A place to discuss the craft of writing: tricks, philosophies, styles

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Here's the problem: The story Sinclair wanted to tell with this chapter... had nothing to do with this. This chapter's story was about how absolutely unremarkable of a woman Karen is, his next client. So this paragraph's lovely story doesn't fit, and the chapter's story is somewhat muddled as you figure out what to do with the unresolved story between Mr Detective and Young Assistant (eventually throwing it out, as Simon inferred).

I can see where you're going with this. I viewed the set up between the Sam Spade-style PI and the assistant to be the garnish around the paragraph about Karen.

The focus on that paragraph is how average Karen is and (a bit verbosely, I know) to set up the joke in the conversation.

It's very easy to say "She looked like an average woman," but that alone conveys almost nothing - it's completely subjective and relies on the readers understanding of what average looks like. And the funny thing is you can put two people side by side who most folks would characterize as "average" and they could look nothing like each other.

Karen could be average ... for an NFL linebacker ... for a French underwear model ... for a soccer mom ... for a NASA astronaut. None of those body types would look anything like each other, but would still fit the definition of average.

The description makes it clear in what way she is average. So the explanation there goes to explain the statement and paint a more vivid picture in the reader's mind as to what the MC meant when he said 'average.' And, of course, it sets up the joke.

I still like my meal analogy - the story is the meat, but you need some detail to spice it up, otherwise you're just eating boiled chicken, and boiled chicken is about as boring a food as you can get that isn't water.

That's what I was trying to do with my equally hasty example, lol.

 

[MisterWindDong]

What chapter? You can't assume the rest of a chapter from an isolated scene. And even if you did, there's nothing wrong with an immersive sub scene in a broader chapter. Disagree 100%, even more than 100 if I could.

I'm calling his example he posted a 'chapter' strictly as a collection of paragraphs. As a storytelling exercise, I'm trying to show how 'story' exists at the sentence, paragraph, and chapter level, and how detail either feeds the story, or starves it.

Sinclair literally gave us the passage he was adding detail too, I'm not making assumptions. Its right here:
There was a knock on the door to my office. I gave a noncommittal grunt. The door opened, and my assistant let a woman, my next case I assumed, into my office. She was completely average looking. She stepped over to my desk, put out her hand and introduced herself.

"My name is Karen," she said.

"Of course it is," I replied.

These are our bare facts. The entire passage is so barren of detail, we have only 2 instances that tell any kind of 'story':
She was completely average looking.
and
"My name is Karen," she said.
"Of course it is," I replied.

Average looking Karen and Snarky Detective. That's the entire story.

Correctly, Sinclair recognized that this is incredibly bland, since that was his entire point. And wrote a great re-telling of the facts in a way that was much more fun and exciting to read.

My whole exercise and breakdown was that you can correct and improve things as a writer that don't necessarily improve the work as a story. I prefaced my critique of Sinclair and DJ with the fact that my critique wasn't actually pointed at them because they were doing a LITERAL WRITING EXERCISE. They were not rewriting trying to tell the best story, but to demonstrate how various literary and writing technique could make a very bland pile of facts much more fun to read. They both knocked it out of the park.

That said, their writing exercises demonstrated how easy it is to lose focus on story when you make edits without overall story in mind. (reminder: that wasn't their point) which is an easy trap to fall into when you are doing revisions and edits on drafted stories.

The opening paragraph of Sinclair's detailed version told a story about a gruff detective who drank and smoke, and his young assistant who, despite having reasons to run, has stayed by his side. That was WAY MORE INTERESTING than before, but not related to story of Average looking Karen and Snarky Detective.

He was fixing a problem as a writer, but introducing story threads that didn't exist before. Once again, that's fine if you are doing it on purpose. It's less fine if you are doing edits / revisions on your work to make something more appealing. I wanted to show how hard that is to avoid even if you are a very talented writer if you don't start with a strong story. Both of these guys are great writers.

 

[alohadave]

But for the first time I've lost pretty much all interest in it.

