Would this story be allowed?

[WCSGarland]

A married man has an affair with his female coworker that willing agrees to the affair and has sex with him, but the married man's wife does not consent to the affair. By definition, the husband has non-consensual sex with the co-worker because his wife did not consent to his having sex. Was it rape?

 

[FrancesScott]

A married man has an affair with his female coworker that willing agrees to the affair and has sex with him, but the married man's wife does not consent to the affair. By definition, the husband has non-consensual sex with the co-worker because his wife did not consent to his having sex. Was it rape?

When in a hole, the best advice is to stop digging. This is getting risible.

 

[Djmac1031]

Whatever you personally feel non-con means, its Literotica meaning is pretty obvious.

Not to people who make up... um, excuse me, offer "alternative facts."

A married man has an affair with his female coworker that willing agrees to the affair and has sex with him, but the married man's wife does not consent to the affair. By definition, the husband has non-consensual sex with the co-worker because his wife did not consent to his having sex. Was it rape?

that's not how that works. Like, at all.

 

[SimonDoom]

A married man has an affair with his female coworker that willing agrees to the affair and has sex with him, but the married man's wife does not consent to the affair. By definition, the husband has non-consensual sex with the co-worker because his wife did not consent to his having sex. Was it rape?

Now things are getting REALLY silly.

This is not much different from asking: A man and woman agree, verbally and explicitly, to engage in a sex act in which the man will bind the woman in leather straps. But the cow did not consent to being killed and have its hide turned into leather straps. Is this nonconsensual sex? Is it rape?

This, and your example, have no relevance to the conversation.

 

[WCSGarland]

This, and your example, have no relevance to the conversation.

My example has relevance to the discussion pertaining to whether the sex in a non-con story can only or should only be rape or if the story can be in the non-con category and the sex can be completely consensual. Nobody seems to want to accept that there can be any nuance. So feel free to denigrate my opinions.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

^^^ What about the folks at the tannery that made the straps?

 

[Djmac1031]

^^^ What about the folks at the tannery that made the straps?

Accessories to the crime.

 

[FrancesScott]

My example has relevance to the discussion pertaining to whether the sex in a non-con story can only or should only be rape or if the story can be in the non-con category and the sex can be completely consensual. Nobody seems to want to accept that there can be any nuance. So feel free to denigrate my opinions.

Maybe because you are getting ever more ridiculous in your postings and a crowd has now gathered to point and laugh. I would seriously recommend a period away from the phone / keyboard. A little quiet reflection. This is primarily for your benefit.

 

[Britva415]

Accessories to the crime.

also didn't consent to the sex

 

[FrancesScott]

Anyway, I’m behind on my writing. I don’t want to keep WCS waiting too long for my next story. It’s unkind.

 

[FrancesScott]

Accessories to the crime.

It was the leather Gucci purse that was the accessory to the crime.

 

[Djmac1031]

It was the leather Gucci purse that was the accessory to the crime.

 

[SimonDoom]

My example has relevance to the discussion pertaining to whether the sex in a non-con story can only or should only be rape or if the story can be in the non-con category and the sex can be completely consensual. Nobody seems to want to accept that there can be any nuance. So feel free to denigrate my opinions.

I'm not "denigrating" -- you don't need to go there. I am disagreeing with the applicability of your example. My example was a form of reductio ad absurdum, which I thought was warranted in this case.

The key issue is the consent/nonconsent involving the parties involved. That the wife does not consent to the husband's affair does not make a story about the husband's affair a "nonconsent" story. Nobody seeking to read a "nonconsent" story is looking for a story like that.

There are some stories published in the "noncon" category that qualify as "consensual nonconsent." These are stories where the parties involved are for all intents and purposes just play-acting at a nonconsent situation. I've read at least one or two such stories in the category, but they're pretty unusual, I think. Most nonconsent stories are "real" nonconsent, meaning that the encounter is not actually consensual. The key fact to these stories is that THE ABSENCE OF CONSENT IS A CRUCIAL PART OF THE EROTIC APPEAL. In that respect, they're like rape stories, even if the situation looks very different from what we usually think of as rape.

