Story rejected for rule I’m certain I didn’t break

[KittyOfSteele]

It wasn't about "wrong words," it was about the (hypothetical or not, idk) intent to write a fully teenybopper themed story and try to "get out of jail free" by conveniently giving her an 18th birthday.

My mistake then. Got too enraged by the end. I'm not going to stop writing my shit because some Karens on Australia are b'awing "THiNk of ThE CHilDReN!" online, and the entire flock of dinosaurs dressed in suits are following through their authoritarianism. I already survived my own country doing Soviet-style censorship last year; you think those neo-nuns scare me? They can all make a line to suck my girl cock for all I care.

 

[TexasKatie]

Now I'm not familiar with the USA terms, but a quick search on "high school senior" I see it means 17 or 18 years old. This is most likely the problem.

Here on lit they try to weed out any stories than can be read in a way that break the rules. This is to try to not be a home for "secret" child pornography stories. Something I personally agree with.

Even if your characters are all described as 18, they might read as under 18. To prevent this I would cut out some "short cuts" in writing. Things like "high school" can do a lot of work for you, but simply "school" can suffice. An 18yo at a school can set the setting just as well. It also prevents alienating your audience, as we're a diverse bunch. Many of us do not know "high school," or have a warped sense of it thanks to media like TV.

After removing this context, it would be good to reduce the amount of "girl" mentions. It is of course a shot in the dark for me as I didn't read your story, but this can be another source. Once more, if it can read like she's under age, it can be rejected. If the older boys/coach keep engaging with her as if she's under age, for example by calling her "girl" constantly, it can be rejected.

So my best advice it to read your story again, seeking out where your story can be interpreted as under age. When you find it, change it. If she reads as an adult most of the time, a "girl" mention isn't bad.

As I wrote above, the quarterback character is described as flirting with her and pursuing her after she also turned 18. I don't even describe him trying to hold her hand or smile at her before she's 18.

The character is called by her name a lot and most of the time she's called "girl" it's by someone saying "good girl" to her; if that phrase is banned the whole BDSM section will have to be deleted off this site and probably big chunks of others too lol.

I turned 18 before graduation and a lot of my class did too. I do not think Texas schools are on a totally different schedule or starting age than the rest of the US.

And I'm not going to apologize for being irritated at people accusing me of trying to "sneak" a "child porn" or "teenybopper" story through. I wrote a story about a legal adult having sex with other legal adults. The main character is described as 5'9" tall and with physically adult features. This is absolutely not a case of some childlike character who's called legally 18 but is meant to create a fantasy of an underage sexual partner.

I'm seeing little chance of anything more productive coming out of this thread. A few of the rational people have kindly offered to review the story. I'm going to take some time and think because honestly at this point, doing more work on the awful U/I here and no idea if there's any hope the story will ever get approved just has me more inclined to revise it to a college setting but post it elsewhere or just share it with friends. This shit is supposed to be fun, y'all. Keep your crankiness and misery and lectures to yourself. I am uninterested and not ashamed of the story I wrote.

 

[Bazzle]

It’s a private school and that short plaid skirt is part of the plot, in ways that I’m sure y’all can imagine

There’s also a bit where the coach has taken over uniform orders from the assistant principal and he and other male teachers alter the orders for the hot senior girls once they turn 18. The main character can’t figure out why her skirt is so short and her shirt is too tight too.

I could rewrite it for college but would have to eliminate all the uniform stuff

It's the school setting, I've written a short skirt uniform "finishing school" story where everyone has to be over 18 to be there, but you are setting it in a school environment.

 

[TexasKatie]

@TexasKatie - you’ve had like five bona fide authors offer to help. I’d say take at least one of them up on the offer.

Personally, obviously people under 18 have sex (not me, except with myself, and sadly not for lack of trying). But the laws are there for a reason. I have no problem with the site rejecting anything where any protagonist is under 18. It’s not a creative hindrance to any story I want to write.

But saying that it’s not OK to include an 18 year old adult having sex seems a draconian over reaction. If that 18 year old adult happens to be in the final stages of their high school senior year, they are still an 18 year old adult. The rule is age-based.

well by the letter of the rule it's age based, but the story got rejected repeatedly even though no one is under 18 or described as looking or pretending to be under 18 ... and yet commenters here are 1) certainly acting like high school stories are verboten now in a secret unwritten new rule and 2) baselessly accusing me of trying to "sneak" a kiddie porn story onto the site.

see my comment above, I have messaged some of the rational people who offered to review the story but at this point inclined to not submit it here ever.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

And I'm not going to apologize for being irritated at people accusing me of trying to "sneak" a "child porn" or "teenybopper" story through. I wrote a story about a legal adult having sex with other legal adults. The main character is described as 5'9" tall and with physically adult features. This is absolutely not a case of some childlike character who's called legally 18 but is meant to create a fantasy of an underage sexual partner.