It happens. Not everything you write needs to have a deep emotional connection. Like fast food, it scratched an itch and you move on.

 

[MisterWindDong]

I can see where you're going with this. I viewed the set up between the Sam Spade-style PI and the assistant to be the garnish around the paragraph about Karen.

The focus on that paragraph is how average Karen is and (a bit verbosely, I know) to set up the joke in the conversation.

It's very easy to say "She looked like an average woman," but that alone conveys almost nothing - it's completely subjective and relies on the readers understanding of what average looks like. And the funny thing is you can put two people side by side who most folks would characterize as "average" and they could look nothing like each other.

Karen could be average ... for an NFL linebacker ... for a French underwear model ... for a soccer mom ... for a NASA astronaut. None of those body types would look anything like each other, but would still fit the definition of average.

The description makes it clear in what way she is average. So the explanation there goes to explain the statement and paint a more vivid picture in the reader's mind as to what the MC meant when he said 'average.' And, of course, it sets up the joke.

I still like my meal analogy - the story is the meat, but you need some detail to spice it up, otherwise you're just eating boiled chicken, and boiled chicken is about as boring a food as you can get that isn't water.

That's what I was trying to do with my equally hasty example, lol.

I touched on a lot of this in my response to the guy who got a bit upset, but I actually am in full agreement with your takes and your decision making. I also think you did a fantastic job accomplishing what you were trying to do.

To lean into your meat analogy, I wanted to point out that not only did your 'just the facts' version have no seasoning, it was mystery meat. Its damn near impossible to know how the best combo of seasonings if you don't know what it is your seasoning. If you are a REALLY good chef, you might be able to 'make it work', but eventually you'll take that bite where you can tell something is a little 'off'.

If good writing is the spice, flavor, and garnish that makes a bland dish worth eating, good storytelling knowing how to cook the meat long enough that its edible. Undercooked, you get sick. Burnt? Can't even swallow it.

The difference is: a well cooked chicken, even bare, you can still eat. And man, If you starving, that shit becomes the best tasting meal you've had. Everyone in a specific fetish that's niche enough will know the feeling. Some Ol faithful story from like 5 years ago that's basic as shit but just hits. It gets boring quick, but when you are starving, you always come back.

That's why I focus on story so much in my personal writing style; it 'has' to be cooked enough before your writing ability even matters.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Average looking Karen and Snarky Detective. That's the entire story.

No, it's not. It's just an excerpt. Obviously there is much more to this story. We will find that as we read on. Karen is in need of a PI. The PI is reluctant on sight. There's a ton more already there. This is absolutely promising to go somewhere.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

Damn it, did I just invent another plot bunny?

Now Karen and the Pi need a story for the Mickie Spillane event, lol.

 

[MisterWindDong]

No, it's not. It's just an excerpt. Obviously there is much more to this story. We will find that as we read on. Karen is in need of a PI. The PI is reluctant on sight. There's a ton more already there. This is absolutely promising to go somewhere.

While I appreciate your attempts to defend Sinclair's work, you have twice now entirely missed the point that I am not critiquing the story.

I am proposing, in this 'craft of writing tricks philosophies styles' thread, my philosophy that all writing succeeds through a marriage of Writing Ability (grammar, sentence structure, cadence, tense, etc.) and Storytelling (Message, purpose, content, pacing, drama, conflict, resolution), with Storytelling being the most important as it is the 'meat' of your work. Too much or too little of either can dilute or cloud the other.

This is especially apparent when you are doing revisions and drafts. Sinclair, by happenstance, offered an extremely reduced version of a short chapter, then re wrote the same chapter in a way actually reflecting of his style, saying: 'this is the same story', in order to demonstrate his philosophy on detail and how it enriched his scenes.

I, extremely unfairly (as he would never have seriously written that reduced version in a million years), pointed out that if we hold the artificially reduced version to be the 'intended story', any new story hooks that get introduced while re-writing (to make it more fun and enjoyable per his style) is destructive to the pre-existing story. This is not a critique of his actual content, but of the fragility of Story at the pursuit of Better Writing, especially when a story is underveloped.

