are about swingers and sharing. But given your limited examples, you seem to think that means a one-for-one exchange. If the wife gets one other guy, then then husband gets one other woman. But if the woman get two different guys, then the husband gets two. And if the husband can't handle a second woman, then it's unfair.

In that scenario of one-to-one exchange, that's the "male fragile ego" and it's basically selfish and unfair to the woman.

Well balanced and successful swinger marriages recognize it's not about the numbers or individual limitations. It's about satisfaction, and what the two in the marriage agree upon to each get what they need and want (as long as they're not harming the other.)

A couple might agree to go to a swinger party for an evening. Whether they agree to stay in the same room or separate, it's about their rules and what they are comfortable with. But when it comes to numbers of partners or number of times, it's about their agreed upon time limit. If the husband is worn out with two different women and the wife wants five different guys, there's nothing wrong with them both getting what they want. Unless the husband's insecurity and jealousy intervenes, they both get what they want for the evening.

If the husband can't handle that, then he shouldn't have agreed to go to the party. But it is his insecurity and immaturity that's the problem. His attitude is "We can only swap as long as I need to and can still perform." Those are the swinger couples who eventually divorce, when the wife realizes how over-controlling and needy he is.

I get my info from real life people and couples. And some couples I know have been married swingers for decades, and still happily married.

EDIT: Try reading my story linked below "A Band of Sisters and Brothers" to see one guy going through the learning curve of dealing with the angst of those number imbalances.

 

[djrip]

Interesting concept. Similar to how those who fought the Roman Empire for centuries ended up defeated, enslaved, forced to fight each other for their master's pleasure, and their women fucked while they helplessly watched their conquerors humiliate them and their family. I could write that story.

I haven't finished mistborn but similar idea, it's set after the big bad conquered the known world and now rules the ruins.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Interesting concept. Similar to how those who fought the Roman Empire for centuries ended up defeated, enslaved, forced to fight each other for their master's pleasure, and their women fucked while they helplessly watched their conquerors humiliate them and their family. I could write that story.

And for the most part the defeated were too cowed to effectively rebel. Spartacus did and look where that got him and his followers. Those not killed on the battlefield were crucified. You have to wonder how those gladiators were really kept so they did not attack and kill their owners.

It begs to to question some of the pony play stories, were the person is told he/she is a permanent slave. To me that would not go. People do not turn into brainless idiots. At some point, the slave pony would have enough and run out into traffic killing himself and his rider. but of course that is not kinky, so they are happy to be live their fetish life in the story with no hope of an end.

 

[Gamblnluck]

If the husband can't handle that, then he shouldn't have agreed to go to the party. But it is his insecurity and immaturity that's the problem. His attitude is "We can only swap as long as I need to and can still perform." Those are the swinger couples who eventually divorce, when the wife realizes how over-controlling and needy he is.

I get my info from real life people and couples. And some couples I know have been married swingers for decades, and still happily married.

Most of the stories are not written that way. It turns to the guy sitting there twiddling his thumbs for hours while his wife is made air tight. She goes home looking at him like he is a failure. Her needs begin to over-ride the marriage and the man is expected to comply, and give her space to play with or without him.
In many, he listens to toher telling her lovers to breed her and get her pregnant. In other words it is not a simple sharing event, but a cuckold experience.
That is the point where many of the readers say no.
In many of those stories, the other men are not treated as human dildos. They begin to supplant the husband. In many of course, the wife tells the husband verbally it is only the sex, but it even appears as lip service. The husband knows better.

Now I am talking about the stories. And those where the couple both entertain a sharing thing. Those stories are a very small minority. Most are of a cheating wife, going out screwing others while hubbie stays home waiting. When she finally comes home, hubby's job is to be happy, lick her out and/or 'reclaim' her. Until next time.

This rendition is why those stories get poor ratings. Get panned and insulted. Few men are willing to let their wives replace them, then kick them in the balls and tell them to like it or not. And even with the 'wholesome sharing experience' you described above you went with the trope of the 'fragile male ego'.
Those are three words that get a man pissed off. There are others.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Exactly. That is why I (and a couple of others here) have been advocating the 'Hot' rating be pegged to a percentile (say 80th) independently in each category. What the Red H does as of now is precisely what you say. It rewards 45% of all stories a gold 1st place ribbon. It's like kindergarten - everybody wins, yay! The Red H is supposed to indicate the cream of the crop, but we quickly realize that it does not. Not even close. It is meaningless.

But then you get into more complex coding issues.

It's quite easy to tag all stories at a 4.50 rating.

