Story rejected for rule I’m certain I didn’t break

[EmilyMiller]

You know what's sexy and flirty and fun and a good setting for discovery and exploration, but not inherently sexualizing of minors? College

I wrote one story set in an upper NY state high school. It was mostly the teachers involved. But there were also two seniors. I went out of my way not just to say they were seniors, but that one had been redshirted and the other had had to repeat a year. They were 19 or close to it, rather than 18 +/-. The female student was also mature beyond her years and more took control of situations than submit to other people’s wishes.

The male student was intellectually older than his years, but had ASD, and struggled with some aspects of social connections. Part of the plot was that the central teacher character was autistic as well and she was trying to help him. It was the first time I wrote explicitly autistic characters, though a had a number of autistic-coded characters before.

I didn’t want a teenybop vibe, but both students were key parts of the plot. It’s important to be very clear in such situations.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

geez ok, this is all honestly very surprising because I've lost track of how many stories I've read here

Gee officer, everybody was doing 100 in a 40 MPH zone and I'm the only one you stopped?

 

[MrPixel]

Colleges don't do uniforms, mostly, and those that do are faith-based and quite conservative, mandating calf-length plain skirts. Knees are dangerous, you know. They lead to other things.

Short plaid skirts = high school and below, and that's the context you are setting. I disagree (sorry, Em) that 19-year-olds held back make it acceptable, it's the context that's important. That you have read stories here featuring this implies to me that they are not recent and haven't been reported. This is a sensitive policy now given the worldwide trend of policing online content for anything implying under-18 sex.

It’s a private school and that short plaid skirt is part of the plot, in ways that I’m sure y’all can imagine

EDIT: I should be quick to say that your stated plot, in general, has some resemblance to real life. My high school's football coach was run out of town on a rail for impregnating a (an under-18) student. There was poetic justice in that case, the only job he could get was coaching for CalTech, which at the time was the losing-est team in the country. Go Beavers!

 

[NotWise]

I'd be surprised if it were the high school reference alone. This is the current under-18 guideline.

To that end, we DO NOT publish works of any type featuring the following content:

Sexual activity involving characters under the age of 18 (including but not limited to explicit sexual discussion, voyeurism, exhibitionism, fantasizing, masturbation, and graphic sexualized descriptions, in addition to actual sexual intercourse). Literotica has always had a strict policy against any under-18 content, and any attempt to violate that policy is grounds for account termination.

In an older version of the guideline, "Senior in high school" was specifically allowed, but it isn't now.

My story Hurricane Twyla is set on the last day of classes for high school seniors, and much of the story takes place at the school. I go out of my way to show that the two main players are over 18 (they're carded by police and pronounced 'adult'), and their behavior is mature.

I also don't think that immature behavior on the part of a character who is said to be over 18 is likely to trigger a rejection. That would imply a much closer read than stories usually get, and I've seen very childish characters in published stories.

I think it's probably sexual content that the author is overlooking, and backstory is often the problem.

 

[TexasKatie]

I'd be surprised if it were the high school reference alone. This is the current under-18 guideline.



In an older version of the guideline, "Senior in high school" was specifically allowed, but it isn't now.

My story Hurricane Twyla is set on the last day of classes for high school seniors, and much of the story takes place at the school. I go out of my way to show that the two main players are over 18 (they're carded by police and pronounced 'adult'), and their behavior is mature.

I also don't think that immature behavior on the part of a character who is said to be over 18 is likely to trigger a rejection. That would imply a much closer read than stories usually get, and I've seen very childish characters in published stories.

I think it's probably sexual content that the author is overlooking, and backstory is often the problem.

If this site wants to ban high school settings, then the rule should be amended to say NO HIGH SCHOOL. I'd be fine with that. But that is not what the text of the rule or anything I could find in the FAQ etc said.

Some of y'all are acting like I should have been able to telepathically understand they're banning high school stories now when I've read them here for years and have never seen anything until this thread (including the generic moderator rejection messages to me) say no high school.