That's all. There's no critique of the actual story Sinclair is telling. If that doesn't make sense, i'm all outta ideas and you can call me a big ol meanie head

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I am proposing, in this 'craft of writing tricks philosophies styles' thread, my philosophy that all writing succeeds through a marriage of Writing Ability (grammar, sentence structure, cadence, tense, etc.) and Storytelling (Message, purpose, content, pacing, drama, conflict, resolution), with Storytelling being the most important as it is the 'meat' of your work. Too much or too little of either can dilute or cloud the other.

Your critique fails to establish that argument in any way. Perhaps that's why I 'missed the point' (hint: no, I didn't miss anything). You are assuming that this snippet dilutes the remaining story that you are assuming might or will happen, yet you have no idea where the story is going. You seem to have a preconceived notion of the best style that fits every story ever and you are convinced that this snippet is going to tread exactly to the wrong place even before it goes anywhere. Stop trying to write this for the writer. Chillax and just read.

I, extremely unfairly (as he would never have seriously written that reduced version in a million years), pointed out that if we hold the artificially reduced version to be the 'intended story', any new story hooks that get introduced while re-writing (to make it more fun and enjoyable per his style) is destructive to the pre-existing story. This is not a critique of his actual content, but of the fragility of Story at the pursuit of Better Writing, especially when a story is underveloped.

You're waaay overthinking this.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

The thing is, I think both snippets work just fine, depending on how you write.

The sparse, barebones approach has been advocated in here, and it has plenty of support amongst writers of greater renown than most of us. Hemingway, as we all like to remind each other, wrote in that sparse style. Some folks advocate for that, because it gets to the point quickly and it allows the reader to fill in the gaps that aren't truly necessary to move the story on.

In both snippets, the story is the same: PI is in his office. Average looking woman comes in. She's his next potential client. She introduces herself. He makes a joke.

The first one gets that point across and advances the story. You get a little taste of what's to come and a bit of insight into the PI's character - he's a smartass, like every PI you read in Mickie Spillane or Raymond Chandler. You don't get the flavor for the assistant, and you get to fill in the blanks in your own head about what average Karen looks like.

The second one does the same thing, but it adds more flavor to the taste. You get a bit more backstory on the PI, you get a bit of backstory on the assistant, and you get a wealth of detail that describes exactly how average Karen is, and in doing so you get a deeper insight into the observation skills - and smartass attitude - of the MC. And then you get the same joke.

In the end, both snippets tell the same general tale. The first one gets from point A to B in the shortest possible fashion. The second takes the scenic route, but they both end up in the same place from a story perspective. At least in my head.

I think MWD would probably disagree with that, as he's noted there's far more story in the second one than the first, but I think to PSG's point, don't overthink it too much, lol.

In the end, this is just me trying to justify the fact that all my stories somehow end up being 15k words or more.

 

[MisterWindDong]

The thing is, I think both snippets work just fine, depending on how you write.

The sparse, barebones approach has been advocated in here, and it has plenty of support amongst writers of greater renown than most of us. Hemingway, as we all like to remind each other, wrote in that sparse style. Some folks advocate for that, because it gets to the point quickly and it allows the reader to fill in the gaps that aren't truly necessary to move the story on.

In both snippets, the story is the same: PI is in his office. Average looking woman comes in. She's his next potential client. She introduces herself. He makes a joke.

The first one gets that point across and advances the story. You get a little taste of what's to come and a bit of insight into the PI's character - he's a smartass, like every PI you read in Mickie Spillane or Raymond Chandler. You don't get the flavor for the assistant, and you get to fill in the blanks in your own head about what average Karen looks like.

The second one does the same thing, but it adds more flavor to the taste. You get a bit more backstory on the PI, you get a bit of backstory on the assistant, and you get a wealth of detail that describes exactly how average Karen is, and in doing so you get a deeper insight into the observation skills - and smartass attitude - of the MC. And then you get the same joke.

