Feedback on new policy announcement.

[AG31]

Manu made it sound like people gave overwhelming, positive feedback about not wanting nudity depicted anywhere on the site. And when users doubt that, you say, "Well, we get images reported all the time". Of course you get images reported... but are they being reported because people don't like nudity and therefore report ALL nudes, or do people report SPECIFIC pictures that somehow upset them?

Why would people who like what they see on Lit give Manu "overwhelming" feedback against a change that they'd never heard of being considered? Only people wanting change would bother.

As a reader, you have total control over that risk, particularly if nudity is limited to places like the Visual Arts forum and the Illustrated Story category.

Yes, a wholesale ban seems overkill. Especially, as others have said, while the banner ads keep me worrying about logging on while people are nearby.

The bit in Manu's post about this change being a result of feedback is amusing as hell.

Yup.

Anyway, I assume this rule won't be applied retroactively? It seems absurd to even think of processing so many illustrated stories and other artwork that contain explicit images.

They' let AI do it, and you can imagine what chaos will ensue.

Here are the basic Forum Photo Guidelines:

• Legally, we can allow soft nudity, but under current United States law, photographs (does not apply to non-photographic images) posted on this site may not contain “sexually explicit conduct”, which the government defines as:

How, then, are there so many explicit nude pictures to be found all over the internet? Is it just that (until now????) nobody has been prosecuting except for underage pics?

Once decided. So long as the rules are clear. I can deal with that.

I may not like it, but there are lots of things that I don't like.

I've never understood the resistance to Lit members' trying to influence the decisions of the admins.

because most people don't host their images themselves, they rely on some third-party to do it,

Are you talking about something like imgur.com? Should one actually be concerned about their changing the image underlying your link?

I don't think anyone is in any doubt of that, but seeing as they have chosen to release the headlines and not even tell you the detail, what did they, or do you expect?

There's a link in the OP to the policy that seemed pretty detailed to me. Is that the one you're referring to has "headlines" only?

 

[THROBBS]

I've never understood the resistance to Lit members' trying to influence the decisions of the admins.

I have given my shot(S) at influencing Manu and Laurel.

In fact, I can take credit and blame for the visual artist's corner AND the "up front" visual artists area.

When I first came to. LIT in the early 2000's There WAS an area for visual art, which had maybe 6? submissions and was inactive, with no way to add to it. Basically abandoned.

I eventually joined LIT (2003 - different user name at that time) and when I found the bulletin boards, I basically settled in the Author's (should have been "Authors'"). I would illustrate some of my posts and uploaded two illustrated stories. I advocated (to Laurel) for an Illustrators' Hangout. After some years, she made a sub forum of the Author's Hangout. That got some traction, but I felt it deserved some visibility and after more pestering from me, the forum was moved to where it is currently found.

Much later, Manu solicited some illustrations for the beta version of the "up front" Artists area and I provided one of the first images (november 2010) for that. After15 years that area seems somewhat vibrant... only to get second guessed, I guess.

 

[jaF0]

...

 

[THROBBS]

Drawings are very much creative works in the same vein as written works. Artists are authors with brushes. The site has embraced them with special recognition and has always held them separate from photographs. Even in law, 'art' has been long held to fall under different rules and less scrutiny.

Until now.

But that's M&L's choice.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

We will have to agree to disagree about what a "real" problem is. The fact that some people complain about content on an erotic content website does not strike me as a problem.

Yeah, I'm not gonna try to convince you. If you don't think it would be a problem for Literotica to lose their hosting provider or payment processors because some Karens run a smear-campaign, then you're either trolling or don't understand the fundamental principles of how the internet works. Both cases, I would just be wasting my time.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Yeah, I'm not gonna try to convince you. If you don't think it would be a problem for Literotica to lose their hosting provider or payment processors because some Karens run a smear-campaign, then you're either trolling or don't understand the fundamental principles of how the internet works. Both cases, I would just be wasting my time.

But why do you expect this to happen now? What changed? Nude/explicit images have been allowed on Lit for years and years, and there have been no problems as far as we know. Was there some radical change in legislation?

 

[jaF0]

...

 

[AG31]

What changed?

Well, I can think of one thing.

 

[AG31]

There is no reason for slurs in this thread.

Just curious here. Which post were you referring to?

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

But why do you expect this to happen now? What changed? Nude/explicit images have been allowed on Lit for years and years, and there have been no problems as far as we know. Was there some radical change in legislation?