My own feeling is that too many people get all wrapped around the axle about this, with some people condemning all the stories as justifying rape and others claiming it's not really rape and therefore "these" stories are OK even if rape stories aren't.

The way to resolve the hand-wringing from both sides, in my opinion, is to accept that the fantasy subject is immoral and transgressive, but that's OK, because fantasy can be that way.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Hey, Tony ... How ya' doin'? Haven't heard back from you.

 

[WCSGarland]

Nobody seeking to read a "nonconsent" story is looking for a story like that.

and now I think maybe you are denigrating the readers of noncon category

That the wife does not consent to the husband's affair does not make a story about the husband's affair a "nonconsent" story.

too absolutist... there could be other nonconsent factors that place it in that category, not just the wife's not consenting to the affair... there could also be blackmail, public humiliation... all it takes is the imagination to write the story and make it appealing.

 

[NuclearFairy]

What I’m interested in is why some men like porn featuring actual rape. What is it about actual rape that is arousing? Not role play, actual descriptions of forced sex.

I just realized something. You went from asking why people enjoy rape fantasies, to insisting you meant why do men enjoy them, to then insisting you meant why do men enjoy watching actual rape, which has nothing to do with rape fantasy. Are you a troll? Not trying to bust your balls or anything, just curious.

 

[SimonDoom]

and now I think maybe you are denigrating the readers of noncon category

too absolutist... there could be other nonconsent factors that place it in that category, not just the wife's not consenting to the affair... there could also be blackmail, public humiliation... all it takes is the imagination to write the story and make it appealing.

But that gets back to my point: the key is the people who are parties to the sex act. If a woman is being blackmailed into committing sex acts, that's nonconsent. If she is doing something to avoid public humiliation, that's nonconsent. These are classic examples of nonconsent stories. In these stories one of the people involved in the sex act has their agency/consent power compromised by something.

That's completely different from your situation where the wife doesn't give consent to the husband having sex with somebody else, or my silly example where the cow doesn't give consent. Those situations have nothing to do with what you are talking about regarding blackmail or public humiliation. I AGREE with you that those are good examples of nonconsent stories.

Another classic type of nonconsent story is the sexual enslavement story -- a woman by some circumstance is "enslaved" by a man and forced to perform sex acts for him. In these stories the woman is sometimes shown as ultimately enjoying her sexual enslavement in some way (thus complying with the Literotica rule). I'm working on a story of this sort, but I'm finding it so difficult to make plausible that it's taking a long time.

This, too, is an example where the nonconsent is of the person who is party to the sex act.

A common thread of all of these examples--enslavement, public humiliation, and blackmail--is that they're in most cases criminal. Enslavement is criminal, and extortion is criminal. If you force somebody to do something by a threat of public humiliation, you've probably committed the crime of extortion. So all these forms of nonconsent, although not exactly like rape, are like rape in that the sex is obtained through an immoral/illegal act.

 

[WCSGarland]

But that gets back to my point: the key is the people who are parties to the sex act. If a woman is being blackmailed into committing sex acts, that's nonconsent. If she is doing something to avoid public humiliation, that's nonconsent. These are classic examples of nonconsent stories. In these stories one of the people involved in the sex act has their agency/consent power compromised by something.

That's completely different from your situation where the wife doesn't give consent to the husband having sex with somebody else, or my silly example where the cow doesn't give consent. Those situations have nothing to do with what you are talking about regarding blackmail or public humiliation. I AGREE with you that those are good examples of nonconsent stories.

