Will poetry and poets ever again be important?

[Politruk]

This is more a cultural than a political question, but somehow it does not seem to belong in the GB.

There was a time when poetry mattered. A lot of people outside academia studied, memorized and recited poetry. Poets could be celebrities, like Rudyard Kipling, e.e. cummings, Robert Frost, Emily Dickinson. (Though Dickinson was obscure in her own lifetime.) Poets could even be legendary, semi-divine figures, like Orpheus or Homer.

Poetry even seemed to be one of the markers of a cultural period:

Now in fact these abrupt transitions don't happen, either in politics, manners or literature. Each age lives on into the next — it must do so, because there are innumerable human lives spanning every gap. And yet there are such things as periods. We feel our own age to be deeply different from, for instance, the early Victorian period, and an eighteenth-century sceptic like Gibbon would have felt himself to be among savages if you had suddenly thrust him into the Middle Ages. Every now and again something happens — no doubt it's ultimately traceable to changes in industrial technique, though the connexion isn't always obvious — and the whole spirit and tempo of life changes, and people acquire a new outlook which reflects itself in their political behaviour, their manners, their architecture, their literature and everything else. No one could write a poem like Gray's ‘Elegy in a Country Churchyard’ today, for instance, and no one could have written Shakespeare's lyrics in the age of Gray. These things belong in different periods. And though, of course, those black lines across the page of history are an illusion, there are times when the transition is quite rapid, sometimes rapid enough for it to be possible to give it a fairly accurate date. One can say without grossly over-simplifying, ‘About such and such a year, such and such a style of literature began.’ If I were asked for the starting-point modern literature — and the fact that we still call it ‘modern’ shows that this particular period isn't finished yet — I should put it at 1917, the year in which T. S. Eliot published his poem ‘Prufrock’. At any rate that date isn't more than five years out. It is certain that about the end of the last war the literary climate changed, the typical writer came to be quite a different person, and the best books of the subsequent period seemed to exist in a different world from the best books of only four or five years before.

To illustrate what I mean, I ask you to compare in your mind two poems, which haven't any connexion with one another, but which will do for purposes of comparison because each is entirely typical of its period. Compare, for instance, one of Eliot's characteristic earlier poems with a poem of Rupert Brooke, who was, I should say, the most admired English poet in the years before 1914. Perhaps the most representative of Brooke's poems are his patriotic ones, written in the early days of the war. A good one is the sonnet beginning

“If I should die, think only this of me:
‘That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England”

Now read side by side with this one of Eliots's Sweeney poems; for example, ‘Sweeney among the Nightingales’ — you know,

‘The circles of the stormy moon
Slide westward toward the River Plate’

As I say, these poems have no connexion in theme or anything else, but it's possible in a way to compare them, because each is representative of its own time and each seemed a good poem when it was written. The second still seems a good poem now.

-- George Orwell, "The Rediscovery of Europe," 1942.

Poetry now seems to be a dying art apart from song lyrics. Who is now writing poetry that future generations of English students will study and discuss? What is being recited at open-mic poetry slams that anyone but that night's audience will ever hear or read?

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Go away, asshole.

 

[Politruk]

Orwell again:

It is no use pretending that in an age like our own, ‘good’ poetry can have any genuine popularity. It is, and must be, the cult of a very few people, the least tolerated of the arts. Perhaps that statement needs a certain amount of qualification. True poetry can sometimes be acceptable to the mass of the people when it disguises itself as something else. One can see an example of this in the folk-poetry that England still possesses, certain nursery rhymes and mnemonic rhymes, for instance, and the songs that soldiers make up, including the words that go to some of the bugle-calls. But in general ours is a civilization in which the very word ‘poetry’ evokes a hostile snigger or, at best, the sort of frozen disgust that most people feel when they hear the word ‘God’. If you are good at playing the concertina you could probably go into the nearest public bar and get yourself an appreciative audience within five minutes. But what would be the attitude of that same audience if you suggested reading them Shakespeare's sonnets, for instance? Good bad poetry, however, can get across to the most unpromising audiences if the right atmosphere has been worked up beforehand. Some months back Churchill produced a great effect by quoting Clough's ‘Endeavour’ in one of his broadcast speeches. I listened to this speech among people who could certainly not be accused of caring for poetry, and I am convinced that the lapse into verse impressed them and did not embarrass them. But not even Churchill could have got away with it if he had quoted anything much better than this.

"Rudyard Kipling," 1942.

 

[Politruk]

I am a minor poet, BTW.