Because, as I said, I've seen sudden policy changes like this one happen on multiple sites dealing with erotica in a relatively short time span (the last three months), and each time they explained it with some private group/NGO embarking on some kind of crusade to police the internet. The biggest one so far being SOL, which was also perfectly legal in what they were hosting (at least in the country they operate from).
None of them were as big as Literotica, so I don't know if this isn't just my gut-feeling being wrong, but I see it as a distinct possibility given how it is happening now, and how the explanation for this change makes... not much sense.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Because, as I said, I've seen sudden policy changes like this one happen on multiple sites dealing with erotica in a relatively short time span (the last three months), and each time they explained it with some private group/NGO embarking on some kind of crusade to police the internet. The biggest one so far being SOL, which was also perfectly legal in what they were hosting (at least in the country they operate from).
None of them were as big as Literotica, so I don't know if this isn't just my gut-feeling being wrong, but I see it as a distinct possibility given how it is happening now, and how the explanation for this change makes... not much sense.

I see. Well, we already knew the change wasn't due to feedback. Your explanation makes much more sense.

 

[THROBBS]

I am a bit less concerned with the "why", than with "what" the policy will be — more specifically.

I'll pull my own work, where I can.

 

[SPARTAN047]

I didn't expect this to blow up. Links should be okay, what about the link image option then? It shows a preview right away.

 

[Carson19820]

Kind of like going into bar that doesn't serve alcohol.

Wonder if this new policy has anything to do with some legal threat.

 

[Saltfountain]

There's a link in the OP to the policy that seemed pretty detailed to me. Is that the one you're referring to has "headlines" only?

That's weird given the number of mods here who have publicly said they don't know how the policy is going to work with regards to what defines nudity, whether linking images will be ok or not etc...

Even more weird is someone acting like an expert on the posting rules, whilst at the same time posting nude pics of people other than himself in contravention of the rules...

 

[Thesunmaid]

I don't think anyone is in any doubt of that, but seeing as they have chosen to release the headlines and not even tell you the detail, what did they, or do you expect?

People are looking for information (and I'm aware you are too) so they can decide if this is a site that's worth continuing being part of, or if the changes will reduce enjoyment but in a bearable way.

They have built up not only a community of authors and readers in the last 25 years, but also other creatives who work in different forms, as well as a community who are consumers of one or the other or both.

As someone who is not here for the stories, I understand my presence may no longer be wanted or acceptable, and that as site owners is their right.

But to actively build a community, putting in tools to expand the community from merely the written word, and the to say to the visual community that they're no longer welcome is a big change. Why put the tools and forums in place at all?

I do get what you are saying honey...but the thing is...this is a text based story website. The stories are what makes them money and despite what some might think...lit would probably not be here if it did not make money.

Not saying that the visual community should not be welcome but I mean why not just have a way to put the nude pictures but don't necessarily show them as soon as you log in?

But also in the end as much as it pains me to say...this is their website and if they choose to do this..it's their choice. And if enough people complain about the pictures and report them then it would make sense to go with majority rules. I am sure the visual artists are fabulous..and their work is chefs kiss.

But yeah...in the end if the site owners decided to make it you have a picture of you with a spoon on your head every second Tuesday...or if they want to have no nude images...they can do that too. They might lose people but...they apparently would be also making a lot more happy? And I mean soooo many people have been asking also for a dark mode...and some of the other things they are going to impliment...so yeah...sorry.

 

[THROBBS]

I do get what you are saying honey...but the thing is...this is a text based story website. The stories are what makes them money and despite what some might think...lit would probably not be here if it did not make money.

Not saying that the visual community should not be welcome but I mean why not just have a way to put the nude pictures but don't necessarily show them as soon as you log in?

But also in the end as much as it pains me to say...this is their website and if they choose to do this..it's their choice. And if enough people complain about the pictures and report them then it would make sense to go with majority rules. I am sure the visual artists are fabulous..and their work is chefs kiss.

But yeah...in the end if the site owners decided to make it you have a picture of you with a spoon on your head every second Tuesday...or if they want to have no nude images...they can do that too. They might lose people but...they apparently would be also making a lot more happy? And I mean soooo many people have been asking also for a dark mode...and some of the other things they are going to impliment...so yeah...sorry.

Or a spoon in my hand and in...

YOUR FACE!


(see? This is exactly why they have to implement these rules!) heehee

 

[SimonDoom]

Yeah, I'm not gonna try to convince you. If you don't think it would be a problem for Literotica to lose their hosting provider or payment processors because some Karens run a smear-campaign, then you're either trolling or don't understand the fundamental principles of how the internet works. Both cases, I would just be wasting my time.

I'm not trolling, and you have no cause to raise that suggestion. I may be wrong or ignorant, but I don't say stuff just to provoke people. I say it because I genuinely believe I have grounds to say it. I may be mistaken in my assumptions, but I'm not posting in bad faith.

