A question for the group

[NotWise]

I've been thinking about this occasionally for the last few weeks, so I thought I'd toss it out here and see what others have to say. I thought of asking on BlueSky, but the community here is both larger and more engaged.

What in written erotica gives the readers their kicks?

It's easy to say, "everybody's different," but I think that's a bit of a cop-out. Our readers all have one big thing in common: they enjoy written erotica, and that sets them off from a probably much larger group that needs more visual stimulation.

What I've decided so far is that it's usually the idea that turns people on. Our stories, visual descriptions, and the physical gyrations we invent are mostly window dressing. At the heart of it, the reader has to have an interest in the underlying idea or the story won't work.

What is a successful stroker? From reading them (I haven't tried writing one) it's an idea that excites some readers that's presented with low intellectual barriers to enjoyment.

What's exciting about an erotic romance? It's the idea of a developing relationship leading to an erotic conclusion.

On the other hand, why is the community that reads erotic Sci-Fi so small? Because readers have to wade through world-building that rarely feeds a basic, erotic idea.

All of those fetishes? They're all different ideas. Group sex stories, bondage stories, age-gap stories, Mom/son stories, on and on. They're all ideas that different people find arousing. How does tab A fit into slot B? Are the players drop-dead gorgeous? Is it a beautiful day at the beach or a damp night in some dark ally? Maybe those things don't really matter unless they build the underlying idea.

I'm interested in y'all's thoughts. For my purposes, maybe I'm starting to get a better understanding of some of my own successes and failures.

 

[NuclearFairy]

Well my story with the highest number of favorites is at it's heart a romantic stroker.

If you take out the non human part and boil it down to it's elements, girl is down on romantic luck, girl meets guy, they hit it off, they fuck, find out they're extremely sexually compatible, have some more pillow talk, fall asleep, the end.

So I'd guess that readers like, even in their stroke stories, a healthy does of romance and sweetness.

 

[yowser]

Interesting question. For me as a reader, there is nothing so immersive as writing. A good writer can pull you in, make you think, feel, see, hear in a way that is not possible in any other medium. I am a visual oriented person (although decidedly incompetent when it actually comes to any creation in any sort of visual media) but when I see a writer who 'paints' with their words, I am putty in their hands. Nabokov or Wallace or Kingsolver all are able to pull you into their story (maybe adjacent to your 'idea') with details that elicit a strong emotional connection.

Music can be similarly immersive, but in a quite different way. It relies primarily on one sense perception but can tap deeply. Good writing is a vortex, and as an enchanted reader I want to be pulled into the center of it all, feel the churning, the motion, the giddiness. If someone uses words uniquely, it is a thrill, but to make it work well takes talent and care.

Good erotica takes me someplace, hits the right arousal notes in the right rhythm, engages primal instincts. Bonus points for word flair and imagination.

 

[jehoram]

Like any good fiction, the story allows the reader to put him/herself into the head of the character, and see what the character sees, and feel what the character feels. The kicker is that these aren't the head-spaces that the reader is usually in in their everyday, humdrum life. The reader can "walk on the wild side," so to speak.

 

[AchtungNight]

It’s getting to be in a fantasy world for just a little while. You can have a fling with someone famous or forbidden, an orgy, a dream relationship… and it will work out well even if it shouldn’t, unless you don’t want things going well for some reason. In real life such things are difficult to achieve and might not work out even if you get them. Look at the high divorce rate, the uncertainty of dating, the amount of people who waste money on sex tourism… This is easier and more fun than dealing with that.

 

[Bamagan]

There certainly seem to be some folks whose primary interest is in the idea and not its particular expression. For them, even a clumsy vehicle (a poorly-written or hastily-edited story) will get them where they want to go. If they vote, I believe they tend to vote generously based on how closely the author's idea lies to their ideal. But there are also plenty of people who refuse to ride in a dirty clunker, so to speak, and still others who look askance at the elaborately decorated show-cars (of Sci-Fi, as you called out) and decide the cost of the ride is probably too high.
As I've probably said elsewhere, some readers seem to be seeking a story that will put them in the mood, and therefore prefer something relatively long and detailed, whereas others are seeking a story that will put them over the edge, and therefore probably want things to progress expeditiously.