In the end, both snippets tell the same general tale. The first one gets from point A to B in the shortest possible fashion. The second takes the scenic route, but they both end up in the same place from a story perspective. At least in my head.

I think MWD would probably disagree with that, as he's noted there's far more story in the second one than the first, but I think to PSG's point, don't overthink it too much, lol.

In the end, this is just me trying to justify the fact that all my stories somehow end up being 15k words or more.

I appreciate your attitude about it, I didn't mean to pull your work specifically into the conversation as much about my own thoughts / philosophy. I apologize for that my guy.

I'd argue less that I'm overthinking and more that I was trying to say too many things at once myself, ironically diluting my own points in the exact same fashion I was warning against. So it goes between story and off the cuff conversation

I could have boiled my whole thing down to 'be intentional with your story'; and given my own examples. My version of an ideal story isn't necessarily the shortest one, but the one you meant to tell. So that's where I start whenever I draft something new

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

I appreciate your attitude about it, I didn't mean to pull your work specifically into the conversation as much about my own thoughts / philosophy. I apologize for that my guy.

I'd argue less that I'm overthinking and more that I was trying to say too many things at once myself, ironically diluting my own points in the exact same fashion I was warning against. So it goes between story and off the cuff conversation

I could have boiled my whole thing down to 'be intentional with your story'; and given my own examples. My version of an ideal story isn't necessarily the shortest one, but the one you meant to tell. So that's where I start whenever I draft something new

No need to apologize at all - this was fun. This is exactly what I hoped this thread would be. A bunch of authors arguing with each other over style and philosophy. It made for great procrastination, but I did manage to finish another 3k words and this 4th chapter I've been working on, so thanks, lol.

 

[8letters]

Last week I wrote a story, Tammy, Jessica, Yuliya (4.7k words, rated 4.72 in Lesbian). It took less than twelve hours, from getting the idea to submitting the story for publication. I enjoyed writing it, and it's getting plenty of votes and views. Several very positive comments as well.

But for the first time I've lost pretty much all interest in it. Normally, I love all my stories. I love to reread them, for the sex and the emotion and the clever banter. I'm probably my own biggest fan.

This one? It might as well be someone else's story. I don't feel any connection to the narrator, even though I channelled quite a bit of my own past into her feelings. The sex? I reread the story this afternoon, and nothing.

After two years of writing, and dozens of stories - and Writing Exercise snippets as well - it's an odd feeling.

I don't reread any of my stories. Once I submit the final draft, they are my children. I like watching them do well, but I have no sexual interest in them. I've put them on a pedestal, and I don't want the reality of the story to intrude on how highly I think of them.

 

[Duleigh]

I'd like this to be a thread where we can share our tips and tricks, our philosophies, our styles, our likes and dislikes, our frustrations and our triumphs.

I guess my philosophy of writing is "Get it on the paper!" A writer can plan, plot, and graph a story all they want but until they get it on the paper (or the screen) it's just disjointed ideas. Get it on the screen no matter how minimal, then go back over it and over it massaging and editing. Then, just as long as the five main points are there, everything else is frosting on the cake

• Characters
• Setting
• Plot
• Conflict
• Resolution

I find myself stuck in a certain genre, a certain setting, a certain plot using similar characters over and over - but that's what sells. It's what our publishers like to see. It's what our readers expect. But we're artists and need to expand our horizons. We need to explore, then when we come back to 'old reliable' we can do a much better job of it. I HATE writing in the second person perspective, but it keeps me concentrated on the story. I don't like writing in the first person either because that locks me into a single perspective. Third person is much freer. BUT when the Big Badguy in my story starts monologuing, (they always do) he's going to do it in first person. When the Detective gives the unwitting victim instructions on how to set the trap to catch Big Badguy he's going to do it in second person. So I might as well stay in practice. I also try to find new words and put a new (to me) word in each story.

