On red hair and freckles

[XerXesXu]

My sense of redheads is also colored by the traditional English view of them being inferiors in some typical snooty English way. See red-headed step child for an example.

Is this a Prince Harry reference? He has red hair and freckles, but the freckles are on his wife.

 

[iwatchus]

I had not even thought about Harry being red headed. red headed step child is a saying I heard years ago.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I often see red hair being used as a short hand for Irish/Irish descent in fiction. When all of the redheads I've personally known have been of Scottish or Scandinavian descent. I don't get it, it's like everyone think that Ireland is full of redheads and they exist no where else.

And then there's freckles, which seems to only exist on redheads in fiction. When the majority of people I've known with freckles have had brown or blond hair. Heck, I even knew a black guy once with freckles. His girlfriend liked to make him blush by counting them. It was actually pretty adorable.

So where did these (and possibly other) stereotypes come from? And if you're writing something that ignores them, is it worth it to call attention to it?

I have freckles. I have dark blonde hair. My antecedents are Lithuanian, German / Polish, and Italian. No Irish at all as far as I am aware. I believe red hair is actually more prevalent in Northern Europe than Ireland.

 

[Bamagan]

I have read that the principal genetic cause of red hair is a particular type of hormone receptor referred to as MC1R. In humans, there are something like eight or ten genes known that affect how it functions or how it is expressed. You get enough of those, or the right combination, and you get red hair of some kind. The genes are not unique to any population of humans, and in most cases, are not unique to humans or even mammals. That being said, 'visible' redheads are more common in people of European stock because the gene expression is often masked by other genes that produce darker hair and skin in other populations.
From the web: Countries with the highest percentage of redheads.
United Kingdom 8.44%
Iceland 6.93%
Denmark 4.99%
United States 4%
France 4%
Netherlands 2.6%
Estonia 1%
Germany 0.2%

Edit: The same website says that Ireland may have 10%. I'm not sure why they weren't included, although I'm guessing that their population data wasn't robust enough.

 

[iwatchus]

Is Ireland really below 0.2%?

 

[Bamagan]

Is Ireland really below 0.2%?

No, it's around 10%, and Scotland is comparable. But Scotland data is merged with UK. Not sure why Ireland's wasn't included in the table. I updated my post to include that note.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Is Ireland really below 0.2%?

A lot of these kind of surveys tend to lump Ireland into the United Kingdom. Even though while they might be part of the isles they are not for the most part, part of Britain. I also suspect that Australia and Canada are also lumped into the United Kingdom. Would be nice if we could see the data on the different nations in the Isles, Australia, and Canada separately though.

 

[NuclearFairy]

No, it's around 10%, and Scotland is comparable. But Scotland data is merged with UK. Not sure why Ireland's wasn't included in the table. I updated my post to include that note.

Ah ok.

 

[Bamagan]

For those who don't want to follow the link, here are some other ethnic groups with a propensity for gingers:
Ashkenazi Jews, who can be found across northern Europe, from France to Poland.
The Riffian people of Morocco.
The Kabyles of Algeria.
The Uyghurs, a Turkic ethnic group in China and various -stan lands.
The Udmurts of the Volga Region in Russia.
It's even associated with some royal bloodlines in Polynesia.

 

[YDB95]

As I understand it, it was the Vikings who brought red hair to Ireland in the first place. I've never given it a whole lot of thought in my stories, which often do have redheads but I've never mentioned freckles that I can recall.

 

[SouthernCrossfire]

My family is American but of a largely Irish descent from long before the famines. There are still a lot of redheads with freckles.

We saw lots of redheads, many with freckles, when we visited Ireland a few years ago but the best example was on the plane heading over. The Irish family (mom, dad, two or three daughters, and one or two boys) returning home from a Disneyworld vacation set the tone; they ALL had red hair. I didn’t look close enough to check freckles.

 

[AG31]

Is Ireland really below 0.2%?

Maybe whoever gathered the stats thinks it's part of the United Kingdom.

 

[EmmatheRunner]

I am a Scottish redhead.

As a member of the species under discussion, I can confirm that there are indeed a number of us still loose in the wild.

I'm of the lesser-freckled variety, myself, but with the Highland burr.

I too associate us more with Scotland and Scandinavia, Norway especially, but I have precisely zero facts or statistics to support this.

 

[lovecraft68]

My wife is Sicilian with red hair, green eyes and freckles.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

View attachment 2555167

Count the freckles

 

[StillStunned]

Count the freckles

My wife's freckles are like the stars in the night sky. After nearly 25 years I haven't counted them all, nor am I tired of counting.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I am a Scottish redhead.