You might be right about what they're doing and why, and if that's the explanation it's a plausible justification, but that's not what Manu said. He didn't say anything about hosting providers and payment processors. If that's the explanation, I'd like to see the site provide more facts before undertaking the biggest deletion of site content that has happened since I started writing here 8 1/2 years ago.

X.com allows the posting of photographs and illustrations that are more explicit than what you can find here. So do thousands of free websites that are easily accessible by people of all ages. I don't understand the fear of being deplatformed. Lit has been doing this for 25 years. If Lit has actual evidence that this is a concern, I'd like to see them share it at least in part. Manu's explanation is completely different. He suggests it has more to do with users wanting to be able to view the site content without these images popping up. But I can't recall Laurel and Manu ever soliciting the Author's Hangout's opinion on the subject. They didn't solicit my opinion. If they had, I'd tell them I think this is a terrible idea and that this represents a significant loss of site value.

I view this change with chagrin. Literotica is moving backward, not forward. It is removing content that many creators have enjoyed providing and that many readers obviously have enjoyed consuming. The grounds offered for doing so are confusing and vague.

 

[TANSTAAFL58]

There's a lot to unpack here.

I am disappointed that people can fail to see the art in erotic photography despite seeing art in the written word and in what they deem "art". The image above by @THROBBS is creative, erotic and beautiful. Would it shock anyone if I said that I have seen similar photographic images of "naughty bits" displayed in a reflection on some object?

Yes, I know that not all pictures posted on this site are masterpieces of sensuality. But there are plenty of threads that celebrate the flawed beauty of the human body. You aren't going to see that on xHamster or even FetLife. Why? Community. A community of like-minded sex-positive individuals who enjoy each other's creativity.

I expect open minds around here. The evident need to censor images is at odds with all the hate on display in the General Board.

So, why not just ignore the GB?

Exactly.

If you see a thread called "Show Us Your (whatever)", there is going to be lots of naked whatever on display. If you think that might offend you, keep moving.

 

[AngelicaS1780]

Drawings are very much creative works in the same vein as written works. Artists are authors with brushes. The site has embraced them with special recognition and has always held them separate from photographs. Even in law, 'art' has been long held to fall under different rules and less scrutiny.

Photographers are authors with cameras and film/digital sensors. Are the photographs of Ansel Adams, Man Ray, Robert Maplethorpe, and Annie Leibovitz not ‘art’? Putting aside the posting debate, do you actually believe that photographers aren’t artists and that photography doesn’t deserve to be considered a form of art?

 

[Cfnmlover84]

I expect open minds around here. The evident need to censor images is at odds with all the hate on display in the General Board.

Especially when the mod who is the main proponent of banning photos on here is posting transphobic garbage like this on the Mature Sexy Dressed women thread. And they won't let you put their profile on ignore.

https://images2.imgbox.com/b5/b1/PIvUTjJc_o.png



https://images2.imgbox.com/2b/1f/zvoOBIzK_o.png

 

[RejectReality]

https://forum.literotica.com/threads/mature-dressed-and-sexy-women-2.1535949/post-95471648
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/mature-dressed-and-sexy-women-2.1535949/post-95349962
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/mature-dressed-and-sexy-women-2.1535949/post-95350072

The links to the posts pictured above.

 

[LexxRuthless]

Especially when the mod who is the main proponent of banning photos on here is posting transphobic garbage like this on the Mature Sexy Dressed women thread. And they won't let you put their profile on ignore.

https://images2.imgbox.com/b5/b1/PIvUTjJc_o.png



https://images2.imgbox.com/2b/1f/zvoOBIzK_o.png

I have to admit being baffled by the enigma of @jaF0. Dude is the most obvious troll I've encountered on the site and... they made him a moderator?

https://neilpatel.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/What_can_you_do_to_make_a_headline_more_compelling25.jpg

 

[ZfrkS62]

I have to admit being baffled by the enigma of @jaF0. Dude is the most obvious troll I've encountered on the site and... they made him a moderator?

https://neilpatel.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/What_can_you_do_to_make_a_headline_more_compelling25.jpg

Jackoff only deletes what he doesn't agree with and leaves disparaging remarks about it in his wake.

Probably volunteered to be the hall monitor in school, and is the cause of most of the turn over at his job.

 

[Cfnmlover84]

I have to admit being baffled by the enigma of @jaF0. Dude is the most obvious troll I've encountered on the site and... they made him a moderator?

https://neilpatel.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/What_can_you_do_to_make_a_headline_more_compelling25.jpg

He deleted my Male Stripper thread despite it having a lot of likes. He said it was "illegal" which is bullshit. I have never posted anything illegal on here ever.