I think this is the red flag that you're dealing with. Rules as written sound like it allows this, but rules as intended doesn't allow this type of age play. This is my interpretation without looking into the story though, so take it more as a clue rather than gospel.

 

[TexasKatie]

It's the school setting, I've written a short skirt uniform "finishing school" story where everyone has to be over 18 to be there, but you are setting it in a school environment.

Then. The. Mods. Should. Say. That's. The. Rule.

I searched through threads here to find an answer, saw a lot of discussion of not being allowed to have characters described as looking underage, adult characters describing sexual activities they had before they were 18, or adult characters being attracted to underage characters (even if waiting until they're 18). I didn't find anything saying high school was verboten and people are trying to attack me for it.

Zero apologies for not knowing unwritten rules. "No high school" is not on the FAQ. It's not in pinned threads.

 

[EmilyMiller]

well by the letter of the rule it's age based, but the story got rejected repeatedly even though no one is under 18 or described as looking or pretending to be under 18 ... and yet commenters here are 1) certainly acting like high school stories are verboten now in a secret unwritten new rule and 2) baselessly accusing me of trying to "sneak" a kiddie porn story onto the site.

see my comment above, I have messaged some of the rational people who offered to review the story but at this point inclined to not submit it here ever.

I don’t think you fully realize how kind people are being to you. Offering to read a random stranger’s story when you could be beta reading for a friend or writing your own stuff? That’s a big deal. And some truly excellent authors have offered to help. Don’t get upset about the noise. Many people have extended a hand to you. That doesn’t happpen too often. Treasure the offers.

 

[TexasKatie]

I don’t think you fully realize how kind people are being to you. Offering to read a random stranger’s story when you could be beta reading for a friend or writing your own stuff? That’s a big deal. And some truly excellent authors have offered to help. Don’t get upset about the noise. Many people have extended a hand to you. That doesn’t happpen too often. Treasure the offers.

I'm obviously not mad about the kind people who offered to read the story. I appreciate them, I've said so here and in messages to them.

I'm irritated at the people who accused me of being some sort of deviant or trying to sneak kiddie porn on the site. I'm not sorry at all for saying I didn't appreciate that and I'm not taking it back.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'm obviously not mad about the kind people who offered to read the story. I appreciate them, I've said so here and in messages to them.

I'm irritated at the people who accused me of being some sort of deviant or trying to sneak kiddie porn on the site. I'm not sorry at all for saying I didn't appreciate that and I'm not taking it back.

I know it’s upsetting. But no one here knows you. I’d just say step back and take the very generous offers of help. There are some lovely people here.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I'm obviously not mad about the kind people who offered to read the story. I appreciate them, I've said so here and in messages to them.

I'm irritated at the people who accused me of being some sort of deviant or trying to sneak kiddie porn on the site. I'm not sorry at all for saying I didn't appreciate that and I'm not taking it back.

And context, threads like yours are dime a dozen here. You may well be acting in good faith, but plenty of people want to write young teen porn and find a way to get around the rules. When you’ve seen fifty such threads, your reaction is going to be jaundiced.

Try not to take it personally (says the queen of taking things personally ).

 

[Britva415]

This is absolutely not a case of some childlike character who's called legally 18 but is meant to create a fantasy of an underage sexual partner.

I believe you, and it seems that one of two things is true:

Either it is not clear to Laurel that nobody is under 18, as written, or, it is not clear to Laurel that it isn't that backdoor ageplay kind of story, as intended.

So, what do you think about using that information to review your own story, carefully looking for anything which may be in it and may have caused that disclarity?

I mean, you're free to just drop it if you'd rather not try to get it published. If you do want to, then, you have a lot of good suggestions about how to address the concern the reviewer called out - even if your story is already "literally legal" by the letter of the rules.

Also: You don't have to take someone explaining to you what kind of look the moderator doesn't approve as an accusation against you directly. We're just providing information to you which you're free to do what you want with, as far as getting published goes. Telling why the moderator won't approve something with that look, and saying that there are people do try to sneak teenybopper stories in this way, isn't the same as accusing you of having that same bad taste and bad faith.