It's more involved to break them down the way you suggest. Who writes the code? Who maintains it? Keep in mind the site probably doesn't have an unlimited budget.

 

[djrip]

Most of the stories are not written that way. It turns to the guy sitting there twiddling his thumbs for hours while his wife is made air tight. She goes home looking at him like he is a failure. Her needs begin to over-ride the marriage and the man is expected to comply, and give her space to play with or without him.
In many, he listens to toher telling her lovers to breed her and get her pregnant. In other words it is not a simple sharing event, but a cuckold experience.
That is the point where many of the readers say no.
In many of those stories, the other men are not treated as human dildos. They begin to supplant the husband. In many of course, the wife tells the husband verbally it is only the sex, but it even appears as lip service. The husband knows better.

Now I am talking about the stories. And those where the couple both entertain a sharing thing. Those stories are a very small minority. Most are of a cheating wife, going out screwing others while hubbie stays home waiting. When she finally comes home, hubby's job is to be happy, lick her out and/or 'reclaim' her. Until next time.

This rendition is why those stories get poor ratings. Get panned and insulted. Few men are willing to let their wives replace them, then kick them in the balls and tell them to like it or not. And even with the 'wholesome sharing experience' you described above you went with the trope of the 'fragile male ego'.
Those are three words that get a man pissed off. There are others.

There's real life, where swingers may have a loving successful relationship if they are respectful of each other while they have fun exploring others, and then there are stories focusing on the cuck kink to varying degrees of extremity. If someone gets off on the idea of being humiliated, then those elements are what they are looking for in a story. Those stories are not for people who prefer a loving equitable sharing arrangement, not for those who prefer loyal monogamy. And even the people who enjoy the cuck kink are unlikely to want the extreme kinds of things they like reading about IRL. It's fantasy for the people who enjoy that kind of fantasy.

 

[Gamblnluck]

EDIT: Try reading my story linked below "A Band of Sisters and Brothers" to see one guy going through the learning curve of dealing with the angst of those number imbalances.

To be honest, I read it. It was simply a number of people screwing each other with no commitment to a spouse. Early your main protagonist was a twice divorced guy who didn't care where or what he screwed. He met a woman who supposedly once had some ideals and then gave them up as she became jaundiced.
You had some of the mentality right but no practical nurse/medic gives morphine in a domestic hospital.
Dan hated what his wife was doing but was too scared to either divorce her or too tired to dig a hole big enough to bury the body. In a way, with their mentality that would have been a statement/option he might have offered her.

 

[Gamblnluck]

There's real life, where swingers may have a loving successful relationship if they are respectful of each other while they have fun exploring others, and then there are stories focusing on the cuck kink to varying degrees of extremity. If someone gets off on the idea of being humiliated, then those elements are what they are looking for in a story. Those stories are not for people who prefer a loving equitable sharing arrangement, not for those who prefer loyal monogamy. And even the people who enjoy the cuck kink are unlikely to want the extreme kinds of things they like reading about IRL. It's fantasy for the people who enjoy that kind of fantasy.

Yes, and put those stories in fetish where they might get approval and get a 4 rating. You get a half dozen comments telling you wonderful job. Don't put that same story in LW and then complain the trolls hated your story and it got 2. Then they dissect your characters and plot.

Few really want to know what gets the best results in LW. It's like a quote that was attributed to Einsten in error that said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

 

[Lifestyle66]

To be honest, I read it. It was simply a number of people screwing each other with no commitment to a spouse. Early your main protagonist was a twice divorced guy who didn't care where or what he screwed. He met a woman who supposedly once had some ideals and then gave them up as she became jaundiced.
You had some of the mentality right but no practical nurse/medic gives morphine in a domestic hospital.
Dan hated what his wife was doing but was too scared to either divorce her or too tired to dig a hole big enough to bury the body. In a way, with their mentality that would have been a statement/option he might have offered her.

Again, you skimmed and missed key points about the main characters and even the facts.

Nurses do or at least did give morphine shots. I specifically said in the author's note "it's a confluence of memories over time, so don't get too focused on details like ..."

And the MC wasn't afraid of her. He was tired of serving in the military, only to return to nothing. He walked away from her in part 2. But his attitude evolved to better understand. WHY she did it. Those details come out repeatedly until part 4.

Did you understand her need and WHY?

 

[MillieDynamite]

The world's always been a fucked up place.

And for the most part the defeated were too cowed to effectively rebel. Spartacus did and look where that got him and his followers. Those not killed on the battlefield were crucified. You have to wonder how those gladiators were really kept so they did not attack and kill their owners.

