Obsession ?

[Jake0126]

I try not to be political, but am seeing more and more friends and colleagues fall into an us vs them obsession.
To a point where it’s bleeding over into arguments that aren’t politically relevant.

My question is

Do we still have a middle in the US or is every issue now us vs them?

And if that’s the case how do we survive as a nation?

 

[ll74]

We do have a moderate base in this country.

 

[Lazaran]

I try not to be political, but am seeing more and more friends and colleagues fall into an us vs them obsession.
To a point where it’s bleeding over into arguments that aren’t politically relevant.

My question is

Do we still have a middle in the US or is every issue now us vs them?

And if that’s the case how do we survive as a nation?

If you support MAGA (fascism, racism, bigotry, and misogyny), then you SHOULD expect a fight, no???



If you oppose MAGA (fascism, racism, bigotry, and misogyny), then you SHOULD fight, no???



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Baztrachian]

Do we still have a middle in the US or is every issue now us vs them?

We still have a middle. I'd say about 20% of the people don't vote according to ideology but according to their personal values...whatever those may be.

I try not to be political, but am seeing more and more friends and colleagues fall into an us vs them obsession.
To a point where it’s bleeding over into arguments that aren’t politically relevant.

Ditto. I do have political opinions but when I post elsewhere about something that isn't political I notice that I get vocal opposition simply because someone objects to my political opinions.

Case in point, I did a review of Ragged Point on the Big Sur coast and one of the trolls on another site came at me with some bullshit about how Ragged Point must be "a fucking MAGA fortress for you fuking (sp) Nazis!"

Well, okay.

 

[Baztrachian]

If you support MAGA (fascism, racism, bigotry, and misogyny), then you SHOULD expect a fight, no???

This is why you people are losing the moderates we're talking about.

 

[Lazaran]

This is why you people are losing the moderates we're talking about.

I’m perfectly fine with “losing” racists, fascists, bigots, and misogynists.





We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Bn2f]

This is why you people are losing the moderates we're talking about.

Who did you vote for and why?

 

[Politruk]

Do we still have a middle in the US or is every issue now us vs them?

Many Americans are simply indifferent. Apathetic. Apolitical.

And there are others who have centrist, moderate political views.

 

[Baztrachian]

Who did you vote for and why?

In 2024 I voted for Trump hoping that he'd finally deliver on his promise to shake up Federal government.

Now here's a sekret: In 2016 if the election had been Bernie vs. one of the 19 limp dick Republicrats who ran against Trump I was planning to vote for Bernie.

Why? Because Bernie promised to shake up Federal government.

 

[Baztrachian]

I’m perfectly fine with “losing” racists, fascists, bigots, and misogynists.

No, you said something else...

If you support MAGA (fascism, racism, bigotry, and misogyny), then you SHOULD expect a fight, no???

You're fine with committing violence against people you disagree with. This is where you folks are losing the middle.

 

[Politruk]

In 2024 I voted for Trump hoping that he'd finally deliver on his promise to shake up Federal government.

Now here's a sekret: In 2016 if the election had been Bernie vs. one of the 19 limp dick Republicrats who ran against Trump I was planning to vote for Bernie.

Why? Because Bernie promised to shake up Federal government.

You should have listened closer. Bernie promised to shake up society. The economic order. The distribution of wealth and power. That goes way beyond what DOGE is doing to the federal government with its chainsaw and, unlike what DOGE is doing, is actually necessary.

 

[Lazaran]

No, you said something else...

Well, yeah. Because in the statement of mine you “quoted”, I was responding to your ignorant narrative.

You're fine with committing violence against people you disagree with. This is where you folks are losing the middle.

NOWHERE in my statement was “committing violence against people you disagree with” even suggested.



MAGAts are so fucking stupid & dishonest.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Baztrachian]

You should have listened closer. Bernie promised to shake up society. The economic order. The distribution of wealth and power. That goes way beyond what DOGE is doing to the federal government with its chainsaw and, unlike what DOGE is doing, is actually necessary.

Here's what Bernie said and I'll excerpt a couple things that sound just like DOGE:

https://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Government_Reform.htm

SANDERS: We have also got to take a look at the waste and inefficiencies in the Department of Defense, which is the one major agency of government that has not been able to be audited. I have the feeling you're going to find a lot of cost overruns there and a lot of waste and duplicative activities.

Senator Bernie Sanders demands that the United States' elected government represent us, its people. He observes a disturbing trend where the average citizen is disenfranchised, and fears that we are losing what makes America great--our system of democracy. Bernie has said: "We are moving rapidly away from our democratic heritage into an oligarchic form of society where today we are experiencing a government of the billionaires, by the billionaires, and for the billionaires."

Bernie wanted an audit of the Federal Reserve and he wanted their power broken up. So do I. So does Trump.

Bernie wanted competitive bidding in government contracts. So does Trump. So does DOGE.

Yes, a lot of what he wanted I opposed. But the key things he wanted I wanted too. Trump supports those things and is actually doing many of them. Sadly Bernie is opposing those measures simply because Trump is pushing them. He sold out his principles because of partisanship.

 

[Politruk]

Sadly Bernie is opposing those measures simply because Trump is pushing them. He sold out his principles because of partisanship.

Lie.

 

[Bn2f]

I try not to be political, but am seeing more and more friends and colleagues fall into an us vs them obsession.
And if that’s the case how do we survive as a nation?

I'm linking you in hopes that you are still paying attention to the thread you created.

In 2024 I voted for Trump hoping that he'd finally deliver on his promise to shake up Federal government.