I did say that the intent to write that kind of story was "hypothetical or not, idk" at one point, but that was in response to something someone else said about something I said, which wasn't even about your story specifically. The reason I said that was to make clear that instead of just being taken as sounding like I meant that that intent was present on your part, I wanted to talk about that intent to the extent that anyone anywhere ever has it, and try to not make it about your specific story.

If I failed, I'm sorry.

 

[Voboy]

I had this with my very first story here and I was equally clueless as to the problem. What I’d suggest is that just saying - character X is 18 - may not be enough. Rejections could also be due to how she is described (looking underage) or how she behaves or talks (sounding underage).

I doubt it’s the use of ‘girl,’ I have that epithet used by thirty-something characters about themselves and others using it about them.

I’m not saying this is the case with you, but having the character in your mind as being - say - 16, and then just slapping a ‘she’s 18,’ in the text won’t fly.

This is extremely common, OP.

The site is wary about people who "want" to write underage stories, so they do... but then they hastily point out that everyone's eighteen.

You can't make your 18-year-olds look or act like 15- or 16-year olds, even unintentionally. They need to be built like adults, they need to talk like adults, they need to act like adults (albeit impulsive adults; that's okay). I get it; I've written (and read) dozens of stories in high schools, and I understand why the setting is hot. But the interactions between the characters, to the extent possible, need to be "adultish," not "childish."

 

[NotWise]

Then. The. Mods. Should. Say. That's. The. Rule.

I searched through threads here to find an answer, saw a lot of discussion of not being allowed to have characters described as looking underage, adult characters describing sexual activities they had before they were 18, or adult characters being attracted to underage characters (even if waiting until they're 18). I didn't find anything saying high school was verboten and people are trying to attack me for it.

Zero apologies for not knowing unwritten rules. "No high school" is not on the FAQ. It's not in pinned threads.

It isn't a rule. The current policy is relatively recent. If they wanted to ban stories set in high school then it would have been pretty easy for them to write that in.

Some, maybe all, of the authors who have read your story are known to Laurel. If they come back saying the story doesn't break rules as written, then you should be able to cite them in a note to the editor when you resubmit the story.

 

[TexasKatie]

Also: You don't have to take someone explaining to you what kind of look the moderator doesn't approve as an accusation against you directly. We're just providing information to you which you're free to do what you want with, as far as getting published goes. Telling why the moderator won't approve something with that look, and saying that there are people do try to sneak teenybopper stories in this way, isn't the same as accusing you of having that same bad taste and bad faith.

I did say that the intent to write that kind of story was "hypothetical or not, idk" at one point, but that was in response to something someone else said about something I said, which wasn't even about your story specifically. The reason I said that was to make clear that instead of just being taken as sounding like I meant that that intent was present on your part, I wanted to talk about that intent to the extent that anyone anywhere ever has it, and try to not make it about your specific story.

If I failed, I'm sorry.

Not mad at you. The issue was I said repeatedly that the characters were not underage, were not described as looking underage, did not mention underage people, did not mention anything that happened to them when they were underage, but there are a lot of comments on this thread saying I should have known my story wasn't ok, calling writing an 18 year old high school character a scheme to backdoor kiddie porn plus others trying to act like a short plain skirt on an adult is some sort of unacceptably deviant thing. I wrote a sex story. It's not kiddie porn. It's far less hardcore than a lot of stuff I've seen here (that I just click the tab closed and don't write anything attacking the author).

All in the context of me being unable to get a more specific response from the moderators other than "no underage" but they won't say what passage triggered the censor. And I searched the FAQs, pinned threads, and scrolled through threads but the ones I found about 18 year old stories being flagged as underage were discussing plot lines that described pre-adulthood sexual activities or thoughts, or portrayed the characters as looking underage. My story is clear that these are not just legally adult characters, they look like adults. A 5'9" woman who is described as physically mature is VERY different from petite little A-cup blonde with big eyes and a baby face, wearing childish clothes.

So for people to attack me and act like i'm an idiot because this has "already been discussed in so many threads," well no, that's not accurate at all. There is not anything that is easy to find that would have helped me understand this, and if y'all are thinking about some old threads from months or years ago that are buried a few pages deep, that's nonsense. All along my issue has been the lack of clarity. The "rules as written" and what several commenters have said the rules are simply do not match.

