Feedback: Truth or Fluff?

[pink_silk_glove]

Do you want truth or fluff?

No in between, no qualifications nor mitigating circumstances.

Truth or Fluff? Pick.

 

[Erozetta]

Truth. Fluff serves no purpose for me.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Truth, which I hope will include some fluff.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm not going to pick because I think it's a false choice and we don't have to think that way.

If somebody likes my story, and tells me so, I think that's great, even if they don't have anything particularly deep to say about why.

I wrote this in another recent thread, and I'll repeat it:

The types of comments I appreciate:

1. Loved your story.
2. Here's what I loved about your story (and why).
3. I didn't like your story/something about your story (and here, with examples, is why).
4. Your story made me come.

The types of comments I don't appreciate:

1. Your story sucks.
2. You suck.

Comments that make me go, "Hmmmm."

1. Your story (especially if it's an incest story) brings back great memories.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I'm not going to pick because I think it's a false choice and we don't have to think that way.

I totally agree but it's just an exercise.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

which I hope will include some fluff.

No qualifications. (waves finger)

 

[PennyThompson]

I know it's just an exercise, but I don't think I totally understand the binary?

Nearly all feedback is personal and subjective, unless it's something mechanical like "Your story contained 42,638 characters," or "You used the word 'back' 75 times," or "You misspelled 'charcuterie,'" which might be either true or false, but is pretty limited in how useful it is as feedback.

Most everything else isn't true or false, it's just an individual's perception and opinion. Some opinions are more articulate or experienced or educated than others, but it's still seen through the lens of their tastes and experiences. A reader could be blunt or they could be gentle, they could be honest or they could be dishonest, but those are very different things!

 

[filthytrancendence]

"You used the word 'back' 75 times,"

I feel personally attacked. When I word-clouded my latest after the first draft today, 'back' was the most used word. And I was able to delete/replace about half of them from the story. How did I never realize until today how much I overuse that word?

Edit: I'm not sure I'm courageous enough to word cloud my old stories. Surely ignorance is bliss.

 

[PennyThompson]

I feel personally attacked. When I word-clouded my latest after the first draft today, 'back' was the most used word. And I was able to delete/replace about half of them from the story. How did I never realize until today how much I overuse that word?

Edit: I'm not sure I'm courageous enough to word cloud my old stories. Surely ignorance is bliss.

The exact thing happened in a thread about word clouds some months ago, "back," was an uncommonly large word for almost everyone

It's a versatile word used in a bunch of different ways, totally not noticeable until you do a word count!

 

[filthytrancendence]

The exact thing happened in a thread about word clouds some months ago, "back," was an uncommonly large word for almost everyone

It's a versatile word used in a bunch of different ways, totally not noticeable until you do a word count!

I feel like I just stumbled upon a secret axiom of writers I didn't realize until today were better than I am.

"There comes a point in every writer's career when they realize how often they overuse the specific word 'back'"

Edit: it went into the signature.

 

[onehitwanda]

2. You suck.

And sometimes you gargle.

 

[TheLobster]

Is this about comments? Then neither. I don't care for the so-called "feedback", whatever it is.

 

[filthytrancendence]

Is this about comments? Then neither. I don't care for the so-called "feedback", whatever it is.

None of us know what it's about. We just started talking here for some reason. Or maybe just I did that.

 

[TheLobster]

None of us know what it's about.

I suspect it's about comments and other kinds of random, unasked feedback -- as opposed to, say, the opinions of your beta readers -- because that's what PSG often harps about.

 

[filthytrancendence]

I suspect it's about comments and other kinds of random, unasked feedback -- as opposed to, say, the opinions of your beta readers -- because that's what PSG often harps about.

Truly, the culture here is worthy of an extended, anthropological study.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I don't think truth belongs as all we ever get as feedback are subjective views. Calling any opinion, no matter how qualified, "the truth" is too much.
I would say that we often get all three kinds of feedback: The fluff, the constructive criticism, and the smear. It's quite useful if you can tell one from the other.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I think we are in danger of getting tangled up. There can be objective truths about subjective opinions.

"I enjoyed your story."
"Your story bored me to tears."

One of these is the truth about how I feel about *your* story. We don't need to make it any more complicated than that.

 

[Actingup]

False dichotomy - you lose. That's my completely subjective truthy opinion.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

All comments have value.
Someone saying, "great story" or "loved it" doesn't help me become a better writer, but it is motivation to keep writing. Which makes you a better writer.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Fluthy.

 

[WCSGarland]

Fluff, because it goes better on fluffernutter sandwiches than the truth does.

 

[filthytrancendence]

I think we are in danger of getting tangled up. There can be objective truths about subjective opinions.

"I enjoyed your story."
"Your story bored me to tears."

One of these is the truth about how I feel about *your* story. We don't need to make it any more complicated than that.

As a certified 84% rope bunny, the danger of getting tangled up is enticing to me.

The fact is, this is a fascinatingly deep topic.

The simplest nugget I can offer from my present point of view is:

The most important skill to cultivate, if your aim is to actually improve at a creative endeavor, is to become the harshest possible critic of your own work, but only in constructive ways.

It's easier to see what's not constructive when somebody else does it to you. That's the value of garbage feedback. It lets you see yourself giving yourself garbage feedback quicker.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

I can't control what other people say about me, even if I have my own preferences. But what I can control is my own feedback.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't think truth belongs as all we ever get as feedback are subjective views. Calling any opinion, no matter how qualified, "the truth" is too much.
I would say that we often get all three kinds of feedback: The fluff, the constructive criticism, and the smear. It's quite useful if you can tell one from the other.

I agree. I also think that regardless of what kind of feedback you get you have the ability to use your judgment to extract from it the "truth," or at least some approximation of the truth.

If readers tell you, "Your story kicked ass and made me come," is that fluff or truth? Maybe both. If they are being honest that it made them come, that's a form of truth. Personally, I LIKE knowing my erotic story made somebody come. That seems pretty truthy to me, whatever their reasons.

That's not the only thing I want to know. I also like knowing what a reader thought about character development, or my prose, or plausibility, etc. But it's nice to know they came, regardless of what they thought about character development.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

If readers tell you, "Your story kicked ass and made me come," is that fluff or truth? Maybe both. If they are being honest that it made them come, that's a form of truth. Personally, I LIKE knowing my erotic story made somebody come. That seems pretty truthy to me, whatever their reasons.

That's not the only thing I want to know. I also like knowing what a reader thought about character development, or my prose, or plausibility, etc. But it's nice to know they came, regardless of what they thought about character development.

Agreed. I believe PSG meant to ask this mostly in the sense of the comments that address the quality of our writing, so I focused on that aspect only. But you are completely right. Whether or not we managed to arouse the reader and make them come is also an important aspect of smut.

It's interesting to point out that I've seen some stories that contain fine prose and character development, yet fail to truly arouse, even if they contain sex scenes. That has to count for something in an erotic story.