Story score percentiles - LW versus the rest

[NoTalentHack]

Quality of writing/storytelling is the smallest factor determining score, so highly doubt that.

At least with regards to LW, where a writer can't lean on a fetish (or even a trope) to dig themselves out of a whole, it matters more than elsewhere. He's right that the number of quality stories has gone down in the last year or so, at least of the type that are actually "stories" and not a bag of tropes/sex scenes cobbled together.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

He's right that the number of quality stories has gone down in the last year or so, at least of the type that are actually "stories" and not a bag of tropes/sex scenes cobbled together.

My impression is the same in the categories I read.

 

[PapaRomantic]

In regards to the red 'H' - If my memory serves me correctly, I've seen posts in AH about ratings where the poster commented that they don't give ratings on stories unless it's a 5. I have no stats to back this theory up, but if enough people felt the same way, that might help explain why the average ratings all-time are at the 'H' level.

Math is not my strong point, so I could be way off.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

At least with regards to LW, where a writer can't lean on a fetish (or even a trope) to dig themselves out of a whole, it matters more than elsewhere. He's right that the number of quality stories has gone down in the last year or so, at least of the type that are actually "stories" and not a bag of tropes/sex scenes cobbled together.

No, I don't buy that quality writing helps you more in any category except probably N/N a bit.

Remember kids: the score (regardless of category) is really only an indicator of how much the readership agrees with your story. If you told it the way that they wanted to hear it, you will generally score well. If you tell them something that was outside of their hopes, your score will generally suffer.

If your cheating couple reconciles, the BtBs will hate (downvote) it because they disagree with it no matter how well you wrote it.

If your bitch gets burned, the reconcile crowd will hate (downvote) it because they disagree with it no matter how well you wrote it.

If your romance doesn't end happily the romance crowd will probably downvote it because their fantasy disagrees with it no matter how well you wrote it.

If your incest story has infidelity or abuse, the incest crowd will downvote it because they disagree with it no matter how well you wrote it.

If you write a caring Dom, the abusive Dom crowd will downvote it because they disagree with it no matter how well you wrote it.

If you write an abusive Dom, the caring Dom crowd will downvote it because they disagree with it no matter how well you wrote it.

If you stick it in her ass and she hates it, the anal crowd will downvote it because their fantasy disagrees with it no matter how well you wrote it.

It goes on and on. None of this has really much of anything to do with your quality of prose, flow, structure, plot, motive, character development, description or immersion or heaven forbid theme. Very few of the readers here even know what those things are. Now this sounds like I'm putting down the readership. I'm not. I'm just being real. As writers here we just have to accept that it's a porn site and it's a porn crowd and that's the reality of it. Even Simon (one of the most highly literate members of our forum) admits that he writes primarily to get people off and when he reads here (the key point being here on lit) he reads primarily for titilation (his words). I won't speak for Simon but he is probably willing to give a piece of mediocre calibre writing a 5 if it was fun to read and satisfied his urges, or whatever, because he agrees that for the most part a story here should foremost be more or less titlating.

The point is, that if your story scores a 4.78, that in no definite way means that you wrote well. It might, but you can't really tell. The voting is political. Does the reader agree with the story or not, and if they do, how much? It is largely this.

 

[yowser]

It could also mean the stories the past year are not as good or at least what the readers there want. (I think both.) I used to read a half dozen daily that I liked. Now I'd happy to find one or two.

I'll wager, with some evidence, that a good number of LW authors have shifted their offerings to Fetish, which now has a much higher percentage of cuck interest. I suspect many got tired of both the lower scoring and the increasingly virulent commentary in LW.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I'll wager, with some evidence, that a good number of LW authors have shifted their offerings to Fetish, which now has a much higher percentage of cuck interest. I suspect many got tired of both the lower scoring and the increasingly virulent commentary in LW.

I've been in chat for seven years now and in that time cuck has surged forward big time to easily be the #2 kink behind incest. Some days you just can't get away from it. Even in the Christian room (which is a fucking lame dead room), someone will pop in and say "duh - bang my catholic wife?"

 

[mirafrida]

pink_silk_glove said:
Quality of writing/storytelling is the smallest factor determining score, so highly doubt that.

At least with regards to LW, where a writer can't lean on a fetish (or even a trope) to dig themselves out of a whole, it matters more than elsewhere.

