For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[ChloeTzang]

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

View attachment 2551589

Looked like the US blew its chance to influence a quick and decisive Ukraine victory in the early days of the war by waffling over what weapons to provide and how they could be used.

But that’s water under the bridge. Given geopolitical realities, when does this war end?

 

[ChloeTzang]

Ukraine launches massive aerial assault on Russia

Ukraine launched a large-scale missile attack overnight targeting Russian military infrastructure in occupied eastern Ukraine and several regions within the Russian Federation, according to multiple sources and regional monitoring channels. The operation, which appears to be a direct response to a recent Russian missile strike on Ukrainian territory, reportedly involved a mix of cUnofficial military channels claimed that the strike may have included the use of a “new Ukrainian cruise missile.” While no official statement has confirmed this, the channel suggested the missile was aimed at a high-value Russian military position in Donetsk.ruise missiles and potentially a new Ukrainian ballistic system. Explosions were reported in occupied Donetsk and Yasynuvata, as well as in Russia’s Rostov and Volgograd regions and occupied Crimea.

A Russian war correspondent, Dmitry Steshin, confirmed the attack in a post on his Telegram channel, writing: “Donetsk is shaking, something that sounded like a jet zipped overhead, then there was a series of two dozen explosions. That wasn’t air defense.” According to reports from open-source intelligence trackers and regional authorities, at least ten cruise missiles struck military targets across Rostov and Volgograd Oblasts. Air raid alerts were issued in multiple districts, and several Russian Telegram channels reported secondary explosions at what appeared to be storage facilities or command sites. At 9:51 p.m. Moscow time, authorities in Russia’s Krasnodar region issued a missile warning for the Black Sea coastal area. “Missile danger. Zone: Black Sea coast of Krasnodar region!” read an alert on the official Telegram channel “Operational Warning Krasnodar Region.” Local residents were advised to seek shelter indoors, avoid windows, and not touch debris or warhead fragments, with warnings that some elements “may be contaminated with toxic substances.”

The alert was lifted at 10:26 p.m., the channel later reported.

Earlier, air raid sirens had sounded in Sevastopol, according to a statement from the city’s Russian-appointed governor Mikhail Razvozhayev. An alert was also issued in the vicinity of the Kerch Bridge, which connects occupied Crimea to mainland Russia. While Russian media has largely downplayed the scope of the attacks, social media posts from residents in affected areas describe widespread panic and audible impacts late into the night. Photos and videos posted online, which remain unverified, show plumes of smoke rising from multiple sites. As of Monday evening, air raid alerts were still active in parts of southern Russia, reflecting ongoing concerns over additional missile strikes.

https://defence-blog.com/ukraine-launches-massive-aerial-assault-on-russia/

 

[ChloeTzang]

Looked like the US blew its chance to influence a quick and decisive Ukraine victory in the early days of the war by waffling over what weapons to provide and how they could be used.

But that’s water under the bridge. Given geopolitical realities, when does this war end?

Yeah. Biden blew it intially, by not giving Ukraine enough weapos up front. Trumps is blowing it now by not supporting at all, but rather active;y supporting Putin.

When will it end? When Russia is defeated because Putin won't stop, and if he wins and Ukraine collapses, then there's be millions of Ukrainian refugees pouring into the EU and Putin will turn on the Baltic States.

At that ppoint either NATO and the US steps up and its WW3, or Trump backs down, NATO fights without the US and it's WW3, or Trump backs down, NATO folds,and Russia has won EE3 and the USA is fucked because China will see that for what it is and take Taiwan. Japan and South Korea will see the USA for what its is under Trump and switch to an agreement with China, as will Australia. And that point the USA will be done as a world power.

Given Trump is actively siding with Putin, the only real option is that the EU steps it up and gives Ukraine enough assistance to defeat Russia. And that means a Russian collapse and the dissolution of the Russian Federation. ANything ;ess will be like Versaille 1919 - Russia will come back in 20 years for Round Two.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Looked like the US blew its chance to influence a quick and decisive Ukraine victory in the early days of the war by waffling over what weapons to provide and how they could be used.