I respect that moderating a site like this is a huge undertaking, not just the time and energy, but because the legal issues seem to be getting increasingly insane. Clear rules and procedures would make it easier for them too.

 

[TexasKatie]

This is extremely common, OP.

The site is wary about people who "want" to write underage stories, so they do... but then they hastily point out that everyone's eighteen.

You can't make your 18-year-olds look or act like 15- or 16-year olds, even unintentionally. They need to be built like adults, they need to talk like adults, they need to act like adults (albeit impulsive adults; that's okay). I get it; I've written (and read) dozens of stories in high schools, and I understand why the setting is hot. But the interactions between the characters, to the extent possible, need to be "adultish," not "childish."

For the millionth time, none of the characters look underage, act underage, or speak underage. Not in any way whatsoever. I've lost count of how many times I've been accused of that on this thread so far and it's absolutely untrue.

FFS, the characters speak with proper grammar even though actual high schoolers (heck, most adults) don't because I don't want to write dumb characters. When a character is described as a virgin it's clear that character has an adult's understanding of sex, is not naive or ignorant about it, understands how the male and female bodies function, and knows what is happening and why their body and their partner's body is responding that way.

 

[NotWise]

So what are you doing about your problem?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Don't get too upset, O.P. This is you getting to know Authors' Hangout. There are nice and helpful people here. But implying that the website or Laurel might have made a mistake is akin to going to the Vatican and yelling that Jesus Christ is an asshole.

Take @RejectReality 's offer, he is a reasonable guy and a veteran of Literotica. I assume he will be able to shed some light on what might be the trigger. I hope he also posts the info here so people can stop implying stuff.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Could you have transposed 21 for 12? That happened to me.

 

[MrPixel]

Could you have transposed 21 for 12? That happened to me.

Or maybe 61 for 16? "But teach, it's in 'Mature!'"

 

[EmilyMiller]

For the millionth time, none of the characters look underage, act underage, or speak underage. Not in any way whatsoever. I've lost count of how many times I've been accused of that on this thread so far and it's absolutely untrue.

FFS, the characters speak with proper grammar even though actual high schoolers (heck, most adults) don't because I don't want to write dumb characters. When a character is described as a virgin it's clear that character has an adult's understanding of sex, is not naive or ignorant about it, understands how the male and female bodies function, and knows what is happening and why their body and their partner's body is responding that way.

These are very experienced - and in @Voboy’s case very good - authors trying to help you. I get the red mist is down. Take a breath and then ask for help.

 

[EmilyMiller]

These are very experienced - and in @Voboy’s case very good - authors trying to help you. I get the red mist is down. Take a breath and then ask for help.

That kinda came out that no one else was a good author . I just rate Voboy very highly.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Do we REALLY have to do this thread every day or so?

Stay away from school ... period. Drop the uniform gig.

It's like people like to look over the edge and then they are surprised when they slip off the cliff or whatever. (We've all seen those YouTube videos.) I put coming-of-age stories on other sites where they are welcome. Although, one makes me repeat in every chapter that the characters are sixteen and seventeen. Yet it's a small price to pay to have freedom. Lit does what it wants and I do want I want. Seems fair.

 

[Voboy]

For the millionth time, none of the characters look underage, act underage, or speak underage. Not in any way whatsoever. I've lost count of how many times I've been accused of that on this thread so far and it's absolutely untrue.

FFS, the characters speak with proper grammar even though actual high schoolers (heck, most adults) don't because I don't want to write dumb characters. When a character is described as a virgin it's clear that character has an adult's understanding of sex, is not naive or ignorant about it, understands how the male and female bodies function, and knows what is happening and why their body and their partner's body is responding that way.

Not "accusing" you of a thing. I'm trying to be helpful. I've not read your story. I'm accepting at face value your statement that you've worked overtime to make it clear that nobody's a minor. And yet you're still getting kicked back. So? I'm not sure what you expect of us in here. Without further insight into your story, we're forced to default to something that has tripped up other posters in the past. Many of us have vast experience, not just in submitting stories here, but in answering questions like yours. Nobody's trying to get pissy with you.

Good luck in your endeavors. I've found stories such as yours to be enjoyable and rewarding, both to read and to write, so I hope you end up getting it through.

 

[Voboy]

I just rate Voboy very highly.

Dude.

That guy SUCKS.

 

[Britva415]

I've lost count of how many times I've been accused of that on this thread so far and it's absolutely untrue.

See, you're doing it again. That thing where someone talks about stuff other people do, and you taking it as another accusation that you're doing it.