Not a whine (well maybe) - re official comps

[Comshaw]

For me, it’s the dichotomy between the comps being rather restrictive - like Nude Day is only really going to appeal to E/V writers - and also writing for them seems like the main way to get lasting exposure.

Sure you could treat them like a writing exercise, but is that going to lead to a story you put your heart and soul into? I’m not going to write a novella on a theme I have little interest in. I suspect it’s the same for others.

Soemone asked about what’s the alternative? I’d say four comps a year with no restrictions on theme. Greater flexibility and still the scope for exposure.

Each contest's requirements are so broad, so open-ended it puzzles me as to how you see them as so restrictive. Take "Summer Lovin'" for example. The only requirement is that it be in the summer. The contest requirements aren't any more restrictive than the site rules in general. Actually, I think they are less restrictive than the standard site rules.

I take it as a challenge to write the story I want to and still remain within the parameters of the requirements. Call it an exercise in adaptability. I think of it like this: I point my imagination in a direction and tell it, "You have to stay twixt those guard rails. Now go find me something out of the ordinary." For we it's more than a writing exercise, it's a life lesson.

One of the masters of that mindset was Smoky Yunick. He was a NASCAR legend. He did things like acid dipping the frame and bodies of his race cars to significantly reduce the weight. The regulations specified the capacity of a fuel tank. So he used a 4" diameter fuel line to give his cars a few more gallons of fuel. A huge advantage over the competition.

It may not seem like what was done to a race car can equate to writing in a contest. The actual act no, it's more about the mindset. "What can I do to push the boundaries of the rules and still stay within the legal confines of those rules?" That's the way innovation happens, be it a stock car or an erotic story.


Comshaw

 

[SimonDoom]

What do you base this claim on? Not being challenging, I just don’t see it as being self-evidently true. I’m not sure we can say that readers want one thing vs another. I don’t see why non-themed comps would be inherently unfriendly to readers.

I agree, it's not self-evidently true. But I think it's reasonable to assume the site owners do what they do for a reason--it works.

I don't think readers would care about non-themed contests. If they want to seek out the highest-rated stories, they can, without contests. What would such contests add? I don't see how they add any value to the site or to the reader experience. A non-themed contest where authors are chasing the highest possible score. That doesn't seem worthwhile to me. I suspect the site agrees.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Each contest's requirements are so broad, so open-ended it puzzles me as to how you see them as so restrictive. Take "Summer Lovin'" for example. The only requirement is that it be in the summer. The contest requirements aren't any more restrictive than the site rules in general. Actually, I think they are less restrictive than the standard site rules.

Mine is a May/September auntcest wedding and honeymoon taking place in late August.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I can cope with Halloween. I can kind of cope with Valentine’s. But April Fool’s? Nude Day? Summer Lovin’? Winter Holidays?

I feel we have some arguments here which are along the lines of: it’s always been that way. It’s kind of staid and stale in my own personal opinion. I say that as a reader as well as a writer.

I won't defend Nude Day. If Laurel let me kibosh one that would be it.
Winter Holidays is just Christmas, which is still a huge thing.

My understanding is April Fool's is the least popular contest. It's definitely the narrowest, and would be my second choice to go.

Summer Lovin is an incredibly broad category though, hard to find fault there. It's a bit of a catchall.

I think the issue is that if they don't replace them with some sort of rotating topics anything they pick is going to get just as stale.

I'd replace Nude Day with the On the Job challenge or something similar. It's really broad.

The rest, I'd have to think about it more.

 

[FrancesScott]

The only requirement is that it be in the summer.

Many stories will last more than a season, particularly the longer ones… By definition, anything like a main character growing over a number of years doesn’t fit. Unless you artificially just do the summer of each year.

 

[FrancesScott]

"What can I do to push the boundaries of the rules and still stay within the legal confines of those rules?"

We all approach our art differently. I want to write, not to write to order. But I realize some may take a more relaxed approach, or even like such restrictions, seeing them as a virtue. But does every comp have to be so narrow? Why not make two of them open to any theme. I’d drop April Fool’s and Nude Day and replace them with open comps.

 

[iwatchus]

I agree, it's not self-evidently true. But I think it's reasonable to assume the site owners do what they do for a reason--it works.

I don't think readers would care about non-themed contests. If they want to seek out the highest-rated stories, they can, without contests. What would such contests add? I don't see how they add any value to the site or to the reader experience. A non-themed contest where authors are chasing the highest possible score. That doesn't seem worthwhile to me. I suspect the site agrees.