Commenter 1: "It’s so real, it hurts. This is a couple who became roommates instead of a couple and it showed."

Commenter 2: "Wow. That’s some bullshit you’re selling. ... Fiction with a Capitol F

Commenter 3: "I appreciated the realism of both characters. There were so many authentic emotions"

Commenter 4: "10 pages for an umpteenth cheating-cucking tale, ending with an unbelievable RAAC is certainly too much"

Commenter 5: "This was one of the most entrancing stories I have read here…ever."

Commenter 6: "A long dumb tale. Really. And that’s the positive thing about it."

Commenter 7: "Amazing creativity. Amazing imagination"

It's a quality story! Or... is it? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[AwkwardlySet]

It could also mean the stories the past year are not as good or at least what the readers there want. (I think both.) I used to read a half dozen daily that I liked. Now I'd happy to find one or two.

My theory is that the reduction in story quality is due to two major reasons.

1. I'd say that in recent years, many decent authors have moved to paying platforms such as Amazon, Smashwords, etc. Some platforms such as Patreon, which has become increasingly popular for creators of all kinds of content, didn't even exist until 2013 or 2014? I'll guess that it took a couple of years before some authors decided to shift to that commercial model. It could be that overall, decent authors publish less on Literotica than they used to a decade ago?

2. There are far more daily submissions to Lit than ten or fifteen years ago. I see so many new authors who keep producing these 1k-word stories and chapters and who create an illusion that there are so many new stories to sift through. In truth, there are fewer stories but a lot more noise in the shape of these... attempts, shall we call them.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Stick it in her poop chute, make sure she likes it, and collect your 5s.

Gosh, Miss Pink, so romantic! You got your Valentine's Day story going with that?

 

[8letters]

Anal probably scores the highest. In fact I think 8letters has already shown/proved that. It would make sense. Anyone who is squicked by anal just avoids the category, and there is really nothing major that may be included in an anal story that would polarize or otherwise put off the anal readership. Unlike the Incest crowd who do have certain no-nos that can hurt your score. Stick it in her poop chute, make sure she likes it, and collect your 5s.

Actually, Anal does poorly. In general, the story rating goes up as the page count increases, and Anal stories tend to be one or two pages.

Do you want all stories or stand-alone stories? Do you want the rating after one day, one week, one month, or one year? (Story rating tends to rise over time).

Anyway, here's all stories after 28 days from 8/30/23 to 4/24/24:

SF&F is #1.

On the other hand, if you want to know which category you're more likely to get a really high rating in:

Letters & Transcripts is the top category.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Valid observation. The sense I get - a least from the AH chatter - is several authors who care about the quality of their submissions and quality of reader engagement avoid the category for the vitriol it engenders.

Not me. I just have not had a decent story come to mind. I personally like the crowd and get decent results. My highest and lowest score was on LW. You have to offer the right thing. Many authors think "I wrote a a good story, one I wanted to tell and in the way I want to tell it. I should be appreciated." Sorry your story might be fine for you but has to hit the readership in order to be appreciated. Sad fact but true. Look at anything in life, from McDonald's to coca cola. They tried to put a product out that consumers did not want. And it cost them.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Valid observation. The sense I get - a least from the AH chatter - is several authors who care about the quality of their submissions and quality of reader engagement avoid the category for the vitriol it engenders.

In a continuation of my earlier statement. The key is understanding what the consumer (here the reader) wants. You can't force your idea down their throats. The 'new' Coke formula had the same sugar content, caffeine etc as the old but nobody wanted it. They went back to Coke Classic.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Quality of writing/storytelling is the smallest factor determining score, so highly doubt that.

That is the problem you don;t understand. What is 'quality'? Overly descriptive prose? Worked for Dickens. LW readers want something different and UNLIKE what many here on AH think it is not just violent destruction of a cheating wife. Even reconciliation stories are acceptable IF it is justified.
You gotta offer the 'taste'. I personally tend to not be violent in my stories (I did in one recently where the cheating asshole got his nuts smashed) yet overall, my scores are good. I offer the main character his dignity. He ends with a sense of justice.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I'll wager, with some evidence, that a good number of LW authors have shifted their offerings to Fetish, which now has a much higher percentage of cuck interest. I suspect many got tired of both the lower scoring and the increasingly virulent commentary in LW.

Yep, put the cuck content where it belongs. I read it there and approve if it is a decently written tale. If it is still crap, it does not get my approval.

