What’s your most controversial opinion?

[Strixaluco]

I doubt it.

First the withholding spouse would have to be aware that they’re neglecting their spouses needs/wants.

Then willing to openly say they’re doing so for whatever reason: exhaustion, stress being common. But other times to punish a spouse they’re mad at. Mad for over a decade?! Denying sex for over a decade…

And the friend would have to be willing to correct that bullshit. I’m that friend. I’m not sure many more are.

What I see play out instead is the pile on after any amount of cheating is involved and the spouse who denies intimacy milking the sympathy.

Why it does happen is mostly the withholding spouses not talking to their friends how they are withholding. Much less than people admitting to their friends - or over here - how they are cheating.

I believe friends are just as willing to correct the bullshit as in the case of cheating. They just seldom hear it as plainly in the case of withholding.

If it even is a plain case. It might be a case of unrecognised asexuality. Or the sex only ever being one-sided enjoyable in that relationship. But those being denied sex never admit or even recognise if there has in fact been a lack of safe space to discuss these issues, or even outright disregard for what the spouse might want or need.

 

[FreckledSprite]

But those being denied sex never admit or even recognise if there has in fact been a lack of safe space to discuss these issues, or even outright disregard for what the spouse might want or need.

This is simply untrue. If you have Reddit, you should visit the Dead Bedrooms subreddit.

So many neglected spouses have broached the subject, ad nauseam, desperate for a solution. Willing to do anything to please their partner. Just to get blown off again and again.

The withholding partner is getting exactly what they’re after. Financial stability, all a married status affords them, someone to split the household chores. There’s no motivation for them to meet their partners needs.

There are plenty of cases where the withholding spouse is dangling sex like a carrot on a stick to demand more from their neglected spouse.

 

[subdudeme13]

This is simply untrue. If you have Reddit, you should visit the Dead Bedrooms subreddit.

So many neglected spouses have broached the subject, ad nauseam, desperate for a solution. Willing to do anything to please their partner. Just to get blown off again and again.

The withholding partner is getting exactly what they’re after. Financial stability, all a married status affords them, someone to split the household chores. There’s no motivation for them to meet their partners needs.

There are plenty of cases where the withholding spouse is dangling sex like a carrot on a stick to demand more from their neglected spouse.

Does the withholding spouse have Freckles? (Asking for a friend!)

 

[FreckledSprite]

Does the withholding spouse have Freckles? (Asking for a friend!)

Do you lack the ability to read the room?

 

[subdudeme13]

Ya think?

 

[Strixaluco]

This is simply untrue. If you have Reddit, you should visit the Dead Bedrooms subreddit.

So many neglected spouses have broached the subject, ad nauseam, desperate for a solution. Willing to do anything to please their partner. Just to get blown off again and again.

The withholding partner is getting exactly what they’re after. Financial stability, all a married status affords them, someone to split the household chores. There’s no motivation for them to meet their partners needs.

There are plenty of cases where the withholding spouse is dangling sex like a carrot on a stick to demand more from their neglected spouse.

Oh I know many of the neclected spouses are definitely not at fault. And I recommend them to leave just as much as their neglecting spouse.

I also know that not all are as innocent as they claim. You only hear their side of the story, remember. They may exaggerate how much they actually do (some say they do half the chores when it's actually 15% etc), or neglect telling that they, in fact, get all defensive when their spouse actually tries to discuss it, which has eventually led to not even trying anymore, because the "neglected" spouse is willing to hear anything but what is actually the root of all things.

And no, I absolutely don't have reddit, I stay away from there.

 

[FreckledSprite]

Oh I know many of the neclected spouses are definitely not at fault. And I recommend them to leave just as much as their neglecting spouse.

I also know that not all are as innocent as they claim. You only hear their side of the story, remember. They may exaggerate how much they actually do (some say they do half the chores when it's actually 15% etc), or neglect telling that they, in fact, get all defensive when their spouse actually tries to discuss it, which has eventually led to not even trying anymore, because the "neglected" spouse is willing to hear anything but what is actually the root of all things.

And no, I absolutely don't have reddit, I stay away from there.

I’m not sure what is happening here but it feels like you only interact with those who deny sex. Or maybe we’re having cultural differences.

There are plenty of people who after a few sentences I can say I understand why your spouse won’t fuck you. And it does vary from not helping at home to being emotionally unavailable.