I got frustrated because the story was rejected repeatedly and the only explanation was that underage characters are prohibited. I never ever intended or imagined or tried to portray any of the characters as anything other than adults. Young adults, but absolutely 100% mathematically legal.

After the rejection, I went through and edited and made sure nothing was vague, everyone's age was identified. Other than a few introductory minutes in the last class of the day that involves a totally clothed conversation between two 18 year old characters, the events all take place after school and it's expressly said everyone else has gone home, so any under 18 students theoretically enrolled at this school not only are not involved in the sex or watching (because yes I agree that should be prohibited!) -- they aren't even on campus at all anymore so there's no risk of these theoretical minor characters overhearing anything improper.

It takes work and energy to write stories. It's frustrating to find out that you wasted your time because you didn't know about an unwritten rule and the people responsible for enforcing the rules wouldn't give a more helpful explanation. And now I asked for help and a few of you are getting kinda judgy. Wild to get kinkshamed on a site for online erotica. There's nothing wrong with finding a short plaid skirt sexy to wear or see someone else in.

I have zero problem following the rules when they're told to me. Secret rules or unexplained rules or rules that change without notice...not a fan. A site like this that has sensitive and explicit content and needs to set boundaries should openly post them with clear details so people can follow them, not expect they'll guess.

 

[EmilyMiller]

If this site wants to ban high school settings, then the rule should be amended to say NO HIGH SCHOOL. I'd be fine with that. But that is not what the text of the rule or anything I could find in the FAQ etc said.

Some of y'all are acting like I should have been able to telepathically understand they're banning high school stories now when I've read them here for years and have never seen anything until this thread (including the generic moderator rejection messages to me) say no high school.

I got frustrated because the story was rejected repeatedly and the only explanation was that underage characters are prohibited. I never ever intended or imagined or tried to portray any of the characters as anything other than adults. Young adults, but absolutely 100% mathematically legal.

After the rejection, I went through and edited and made sure nothing was vague, everyone's age was identified. Other than a few introductory minutes in the last class of the day that involves a totally clothed conversation between two 18 year old characters, the events all take place after school and it's expressly said everyone else has gone home, so any under 18 students theoretically enrolled at this school not only are not involved in the sex or watching (because yes I agree that should be prohibited!) -- they aren't even on campus at all anymore so there's no risk of these theoretical minor characters overhearing anything improper.

It takes work and energy to write stories. It's frustrating to find out that you wasted your time because you didn't know about an unwritten rule and the people responsible for enforcing the rules wouldn't give a more helpful explanation. And now I asked for help and a few of you are getting kinda judgy. Wild to get kinkshamed on a site for online erotica. There's nothing wrong with finding a short plaid skirt sexy to wear or see someone else in.

I have zero problem following the rules when they're told to me. Secret rules or unexplained rules or rules that change without notice...not a fan. A site like this that has sensitive and explicit content and needs to set boundaries should openly post them with clear details so people can follow them, not expect they'll guess.

You had @RejectReality making a generous offer to read the text. Did you go down that path? I appreciate it’s frustrating when you have put time and effort into something, and it gets rejected. I’d also offer to help if Reject hadn’t already. You need another pair of eyes on the text.

 

[MrPixel]

Katie? We're just advising based on our own experiences on the site, and the reported experiences of others. Laurel makes the rules, we have no influence at all! Like I said, the site is clamping down because of the pressures not under our control, and the site owners need to protect their investment.

It's sounding to me like your whole story is based on a HS football coach predating HS students, and even if you go out of your way to write the story where all the involved students are late-in-term seniors, there's a clear implication that there may not be a bright red line separating 18+ seniors from 17-y-o seniors. In fact, and over-thinking it here, football season, being early fall, practically all seniors are going to be 17. If you are chronicling sexual encounters before or after HS football games, seniors are going to be 17.

So. Bottom line, solely IMO - no HS.