Likes: Writing on a PC with a gamer keyboard. They seem to hold up better.
Dislikes: Writing on a tablet or phone
Frustrations: My website moved my books to a new website, now I have to reestablish a reputation and update a zillion links
Triumphs: Came in 5th in the 2024 Clitoride awards! Just being nominated is huge honor but I came in right behind Lubrican, a writer I've followed for decades. (The clitoride awards go back to 94 and are like the Hugo awards for erotica)

 

[8letters]

(I stumbled across this in my files. I don't remember posting it, and it seems a good fit here)

A common comment I get on my stories is that my sex scenes are hot. This is what I do to write hot sex scenes. YMMV

Make the reader want the couple to have sex before you start the sex scene
In my opinion, the more the reader wants the couple to have sex, the more likely they are to find the sex scene hot. I typically do a long build up by the end of which hopefully the reader likes the two main characters and wants for them to get together.

Make the sex scene different
I'd guess that most LitE readers have read two people having sex on a bed over a hundred times. Make the sex scene stand out by having something different about it. Maybe they're having sex outside or in the back of a mini-van. Maybe they're having to be quiet so they won't be overheard. In one of my stories, the couple watches Disney's "The Beauty and The Beast" while taking breaks to have sex. Don't get too weird as that will turn off the reader.

Get the reader into the room
What does the room look like? What does the furniture look like? What are the two people wearing when they start making out? The more the reader can picture, the more immersive (and hotter) the experience.

Make the sex scene long
It takes a while to build up the heat. The longer the sex scene is, generally the hotter it is.

Go slow
* Describe the foreplay
* Have the characters talk
* Describe what they are feeling, both emotionally and physically
* Describe the action in terms of all five senses

Have an emotional climax to the sex scene
Sex is a bonding experience in my stories, and my sex scenes have emotional build ups during them. As the couple moves through foreplay, oral sex and coitus, so should they move forward in how much they love and are committed to each other. The sex scene should provide emotional satisfaction in addition to providing enough erotic stimulation for the reader to cum.

Set up important lines/situations that you want to use in the sex scene
A line or an action will have more punch if you can set up how they resonate with a character beforehand. For example, if the female character says earlier in the story she wants to be more in charge in her next relationship, then them having sex with her on top will have more emotional punch then if there’s no set up.

Use porn videos as a resource
I’ll have an idea for a sex scene, and then go looking for porn videos that are similar. It’s a lot easier for me to transcribe a porn video than it is to make up the action from scratch.

An example of how I do it
I’m just finished the first draft of a story where the POV is from Jackson and the FMC is Penny
* I’ve been building up the romantic tension between them the whole story, and the final scene is time for them to succumb to their desires.
* To make the final sex scene a little different, it happens on a couch
* I knew before I started writing the story that I wanted the final sex scene to be on a couch so I’ve mentioned the couch several times in the story and it’s emotionally significant to both Jackson and Penny.
* The sex scene starts when Penny moves so she’s standing right next to Jackson and looking up at him. Jackson has been fighting his attraction to Penny, and Penny being so close triggers another fight for him. 415 words
* They kiss. I pulled up some lesbian kissing porn videos until I found one that kind of had what I thought the first two kisses would be like. I wrote those kisses, describing Penny and Jackson’s actions as well as what Jackson felt physically and emotionally. 134 words
* Jackson pauses to think about what he’s doing. He wrestles with his emotions, advancing in how he thinks about Penny. Penny says a line she had said much earlier in the story in a very different context. 151 words
* They resume kissing. Again, a lot of what I wrote was describing what I saw in lesbian kissing porn videos. 68 words
* Jackson thinks about what’s going on. He decides he wants to do more than kiss. 50 words
* Jackson moves to the next “base”, feeling up Penny’s butt while kissing. 496 words
* Jackson pauses to think about what he’s feeling. 72 words
* Jackson moves to the next “base”, feeling up Penny’s tits while kissing. 82 words
* Jackson pauses again to think about what he’s feeling. 87 words
* More action, this time with some dialogue. 144 words
* Penny and Jackson talk, eventually both saying “I love you”. The emotional journey takes a huge advance. 85 words
* They move to another “base” when Penny gets naked and Jackson begins rubbing her clit. 365 words
* They talk, pushing their commitment forward some more. Penny says Jackson is her future now. They quote true love lines to each other from “The Princess Bride”, which is Jackson’s favorite movie and that they watched earlier in the story. 86 words
* Jackson makes Penny cum. 87 words
* Some banter between Penny and Jackson, pushing forward the commitment even more. 112 words
* They start fucking. 340 words
* More banter which pushes the commitment forward some more. 48 words
* The rest of the fuck. 345 words
* Post-sex conversation that emphasizes they love each other and are going to be living together. 141 words