I generally agree with you but you consistently assume Laurel and Manu understand what users (readers) want. I find that strikingly naive. Most site owners continue to do whatever they think made the site successfully initially with little understanding of what would actually make the product better in any sense of the word

 

[iwatchus]

Many stories will last more than a season, particularly the longer ones… By definition, anything like a main character growing over a number of years doesn’t fit. Unless you artificially just do the summer of each year.

I think centering a story on a particular summer would be fine. I think your story could be written as part of the contest

 

[FrancesScott]

A non-themed contest where authors are chasing the highest possible score. That doesn't seem worthwhile to me. I suspect the site agrees.

I am honestly trying to understand. What is it about themes that is so special? I don’t see why non-themed work would be less appealing. Absent any other info, I would say themes would put off as many readers as they attract. Then I don’t know so much about what goes on in this place.

 

[mrs_mackenzie]

I just use them (and the author challenges) as a kind of prompt to create something within those guidelines. The actual restrictions are quite broad and I think people have wide interpretations of e.g. what counts as 'Christmas-themed' so I don't feel unduly constrained.

Having said that, Nude Day is tricky and I absolutely cannot get April Fool's right. The concept of tricking people and consensual sex just don't sit well together.

 

[FrancesScott]

I generally agree with you but you consistently assume Laurel and Manu understand what users (readers) want. I find that strikingly naive. Most site owners continue to do whatever they think made the site successfully initially with little understanding of what would actually make the product better in any sense of the word

 

[iwatchus]

I won't defend Nude Day. If Laurel let me kibosh one that would be it.
Winter Holidays is just Christmas, which is still a huge thing.

My understanding is April Fool's is the least popular contest. It's definitely the narrowest, and would be my second choice to go.

Summer Lovin is an incredibly broad category though, hard to find fault there. It's a bit of a catchall.

I think the issue is that if they don't replace them with some sort of rotating topics anything they pick is going to get just as stale.

I'd replace Nude Day with the On the Job challenge or something similar. It's really broad.

The rest, I'd have to think about it more.

I may be biased because my nude day story was my favorite thing I have written. But I thought there were some clever valid entries. See @Actingup entry about the music festival as an example

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I am honestly trying to understand. What is it about themes that is so special?

Why are there cop shows, medical shows, shows in bars or at work or about families or sports teams?

 

[FrancesScott]

Why are there cop shows, medical shows, shows in bars or at work or about families or sports teams?

Those are genres. Personally I’d be fine with comps along those lines. You have much more flexibility writing a cop story, or a sport story, than one that focuses on April Fool’s or Nude Day.

You can argue the toss on Summer Lovin’ or Winter Holidays. Halloween at least has multiple options. But April Fool’s and Nude Day seem very narrow.

Someone mentioned the On The Job event. It probably sums up my view to say:

“All of the story must take place in a work environment” - way too restrictive

Vs

“The story must center on a workplace, but can have scenes outside of that context if they help tell the story” - that works for me

 

[Erozetta]

I am honestly trying to understand. What is it about themes that is so special? I don’t see why non-themed work would be less appealing. Absent any other info, I would say themes would put off as many readers as they attract. Then I don’t know so much about what goes on in this place.

The special part is it's different than any other day of the year you can enter any story on any subject on the site.

Benefits to themes:

1. Gives authors and readers a fair focus on which to grade stories.
2. Controls entries to a degree that is actually manageable for readers to go through.
3. It creates a challenge for writers.
4. It sets some stories apart from the every day entries.
5. The list is tidy because all stories follow the theme.
6. It's a little more difficult to stick to a theme than to write whatever.

Negatives to themes:

1. It can narrow the subject matter.
2. Some people feel constrained by the limitations.
3. They get repetitive.

Ultimately the themes are what make the entries stand out from the stuff posted every single day on the site. Do away with the themes and you might as well do away with the contests completely.

 

[FrancesScott]

Gives authors and readers a fair focus on which to grade stories.

I couldn’t disagree more. This upholds the fiction that the comps are fair. I read here long before I wrote. The comps are just like anything else where you get “the public” to vote, they are popularity contests. Some excellent stores occasionally win, but this is far from typical.

I’m not whining about this, there is no good alternative. But appealing to objective fairness in the context of comps isn’t a strong argument.

I guess writers fall into two groups. Those who are happy to comply with comp restrictions in order to get the exposure, and those who aren’t. I suspect this is the same divide as between those happy to write to an audience, and those who hate that idea.

I suppose that just rules out comps for me. Thing is, I’m not unique. Other authors will feel the same. What you get is a perpetuation of the status quo by those who are comfortable with it. That feels lazy and boring.

