A 'Cest Too Far?

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I was all sibcest and cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. until recently. The Kensingtons added Mom/Daughters, Mom/Son and Dad/Daughters. But for some reason, the squick/pucker factor ratchets up at the thought of Dad/Son even though a scene or two would 'naturally' lead to it.

There's a MomDom/FemDom undertone than hints at Mom/Domme. She says things that cause the girls to attend to her and their father and the girls and the son to attend to her, or to each other. But having her direct the son to the father is a stumbling point for some reason.

 

[SimonDoom]

I was all sibcest and cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. until recently. The Kensingtons added Mom/Daughters, Mom/Son and Dad/Daughters. But for some reason, the squick/pucker factor ratchets up at the thought of Dad/Son even though a scene or two would 'naturally' lead to it.

There's a MomDom/FemDom undertone than hints at Mom/Domme. She says things that cause the girls to attend to her and their father and the girls and the son to attend to her, or to each other. But having her direct the son to the father is a stumbling point for some reason.

This isn't surprising at all.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Meaning?

 

[lovecraft68]

If its too much for you leave it out.

I have a full family taboo series and I don't have the son with the father and no one seems to care.

Truth is GM isn't all that popular there and most people don't mind you omitting it.

 

[TheLobster]

Dad/Son is way less popular because T/I readership is predominantly straight. It's the same as in non-incest stories, really, when it comes to pretty universal dislike of male-on-male sex outside of the Gay Male category.

 

[SimonDoom]

There are several things going on here.

One is that, in general, many readers don't want their kinks spoiled by being mixed with other kinks. They want it kept simple.

The other is that incest readers in particular tend to be a bit finicky. They want "good clean" incest with mom and son. It's not difficult to understand why it's not so appealing if son suddenly says, "Hey, Dad's looking pretty good, too." That screws up the whole Oedipal Complex fantasy.

Finally, this is the reality: for most straight male readers, gay male content is a hard "no." It's just not appealing. It's especially not appealing when they've settled in for one kind of story and suddenly they're dealing with another.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Thinking of doing a quick chapter with a cliff hanger of sorts. Maybe the comments, if any, will provide direction.

 

[lovecraft68]

There are several things going on here.

One is that, in general, many readers don't want their kinks spoiled by being mixed with other kinks. They want it kept simple.

The other is that incest readers in particular tend to be a bit finicky. They want "good clean" incest with mom and son. It's not difficult to understand why it's not so appealing if son suddenly says, "Hey, Dad's looking pretty good, too." That screws up the whole Oedipal Complex fantasy.

Finally, this is the reality: for most straight male readers, gay male content is a hard "no." It's just not appealing. It's especially not appealing when they've settled in for one kind of story and suddenly they're dealing with another.

True, but keep in mind the basic double standard across the erotica board that woman on woman is mostly acceptable by anyone anywhere but guys....nope.

 

[SimonDoom]

True, but keep in mind the basic double standard across the erotica board that woman on woman is mostly acceptable by anyone anywhere but guys....nope.

I don't see that as a double standard. I see that as the way people are. Almost everybody likes girl on girl. Most men don't want to touch guy on guy.

When it comes to physical attraction, we like what we like. At a certain level, it can't be meaningfully analyzed or judged.

 

[RejectReality]

If it's squicking you, don't write it. If you're not getting into what you're writing, then what comes out on the page is going to fall flat and take away from the rest of the story anyway.

Possibly write it as if it's a scene between non-related guys of the proper age if that doesn't make your skin crawl. Then go back once it's done and substitute the proper honorifics wherever necessary. That may let you fall into the scene and keep the proper energy so it doesn't feel like a speed bump in the story. I've pulled those mental gymnastics a couple of times and had it work out.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Girl on girl is the quickest way to get me to stop being aroused. So I kinda get it, especially if guys are less likely to admit their sexuality than women. Or as has been theorized in other threads, if guys are less likely to be at least a little bi than women.

But I suspect this might have more to do with real world power balances and wanting to keep that out of fictional incest. As has been talked about in other threads where people talk about not wanting to have daddy daughter because it feels too much like predatory incest.

But I dunno... While I really get off on pseudo incest (Step family, adopted family and cousins) I've never really been able to get into actual incest stories.

 

[Rustyoznail]

Is MM essential to the story? If Mom is Dom, then I'd say yes, do it.