Now here's a sekret: In 2016 if the election had been Bernie vs. one of the 19 limp dick Republicrats who ran against Trump I was planning to vote for Bernie.

Why? Because Bernie promised to shake up Federal government.

So it is safe to assume by your answer that you voted for trump in '16, '20, AND '24, correct?
And in '16 you were going to back Bernie Sanders, correct?

Jake? I am trying my best here to be courteous and polite, but this member is NOT a true representative of the political middle ground here in America.
He is, at best, naive. One simply does not listen to the message of taxation and access to healthcare Sanders presented in '16, and still holds steadfast to this very day, and then turns and decides to vote for the embodiment of capitalism in trump. This member simply was not listening. His desire in "shaking up the federal government" speaks more to an anarchist style of belief than anything close to being moderate.

 

[Baztrachian]

NOWHERE in my statement was “committing violence against people you disagree with” even suggested.

Right. Just like this deranged person wasn't promoting violence...

 

[Lazaran]

In 2024 I voted for Trump hoping that he'd finally deliver on his promise to shake up Federal government.

Now here's a sekret: In 2016 if the election had been Bernie vs. one of the 19 limp dick Republicrats who ran against Trump I was planning to vote for Bernie.

Why? Because Bernie promised to shake up Federal government.

Yeah, and Bernie’s promise to “shake up the federal government” would have likely resulted in an economic and geopolitical meltdown similar (though likely not nearly as catastrophic) to DonOld’s current clusterfuck.

That ^ is partially why I voted for Hillary in the 2016 primary. I also voted for Hillary because she presented as more informed, qualified, stable, and balanced Hillary would have taken the handoff from President Obama and advanced the ball on maaaaany issues.

And need I remind you that Bernie Sanders strongly supported Hillary after the 2016 primary was decided - largely because she incorporated maaaaaany of his policy priorities into her platform. (They shared maaaaany policy positions even before the primary was decided.)

Maybe you should have voted for Hillary (who Bernie supported) in 2016???



Or maybe there was "something" about Hillary that disqualified HER in your mind??? The same "something" that disqualified Kamala???







We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Lazaran]

Right. Just like this deranged person wasn't promoting violence...

View attachment 2534594

MAGAts are soooo stupid & dishonest.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[Bn2f]

I try not to be political, but am seeing more and more friends and colleagues fall into an us vs them obsession.
And if that’s the case how do we survive as a nation?

Jake? I could do this all day to the posts this person making, but I promise you that this will be the last.

Right. Just like this deranged person wasn't promoting violence...

So, here is an uncomfortable truth: it matters not if I or this member finds the image and/or messaging offensive. No caveat to the 1st Amendment has been violated. This supposed twitter account is subject to the private terms the company twitter has for service, but they can say these awful things as well as I can scream, post, and march with banners calling for the hanging of Mike Pence*. I say the name Mike Pence because, AGAIN, this member is not a moderate. They did not choose this image to make their point by accident. One needs not have to read between the lines to see their political affiliation. I said earlier they were naive - now I tell you that they are disingenuous or outright lying to the board.

*I actually could not say at the time in any shape or fashion 'Hang Mike Pence'.
I know it seems quaint to argue this now with a spineless DOJ, but Mike Pence, serving as both the VP in the Executive branch as well overseeing the vote in the Legislative Senate, was afforded protective rights shielding him from threats of violence.

 

[Baztrachian]

So it is safe to assume by your answer that you voted for trump in '16, '20, AND '24, correct?
And in '16 you were going to back Bernie Sanders, correct?

In 2016 I honestly did not expect Trump to win anything and I was pissing off my conservative friends when I said I'd vote for Bernie because he at least supported some of the things I wanted to see.

Frankly, I was disappointed that the 2020 election wasn't Bernie & Trump. Their debates would have been pretty damned good and each would have raised their game against the other.

I am still saddened that Bernie got robbed of the nomination by Hillary's DNC super delegate scam. She did a lot of harm to the Democrats with that stunt and it cost her the support of the Bernie voters that year.

 

[Baztrachian]

this member is not a moderate.

That much you got right.

 

[Bn2f]

That much you got right.

I got more than just that right you POS.

 

[Baztrachian]

They did not choose this image to make their point by accident.

True. I chose that because at the time there were some pundits denying that this person was calling for violence even when it was abundantly obvious that he/she was.

This corresponds with the following being a contextual statement of support for violence:

If you support MAGA (fascism, racism, bigotry, and misogyny), then you SHOULD expect a fight, no???

Now to be fair if this were posted circa 2015 I would not say this. But after so many assaults on people whose only 'offense' is wearing a red hat in public then the context has changed.

 

[Lazaran]

True. I chose that because at the time there were some pundits denying that this person was calling for violence even when it was abundantly obvious that he/she was.

This corresponds with the following being a contextual statement of support for violence:



Now to be fair if this were posted circa 2015 I would not say this. But after so many assaults on people whose only 'offense' is wearing a red hat in public then the context has changed.

MAGAts are unfailingly, stupid, dishonest, perpetually offended victims of "something".

MAGAts have to rationalize / justify their deplorable racist, fascistic, misogynistic, imbecilic attitudes & behaviors somehow. And "something" always provides the rationale/ justification.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[RobDownSouth]

In 2016 I honestly did not expect Trump to win anything and I was pissing off my conservative friends when I said I'd vote for Bernie because he at least supported some of the things I wanted to see.

So the act of voting is more or less performative for you?

Yet you expect people here to regard you seriously?