 

[Bn2f]

https://forum.literotica.com/thread...hallenge-this-is-a-poems-only-thread.1624946/

 

[Politruk]

https://forum.literotica.com/thread...hallenge-this-is-a-poems-only-thread.1624946/

Hmm! I never noticed we had a poetry forum!

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Can analysis be worthwhile?
Is the theater really dead?

 

[Politruk]

Can analysis be worthwhile?
Is the theater really dead?

We're talking about poetry other than song lyrics.

 

[Politruk]

Haiku of the Internet:

Digital hive-brain
Flame-war threads will bifurcate
The seizure is grand mal!

 

[Bray123]

Go away, asshole.

Poor rhyme, no meter, minimal form. Good tone.

 

[Typo Fu Master]

This is more a cultural than a political question, but somehow it does not seem to belong in the GB.

It absolutely belongs on the GB but I understand why you don't want to post it there.

 

[LoneMilf]

We're talking about poetry other than song lyrics.

Why does it have to exclude song lyrics? Isn't that just the most popular form of poetry today?

 

[Politruk]

Why does it have to exclude song lyrics? Isn't that just the most popular form of poetry today?

It's a different art form. Songwriters make up a tune first, then lyrics to fit it. Poets -- as poets -- are not musicians.

 

[RoryN]

This is more a cultural than a political question, but somehow it does not seem to belong in the GB.

There was a time when poetry mattered. A lot of people outside academia studied, memorized and recited poetry. Poets could be celebrities, like Rudyard Kipling, e.e. cummings, Robert Frost, Emily Dickinson. (Though Dickinson was obscure in her own lifetime.) Poets could even be legendary, semi-divine figures, like Orpheus or Homer.

Poetry even seemed to be one of the markers of a cultural period:


-- George Orwell, "The Rediscovery of Europe," 1942.

Poetry now seems to be a dying art apart from song lyrics. Who is now writing poetry that future generations of English students will study and discuss? What is being recited at open-mic poetry slams that anyone but that night's audience will ever hear or read?

You really don't want to find out what's happening with literature in regards to A.I.

(Seriously, don't look.)

 

[Politruk]

You really don't want to find out what's happening with literature in regards to A.I.

(Seriously, don't look.)

Can an AI write a sonnet? A limerick? Even a haiku?

 

[RoryN]

Can an AI write a sonnet? A limerick? Even a haiku?

Yes.

And has been able to fool people into believing they were human-written. On a regular basis.

Some of them are...quite good.

 

[Politruk]

Yes.

And has been able to fool people into believing they were human-written. On a regular basis.

Some of them are...quite good.

When I get a robot call, I always say, "Count to three," and the AI can never do it or even understand the request. But now they can write poetry?!

 

[RoryN]

When I get a robot call, I always say, "Count to three," and the AI can never do it

That's not A.I.

This is A.I.:

AI-generated poetry is indistinguishable from human-written poetry and is rated more favorably

A.I. is taking down T. S. Eliot - Washington Post

 

[Politruk]

That's not A.I.

This is A.I.:

AI-generated poetry is indistinguishable from human-written poetry and is rated more favorably

A.I. is taking down T. S. Eliot - Washington Post

But can they do this?

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/f/fa/suspicion.png


https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/1/11/android_girlfriend.png


https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/9/94/android_boyfriend.png

 

[John_von_Neumann]

But can they do this?

https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/f/fa/suspicion.png


https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/1/11/android_girlfriend.png


https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/9/94/android_boyfriend.png

I'm sure others have used AI to generate xkcd-style comics. It's trivially easy with contemporary frontier models.

 

[RoryN]

View attachment 2532422

I'm sure others have used AI to generate xkcd-style comics. It's trivially easy with contemporary frontier models.

I was going to look into this. Which AI generator did you use?

 

[John_von_Neumann]

I was going to look into this. Which AI generator did you use?

Full disclosure, I ripped this one off Reddit. But it was made with ChatGPT's 4o native image generator.

 

[John_von_Neumann]

View attachment 2532422

I'm sure others have used AI to generate xkcd-style comics. It's trivially easy with contemporary frontier models.

Just made with 4o. Not the most clever. But AI can clearly do cartoons.

 

[butters]

Haiku of the Internet:

Digital hive-brain
Flame-war threads will bifurcate
The seizure is grand mal!

not haiku but a smart, short poem

adding additional words to 'fit' a misconception of 5-7-5 weakens your piece in this instance; it would work better if you dropped 'will' and altered that last line to:

seizures grand mal!

Digital hive-brain
Flame wars bifurcate—
seizures grand mal!

 

[Politruk]

View attachment 2532436

Just made with 4o. Not the most clever. But AI can clearly do cartoons.

I don't believe for a moment any AI thought up the joke in that cartoon.