Transgender OR Crossdressing

[THBGato]

Hi everyone

Given the fact that there are now two new categories, and that I've never published in either, I'd like the hive-mind's advice on where to publish a story I'm writing.

Spoiler alert: if you are somebody who enjoys reading my stories, and I know there are a few AH regulars who do, maybe don't read this rest of this.

[SPOILER]
It will involve two biologically female people, Clara and Sol, falling in love. Except when Clara (the pov character) first meets Sol, she thinks that Sol is male. They then get to know each other via correspondence and nothing in that really arises to change Clara's initial judgement. By the time she works it out, she's emotionally invested and, crucially, open-minded enough to give a physical relationship a try. However, they only have hetero-style sex: Sol wears a strap-on, under boxer shorts, Clara is the only one penetrated, she doesn't finger or perform oral on Sol (at his request). Sol thinks of himself as male, though has no intention of ever physically altering his (female) body. Clara manages, most of the time, to think of him as male too. Their friends accept him as male (though families are another matter).
[/SPOILER]

Despite my readership being in Lesbian, that feels like the wrong category. So my question is, would this be Crossdressing or Transgender?

I've nearly finished the story, BUT I think I should have a clearer idea of the category beforehand, so I can lean that way more. This wouldn't have been an issue a couple of weeks ago!

 

[AwkwardMD]

The real answer there is dependent on how Sol sees themselves. Does Sol think of themselves as trans masc, a cross dresser, or something else (like non-binary)?

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Like I said on another thread, to me :

CD is a clothing fetish, dressup, role play, costumes. Temporary, maybe an an evening or a weekend, maybe for shits n giggles, maybe titillation for sex.. Husband and wife swap clothes for a costume party where he goes as the hooker or the bride and she plays the pimp or groom. Hubby wears lingerie at home, maybe for his wife, maybe for himself. Nobody else knows about it. Brother and sister swap clothes and play with each other for a while. There might be some same sex stuff, but not necessarily.

If Hubby or the brother go out of the house to pick up guys for sex, that goes to GM probably.



Trans is more of a lifestyle choice where the people live that role long term and have relationships based on it. More like the OP's story.



To me anyways.

 

[THBGato]

The real answer there is dependent on how Sol sees themselves. Does Sol think of themselves as trans masc, a cross dresser, or something else (like non-binary)?

That's a very good question, and I can't answer it. Something else is probably the best answer (not non-binary: he is very much a he in his conception of himself). BUT this is kind of why I'm asking. I conceived this story (and wrote around 8,000 words) when Crossdressing and Transgender were one category, so I didn't have to be clear on this (especially as he is not the POV character).

Now they are separate categories, I kind of do.

He dresses male, but has a biologically female body. He will never change his body and go through transition.

 

[sinfantasy]

I would say transgender, given SOL identifies as Male and has similar preferences, despite the unwillingness for medical alteration. However, it's up to you on how nuanced you portray SOL.

I believe crossdresser would oversimplify SOL's character.

 

[AwkwardMD]

That's a very good question, and I can't answer it. Something else is probably the best answer (not non-binary: he is very much a he in his conception of himself). BUT this is kind of why I'm asking. I conceived this story (and wrote around 8,000 words) when Crossdressing and Transgender were one category, so I didn't have to be clear on this (especially as he is not the POV character).

Now they are separate categories, I kind of do.

He dresses male, but has a biologically female body. He will never change his body and go through transition.

Non-Binary is trans, or falls under the trans umbrella.

 

[Nynah]

Sol thinks of himself as male, though has no intention of ever physically altering his (female) body.

I think this is the key detail. There are a lot of trans men who don't go through with surgery, but they are still men.

Transgender would be the proper category for your story.

 

[THBGato]

Non-Binary is trans, or falls under the trans umbrella.

Sure, I get that. I was just saying that this isn't the case, yet it is "something else" as you said. It's something that only one other story on Lit appears (via a tag search) to deal with - I don't want to say what here.

 

[Britva415]

"Trans(ition)" is a social phenomenon even more than a medical phenomenon. So if Sol is passing societally as a man because Sol wants to pass as a man, then Sol has made that transition, regardless of any medical interventions or none. The attire furthers the transition, but it isn't the transition itself.

If Sol doesn't really want to pass as a man but someone mistook Sol as a man because of Sol's preferences for public attire, then that's crossdressing without transition.

So which is it? Is Sol a trans man or is Sol a crossdressing lesbian woman?

 

[AwkwardMD]

Sure, I get that. I was just saying that this isn't the case, yet it is "something else" as you said. It's something that only one other story on Lit appears (via a tag search) to deal with - I don't want to say what here.

No one can tell you how your characters are, and Lit's category system was, is, and will always be imperfect.

You know the right answer.

 

[THBGato]

You know the right answer.

I love your confidence in me!

Trans is more of a lifestyle choice where the people live that role long term and have relationships based on it.

I would say transgender, given SOL identifies as Male and has similar preferences, despite the unwillingness for medical alteration.