Trump praised Putin in the early days of the invasion. No waffling from him. He’s always been solidly behind Russia.

 

[ChloeTzang]

the new German government now supports Ukraine’s membership in NATO

Zelenskyy made the remarks before a meeting with German Foreign Minister Johann Wadephul.

“This is a very important step, aside from our future in the European Union,” said the president.

“I want to thank you personally for a signal that we have not heard from the German side in a very long time, perhaps ever. At the [June 25] NATO summit, during a meeting of NATO and Ukrainian foreign ministers, the German side said it believes Ukraine should be in the Alliance, and that this is in the security interest of all Europe.”

https://english.nv.ua/nation/zelenskyy-hails-berlin-s-u-turn-on-ukraine-in-nato-50526193.html

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Trump praised Putin in the early days of the invasion. No waffling from him. He’s always been solidly behind Russia.

Biden was president when Russia invaded Ukraine in February, 2022. He left office nearly 3 years later in January, 2025 with no end to the war in sight.

You’re welcome to take a shot at answering the question I asked Chloe. She demurred. Given the geopolitical realities, when (and how) does this war end?

 

[ChloeTzang]

Biden was president when Russia invaded Ukraine in February, 2022. He left office nearly 3 years later in January, 2025 with no end to the war in sight.

You’re welcome to take a shot at answering the question I asked Chloe. She demurred. Given the geopolitical realities, when (and how) does this war end?

Seriously, when Russia collapse, Putin eats a lead pill or dies, and the Russians are forced to withdraw from Ukraine (economic or military collapse) and the Russian Federation disintegrates, as it will.

 

[dmallord]

Looked like the US blew its chance to influence a quick and decisive Ukraine victory in the early days of the war by waffling over what weapons to provide and how they could be used.

But that’s water under the bridge. Given geopolitical realities, when does this war end?

The U.S. absolutely missed its chance early on. A decisive Ukrainian victory may have been possible if we hadn't spent the first critical months debating which weapons to send—and what strings to attach. That hesitation cost lives and momentum. And yes, Biden tried to balance support without provoking escalation, but walking a tightrope in a burning house rarely works.

He had congressional backing in the early stages. He should’ve used it to apply maximum pressure: surge Ukraine with the weapons they needed then, not months later, and lock down Russia’s economy with sanctions that bit deep. He didn’t—and that hesitation is on him. But the blame doesn’t end there. NATO’s leading European nations also played it safe, hiding behind caution while Ukraine fought for survival.

As for Trump—the so-called “president of peace”—he's been anything but. In the face of an unprovoked invasion by America’s adversary, he chose narcissism over principle. He floated mafia-style demands, dangled aid like ransom, and cut support when Ukraine didn’t bow. That isn’t diplomacy. It’s extortion.

Putin, for his part, misread nearly everything—Ukraine’s will to resist, his own army’s readiness, and the new shape of modern warfare. His economy is now in a slow freefall, and his battlefield strategy has devolved into attrition and desperation.

This war won’t end until Europe stops relying on the U.S. to carry the burden and starts leading. The EU must step out of the American shadow and fully arm Ukraine, not just to survive but to win. Because one thing’s clear: help won’t come from the "defender of peace." He’s too busy defending himself against tariffs and immigrants while seeking self-enrichment.

 

[Lazaran]

Yeah. Biden blew it intially, by not giving Ukraine enough weapos up front.

You can stop with that ^ bullshit canard any time now…





Fact:

President Biden could NOT just unilaterally give Ukraine “enough weapons up front”.



Lest we forget, it was like pulling teeth to get the republicans (MAGAts) to do more than give lip service to their support for Ukraine (many MAGAts - especially DonOld - are Russian sympathizers or assets), so the suggestion that they would have just signed off on unlimited / unregulated weapons transfers to Ukraine is fucking laughable.