 

[Actingup]

You can't force your idea down their throats.

What? Don’t we have a category for that?

 

[Gamblnluck]

My theory is that the reduction in story quality is due to two major reasons.

1. I'd say that in recent years, many decent authors have moved to paying platforms such as Amazon, Smashwords, etc. Some platforms such as Patreon, which has become increasingly popular for creators of all kinds of content, didn't even exist until 2013 or 2014? I'll guess that it took a couple of years before some authors decided to shift to that commercial model. It could be that overall, decent authors publish less on Literotica than they used to a decade ago?

2. There are far more daily submissions to Lit than ten or fifteen years ago. I see so many new authors who keep producing these 1k-word stories and chapters and who create an illusion that there are so many new stories to sift through. In truth, there are fewer stories but a lot more noise in the shape of these... attempts, shall we call them.

I actually thought about moving my stories as well. EXCEPT for one thing. I refuse to pay for a story.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think there is too much hand-wringing about getting 1-bombed in LW, since with average scores hovering around the mid-3 range, for every 1-bomb you would expect another 5 rating. Stories are more likely being 3-bombed, with quite a few 4s thrown in as well. Why other categories aren’t 3-bombed as much is a good question.

Totally agree. If you write "hot wife" style stories in Loving Wives, which is the type of story the category originally was meant for, you're going to get bombed as sure as the sun rises. But everybody will. It doesn't matter. There are still plenty of readers who like those stories. The problem is people get wedded to that silly red H and it freaks them out that their LW story scores are so low. Mine are low, too. So what?

 

[mirafrida]

Many authors think "I wrote a a good story, one I wanted to tell and in the way I want to tell it. I should be appreciated." Sorry your story might be fine for you but has to hit the readership in order to be appreciated. Sad fact but true. Look at anything in life, from McDonald's to coca cola. They tried to put a product out that consumers did not want. And it cost them.

But if I don't enjoy McDonalds, I simply eat at a different restaurant. I don't contest the right of McDonalds to exist in my neighborhood, nor paint obscene graffiti on the building. I feel like that's the difference.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I actually thought about moving my stories as well. EXCEPT for one thing. I refuse to pay for a story.

Oh, I don't mind paying for a story, except that they are all so overpriced. Browsing the Amazon stories with a femdom theme, for example, I see plenty of them priced at 5-8$ for about 10-15k words? From the point of view of a reader, that's far too much considering the prices of, say, mainstream novel-sized stories in whatever format, written by accomplished authors. A reader is supposed to pay like 10 times the price of a mainstream novel, just because it's smut? That's bullshit.

On the other hand, from the point of view of the author, I understand why they want to put such high prices. The number of stories they sell is orders of magnitude lower than that of mainstream novels so they are just trying to earn something. They just want to make it worth their while too. I get that. But as a reader, I would feel silly buying them. I mean no offense towards all the authors who have their stories on Amazon and Smashwords and such; I am just being honest.

Curiously, it's the same situation when it comes to erotic games. Those are also ridiculously overpriced compared to mainstream games, and again for the same reason. Their Patreon models for example are absurd from my point of view.

The only reasonable model I've seen from the point of view of a reader is the one that Tefler uses/used. He has built a large following and has pulled plenty of readers into the world he created, the world he already invested millions of words in. What he does is offer a chapter of one of his long series - a chapter of typically about 20-30k words, for a dollar. From the point of view of a reader, it's fair to invest a buck for a chapter of that size, and from his own point of view that's also fine as he gets about 7k $ per chapter or so. It's the only win-win I've seen.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

That is the problem you don;t understand. What is 'quality'? Overly descriptive prose? Worked for Dickens. LW readers want something different and UNLIKE what many here on AH think it is not just violent destruction of a cheating wife. Even reconciliation stories are acceptable IF it is justified.
You gotta offer the 'taste'. I personally tend to not be violent in my stories (I did in one recently where the cheating asshole got his nuts smashed) yet overall, my scores are good. I offer the main character his dignity. He ends with a sense of justice.

What do I not understand? Define quality any way that you like it. The readership on lit defines it as something that they agree with, something that gets them off, something that matches their fantasy - and their fantasy usually has no plot, certainly no conflict - which anyone who actually knows anything about writing knows is not quality. That's okay. As writers we just have to deal with that and not fool ourselves into thinking that great scores means that we are writing well. There are countless stories here 4.75 and up that are very poorly written.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Actually, Anal does poorly.