There are a lot of trans men who don't go through with surgery, but they are still men.

So if Sol is passing societally as a man because Sol wants to pass as a man, then Sol has made that transition, regardless of any medical interventions or none. The attire furthers the transition, but it isn't the transition itself.

Thanks everyone! That seems pretty unanimous. I genuinely came to the thread with an open mind and willing to hear arguments either way, but all of that seems to tie with how I see the character, so I think I have my answer. x

 

[Britva415]

if Sol is passing societally as a man because Sol wants to pass as a man

I shouldn't have said "pass," as that implies that Sol and transmen in general are not men, which is not what I wanted to suggest.

 

[TheLobster]

This thread is a great example why splitting the category was a bad idea. Not only it has deprived the body swap, forced feminization/masculinization and futanari stories of their natural home; but also introduced new dilemmas for authors of other previously fitting stories that didn’t exist before.

CD should really have been just merged into Fetish, and TG shouldn’t have lost the “gender bending fun” from its description. Alas, the milk is spilled.

 

[Bamagan]

My vote is for Transgender. I think there are enough behavioral clues in your synopsis to suggest that Sol is not merely dressing up for kicks.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think this is the key detail. There are a lot of trans men who don't go through with surgery, but they are still men.

And even for those who do go through some form of medical transition, there are several different options/stages. HRT, top surgery, phalloplasty, ... There's no one "the surgery" that defines a physical transition.

I shouldn't have said "pass," as that implies that Sol and transmen in general are not men, which is not what I wanted to suggest.

FWIW, plenty of trans people use "pass" to mean not being clocked as trans.

 

[Britva415]

FWIW, plenty of trans people use "pass" to mean not being clocked as trans.

Yep.

However, I feel like that's different from a non-trans person projecting that onto one (even a fictional one), and I had not made it clear that I was talking about "passability" strictly as a matter of appearance rather than talking about something like "closeting," or, about "passing for a man" as opposed to actually being one, regardless of appearance.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Sounds more like transgender to me, on the basis that the story theme, as you've described it here, seems more focussed on identity, rather the kink of wearing beautiful clothes.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

Sol thinks of himself as male, though has no intention of ever physically altering his (female) body. Clara manages, most of the time, to think of him as male too. Their friends accept him as male (though families are another matter).

The big misconception you have here, as the author, is that all of us trans folks must undergo through a medical procedure in order to transition. I don't personally take offense about it because it is a common misconception, and I even had that too at the beginning of my journey which was quite a source of anxiety because in my country, the LGBTQ+ community is... treated as second-class citizens even by the regime (in spite of the pride flags seen a couple of times during their rallies); especially by the law enforcement (porn is banned in my country, and they used this law as a justification for a raid in 2023 that caused a major scandal in which dozens of men were outed as gay by one of the officers leaking everything to the media), but that's a whole different topic. Just to let you know, many trans folks do have double lives in which they present in some situations as the gender they identify with, and in other situations as the gender they were assigned at birth. I'm actually one of them.

Now, if Sol thinks himself of male, his friends accept him as male, and Clara manages to see him as male, and Sol doesn't do this for the kicks, sounds like Sol ticks all the boxes to be an FtM transgender. If Sol is an enby, they would still be trans. Like I said, not every trans folk undergoes through medical procedures, including the non-invasive ones.

Story easily goes into Transgender.

 

[Cagivagurl]

It is a difficult question, and there is no single answer. There is also no wrong answer.
Assessing it on the information you provided, it is Sol, who provides the solution. Although they are no going to have gender ressignment surgery, thry see themselves as different. Born into one gender, that they feel uncomfortable inside...
You say they see themselves as male, live as a male, project as a male...
Even although they are not having the surgery. I'm making an assumption here... They are taking drugs to assist???
Transgender rather than crossdressing I think...
Crossdressing is more here a person may switch back and forth. They are perhaps not living their life as their other self...
Transgender I think (Only my opinion) Is for those who want to be treated, seen as how they project.

Cagivagurl

 

[KittyOfSteele]

Yep.

However, I feel like that's different from a non-trans person projecting that onto one (even a fictional one), and I had not made it clear that I was talking about "passability" strictly as a matter of appearance rather than talking about something like "closeting," or, about "passing for a man" as opposed to actually being one, regardless of appearance.

If it makes you feel better, I have discovered through my journey that passing has two functions. The social impact, which is actually not being clocked as trans, but there's also the personal impact on actually feeling good about yourself, on looking at your reflection on the mirror and seeing the person that you are. It's like... lingerie. Anyone assumes that lingerie is for men to be horny, but the functions of these garments is for women to feel desirable, to feel like everyone in the world would have sex with them. It's more about trusting yourself instead of relying on other people's views.

It is a difficult question, and there is no single answer. There is also no wrong answer.
Assessing it on the information you provided, it is Sol, who provides the solution. Although they are no going to have gender ressignment surgery, thry see themselves as different. Born into one gender, that they feel uncomfortable inside...
You say they see themselves as male, live as a male, project as a male...
Even although they are not having the surgery. I'm making an assumption here... They are taking drugs to assist???
Transgender rather than crossdressing I think...
Crossdressing is more here a person may switch back and forth. They are perhaps not living their life as their other self...
Transgender I think (Only my opinion) Is for those who want to be treated, seen as how they project.