AND, lest we forget, President Biden was dealing with a fuckton of other issues at the time Russia made it clear they were going to fully invade Ukraine.



AND, lest we forget, President Biden (the entire administration really) STILL rallied the defense of Ukraine magnificently.



Hope that ^ helps.





We. Told. Them. So.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Seriously, when Russia collapse, Putin eats a lead pill or dies, and the Russians are forced to withdraw from Ukraine (economic or military collapse) and the Russian Federation disintegrates, as it will.

That’s likely to be years.

 

[Lance_Castro]

True, Biden did a piss poor job in defending ukraine…. But his family grift there went well!

https://oversight.house.gov/the-bidens-influence-peddling-timeline/

The U.S. absolutely missed its chance early on. A decisive Ukrainian victory may have been possible if we hadn't spent the first critical months debating which weapons to send—and what strings to attach. That hesitation cost lives and momentum. And yes, Biden tried to balance support without provoking escalation, but walking a tightrope in a burning house rarely works.

He had congressional backing in the early stages. He should’ve used it to apply maximum pressure: surge Ukraine with the weapons they needed then, not months later, and lock down Russia’s economy with sanctions that bit deep. He didn’t—and that hesitation is on him. But the blame doesn’t end there. NATO’s leading European nations also played it safe, hiding behind caution while Ukraine fought for survival.

As for Trump—the so-called “president of peace”—he's been anything but. In the face of an unprovoked invasion by America’s adversary, he chose narcissism over principle. He floated mafia-style demands, dangled aid like ransom, and cut support when Ukraine didn’t bow. That isn’t diplomacy. It’s extortion.

Putin, for his part, misread nearly everything—Ukraine’s will to resist, his own army’s readiness, and the new shape of modern warfare. His economy is now in a slow freefall, and his battlefield strategy has devolved into attrition and desperation.

This war won’t end until Europe stops relying on the U.S. to carry the burden and starts leading. The EU must step out of the American shadow and fully arm Ukraine, not just to survive but to win. Because one thing’s clear: help won’t come from the "defender of peace." He’s too busy defending himself against tariffs and immigrants while seeking self-enrichment.

 

[ChloeTzang]

That’s likely to be years.

2026 or 2027 likely.

President Biden could NOT just unilaterally give Ukraine “enough weapons up front”.

Biden had congressional backing from the GOP in the early stages., enought that they approved billions that Biden never used. There was no objection to seneding old Brad;eys or Strykers or F16's or HIMARS or even Patriots. What there was, was timidity and fear in the White House, an ongoing fixation on giving Putin an off-ramp that it was blatanty obvious he would never use except under way ,ore pressure that was exerted, milquetoast sanctions to start with, and an ongoing fear that Ukraine would "win". US aid was feeble at best, always late, and mever enough.

On the other hand, at least Biden supported Ukraine - but he, or I should say his "advisors" who actually ran the country, because 's more and more obvious that Biden was just a figurehead who had little grasp as to what was actually going on, tried to use Ukraine to play internal US politics to hurt the GOP with. They did this at a time when they should have been cementing bipartisan support for Ukraine and floodimg the country with US military air - and at low costs too - all those old Bradley's at book value were next to nothing, Instead they used Ukraine Air as a Democrat boondoglle, siphoning off god knws how many billions by boking them air sent at replacement cost" - and not replacing them. So what happened to that money? Of course the GOP quislings backed that bullshit - boondoggles all round - the military-industrial complex is entrenched in the Senate - but Biden played it for all it was worth, as well as destroying whatever consensus existed (and still exists - witness the Graham Blumenthal bill on sanctions), and actively sabotaging aid for Ukraone at a crucual moment when Russia was attacking.

