Alternatives to Porn, should we try together?

[timmy02294197]

Hey, I've only started to publish. For me, Erotica stories have always been an alternative to porn, which I despise as an industry. People get hurt, mostly women, and I want to contribute to others finding their way our of it. I was wondering if other authors relate to the same idea? And if so, should we work on this together? Should we find ways to advertise our work?
In any case, here was my first attempt.
Really interested in what you think and what could be done! Let's keep it arousing and safe
Timmy, lover of stories

 

[Bramblethorn]

What we write here is porn in the eyes of a great many people. I'm not sold on the moral high ground you're attempting to claim, particularly given that your story is inspired by porn videos and focusses on facials, a sexual fetish whose popularity is largely due to porn and which is often used in porn as an act of degradation.

I get that you're trying to write respectful, women-positive facials. But I'm pretty sure you'd find plenty of people in video porn who believe that's what they're doing too, and I'm not sure their attempts are less legit than yours.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Hey, I've only started to publish. For me, Erotica stories have always been an alternative to porn, which I despise as an industry. People get hurt, mostly women, and I want to contribute to others finding their way our of it. I was wondering if other authors relate to the same idea? And if so, should we work on this together? Should we find ways to advertise our work?
In any case, here was my first attempt.
Really interested in what you think and what could be done! Let's keep it arousing and safe
Timmy, lover of stories

I suspect you'll get people reading your story and wanting to know the title of the video so they can go watch it. Sort of like those novelizations of movies that primarily function as advertisements for the original.

 

[filthytrancendence]

Nobody's going to jump on it? Okay, I'll do it. I'm in a mood.

alternative to porn, which I despise as an industry. People get hurt, mostly women, and I want to contribute to others finding their way our of it.

It's hard to know where to start with this...

I for one don't welcome the concern trolling for sex workers. The nicest thing I can do in response is admonish you to put a sock in this and go listen to some actual sex workers about what they actually think about being sex workers. Turns out there's a wide range of experiences. And not a one of them are helped by this sort of nonsense.

By and large, their biggest complaint in my experience is the stigma they are saddled with. You know. The thing you're contributing to while attempting to appear to care about them. Escorts, prostitutes and pornstars tend to be disturbed by the fact that they can generally be raped without legal recourse. That's pretty fucked. Weird how that fucked up status quo is only perpetuated by people making vague allusions to 'women getting hurt.'

If you want to help, start by listening. There's plenty of resources out there to listen to if you care to do so. You aren't helping with this attitude.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Erotic stories can be just as explicit as porn videos. Actually, scrap that. Far more explicit. In videos, you are at least bound by the laws of physics, and not inflicting lasting harm on the porn actors, so even the nastiest stuff is (well, should be) limited or pretend only.
Many authors of erotic stories go far beyond what can be seen in the videos. Faaar beyond.

 

[SimonDoom]

I see nothing wrong with porn, as a general concept. I have no interest in trying to wean people from it. This century has seen a very positive development in the porn industry, which is that the modern Internet economy enables women to be their own directors, producers, photographers, videographers, and agents, in addition to being the models/performers.

I prefer to see my stories as "in addition" to porn rather than "in place of" it.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

Eeh, Timmy... I hear what you're saying, but my libertine side is always skeptical about this complete fanatical demonization of the porn industry, mostly because these arguments and stories tend to be overblown, sensationalist, and even still bring up facts from people who may not be in the business anymore because it happened like almost a hundred years ago. Things are different, and while I still agree with many points, I'm not fully on board with this because... I do porn. Even if what I'm writing nowdays carries a lot of social commentary, I still do it as pornographic as possible, and I fucking love it.

Take it from me; a former cam girl. I may not be in the business anymore (yet), but even though I wasn't a pro (I didn't work for a studio), being in front of a webcam jerking my girlcock for tips helped me a lot for my hurt sexuality than opposing porn would ever do. The only reason I stopped is because porn is banned in my country. People started to be arrested for it randomly, and then a major scandal broke out in 2023 which showed that the law was mostly targeted against us LGBTQ+ individuals. Erotica is fine though, but it is very hypocritical that the government that banned pornography also hosted erotica contests years down the line.