Another classic type of nonconsent story is the sexual enslavement story -- a woman by some circumstance is "enslaved" by a man and forced to perform sex acts for him. In these stories the woman is sometimes shown as ultimately enjoying her sexual enslavement in some way (thus complying with the Literotica rule). I'm working on a story of this sort, but I'm finding it so difficult to make plausible that it's taking a long time.

This, too, is an example where the nonconsent is of the person who is party to the sex act.

A common thread of all of these examples--enslavement, public humiliation, and blackmail--is that they're in most cases criminal. Enslavement is criminal, and extortion is criminal. If you force somebody to do something by a threat of public humiliation, you've probably committed the crime of extortion. So all these forms of nonconsent, although not exactly like rape, are like rape in that the sex is obtained through an immoral/illegal act.

and yet... one of my favorite stories that I've written in the non-con category is about government sanctioned - i.e. legalized noncon with respect to conscripted sex workers... Counterfeit Rose

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't believe we are having this conversation, to be honest. But I'll indulge.

All of the examples above are examples of public nudity, violation of privacy, sexual harassment, and so on. Not non-con or rape. Non-con literally means non-consensual sex, aka rape. It's not non-consensual something that has some sexual angle; it's non-consensual sex.
If that weren't the case, then, hypothetically, my sexy female boss firing me from my job would be non-con. I sure as hell didn't consent to getting fired, and she always gives me such lewd thoughts.

This is absurd, truly. I see this talk as an attempt to water down the meaning of non-con/rape. (Reluctance is an entirely different thing as consent is ultimately given)
I mean, I have no intention to kink-shame non-con authors, nor would I support any such endeavour. I honestly believe that any complaint should be directed at Laurel, not the authors.

I think I agree with you, but I'm not sure.

Let's consider a few specific examples:

Sam threatens Julie with revealing to the public something about her past that could threaten her job or her marriage, unless she masturbates in front of him. Masturbation is not 2-person sex, but this would still be a nonconsensual "sex act" wouldn't it? Wouldn't it belong in noncon?

Sam threatens Julie with the same, but this time he wants her to walk naked in public. I could see this as Ex & Voy, but it might also qualify as a nonconsent story depending on how it was written.

 

[FrancesScott]

I just realized something. You went from asking why people enjoy rape fantasies, to insisting you meant why do men enjoy them, to then insisting you meant why do men enjoy watching actual rape, which has nothing to do with rape fantasy. Are you a troll? Not trying to bust your balls or anything, just curious.

It’s hard to get all the modifiers in line. We were talking about stories featuring CNC, which is not actual rape. What I was referring to was stories featuring actual rape, as opposed to CNC. If that was unclear, my bad. Feel free to bust my balls if you like. Good luck with that one!

I’m sure you can find vids of actual rape if you look hard enough. But that wasn’t what was talking about.

Back to writing for me.

 

[NuclearFairy]

 

[FrancesScott]

I looked at the section you quoted again. It’s more clear than I assumed.

What I’m interested in is why some men like porn featuring actual rape. What is it about actual rape that is arousing? Not role play, actual descriptions of forced sex.

I’m unclear how you would misinterpret the underlined bits. I obviously didn’t mean journalistic coverage of a rape that the author witnessed. I meant stories which depict non-consensual sex. Help me with what you found confusing. Because now I’m confused.

Is it the word actual? That was wholly to contrast with the role playing of CNC. Which is fake rape.

 

[FrancesScott]

Oh look:

https://forum.literotica.com/thread...hat-is-so-enticing-about-them-to-you.1636949/

Let’s see if that plays out any differently.

 

[ElectricBlue]

A married man has an affair with his female coworker that willing agrees to the affair and has sex with him, but the married man's wife does not consent to the affair. By definition, the husband has non-consensual sex with the co-worker because his wife did not consent to his having sex. Was it rape?

Sigh.

What the fuck has the wife to do with it, in this scenario? This is silly getting sillier.

 

[WCSGarland]

You know, it is almost disconcerting some of the lack of imagination among the Literotica authors.... just rape me and get it over with.