 

[NotWise]

If this site wants to ban high school settings, then the rule should be amended to say NO HIGH SCHOOL. I'd be fine with that. But that is not what the text of the rule or anything I could find in the FAQ etc said.

snip

I have zero problem following the rules when they're told to me. Secret rules or unexplained rules or rules that change without notice...not a fan. A site like this that has sensitive and explicit content and needs to set boundaries should openly post them with clear details so people can follow them, not expect they'll guess.

The rules don't say "no highschool," they just no longer explicity allow high school seniors.

We understand how much work it takes, but it seems like there's something in your story that steps over the line, or at least appears to step over the line.

If you haven't already, you should take up @RejectReality's offer. He has a word of experience here. You won't get a better offer.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

The original draft said “all characters are at least 18” and the rejection note said that disclaimer doesn’t fix it.

I guess I’ll try to find a volunteer editor but if that doesn’t work I’m probably never posting another story here again. The u/i is already annoying enough and spending all that time inputting the text and formatting it only for it to be rejected for a false reason? I’m not wasting my time again.

I would be happy to review it for you if you would like. I have several stories here with underage characters so I know it can be done.

Sent me a DM to discuss.

 

[RejectReality]

You're going to have an extremely high bar to avoid any hint of underage when you use high school as a setting, but it's not forbidden to the best of my knowledge. ( Assuming recent ill-considered age-verification laws or the moral monitors threatening adult site hosts aren't pushing them toward eliminating it as a setting for the purpose of expedience. If that's the case, with the track record they're developing for keeping the FAQ up to date in recent days, it will likely be added soon )

Feel free to drop that story on me and I'll give it a read with an eye toward potentially triggering elements. I'm just sitting here playing Dragon Quest 8 again and refreshing this forum window every so often.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

If it isn’t enormously long DM me a copy and I’ll have a look.

 

[SkyBubble]

I submitted a story where the main character is identified in the first few paragraphs as a high school senior who just turned 18 a month ago.

Things like this are unfortunately more common than they should be. I had a story returned about two college age characters because Laurel somehow got the impression they might be underage. I added a couple more references (oblique ones) to say they were about 21. It got through. You might try just dropping in a phrase here and there (where it will fit easily) that references her age.

 

[SkyBubble]

I cannot figure out what is going on unless maybe they have a very stupid AI reviewing these

BINGO! You nailed it!

 

[SkyBubble]

Do you have any numbers less than 18 in the text that a bot might find, like "it had been fifteen years since we..." Or "that wine was twelve years old" or "he had fourteen cars on the lot..."

I'm nt sure that's a problem. I have one story where the characters are described as knowing each other since first grade and it mentions that that's fifteen years ago. (You can do the math yourself.)

 

[SkyBubble]

Do you have any numbers less than 18 in the text that a bot might find, like "it had been fifteen years since we..." Or "that wine was twelve years old" or "he had fourteen cars on the lot..."

On another thread, it was noted that someone got a story sent back because a character had a fifteen year old...

bottle of wine.

 

[SkyBubble]

I really wish they had a way to copy and paste whatever text is triggering the rejection, sigh.

If you really don’t mind reading it I’ll absolutely take you up on your offer. I think I can just copy and paste the text in messages. It’s a bit long so will take a little bit but I’ll send it along shortly. Thank you!

It might take more than one message.

 

[SkyBubble]

I agree. The two words "high school" imply underage because in the US anyway, most seniors don't turn 18 until near graduation or after they graduate.

This is true. If you must set it in a high school, and as per the above advice, it's extremely unwise, avoid the term high school. If you MUST set it there, basically talk around it. You can have a dance in the gym (very high schoolish), for example, and probably get away with that, but specifically using high school is extremely likely to get flagged.

 

[SkyBubble]

If it isn’t enormously long DM me a copy and I’ll have a look.

Define enormously long.

 

[SkyBubble]

I'd happily help you.

 

[Djmac1031]

Look, not trying to be an asshole here. But your claim that you didn't break the rules is obviously incorrect, otherwise it wouldn't have been rejected.

Im not going to assume the content of your story or your intentions while writing it.

Ill just say the rules here about underage are strict, and with good reason.

Maybe you didn't "break" the rules, but you obviously danced too close to the edge.