 

[FrancesScott]

Hey, I've only started to publish. For me, Erotica stories have always been an alternative to porn, which I despise as an industry. People get hurt, mostly women, and I want to contribute to others finding their way our of it. I was wondering if other authors relate to the same idea? And if so, should we work on this together? Should we find ways to advertise our work?
In any case, here was my first attempt.
Really interested in what you think and what could be done! Let's keep it arousing and safe
Timmy, lover of stories

This is probably well-intentioned, but also misguided. Women get hurt in many fields of life. Maybe focus on allowing them reproductive freedom first, so they don’t end up seeking back street abortions. The rights of women are being assailed on many fronts.

There is nothing inherently evil about porn that it has to be stopped. Better conditions for sex workers would be a great start. Not stigmatizing what they do would be a good follow up.

But if you are very concerned about women in general, maybe get out and vote in the midterms. At least that might achieve something.

 

[Samuelx]

Like a boss

 

[Britva415]

"Facials compilation" was not on my bingo-card for "alternative to porn."

 

[KittyOfSteele]

"Facials compilation" was not on my bingo-card for "alternative to porn."

Maybe OP thinks just because it's written it isn't porn?

 

[Britva415]

Maybe OP thinks just because it's written it isn't porn?

Obviously - but writing about the pornyest of all porn tropes doesn't look like he's really over porn at all

 

[TheLobster]

I find it amusing how the hivemind consensus arrived on in this thread consists of two contradictory claims.

That on one hand, porn is all fine and peachy, that is not harmful at all, and that all that porn actresses and other sex workers really need is the waning and eventual disappearance of the stigma surrounding their profession.

But on the other hand, porn is also the main if not only source of the allegedly degrading (and thus presumably harmful?) tropes like facials, and these are a no-no and we should turn up our collective noses at it and those who enjoy them.

I know consistency is a rare commodity around here in general, but this instance struck me as particularly interesting.

 

[onehitwanda]

Women get hurt in many fields of life. Maybe focus on allowing them reproductive freedom first, so they don’t end up seeking back street abortions. The rights of women are being assailed on many fronts.

I wish I could give this more than one thumbs up.

 

[timmy02294197]

Oh hi everyone, thanks for all your opinions on this. It sounds indeed like I haven’t thought this through enough!
I might be biased because I’m French, and here we’ve had many occurrences recently of directors, producers getting arrested, and studios closed because they were involved in human trafficking, assault, and the like. And yes indeed I thought because it’s written it doesn’t hurt anyone. But it looks like in a way I was wrong. I’ll just go back to writing what I like to read then!

 

[NuclearFairy]

I’ll just go back to writing what I like to read then!

The best stories come from someone deciding to write what they or someone close to them wants to read.

 

[Astrotrain]

Women aren't being exploited if they're animated. Stick to hentai.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Oh hi everyone, thanks for all your opinions on this. It sounds indeed like I haven’t thought this through enough!
I might be biased because I’m French, and here we’ve had many occurrences recently of directors, producers getting arrested, and studios closed because they were involved in human trafficking, assault, and the like. And yes indeed I thought because it’s written it doesn’t hurt anyone. But it looks like in a way I was wrong. I’ll just go back to writing what I like to read then!

I don't mean to suggest that the porn industry is some kind of feminist paradise. There have been plenty of credible allegations of abuse in the US too - James Deen, Ron Jeremy, Lily Cade, to name but a few.

But when people like Harvey Weinstein, Roman Polanski and Woody Allen, or Diddy and so many other musicians, get accused of sexual assault, most people don't see this as reason for the whole film industry or the music industry to be shut down.

There is a real problem, but that problem is being used by people with an agenda that goes way beyond keeping women safe (and often ends up making women less safe) as an excuse to push a culture war.

Porn is also a big industry with many different faces; as mentioned above, a lot of performers are doing solo or self-employed work these days. For quite a few women, porn and other forms of sex work are ways to get the money they need to get out of abusive relationships or other bad situations.

"Write what you like to read" is usually good advice though.

 

[alohadave]

Nobody's going to jump on it? Okay, I'll do it. I'm in a mood.

It's hard to know where to start with this...