All told, 3308 words, which is almost a full Literotica page. As the sex moved through the bases, so did the emotional journey move forward.

 

[iwatchus]

Use porn videos as a resource
I’ll have an idea for a sex scene, and then go looking for porn videos that are similar. It’s a lot easier for me to transcribe a porn video than it is to make up the action from scratch.

I have never used porn as an idea source, but I do like it as a way to see what positions look like. Especially positions I have never personally tried.

 

[Husky_Embrace]

There's already a lot of pages, but I do want to give some beginners some things they can try. As someone mentioned, things we write here work for us, but not necessarily for others. Mix and match for something you like.

1. Write slow.
When I started writing I had a clear idea what I wanted. So I wrote directly for that goal. My writing simply isn't good enough for that. The characters were bland, the plot was trash and I didn't like anything I put to paper. When I started writing on my mobile I was forced to slow to as fast as I can on the in screen keyboard. Sloooow. That gave me time to see what I was writing, and think about changing it.

2. Let the characters grow
As stated above, I have goals with my stories. Writing slow gives me the opportunity to think about what is happening, and why. I imagine some rudimentary idea what the character is and their relation to some elements in the story. Do they like the MC, what is their opinion about sex, or if they like the McGuffin of the story. Just high level stuff.

When I write I'll do another pass. They interact with other characters or the environment, and writing slow gives the opportunity to think how they would react. This way they grow as you write. Sometimes it means for me that I can't add some things I previously wanted, but that is a small price to pay for a more realistic character. I'm reminded of George RR Martin, who envisioned Jamie as an evil prince charming. He allowed him to grow by imagining why he was so bitter and cruel.

3. Add a theme
People come for more than just a sex story. Something needs to speak to them. It can be something incredibly simple, like the taboo of incest. It can be complex like the loss of a loved one and how they get back into the saddle.

4. Add feelings
Especially during sex feelings are important. Males are more likely to be satisfied with a description that a pussy is shot full of cum. Even so it takes little effort to add the feeling of one or more involved parties. Having a guy protest the sex all along, and then saying "he saw the cum seep out, and smiled," tells us so much about the emotional state with just two added words. The act itself is often meaningless without knowing how it affects the characters.

5 Quality control
I'm no saint of writing. My last two stories one was rejected for spelling and grammar, the other passed but someone mentioned it.

And it could have been a whole lot worse.

Reread everything you do. I am often done with the story at that point. Even so I read it again. Do things still make sense? How's my grammar? My spelling? I remove an absolute ton of errors. Many of my stories are unpublished because of this. I notice too much wring with it and decide to fix the issues before I publish. Then I do not finish them fir a long time. Even so, it is important to not push out stuff where there's actual numbers instead of letters.

6. Write for yourself
Do I want the community of Lot to recognise and celebrate my work, ushering me to publish it and sell the story for real? To see a story rise to the "hot" category, or see a new positive comment? Of course I do! I wish to belong to a community that hopefully appreciates me.

Even so I write the stories for myself. It is my fantasy that is committed to paper. I've read few stories here that hit me as good as one of my own stories. Mine aren't better written or have a better plot, yet I like them more. I write so I can enjoy it first. That ensures the best quality, as you're interested in it. Motivated to keep going.

When you're done you can always change things to hope it'll do better on this site. Do keep the part you wrote for yourself, so you can read your own fantasy back later.