All of those fetishes? They're all different ideas. Group sex stories, bondage stories, age-gap stories, Mom/son stories, on and on. They're all ideas that different people find arousing. How does tab A fit into slot B? Are the players drop-dead gorgeous? Is it a beautiful day at the beach or a damp night in some dark ally? Maybe those things don't really matter unless they build the underlying idea.

I'm interested in y'all's thoughts. For my purposes, maybe I'm starting to get a better understanding of some of my own successes and failures.

 

[ronde]

In my experience it isn't detailed, graphic descriptions of sex that makes readers keep coming back to any given author. It's the author's ability to describe the characters and then sketch the scene in a way that lets the reader paint a picture according to their unique way of thinking. Detailed descriptions of body parts and actions tell the reader what the author "sees", and that's not necessarily what the reader wants to see.

In my opinion, the sci-fi genre has fewer readers because too many authors feel they need to create a fantasy world filled with people, places and things that are difficult for some readers to get their head around. Many read more like a video game session than a story. That's fine for some readers, but difficult for others to enjoy because the characters and plot stretches far beyond being plausible, let alone believable. No matter how much technology improves, humans will still be the same people we are today. They might have more knowledge, but the same hopes and fears in us will also be present in them. That's why "Star Wars", "Star Trek" and other movies in this genre were so successful. They're stories set in a future time, but the characters, even the aliens, and their reactions to each other are the same as we'd react today if put into a similar situation.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

I think it's being able to get into the heads of the people who are engaged in the sex. Visual porn is easy - you look at it, you see people having sex. That can be titillating, sure, but in the end, you know that these are people acting. They're getting paid to do it, and even the most enthusiastic actors are still, in the end, actors.

In our stories, for the most part, the characters are people, they are motivated by pleasure to do what they're doing in the story, not by money or because it's a job. I think that makes written erotica far more, well, erotic than just watching a couple of folks banging, even if they're amateurs, etc.

Being the fly on the wall, knowing the motivations, all that stuff - it is far better than you'll get from most videos.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

From my experience, readers seem to like characters with enough depth that they can care about them, that what happens to them, sexual or not, matters. I infer from comments and emails that readers like intimacy and romance more than just sex, and happy endings, yeah, they love happy endings.

 

[Erozetta]

I think it's more about the potential than the action. We can get into the heads of the characters in a way that porn can't. We can connect people to emotions they may not have been able to verbalize before, and we do it while aiming to get the reader aroused.

It can be more immersive than porn because we often leave room for them to imagine our characters with their ideals around attraction in play, or we allow them to insert themselves into the story.

Plus we give them a little piece of ourselves with each story. For better or worse, it's one writer connecting with one reader instead of being part of a big production. It's more intimate and personal.


Or at least that's my take on it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think it's being able to get into the heads of the people who are engaged in the sex. Visual porn is easy - you look at it, you see people having sex. That can be titillating, sure, but in the end, you know that these are people acting. They're getting paid to do it, and even the most enthusiastic actors are still, in the end, actors.

I think it's more about the potential than the action. We can get into the heads of the characters in a way that porn can't. We can connect people to emotions they may not have been able to verbalize before, and we do it while aiming to get the reader aroused.

These comments are close to mine. For me, it's the humanity in the stories that I write, of a close and intimate world where most often two, but more recently three, people are together or get together. I come back to the idea, often, of "a safe haven" - which a commenter wrote, quite some time ago now (so long ago, I can't recall the story) - a place where she could for a little while escape her own world, which was obviously troubled, and enjoy her own body through the gift of my words (another phrase I've read often), with kind people being good to each other.

My writing relies on mood more than conflict, people more than place, feeling more than some great idea. For me, there is no great idea, nothing spectacular to say, no next greatest erotic novel, no hubris. Well, there might be some of that. Even when I set out to write a stroker (my Ruby stories) - sex without emotion - someone wrote this:

I love these two. They feel so desperately human. I'm very jealous of them. I can't wait to explore more of their sumptuous relationship. Although I will, because your stories have a lovely way of filling the mind for a good long while.

That catches the essence that's in my writing, I think, the humanity.

 

[kitmarlowe]

For me, I want some sort of emotional connection to the characters. Even in a very short story that's little more than a stroker, I need some reason to care about these people and to be invested in whatever erotic situation they're involved in. Without that it's just meaningless to me and I don't find it enjoyable to read at all.