But here, the neglected spouse’s voice is almost always drowned out. Sex is rarely talked about at all and there’s a stigma for many who have healthy libidos with partners who reject them.

For me, Sex is an expression of unconditional love. I care about my husband and his mental health. I really don’t like marital sex reduced to being a transactional dependent on a % of chores completed.

If the neglecting spouse doesn’t feel love anymore, they should be honest about it and not keep someone around for lifestyle reasons.

 

[Apisto42]

You’re both right depending on individual situations.

It’s impossible to paint this issue with a broad brush and say it’s always true.

Every bad marriage is unique in its own way.

 

[FreckledSprite]

Ya think?

I think you have nothing to contribute to this conversation. Possibly not any conversation, ever.

 

[FreckledSprite]

You’re both right depending on individual situations.

It’s impossible to paint this issue with a broad brush and say it’s always true.

Every bad marriage is unique in its own way.

Except these aren’t being recognized as Bad Marriages because everyone upholds the image of things being kosher. A lot of my point is there’s an entire swath of our population who don’t ever hear the side of the neglected spouse.

And the Do This to Get Sex checklist:
Chores
Pursue your spouse/Give your spouse space
Did you help get the kids to bed?
Did you tell them they’re attractive? Don’t do it in a creepy way.
Did you try this? Did you do this? How about this?

 

[subdudeme13]

Most people just don't understand sarcasm.

I think you are right!

 

[Apisto42]

Except these aren’t being recognized as Bad Marriages because everyone upholds the image of things being kosher. A lot of my point is there’s an entire swath of our population who don’t ever hear the side of the neglected spouse.

And the Do This to Get Sex checklist:
Chores
Pursue your spouse/Give your spouse space
Did you help get the kids to bed?
Did you tell them they’re attractive? Don’t do it in a creepy way.
Did you try this? Did you do this? How about this?

Sorry had to laugh at the checklist. If you only get sex in marriage because of transactions, you’re fucking paying way too much.

If one spouse desires sex with their partner, and the other doesn’t (for non medical reasons), there’s more at issue than “did you take out the garbage”. Notice I used the word “desires”, not the physical act of sex. If fucking your spouse is a chore every time (we’ve all taken one for the team occasionally), there’s a problem.

Not having sex is a symptom of a bad marriage. Not a cause (usually) in and of itself. I blame the puritans for many of America’s problems in general, and the inability to have a conversation about the importance of sex in a marriage in particular.

 

[FreckledSprite]

Sorry had to laugh at the checklist. If you only get sex in marriage because of transactions, you’re fucking paying way too much.

If one spouse desires sex with their partner, and the other doesn’t (for non medical reasons), there’s more at issue than “did you take out the garbage”. Notice I used the word “desires”, not the physical act of sex. If fucking your spouse is a chore every time (we’ve all taken one for the team occasionally), there’s a problem.

Not having sex is a symptom of a bad marriage. Not a cause (usually) in and of itself. I blame the puritans for many of America’s problems in general, and the inability to have a conversation about the importance of sex in a marriage in particular.

I see two ongoing epidemics:
Sexual issues in marriage
mental health

And you nailed it: NO ONE TALKS ABOUT IT. So all these people are suffering in silence. I think people would be surprised how many women are in the Dead Bedrooms subreddit on Reddit.

People need to be discussing things like ED. The female orgasm. Menopause.

We discuss our marital problems leaving the sexual part out. I agree this is American purity culture. People still act like sex doesn’t happen yet we all, or most (yes I understand there are asexual people), at some point in our life are sexual beings.

And it’s not just sex. I crave intellectual conversation, nonsexual touch, and feeling like I’m loved and appreciated just as much as I want sex.

 

[Mo_Bandy]

Most controversial opinions are not very controversial just random, dumb and boring.

 

[Mo_Bandy]

Airheads is Brendan Fraser‘s best movie.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/3f/Airheads_film_poster.jpg/220px-Airheads_film_poster.jpg

Back when muh fuckers spoke the truth.

 

[NeonSubtlety]

flannel only belongs with pajamas.

 

[OrdinaryPerson]

flannel only belongs with pajamas.

Wrong. So wrong. So incredibly wrong

 

[JustAnotherFlower]

That opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, but you don't go flashing it about until asked.