 

[Husky_Embrace]

I have never used porn as an idea source, but I do like it as a way to see what positions look like. Especially positions I have never personally tried.

Porn destroys my creativity. It is like my brain shuts down to only consume, not process. Not looking at porn fuels my frustration, which I can let out via fantasy. That translates to stories, should I try to write them down.

 

[Duleigh]

I have never used porn as an idea source, but I do like it as a way to see what positions look like. Especially positions I have never personally tried.

I am a bit the same way. I write romantic stories (hey - it sells!) and porn is NOT romantic. I have seen one series that could be considered romantic but it was all about blowjobs only, and became quite boring after a while. To do a sex scene I write a quick version of the scene I want, sometimes based around experience, then come back later and add more detail, then repeat the process several times adding the details and caring dialogue. Of course I do that same process with other scenes. I'm currently on the second pass through a scene where our hero is giving a couple of five-year-old swimming lessons. It's only important to the story because it elevates his fiancée's respect for him.

 

[SkyBubble]

I have a fair number of first person narratives and I tend to use a fair amount of dialogue to move the story. As much as I enjoy reading him, I'm not Dickens with adjectives all over the place.

 

[Belegon]

I could talk for days about this stuff. I did my BA in Creative Writing and English Lit and my MA in Creative Writing and I've been running workshops for local writers for about 15 years. Craft stuff is my bread and butter and what I really love talking about.

One book that's been completely invaluable to me over the years is Donald Maass' The Emotional Craft of Fiction. There aren't many craft books that I think are valuable to even slightly experienced writers because so much of it is either covering complete basics or else is very specific to that one author's practice, but this is one of those books where I could feel myself improving as a writer just by reading it, let alone putting the advice into practice. It's one of those books that I pick up from time to time and just turn to a random chapter, and then grab a current WIP and see if I can apply something to it. The internal life of characters was always one of the weaker parts of my writing and I credit this book almost entirely to helping me improve at that aspect of the craft.

I just went to amazon and ordered it.Your recommendation was enough to spend that amount on something if it helps even a little bit.

 

[Lathanar1]

I think one of my largest (out of many, many) problems with my writing is I am a huge fan of the long, epic, immersive world style story. When I started last year, I ran straight into the brick wall of 'lore dump'. It took me quite some time to figure out how to use multiple characters, or even the environment, to break up the lore into segments by having the exposition turn into a conversation.

I've also struggled with the all mighty comma. There are a lot of stories here on Lit where I've glazed over punctuation issues by adding the breaks in my head, but sometimes excessive commas can ruin even that.

 

[Belegon]

Things I've noticed about myself.

1)I have a habit of starting with a line of dialogue. No idea how I developed this habit, although...

2)My writing tends to be dialogue heavy. I almost never describe something in prose if I can do it in dialogue.

3)I seem to have fallen into a pattern with sex scenes that only feature one couple. It's almost always...man goes down on woman/woman on man/vaginal sex. In that order. Then I noticed that this is an order I tend to follow myself. So at least I know the "why." But I am going to try and vary things, at least in my stories. In the real world stuff, I've been on a disturbingly long break and we'll just see what happens.

4)After years of using a lot of real life references in my stories, they seem to have gotten more difficult to use. I'm not sure about the "WHY" on this one. I certainly have not run short on experiences that could be translated into stories, or even on people translations.I usually change enough detail to give me some differentiation between what really happened and what's portrayed in the story. Name changes, perhaps body style changes, location changes. I wrote the last story I posted on almost the exact opposite of that. It was a scene I would never allow to happen and the female protagonist was not based on any of my exes or even a one night stand. Part of that was I was asked specifically for the name and hair color to be used in a story.

5) I have three words I am far too in love with and I usually do word searches to try and remove them. The 3 words are that, really, & actually.

 

[HordHolm]

Things I've noticed about myself.

1)I have a habit of starting with a line of dialogue. No idea how I developed this habit, although...