It begs to to question some of the pony play stories, were the person is told he/she is a permanent slave. To me that would not go. People do not turn into brainless idiots. At some point, the slave pony would have enough and run out into traffic killing himself and his rider. but of course that is not kinky, so they are happy to be live their fetish life in the story with no hope of an end.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Exactly. Which is why an author cannot say their story was better or worse than another story. It is simply how that particular story was judged by the readership. If they liked it or not. It has nothing to do with other stories. Simply the audience and how you resonated with them.

Agree, but most writers here still try and still believe in the scores as an indicator of how good they are. When I try to point out the flaws in that theory I get shit thrown at me and my catalog bombed.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But then you get into more complex coding issues.

It's quite easy to tag all stories at a 4.50 rating.

It's more involved to break them down the way you suggest. Who writes the code? Who maintains it? Keep in mind the site probably doesn't have an unlimited budget.

Calculating percentiles is not hard and not expensive at all. Anyone who understands the math and a bit about code understands this. It could be implemented in an afternoon, and once it's running, the extra server load is trivial.

 

[Actingup]

Calculating percentiles is not hard and not expensive at all. Anyone who understands the math and a bit about code understands this. It could be implemented in an afternoon, and once it's running, the extra server load is trivial.

PSG is exactly right. There are still wrinkles such as whether the percentiles are calculated for all-time or as a rolling statistic. And doing it for each category still doesn't address the variations within each category (such as the difference between a cuckold and burn-the-bitch in Loving Wives). But, in principle, every story rating could have a little bracketed entry next to it showing how it rates against other stories in the category, or even against others with the same tag combinations, or more complicated things.

Whether there is a compelling reason for the site owners to do so when compared to other priorities is another story. If I was on the Board right now, I think I'd probably be worrying about the potential for moving the site offshore to account for legislative uncertainies, about the degreee of monetisation, about the site's resilience to cyberintrusions, the flexibiilty of the platform, and other issues like that. The Author Experience wouldn't be very high on the list.

 

[UnexpectedLuggage]

I mostly write to get ideas out of my head, and figure others might enjoy reading them as well.

I tend to base my satisfaction on favorites, and enjoy reading the comments from people.

That said, some comments are pretty worthless. Like this one I got:

"**This is part two of a series that begins with "My Day With Kelly and Noel." "

I hate, hate, HATE opening a story and only then reading information like that. I hate, hate, HATE typists who change the titles of chapters. I hate, hate, HATE ANY story longer than 4 Literotica pages.

Just made me laugh, and then be confused why the need to comment at all if you aren't gonna read it. There are plenty of stories I start and then bail on and I don't leave comments because why bother?

 

[TiberiusPrime]

I love comments on my stories, but I now refuse to have anonymous comments. For years I allowed it, but then I decided to dive into the pit of despair that is Loving Wives and far too many commentators were hiding behind their anonymity with some of their harsh comments. I don't mind negative, constructive comments, but if you're just going to be an asshole about it, I'll make you use your online name. It's amazing how doing that one little thing essentially eliminated such comments.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Nurses do or at least did give morphine shots.

Yeah, registered nurses. Medics do it only on the battle field. They are LPN's in the civilian world or in stateside hospitals. I'm not sure if you served or not. I found some of your depictions grating, but I will agree soldiers are NOT all that honorable. A person with an asshole mentality generally finds himself in trouble, though. It may be different now, but a wife did not get half the man's retirement until they were married over 10 years. He might even have to pay for her to receive survivor's benefits. I know several wives who would not get it once their husbands die because their husbands elected to not pay.
I will try to go back and see how you 'changed the character's position/character' later in the story. But early on, they were pretty much assholes. They were out for number one and only that. The man I mentioned who hated his wife cheating but felt he had to put up with it was a secondary character.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Yeah, registered nurses. Medics do it only on the battle field. They are LPN's in the civilian world or in stateside hospitals. I'm not sure if you served or not. I found some of your depictions grating, but I will agree soldiers are NOT all that honorable. A person with an asshole mentality generally finds himself in trouble, though. It may be different now, but a wife did not get half the man's retirement until they were married over 10 years. He might even have to pay for her to receive survivor's benefits. I know several wives who would not get it once their husbands die because their husbands elected to not pay.
I will try to go back and see how you 'changed the character's position/character' later in the story. But early on, they were pretty much assholes. They were out for number one and only that. The man I mentioned who hated his wife cheating but felt he had to put up with it was a secondary character.

You apparently didn't serve in the military.