As a member of the species under discussion, I can confirm that there are indeed a number of us still loose in the wild.

I'm of the lesser-freckled variety, myself, but with the Highland burr.

I too associate us more with Scotland and Scandinavia, Norway especially, but I have precisely zero facts or statistics to support this.

I love this, a description by exemption.

My stories often have a spray of freckles, often down into a cleavage, or ever so faint on cheeks or a nose, like tiny leaves dancing in the sunlight. More often on honey blondes than redheads, but that's because of teenage girlfriends.

(That's three oftens, which probably means, a lot).

 

[Comshaw]

I often see red hair being used as a short hand for Irish/Irish descent in fiction. When all of the redheads I've personally known have been of Scottish or Scandinavian descent. I don't get it, it's like everyone think that Ireland is full of redheads and they exist no where else.

And then there's freckles, which seems to only exist on redheads in fiction. When the majority of people I've known with freckles have had brown or blond hair. Heck, I even knew a black guy once with freckles. His girlfriend liked to make him blush by counting them. It was actually pretty adorable.

So where did these (and possibly other) stereotypes come from? And if you're writing something that ignores them, is it worth it to call attention to it?

Check out this map.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/percentage-of-redheads-by-country

Ireland doesn't even rate. The United Kingdom has 8.44% of the population that are redheads. Iceland is at almost 7%. The U.S. is at 4% the same as France. So yeah, I have no idea why the redhead got tied to Ireland.

As far as freckles, my sister is a redhead and has freckles. But I've known a lot of black people who have them too. One of my first jobs was washing dishes in cafe. The cook was of Black/Cherokee heritage and she had LOTS of freckles.

I think the redhead/freckles thing is because a lot more redheaded people have freckles than others.

Comshaw

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Ireland doesn't even rate. The United Kingdom has 8.44% of the population that are redheads.

Ireland is part of the UK.

 

[Bamagan]

Check out this map.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/percentage-of-redheads-by-country

Ireland doesn't even rate. The United Kingdom has 8.44% of the population that are redheads. Iceland is at almost 7%. The U.S. is at 4% the same as France. So yeah, I have no idea why the redhead got tied to Ireland.

As far as freckles, my sister is a redhead and has freckles. But I've known a lot of black people who have them too. One of my first jobs was washing dishes in cafe. The cook was of Black/Cherokee heritage and she had LOTS of freckles.

I think the redhead/freckles thing is because a lot more redheaded people have freckles than others.

Comshaw

I linked to that site above. Ireland doesn't show up on the map, but the same site says that about 10% of Ireland's ~5 million population is redheaded. I suspect Norway would also make the top ten but is not on the map. It's probably comparable to Iceland and Denmark.

 

[Nynah]

Check out this map.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/percentage-of-redheads-by-country

Ireland doesn't even rate. The United Kingdom has 8.44% of the population that are redheads. Iceland is at almost 7%. The U.S. is at 4% the same as France. So yeah, I have no idea why the redhead got tied to Ireland.

This website contradicts itself here:



They also have a disclaimer stating "Data on red-haired populations is notably incomplete and often outdated. More statistical research is needed to obtain definitive numbers." Between this and the incongruency above, I don't think the map should be trusted.

Ireland is part of the UK.

It isn't. Northern Ireland is, but the Republic of Ireland is its own sovereign state. Hasn't been part of the UK since 1922.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

It isn't. Northern Ireland is, but the Republic of Ireland is its own sovereign state. Hasn't been part of the UK since 1922.

There is a difference between politically and geographically/statistically

British Isles take precedence.

Some say Canada, Bermuda and Australia and a few other 'sovereign' places are part of the UK.

 

[AG31]

View attachment 2555167

Count the freckles

How come the requested page could not be found?

 

[Comshaw]

I linked to that site above. Ireland doesn't show up on the map, but the same site says that about 10% of Ireland's ~5 million population is redheaded. I suspect Norway would also make the top ten but is not on the map. It's probably comparable to Iceland and Denmark.

Yep. That happens when you don't check out what you post thoroughly enough. My bad. I wondered why Norway wasn't represented. You'd think with Iceland showing almost 7%, the ancestors of the Icelandic people had to have a bunch of redheads.

Comshaw

 

[Britva415]

Ireland is part of the UK.

PART OF Ireland is part of the UK.

Ireland is a whole-ass country. You're thinking of the six counties which are not part of the Republic of Ireland.

Either that or you're thinking of the 18 and early 1900s.