2)My writing tends to be dialogue heavy. I almost never describe something in prose if I can do it in dialogue.

3)I seem to have fallen into a pattern with sex scenes that only feature one couple. It's almost always...man goes down on woman/woman on man/vaginal sex. In that order. Then I noticed that this is an order I tend to follow myself. So at least I know the "why." But I am going to try and vary things, at least in my stories. In the real world stuff, I've been on a disturbingly long break and we'll just see what happens.

4)After years of using a lot of real life references in my stories, they seem to have gotten more difficult to use. I'm not sure about the "WHY" on this one. I certainly have not run short on experiences that could be translated into stories, or even on people translations.I usually change enough detail to give me some differentiation between what really happened and what's portrayed in the story. Name changes, perhaps body style changes, location changes. I wrote the last story I posted on almost the exact opposite of that. It was a scene I would never allow to happen and the female protagonist was not based on any of my exes or even a one night stand. Part of that was I was asked specifically for the name and hair color to be used in a story.

5) I have three words I am far too in love with and I usually do word searches to try and remove them. The 3 words are that, really, & actually.

Maybe do some people watching, and some speculating based on the people you are watching. I find coffee shops are most excellent locations for getting inspiration.

 

[StillStunned]

About the rule of "start as close to the inciting incident as possible":

Orson Scott Card mentions in "How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy" that he'd see manuscripts or stories by aspiring writers that have a hundred pages of story, and then a line like "And that was the day his life changed forever." Essentially, he says, everything that goes before that line is unnecessary.

Of course that's a slight exaggeration. You do need *some* background, after all. And sometimes setting the scene is more important than plunging right into the story. But it's a good principle to bear in mind, and only break if that's a deliberate choice.

One thing I'd like to add, based on my own reading and writing, is that the shorter the story, the closer to the inciting incident you should begin. With a long story, with character development and a setting that plays an active role, introducing the reader to the story is probably a good way to set the tone. But for a short one-scene stroker? Nah.

For example, yesterday I had another visit from the Plot Bunny - in the middle of the day, dammit, when I was supposed to be working - with the kernel of a scene. The narrator on a beach, watching a woman behind him in the reflection of his phone's screen.

I could have started with this:

"It was a lovely day. Not having any work on, I gathered a few things and headed to the seaside. A small, secluded beach, cut off from the rest of the world by rocks and dunes. The roads were quiet, and there weren't any cars in the car park. Feeling very pleased with myself, I took my pack from the seat beside me and walked the few hundred yards to where I heard the waves rustling on the gentle breeze."

Followed by the narrator spreading out his towel, lying down, rubbing himself with sunblock, etcetera.

Instead, I began with this:

"She was lying behind me on the beach. A goodlooking woman in her early forties, chestnut hair hanging loose, large sunglasses over her eyes, the curves of maturity filling out her pale green bikini.

"I’d heard her arrive half an hour or so after me, on this tiny stretch of sand cut off from the world and the wind by rocks and dunes. I glanced round and nodded a polite greeting. Slightly disappointed to have to share my bit of heaven. Not too upset because, well, she looked good in her bikini.

"She smiled back and laid out her towel, behind me and a little to one side. A large shoulder tote yielded sunblock, a large bottle of water and some magazines. A wide-brimmed straw hat emerged as well, which she laid to one side. The sun was only midway up the sky, but later it would turn very hot."

Because all that other stuff is unnecessary. All we need to know for this story (and yes, it's one of those "Don't read my story if you're expecting plot or character development" stories) is that he's lying on the beach, and so is she. How they got there is unimportant. All that matters is that they're there.

Orson Scott Card might be a horrendous bigot, but he knows his craft.

 

[TheLobster]

One thing I'd like to add, based on my own reading and writing, is that the shorter the story, the closer to the inciting incident you should begin.

So, conversely, the longer I ramble on at the beginning of the story, the stronger a license it gives me to ramble even more throughout the rest of it?…

Gosh, that’s so validating! Listen to this man, he clearly knows what’s up.