Something I really love is the promise of action without actually getting there. The thrill of desire is often so much more fun to me than the actual payoff. Give me characters who want each other and then keep putting obstacles in their way and I'll be hooked forever.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

It's more personal. It's something that unfolds right in front of the mind's eye, it's something that could not only make the reader an accomplice, but also the perpetrator. In simpler terms, it's more gonzo than gonzo, do you know what I mean?

Storytelling, if done correctly, whether it is oral or written, is capable of provoking so much emotions with so little, and this isn't just in the realm of erotica. Making stuff up is fun, no matter whether you're a writer or a reader. Besides, there are no limits as to what the mind's eye is capable of seeing.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Hi NotWise, I took a look at your story list - I may have done that before, I don't remember - and you have done well here. I did notice that your submissions seem to be less frequent in the last couple of years. Do you feel you need to recharge your energy?

Generally, I don't worry too much about the readers and scores if I reread it and still like it. Either they get their kicks or they don't. Last fall I wrote a non-fiction essay about what movie theaters were like when I was young. Only 1,100 people viewed it, and only two people voted. But somehow they both gave me a 5. I list that one as a modest success.

I did pull a chapter a couple of weeks ago, but it wasn't because the readers didn't get it. I had to admit that I botched it, and a few people in the Story Feedback section helped me see that. So I'm rewriting it as a stand-alone piece for another site.

 

[gunhilltrain]

You asked about erotic sci-fi and why it has a small following here. I don't know. The only time I've written one I based it on an old Twilight Zone episode. Yet it was one of the relatively few red H's I've gotten here.

 

[NotWise]

I'll see if my reply can be germane.

Hi NotWise, I took a look at your story list - I may have done that before, I don't remember - and you have done well here. I did notice that your submissions seem to be less frequent in the last couple of years. Do you feel you need to recharge your energy?

otched it, and a few people in the Story Feedback section helped me see that. So I'm rewriting it as a stand-alone piece for another site.

I published three stories in the first half of 2023, one of which took six months to write, and the reader's response was demotivating. I didn't publish for almost a year and a half, but I've published two since.

Failure of the three stories were my fault, and here's how I understand the outcome:

For A Little Dirty, a Little Bit Salty, I intended to write about a young woman's sexual explorations. The idea probably would have been interesting for readers, but then I couched it in this long story about her job as an independent reporter. The story obscured the underlying erotic concept, and the initial readers in EC didn't like it. I think most of the later reads are my followers or spin-offs from other stories, so the long story gives them something they're used to.

Escape from Cimarron is a profane, swashbuckling adventure that I conceived while writing A Little Dirty, a Little Bit Salty. There's nothing inherently erotic about swashbuckling adventure, and I compounded that by tagging on a poorly-conceived and artificially shortened sex scene that the readers didn't like. The story was a hoot to write, and some readers loved the humor and the adventure, but no-one liked the sex. I rewrote the sex scene entirely and the edited version was published today. It'll probably take two years to know if the edits were worth my time.

Naked House was an entry in the Nude Day Contest, based on an older woman-younger man theme. I made the characters a little unlikable and the events a little seamy. The erotic theme took back seat to the characters, and the story wasn't popular. Personally I like the story and I think it's well-written. It isn't hard to find well-written stories here that do poorly, and Naked House is an example.

You asked about erotic sci-fi and why it has a small following here. I don't know. The only time I've written one I based it on an old Twilight Zone episode. Yet it was one of the relatively few red H's I've gotten here.

According to @8letters work, stories in Sci-Fi and Fantasy have one of the highest average rating on Lit. The small crowd that reads there can be appreciative. I have three stories in the category, and among my stories they're all in the lowest 25th percentile for views, along with the second parts and late chapters. But they all score well.

There is nothing inherently erotic in the category. You can publish any sort of kink you want to there, and largely or entirely non-erotic stories can do as well as erotic stories.

 

[Britva415]

What in written erotica gives the readers their kicks?

It's easy to say, "everybody's different," but I think that's a bit of a cop-out. Our readers all have one big thing in common: they enjoy written erotica, and that sets them off from a probably much larger group that needs more visual stimulation.