I for one don't welcome the concern trolling for sex workers. The nicest thing I can do in response is admonish you to put a sock in this and go listen to some actual sex workers about what they actually think about being sex workers. Turns out there's a wide range of experiences. And not a one of them are helped by this sort of nonsense.

By and large, their biggest complaint in my experience is the stigma they are saddled with. You know. The thing you're contributing to while attempting to appear to care about them. Escorts, prostitutes and pornstars tend to be disturbed by the fact that they can generally be raped without legal recourse. That's pretty fucked. Weird how that fucked up status quo is only perpetuated by people making vague allusions to 'women getting hurt.'

If you want to help, start by listening. There's plenty of resources out there to listen to if you care to do so. You aren't helping with this attitude.

Do you have any recommendations for interviews with sex workers or them telling their stories?

 

[filthytrancendence]

Do you have any recommendations for interviews with sex workers or them telling their stories?

The best public-facing one I've seen is Holly Randall's podcast

It's a bit of a mixed bag, which ends up being a good thing, I think. The topic and nature of subject matter is highly dependent on the guest. Sometimes it's just silly/porn-ey, but often they get pretty deep into stuff you might not expect. It's worth listening to more than one, is what I'm trying to say.

Because Holly is involved in porn specifically, most of the guests are porn stars, but she also interviews other kinds of sex workers, and I tend to think those are the more interesting episodes, of the ones I've listened to.

 

[SimonDoom]

Do you have any recommendations for interviews with sex workers or them telling their stories?

I concur about checking out Holly Randall's podcast. I also recommend looking up Aellagirl. She has worked as an escort, a cam model, an OnlyFans model, and she's been very successful at it. She was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family, so her perspective is interesting. She's highly intelligent, too.

 

[filthytrancendence]

Oh hi everyone, thanks for all your opinions on this. It sounds indeed like I haven’t thought this through enough!
I might be biased because I’m French, and here we’ve had many occurrences recently of directors, producers getting arrested, and studios closed because they were involved in human trafficking, assault, and the like. And yes indeed I thought because it’s written it doesn’t hurt anyone. But it looks like in a way I was wrong. I’ll just go back to writing what I like to read then!

I apologize for the aggression, then. Your OP read as very American in the 'whoops, I guess I'll vote for fascists to protect women' kind of way I have the displeasure of witnessing on a daily basis over here. My trigger finger is a little twitchy.

The point stands, but my tone was uncalled for. Bad shit happens in the porn industry, no doubt, but it happens more often than not because people still view sex workers as sub-human (police being the most egregious offenders), not because something is inherently wrong with the work itself. Throwing up your hands and calling the whole thing evil because of some bad shit you heard about just ends up hurting the people doing the work, because it pushes it further into the shadows.

 

[filthytrancendence]

I concur about checking out Holly Randall's podcast. I also recommend looking up Aellagirl. She has worked as an escort, a cam model, an OnlyFans model, and she's been very successful at it. She was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family, so her perspective is interesting. She's highly intelligent, too.

Shit, I can't believe I didn't think of Aella. Good call, and in a different medium. Here's the link to her blog: https://aella.substack.com/

 

[filthytrancendence]

I find it amusing how the hivemind consensus arrived on in this thread consists of two contradictory claims.

That on one hand, porn is all fine and peachy, that is not harmful at all, and that all that porn actresses and other sex workers really need is the waning and eventual disappearance of the stigma surrounding their profession.

But on the other hand, porn is also the main if not only source of the allegedly degrading (and thus presumably harmful?) tropes like facials, and these are a no-no and we should turn up our collective noses at it and those who enjoy them.

I know consistency is a rare commodity around here in general, but this instance struck me as particularly interesting.

I know this may come as a surprise to someone of your intellectual persuasion, but not everyone who disagrees with you agrees with each other. There isn't a hivemind, even if it may appear that way from where you're sitting, on account of the fact you manage to make even people who disagree with each other unite in our distaste for many of the things you say.

 

[Britva415]

porn is also the main if not only source of the allegedly degrading (and thus presumably harmful?) tropes like facials

By saying what I said, I didn't say anything at all about whether it was degrading and harmful OR whether it was fine and peachy. I was just pointing out incongruity between the post and the linked story.

That's not hivemind consensus, that's just the OP.