Mom - "You're worried about your cocks touching when you dp us? Well, you're getting a lot more intimate before that happens..."

Yes, readers won't like it, but it has to be seen in the context of the whole story arc. Not "Hey Dad, I've arse fucked everyone but you."

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

If Mom is Dom, then I'd say yes, do it.

I'm not sure to what extent yet. She rules the roost and directs a number of things. Collars may be introduced and maybe some light restraints, but probably no further. Dad/Son would be a demonstration of her 'control'.

 

[filthytrancendence]

I don't see that as a double standard. I see that as the way people are. Almost everybody likes girl on girl. Most men don't want to touch guy on guy.

When it comes to physical attraction, we like what we like. At a certain level, it can't be meaningfully analyzed or judged.

The way people are can be and often is a double standard.

And it absolutely can be meaningfully analyzed. It's just that in this case, the meaningful analysis would need to go quite a lot deeper than anybody's probably interested in reading here. Heteronormativtiy, in a word, and even deeper than that, the policing of masculine gendered performance.

On an individual level, if you don't want to write it, don't write it. But perhaps consider that the squick might not be down to your own personal sexual orientation and might involve a learned disgust response for gay men having sex. For myself, that was something I had to confront in myself when I finally got over the hump of admitting I was bi. Disgust might not even be the right word. It can even be a fear of being associated with gay male sexuality, due to the hate that's exhibited in that direction regularly and casually. Or perhaps both. But I'm skeptical of this magical view of attraction that's quick to throw up the hands and behave as if attraction is not driven by things other than unchangeable biology. Because that's just obviously untrue.

 

[SimonDoom]

But I'm skeptical of this magical view of attraction that's quick to throw up the hands and behave as if attraction is not driven by things other than unchangeable biology. Because that's just obviously untrue.

I agree it's true that it's not JUST biology, but I think it's partly biology. There's a middle ground between "Men are men and women are women" and "We're all the same but for socialization." I think the truth lies somewhere in that middle ground, although I'm not expert enough to say where, exactly. This is one of those perennial questions that I think we are still a ways away from answering.

Regardless, nobody should be in any way surprised if readers of a mom-son incest story are, in general, turned off by son getting it on with dad. If you are surprised, you are not paying attention.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

I can't help but, once again, roll my eyes at the takes some people have.

Just listen to @SimonDoom. What he wrote is 100% true. People like what they like, and most people in the taboo-category like their incest clean and free of all the implied baggage that real-world incest comes with. Which, I suspect, is your biggest problem.

You said it's a MomDom/FemDom story. If that's what you want, write it. But if you wonder why you think ordering the son to pleasure his father goes too far, just look at the cuckold stories in the fetish or LW category.
It's one thing to write about a dominant woman making her husband watch her as she sleeps with another man. If they go one step further, the husband gets ordered to clean the wife up afterwards. But ordering the husband to also clean up the bull while the husband isn't expressly bisexual... Well, that goes beyond fun and games, implies that one character has malicious control over another character to the point where someone acts contrary to their desires/wishes, and introduces harmful connotations. In short, exactly what the taboo-readers don't want.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

But ordering the husband to also clean up the bull while the husband isn't expressly bisexual... Well, that goes beyond fun and games, implies that one character has malicious control over another character to the point where someone acts contrary to their desires/wishes, and introduces harmful connotations.

No, not where this would go. I never do non-con.

This may be (if it becomes anything) more about the power of Dad's dick and if it wasn't for it, the kids wouldn't exist.

 

[filthytrancendence]

I agree it's true that it's not JUST biology, but I think it's partly biology. There's a middle ground between "Men are men and women are women" and "We're all the same but for socialization." I think the truth lies somewhere in that middle ground, although I'm not expert enough to say where, exactly. This is one of those perennial questions that I think we are still a ways away from answering.

Regardless, nobody should be in any way surprised if readers of a mom-son incest story are, in general, turned off by son getting it on with dad. If you are surprised, you are not paying attention.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. And if somebody wanted to write this story, I think the prevailing wisdom would be to put it in Gay Male, not Incest.

 

[SimonDoom]

I wouldn't be surprised at all. And if somebody wanted to write this story, I think the prevailing wisdom would be to put it in Gay Male, not Incest.

I think you are right about that.