Go back, reread your story with a critical, honest eye and I'm willing to be you'll figure out where the red flags are.

Good luck with it.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

Well, @TexasKatie , I don't know what to tell you. I've never had that problem before, and I didn't even notice the guidelines changed until I opened this thread. It is a minor change, but now I don't even know if that's a hidden rule or not. What will this pose to my stories? I don't know. I'm not sure if they'll get taken down in the future or not, and the paranoid part of my intuition tells me this is due to the recent crackdown on the Internet as Lit readies itself to not be booted off into Oblivion.

Now it seems that you're stunlocked into the "girl" word without looking at the whole picture. As you said, that word alone isn't problematic, but when you write the typical high school fantasies, you have to be careful with your wording because it's already balancing on a very small tightrope. Any wrong word, and it could fall in the big no-nos, as @Britva415 explained. IIRC, stories aren't scrutinized by an AI, and if this is a lost cause, archive the story and carry on with the next. If you want, I can take an attempt look at it and try to see where are the issues provided that isn't too long.

Now, let me address the elephant in the room. The authors who are shaming other authors for writing this theme? Really? How dare you to be like that on this current moment and time? Seriously, how dare you?! We are going through a worldwide censorship of the Internet, and instead of seeing the huge problem that that is and how it will affect us in the future, you're going to join the side of the censors and shame other authors? You haven't even read OP's story to even make a judgement! Don't even dare to justify yourselves if you have written something that is up in T/I or R/NC, oh, don't you dare!

 

[RejectReality]

Damn skippy. The biggest problem in the AH isn't underage threads, or AI threads, or delayed publication threads, or word game threads, or anything else. It's people complaining about, berating, mocking, and otherwise belittling people asking for help. FFS, you were all new once. If you're not interested in helping, then don't post. You don't even have to see more than the title of the thread most of the time. It's obvious what's inside. Don't even open it if you're offended by the rubes invading your country club. Save yourself the time, trial, and tribulation.

I'd tell some of y'all to stick your snooty attitudes up your ass, but I wouldn't want you to break your noses.

 

[Britva415]

Any wrong word, and it could fall in the big no-nos, as @Britva415 explained

It wasn't about "wrong words," it was about the (hypothetical or not, idk) intent to write a fully teenybopper themed story and try to "get out of jail free" by conveniently giving her an 18th birthday.

 

[Husky_Embrace]

Now I'm not familiar with the USA terms, but a quick search on "high school senior" I see it means 17 or 18 years old. This is most likely the problem.

Here on lit they try to weed out any stories than can be read in a way that break the rules. This is to try to not be a home for "secret" child pornography stories. Something I personally agree with.

Even if your characters are all described as 18, they might read as under 18. To prevent this I would cut out some "short cuts" in writing. Things like "high school" can do a lot of work for you, but simply "school" can suffice. An 18yo at a school can set the setting just as well. It also prevents alienating your audience, as we're a diverse bunch. Many of us do not know "high school," or have a warped sense of it thanks to media like TV.

After removing this context, it would be good to reduce the amount of "girl" mentions. It is of course a shot in the dark for me as I didn't read your story, but this can be another source. Once more, if it can read like she's under age, it can be rejected. If the older boys/coach keep engaging with her as if she's under age, for example by calling her "girl" constantly, it can be rejected.

So my best advice it to read your story again, seeking out where your story can be interpreted as under age. When you find it, change it. If she reads as an adult most of the time, a "girl" mention isn't bad.

 

[EmilyMiller]

@TexasKatie - you’ve had like five bona fide authors offer to help. I’d say take at least one of them up on the offer.

Personally, obviously people under 18 have sex (not me, except with myself, and sadly not for lack of trying). But the laws are there for a reason. I have no problem with the site rejecting anything where any protagonist is under 18. It’s not a creative hindrance to any story I want to write.

But saying that it’s not OK to include an 18 year old adult having sex seems a draconian over reaction. If that 18 year old adult happens to be in the final stages of their high school senior year, they are still an 18 year old adult. The rule is age-based.