Both sides come out stinking of shit in this. Between Biden and Trump, they have turned what should not be our closest friend in Europe and a firm ally and trading partner for the next hundred years into a country that now regards the USA as a bunch of back-stabbing assholes who have betrayed them again and again - and they'd be right. We've also turned the EU against us very successfully. Their leaders will all make kissy face, but you can pretty much bet that Europe is done with the USA as an ally once they are standing on their own two feet militarily. We'll see a tripartite power structure emerge - China-Europe-USA, with Japan, South Korea, Australia and Canada aligning with the EU rather than the USA

Trumo's sucessor as President (likely to be Vance, because Democrats are doubling down on the idiocy rather than seeing the light) will cement that, likely irrevocably

 

[icanhelp1]

2026 or 2027 likely.



Biden had congressional backing from the GOP in the early stages., enought that they approved billions that Biden never used. There was no objection to seneding old Brad;eys or Strykers or F16's or HIMARS or even Patriots. What there was, was timidity and fear in the White House, an ongoing fixation on giving Putin an off-ramp that it was blatanty obvious he would never use except under way ,ore pressure that was exerted, milquetoast sanctions to start with, and an ongoing fear that Ukraine would "win". US aid was feeble at best, always late, and mever enough.

On the other hand, at least Biden supported Ukraine - but he, or I should say his "advisors" who actually ran the country, because 's more and more obvious that Biden was just a figurehead who had little grasp as to what was actually going on, tried to use Ukraine to play internal US politics to hurt the GOP with. They did this at a time when they should have been cementing bipartisan support for Ukraine and floodimg the country with US military air - and at low costs too - all those old Bradley's at book value were next to nothing, Instead they used Ukraine Air as a Democrat boondoglle, siphoning off god knws how many billions by boking them air sent at replacement cost" - and not replacing them. So what happened to that money? Of course the GOP quislings backed that bullshit - boondoggles all round - the military-industrial complex is entrenched in the Senate - but Biden played it for all it was worth, as well as destroying whatever consensus existed (and still exists - witness the Graham Blumenthal bill on sanctions), and actively sabotaging aid for Ukraone at a crucual moment when Russia was attacking.

Both sides come out stinking of shit in this. Between Biden and Trump, they have turned what should not be our closest friend in Europe and a firm ally and trading partner for the next hundred years into a country that now regards the USA as a bunch of back-stabbing assholes who have betrayed them again and again - and they'd be right. We've also turned the EU against us very successfully. Their leaders will all make kissy face, but you can pretty much bet that Europe is done with the USA as an ally once they are standing on their own two feet militarily. We'll see a tripartite power structure emerge - China-Europe-USA, with Japan, South Korea, Australia and Canada aligning with the EU rather than the USA

Trumo's sucessor as President (likely to be Vance, because Democrats are doubling down on the idiocy rather than seeing the light) will cement that, likely irrevocably

Biden fucked it up even before the Russians invaded. His statement

"DON'T"

was laughable on it's face!!

Putin knew Biden was an extension of Obama's appeasement and apology agenda.

Hell, Biden wouldn't shoot back even when the houthis were shooting at our troops

 

[icanhelp1]

The U.S. absolutely missed its chance early on. A decisive Ukrainian victory may have been possible if we hadn't spent the first critical months debating which weapons to send—and what strings to attach. That hesitation cost lives and momentum. And yes, Biden tried to balance support without provoking escalation, but walking a tightrope in a burning house rarely works.

He had congressional backing in the early stages. He should’ve used it to apply maximum pressure: surge Ukraine with the weapons they needed then, not months later, and lock down Russia’s economy with sanctions that bit deep. He didn’t—and that hesitation is on him. But the blame doesn’t end there. NATO’s leading European nations also played it safe, hiding behind caution while Ukraine fought for survival.

As for Trump—the so-called “president of peace”—he's been anything but. In the face of an unprovoked invasion by America’s adversary, he chose narcissism over principle. He floated mafia-style demands, dangled aid like ransom, and cut support when Ukraine didn’t bow. That isn’t diplomacy. It’s extortion.

Putin, for his part, misread nearly everything—Ukraine’s will to resist, his own army’s readiness, and the new shape of modern warfare. His economy is now in a slow freefall, and his battlefield strategy has devolved into attrition and desperation.