 

[Strixaluco]

I’m not sure what is happening here but it feels like you only interact with those who deny sex. Or maybe we’re having cultural differences.

There are plenty of people who after a few sentences I can say I understand why your spouse won’t fuck you. And it does vary from not helping at home to being emotionally unavailable.

But here, the neglected spouse’s voice is almost always drowned out. Sex is rarely talked about at all and there’s a stigma for many who have healthy libidos with partners who reject them.

For me, Sex is an expression of unconditional love. I care about my husband and his mental health. I really don’t like marital sex reduced to being a transactional dependent on a % of chores completed.

If the neglecting spouse doesn’t feel love anymore, they should be honest about it and not keep someone around for lifestyle reasons.

What is happening is that I see the opposite. I live in a different culture of course - I am thankfully not American! Sex is talked about here, and it's OK to complain about spouse denying sex and not questioning if it's perhaps not that simple. There's a damn strong stereotype about women withholding sex to get something.

Discussing reasons isn't accepted as much. Well, women being denied sex aren't really heard much either.

And your assumption about me only interacting with denyers is all wrong. The only ones denying sex that I know personally have been my own late husband (he did both the cheating and the denying), and then one other person whose situation I cannot discuss with them because I am not supposed to know, so I only have what I know of their personality - and I know keeping up the lifestyle was NOT the thing keeping them together, as divorce didn't make them any worse. It is clearly something more complicated than that.

Usually relationships issues are more complicated than that.

Considering the amount of sex outside love I think we can say that for most people sex is not an expression of unconditional love. I've even suffered from an almost sexless relationship with someone who definitely did love me unconditionally... (It was me who left.)

 

[FreckledSprite]

Considering the amount of sex outside love I think we can say that for most people sex is not an expression of unconditional love. I've even suffered from an almost sexless relationship with someone who definitely did love me unconditionally... (It was me who left.)

You’re twisting what I said. I never claimed it was an expression of love for others but it’s one of the ways I express my unconditional love. I made a vow to love and cherish and neglecting that part shouldn’t be given a pass while the foresaking all others is enforced. Both should be seen as a vow violation but only one is recognized.

Sex that occurs outside of love has no bearing on my statement either. My wording would need to be “sex is only an expression of unconditional love,” for what you said to make sense. I did not say that and you shouldn’t have implied that I did.

 

[Apisto42]

Any half competent marriage counselor would say it (denial of sex) has to be talked about. It’s either a straight up power play (asshole move) or a symptom of something(s) else. And that both infidelity and denial of sex are both “vow violations“ as you put it.

I would think that on lit of all places it could actually be talked about openly.

 

[FreckledSprite]

Any half competent marriage counselor would say it (denial of sex) has to be talked about. It’s either a straight up power play (asshole move) or a symptom of something(s) else. And that both infidelity and denial of sex are both “vow violations“ as you put it.

I would think that on lit of all places it could actually be talked about openly.

And yet, there are a lot of people here who hide their marital status and when they admit to it, give a lengthy explanation of why they’d be here despite being married. I’ve heard the same story too many times to count. They think their situation is unique which must be very isolating. They’re amazed they don’t have to convince me of their worth and that I empathize.

There’s something very universal in the brokenness of those who feel unseen (not just sex related but children whose parents weren’t available or responsive, people who can’t find a friend group, the homeless who everyone tries to look past, etc).

 

[Apisto42]

Loneliness is a powerful force. Society encourages us to be quiet about it and not complain. Allowing people to connect who would not otherwise be able to do so, is one of the things I love about lit.

If anyone on lit is here because of being lonely, I would encourage them to be as open and honest as they feel comfortable with as that’s the best way to then connect with others and discuss normally difficult topics.

Plus I think through being forced to type our thoughts it does give a chance to really think about them, ponder them, ask ourselves are we really being truthful to ourselves about “this” issue that we feel a need to discuss.

The worst fallacies after all are the ones we tell ourselves.

 

[Strixaluco]

Any half competent marriage counselor would say it (denial of sex) has to be talked about. It’s either a straight up power play (asshole move) or a symptom of something(s) else. And that both infidelity and denial of sex are both “vow violations“ as you put it.

I would think that on lit of all places it could actually be talked about openly.

This exactly.

Sex doesn't need to be transactional for it to suffer from other issues in the relationship.

 

[OrdinaryPerson]

Other than from parent to child, there's no such thing as unconditional love