Cagivagurl

Like I said, we don't need to undergo medical procedures to be trans, and that includes non-invasive ones such as HRT, and plenty of us switch back and forth between identities, myself included. There is a massive list of reasons for this, but the short version is that some countries have a lot of red tape to go through in order to get approved for HRT; let alone facial surgery or GRS. These things not only are expensive to the majority of the transgender population, but among the things that you have to go through is years of therapy, and then coming out of the closet and living as the gender you identify as for a while, which could be dangerous depending on the place where you live. And that is if you have access to these things, because I've seen people whose dysphoria is so bad that they self-medicate HRT because they can't access it, which is very dangerous. It could kill you.

In the Americas, the top three most transphobic contries are the United States, Brazil, and Venezuela, and God forbid if you're in the third one. Venezuela is one of the many countries in the world (and I believe one of the very few in the Americas) where transgender support is non-existent. There is no access to these procedures last time I checked, and some of the trans folks I've talked to from that country do get access to HRT through the gray market or the black market, and it is a luxury. Sure, politicians and lawyers like Tamara Adrián, and musicians like Arca are from Venezuela, but Arca had to work her ass off to transition while she endured a lot of hate for it (like actual hate, not hurtful online comments), and professor Adrián went through GRS on Thailand, and she is still waiting for the government to legalize her name change even after being the first transgender congresswoman of Venezuelan history from 2016 to 2021.

But anyway, there's other reasons to not do it aside from access. Medical procedures have many risks (GRS can have a major complication of the new genitals not working, HRT can make you sterile, anything related to throat surgery is frightening, and I've learned that as an occupational risk for being a teacher, not being transgender...), and some of us have been blessed with natural features that are feminine or masculine (feminine in my case). Each person is an entire world on its own. Being trans is more of a lifestyle related to your gender identity, and undergoing the steps of transitioning, as @Britva415 stated, further the transition.

You're right on the money on your last sentence though.

E: Ugh, typos.

 

[Britva415]

If it makes you feel better

You know what another part of it is?

I would just hate to be perceived as one of those chasers who say in their ads that they want a "passable tranny."

It's so gross, objectifying and ignorant that I want nothing to do with it

This is kind of what I mean about leaving it to trans people to talk about passing, and not projecting anything, myself.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

You know what another part of it is?

I would just hate to be perceived as one of those chasers who say in their ads that they want a "passable tranny."

It's so gross, objectifying and ignorant that I want nothing to do with it

This is kind of what I mean about leaving it to trans people to talk about passing, and not projecting anything, myself.

Yeah, but the medium is the message, and thankfully, this is not the medium of Craigslist

 

[filthytrancendence]

I'm really not trying and hope I am not cis-'splaining something here. I am just interested in trans issues, partly because I feel a kinship with trans people.

@THBGato, you kinda accidentally stumbled into a pretty deep divide within the trans community. The position you're nominally articulating (a hesitance to call someone trans when they don't want to medically transition) is called trans medicalism. This is a bit of a minority position these days, as far as I can tell, and is mostly held by gen X and older trans folks who came out in a very different world than the one we see now.

The reason trans medicalism is divisive within the trans community is that it basically excludes non-binary people from the umbrella. It also excludes people like your character who, for whatever reason, are hesitant to medically transition either in whole or in part. It also could exclude people who want to medically transition but cannot access the care to do so.

Most millennial and younger trans people are not medicalists (again, as far as I can see), for the reasons I just stated and probably many others. That is to say, most trans people would call your character trans, but there are a few, especially older ones, who would adamantly argue the opposite. However younger trans folks have generally seen the immense power to harm that forcefully excluding people from what should be safe spaces can do (see TERFs), and so are equalliy if not more adamant about not excluding enbys.

At some point, you've likely heard the mantra, "Trans women are women, trans men are men, and non-binary people are valid." This is something of a shibboleth within the trans community to signal one is not a medicalist. Because the issue has gotten real heated on occasion. ContraPoints was pretty famously canceled pretty hard because she had a medicalist do a 10 second line read in a video. They were quoting someone about something completely unrelated, but she drew enormous ire just for using this person's voice for 10 seconds in a 2 hour video. I share that just to illustrate how intense the disagreement has gotten.

 

[SamBomb]

Sol, she thinks that Sol is male.

Than trans. That's all there is to it. It's how they think of themselves.

 

[PennyThompson]

This thread is a great example why splitting the category was a bad idea. Not only it has deprived the body swap, forced feminization/masculinization and futanari stories of their natural home; but also introduced new dilemmas for authors of other previously fitting stories that didn’t exist before.

CD should really have been just merged into Fetish, and TG shouldn’t have lost the “gender bending fun” from its description. Alas, the milk is spilled.