This war won’t end until Europe stops relying on the U.S. to carry the burden and starts leading. The EU must step out of the American shadow and fully arm Ukraine, not just to survive but to win. Because one thing’s clear: help won’t come from the "defender of peace." He’s too busy defending himself against tariffs and immigrants while seeking self-enrichment.

You just can't help yourself can you? TDS on steroids.

 

[ll74]

Biden fucked it up even before the Russians invaded. His statement

"DON'T"

was laughable on it's face!!

Putin knew Biden was an extension of Obama's appeasement and apology agenda.

Hell, Biden wouldn't shoot back even when the houthis were shooting at our troops

Umm.....guy who used caps lock, colors and underlines to express his feelings about Biden has this to say about someone discussing Trump in regular font

You just can't help yourself can you? TDS on steroids.

Lmao

 

[icanhelp1]

Umm.....guy who used caps lock, colors and underlines to express his feelings about Biden has this to say about someone discussing Trump in regular font

Lmao

Because people like Ducky and Laz, and in some cases you, just refuse to hold Biden accountable for anything.

 

[ll74]

Because people like Ducky and Laz, and in some cases you, just refuse to hold Biden accountable for anything.

LMAO...some self reflection here is warranted for ya.

I'm proud of you for not enlarging his name in a different color bolded and inderlined on this one

 

[Lance_Castro]

Biden was weak. And old.

 

[ChloeTzang]

You just can't help yourself can you? TDS on steroids.

I'd differ from you there. What Don said about Biden was 100% correct, and as for Trump on Ukraine, that also was 100% corrrect.

As for Trump—the so-called “president of peace”—he's been anything but - can't argue with that.
- On the one hand, he's fired a warning shot at Iran and backed Israel, he's cowed the Houthi's, sort of, and he's used airpower to do it rathner than boots on the ground - good
- On the other hand, and far more dangerously, he's overtly and openly supported Putin and backstabbed Zelensky, more or less openly supporting Putin's terrorism campaign against Ukrainian civilians and failing to provide any ongoing support for Ukraine beyond what Biden arraged, and nt only that, he has not agreed to seel any air defense systems or weapons to Ukraine and took away 20,000 missiles that were urgently needed for the defense of Ukrainian civilians. Makes him more the "president of mass murder"

In the face of an unprovoked invasion by America’s adversary, he chose narcissism over principle. He floated mafia-style demands, dangled aid like ransom, and cut support when Ukraine didn’t bow. That isn’t diplomacy. It’s extortion. And THAT is 100% correct, it was openly stated and done, and it's completelt reprehensible and cannot be denied.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Biden was weak. And old.

And he wasn't in charge of anything. It's more and more obvious, eben to the blind, that he wasn't even in charge of changing his own diapers.

Between Biden and Trump. we've had a dysfunctional Presidency for the last 8 years and it's going to go on for the next 4 at least, and probably longer because the Democrats right now have no-one

 

[Lance_Castro]

Biden was passed over by obama for Hillary, so Biden’s Presidency was more about it being his turn and an I’ll show you to Obama and Hillary, who then both disappeared during his Presidency.

The 3 of them killed the party’s future in the process…. That vaccuum let Trump back in.

Thats why the so called Dem posters here are the ones to blame.

They stood around calling names, nothing else.

And they’re not even very good at that.
Lol

 

[MajorRewrite]

Sane people: “Trump praised Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, right from the start.”

MAGA sheep: “Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiden! Biiiiiiiden! Biiiiiden is old!”

 

[Lance_Castro]

Sane people: “Trump praised Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, right from the start.”

MAGA sheep: “Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiden! Biiiiiiiden! Biiiiiden is old!”

Sleepy Joe & The Tramp …Americans don’t know how to pick a President!

 

[Rebel5soul]

Sane people: “Trump praised Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, right from the start.”

MAGA sheep: “Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiden! Biiiiiiiden! Biiiiiden is old!”

Provide a direct quote or STFU.