What I've decided so far is that it's usually the idea that turns people on. Our stories, visual descriptions, and the physical gyrations we invent are mostly window dressing. At the heart of it, the reader has to have an interest in the underlying idea

I don't really see the difference between your question "what in written erotica gives the readers their kicks" and the obvious re-phrasing of it, "what ideas in written erotica give the readers their kicks," which absolutely is answerable with "everybody's different."

 

[NotWise]

I don't really see the difference between your question "what in written erotica gives the readers their kicks" and the obvious re-phrasing of it, "what ideas in written erotica give the readers their kicks," which absolutely is answerable with "everybody's different."

Taking the easy way out.

 

[Britva415]

Taking the easy way out.

Maybe I don't understand what you're asking for.

 

[Dearelliot]

Yeah, what Yowser said in #3

 

[NotWise]

Maybe I don't understand what you're asking for.

Other people have answered in terms of the differences between written and visual erotica, or in what they want in written erotica. I imagine there are other ways to answer it.

I could disagree with some of it, but I'd really rather read what people have to say.

My answer leaned toward the elements of a story that are most important to reader's enjoyment. I think it's the erotic idea, the theme, that turns readers on. The story's execution doesn't have to be great to get a great response as long as the focus remains clear.

 

[lovecraft68]

It's the kink itself and then the journey to get to the actual delivering of said kink. Some like the short trip that just gets down to it, some like a longer winding journey.

 

[NotWise]

It's the kink itself and then the journey to get to the actual delivering of said kink. Some like the short trip that just gets down to it, some like a longer winding journey.

Thanks. That's what I was trying to say. I think.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'll see if my reply can be germane.

I published three stories in the first half of 2023, one of which took six months to write, and the reader's response was demotivating. I didn't publish for almost a year and a half, but I've published two since.

Failure of the three stories were my fault, and here's how I understand the outcome:

For A Little Dirty, a Little Bit Salty, I intended to write about a young woman's sexual explorations. The idea probably would have been interesting for readers, but then I couched it in this long story about her job as an independent reporter. The story obscured the underlying erotic concept, and the initial readers in EC didn't like it. I think most of the later reads are my followers or spin-offs from other stories, so the long story gives them something they're used to.

Escape from Cimarron is a profane, swashbuckling adventure that I conceived while writing A Little Dirty, a Little Bit Salty. There's nothing inherently erotic about swashbuckling adventure, and I compounded that by tagging on a poorly-conceived and artificially shortened sex scene that the readers didn't like. The story was a hoot to write, and some readers loved the humor and the adventure, but no-one liked the sex. I rewrote the sex scene entirely and the edited version was published today. It'll probably take two years to know if the edits were worth my time.

Naked House was an entry in the Nude Day Contest, based on an older woman-younger man theme. I made the characters a little unlikable and the events a little seamy. The erotic theme took back seat to the characters, and the story wasn't popular. Personally I like the story and I think it's well-written. It isn't hard to find well-written stories here that do poorly, and Naked House is an example.



According to @8letters work, stories in Sci-Fi and Fantasy have one of the highest average rating on Lit. The small crowd that reads there can be appreciative. I have three stories in the category, and among my stories they're all in the lowest 25th percentile for views, along with the second parts and late chapters. But they all score well.

There is nothing inherently erotic in the category. You can publish any sort of kink you want to there, and largely or entirely non-erotic stories can do as well as erotic stories.

I do find it baffling because those stories did great. The fact that one of them increased in the score is a bit unusual, because it's more common for the score to drop. Maybe your followers did show up; I'm skeptical about that as a metric because they mostly don't show up. Comments are truly difficult to get. If I had to guess, it sounds like you are dissatisfied, not the readers. But I have no idea why that is because you haven't told us.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think "idea" comes pretty close to it. There are related concepts: the context in which something sexual happens, the attitude or relationship a character has to the sexual experience, and the relationship two characters have with each other with regard to a sexual experience.

The sex itself isn't the thing that makes it titillating and exciting. Sex between a mom and a son is much the same as the sex between any woman and man. It's the relationship that makes it sizzle.

A woman walking naked by a pool isn't inherently interesting if, for instance, she's a long-time nudist walking by a pool in a nudist community. But if she's walking naked by a pool where you're not supposed to be naked on a dare,then it's interesting. If she's walking naked because her husband wants her too, it's interesting.