She's a Practical Nurse now, she just started as a combat medic. I don't know the license level of the nurse in the ward who routinely checked my pulse and BP, then one time came at me with the morphine shot already drawn, saying my pulse was far too high at 140 BPM. (Yes, I refused the shot and paced the ward that evening, morphine is THAT addictive!) And 18Ds are not LPNs, yet they carry morphine to use in non-combat areas. But that's a minor point. Tina didn't say SHE was authorized to decide on giving morphine. She said the doctor told her they were reducing the patient's use due to addiction.

Eric never said his ex-wives were getting his retirement pay or survivor benefits. He only said those sluts got his kids.

And they never said soldiers are not honorable, Eric merely said he did see any honor in fighting against or defending evil anymore, because he saw as much in his own country.

So, it seems you read FAR TOO FAST or possibly read some other story. You MISS all of the pertinent character-building details, and you pass judgement (as I said in the Author's Note) based on an inability to comprehend. You came into the story having already judged the characters and setting, rather than make any attempt to draw out the story's lesson.

If you choose to re-read the story, focus on the details of Eric no longer caring what any woman shoves into herself, because he won't allow them to define him. Then look for WHY Tina needs her "fix". Also look for what he gets out of the whole relationship with the scene the evening before his latest deployment.

Edit: I just realized the secondary character who put up with his cheating wife was Dan. He stated he did so in order to not lose contact with his kids, and because he'd be forced to pay his ex after divorce since she had no job.

 

[SimonDoom]

PSG is exactly right. There are still wrinkles such as whether the percentiles are calculated for all-time or as a rolling statistic. And doing it for each category still doesn't address the variations within each category (such as the difference between a cuckold and burn-the-bitch in Loving Wives). But, in principle, every story rating could have a little bracketed entry next to it showing how it rates against other stories in the category, or even against others with the same tag combinations, or more complicated things.

Whether there is a compelling reason for the site owners to do so when compared to other priorities is another story. If I was on the Board right now, I think I'd probably be worrying about the potential for moving the site offshore to account for legislative uncertainies, about the degreee of monetisation, about the site's resilience to cyberintrusions, the flexibiilty of the platform, and other issues like that. The Author Experience wouldn't be very high on the list.

I've long favored incorporating a category-based percentile score. It's not perfect, but it conveys more meaningful information to the reader than what we currently have, and that's what the purpose of a score is.

Based on what I've seen and read here for 9 years, and my communications with Laurel and Manu, I think the scoring system is something they have considered and they do not believe there is sufficient reason to change it. I think it's a low priority compared to other priorities, such as reorganizing and updating site pages.

 

[Gamblnluck]

You apparently didn't serve in the military.

She's a Practical Nurse now, she just started as a combat medic. I don't know the license level of the nurse in the ward who routinely checked my pulse and BP, then one time came at me with the morphine shot already drawn, saying my pulse was far too high at 140 BPM. (Yes, I refused the shot and paced the ward that evening, morphine is THAT addictive!) And 18Ds are not LPNs, yet they carry morphine to use in non-combat areas. But that's a minor point. Tina didn't say SHE was authorized to decide on giving morphine. She said the doctor told her they were reducing the patient's use due to addiction.

Eric never said his ex-wives were getting his retirement pay or survivor benefits. He only said those sluts got his kids.

And they never said soldiers are not honorable, Eric merely said he did see any honor in fighting against or defending evil anymore, because he saw as much in his own country.

So, it seems you read FAR TOO FAST or possibly read some other story. You MISS all of the pertinent character-building details, and you pass judgement (as I said in the Author's Note) based on an inability to comprehend. You came into the story having already judged the characters and setting, rather than make any attempt to draw out the story's lesson.

If you choose to re-read the story, focus on the details of Eric no longer caring what any woman shoves into herself, because he won't allow them to define him. Then look for WHY Tina needs her "fix". Also look for what he gets out of the whole relationship with the scene the evening before his latest deployment.

Edit: I just realized the secondary character who put up with his cheating wife was Dan. He stated he did so in order to not lose contact with his kids, and because he'd be forced to pay his ex after divorce since she had no job.

Actually I did serve in the Army. I was both enlisted and officer. (I went to OCS). I was in Military Intelligence as an interrogator as an enlisted man. In language school I met a few special forces guys, plus a few other very interesting individuals. (Like top officers) After my discharge , I went to nursing school and some of my clinicals were at an Army base. I was an RN, so I know a little about that, too..
RN's in the military are officers. In the civilian world, there is a thing called licensing.