Someone else (not you) argued ‘what’s different between a non-themed comp and every day on Lit?’ Rather obviously, the dedicated list of stories that persists over time, unlike virtually everything else here.

 

[FrancesScott]

Ultimately the themes are what make the entries stand out from the stuff posted every single day on the site. Do away with the themes and you might as well do away with the contests completely.

So how come so many literary prizes are for non-themed work (or focus on genres, like SciFi)? There are comps outside of Lit and most of them don’t seem focused on the Lit themes.

 

[Comshaw]

We all approach our art differently. I want to write, not to write to order. But I realize some may take a more relaxed approach, or even like such restrictions, seeing them as a virtue. But does every comp have to be so narrow? Why not make two of them open to any theme. I’d drop April Fool’s and Nude Day and replace them with open comps.

Like the three blind men and the elephant, we each see a different side to the same situation. My advice: suggest it to the powers that be. If they don't accept your suggestions, you have two choices: run with what is or let it eat at you. Choose wisely.

Comshaw

 

[FrancesScott]

If they don't accept your suggestions, you have two choices: run with what is or let it eat at you. Choose wisely.

I think that’s a weird way of putting things. I see variants of that statement a lot around here. “It’s how it’s always been, nothing will change.”

Sure, might be true, but I see nothing wrong with talking about a different approach. Most online communities ossify if they don’t change over time. We do seem to have Zombie comps here. But hey, people like Zombies.

Also you seem to think I’m lying awake at night worrying about this. I was more interested in what people thought. It seems some agree with me and some don’t. Saying “It’s what it is, deal with it!” appears to be something longstanding members reach for very easily.

Perhaps this is part of why this place feels like a club for long-term members, not an organic community where new ideas are welcome.

I get it. I’ll let you get back to the normal topics being disussed ad infinitum. Much more comfortable.

 

[iwatchus]

I think that’s a weird way of putting things. I see variants of that statement a lot around here. “It’s how it’s always been, nothing will change.”

Sure, might be true, but I see nothing wrong with talking about a different approach. Most online communities ossify if they don’t change over time. We do seem to have Zombie comps here. But hey, people like Zombies.

Also you seem to think I’m lying awake at night worrying about this. I was more interested in what people thought. It seems some agree with me and some don’t. Saying “It’s what it is, deal with it!” appears to be something longstanding members reach for very easily.

Perhaps this is part of why this place feels like a club for long-term members, not an organic community where new ideas are welcome.

I get it. I’ll let you get back to the normal topics being disussed ad infinitum. Much more comfortable.

I hope that threads like this can make a difference on the site. That Laurel made a comment on a thread yesterday(?) makes me suspect she at least occasionally scans the forum. I would not be surprised if this is a thread she will read. At least until i gets hijacked for bad puns or an argument about pineapple on pizza.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I don't participate in the competitions, but I do enjoy reading some of them. The ones I enjoy are themed with an idea rather than a season. Like the 'we need to talk' theme once on LW. You might have 'fighting siblings' in incest.
The result for the reader is that over a couple days you get some interesting, easy to find, reads.

 

[StillStunned]

Let's start a petition for an annual WIWAW Contest.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Many stories will last more than a season, particularly the longer ones… By definition, anything like a main character growing over a number of years doesn’t fit. Unless you artificially just do the summer of each year.

If they met in the summer it's good enough. No one rigidly polices that.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I am honestly trying to understand. What is it about themes that is so special? I don’t see why non-themed work would be less appealing. Absent any other info, I would say themes would put off as many readers as they attract. Then I don’t know so much about what goes on in this place.

Because if the readers aren't interested in themes they can just read the rest of the site, the "all time best" lists in the various categories.
Why do radio stations play Christmas music all through December? Why are there a million Christmas movies?
People like it.
Same for Halloween, there are tons of Halloween themed movies, TV show episodes, etc.
People like it.

The other categories are weaker, although you can make an argument for the summer time theme. Plenty of songs and movies about summer.
People like themes... it's what interests the readers. Laurel and Manu are convinced enough of that to bribe us to write themed stories via the contests.

 

[FrancesScott]

People like themes... it's what interests the readers.

It’s the robustness of this assertion that I’m not clear about. Do people not read on Lit except when Nude Day stories are published?

I think the “the comps pull in readers” is because they are comps, not because they are April Fool’s stories. An open comp would draw people just the same IMO. Absent any data (and I agree that Laurel and Manu don’t employ a team of data scientists, operating much as anyone else on this thread) my hypothesis has as much standing as any other one.