Oops, sorry not sure why I recall anal scoring well.

 

[Comshaw]

What do I not understand? Define quality any way that you like it. The readership on lit defines it as something that they agree with, something that gets them off, something that matches their fantasy - and their fantasy usually has no plot, certainly no conflict - which anyone who actually knows anything about writing knows is not quality. That's okay. As writers we just have to deal with that and not fool ourselves into thinking that great scores means that we are writing well. There are countless stories here 4.75 and up that are very poorly written.

Horse patooties! You consistently insist that most of the stories here are poorly written, but never explain by what criteria you are judging them. Personally, I think it's your own narrow, biased, fabricated set of ego-driven standards that don't match anything in reality. We all have a standard, but it is like opinions and anuses, everyone has one, but some stink worse than others.

You also seem to believe that writing an erotic story that has a major aim of titillating the reader's libido isn't really "good writing". There are literally thousands of stories on this site that have plots, that have conflict that do what any good story does, engage the reader to a point where they get lost in the tale. But you ignore all those to tag ALL OF THEM as poorly written trash, except your own of course.

Scores do tell us how good a story is IF you allow the ones who are the aim of the whole thing their voice, the reader. It doesn't matter what you think, or what I think or what some feakin' manual says you have to do to write a good story. If the readers enjoy it and the majority vote high, then it is a good story because it did what it was designed to do, entertain the reader. I've seen this with movies a lot. The critics pan a movie and insist it's trash, yet the audience loves it and it becomes a hit. Everyone can think of at least two or three movies that have done this. So critics be damned as far as I'm concerned.

I've been a motorcycle rider for 60 years. And consistently over those 60 years I've been told, "Why the hell are you riding that POS? You need to get a real bike (a Harley of course) otherwise you ain't no real biker." And I smile as I start my Yamaha or Honda or Triumph or Vespa or whatever piece of two-wheel machinery I'm on at the time and ride off. I don't really give a crap who thinks I'm not a "biker" because every one of those people are talking out their ego orifice. And it has as much substance as a fart in the wind. The same goes here.

You have every right to your opinion, but you never voice it as an opinion but as a fact. It ain't no fact lessen you have proof to back it up and you have never offered that, which is why I repeat what I said to begin with: Horse Patooties!

Comshaw

 

[SimonDoom]

No, I don't buy that quality writing helps you more in any category except probably N/N a bit.

Remember kids: the score (regardless of category) is really only an indicator of how much the readership agrees with your story. If you told it the way that they wanted to hear it, you will generally score well. If you tell them something that was outside of their hopes, your score will generally suffer.

As usual, I think there's something to what you stay, but you overgeneralize. Writing quality DEFINITELY plays a role in getting a higher score. I've read enough stories here in the last 20 years that I'm extremely confident of that. That's not to say it's a perfect, or even especially strong, correlation. I sometimes read stories that have scores well over 4.7 and wonder, WTF? But if I were to read 100 stories with a 4.8 and 100 stories with a 4.3 I would be extremely confident that the "literary quality" of the 4.8 stories would be on average significantly better than that of the 4.3 stories. And that by itself is sufficient to say "Quality matters, but it's not the only thing, and for some it's not the most important thing." That's a much more accurate statement about taste at Literotica than saying "quality doesn't matter." Your idea of quality may differ from mine, but I'll bet if you took the story-reading test I suggested you would largely agree with me. We'll never know, so these conversations go on and on.

None of this has really much of anything to do with your quality of prose, flow, structure, plot, motive, character development, description or immersion or heaven forbid theme. Very few of the readers here even know what those things are. Now this sounds like I'm putting down the readership. I'm not. I'm just being real. As writers here we just have to accept that it's a porn site and it's a porn crowd and that's the reality of it. Even Simon (one of the most highly literate members of our forum) admits that he writes primarily to get people off and when he reads here (the key point being here on lit) he reads primarily for titilation (his words). I won't speak for Simon but he is probably willing to give a piece of mediocre calibre writing a 5 if it was fun to read and satisfied his urges, or whatever, because he agrees that for the most part a story here should foremost be more or less titlating.

Again, this overstates the case. I write erotic stories. That's what I want to read here and it's what I want to write. I don't read non-erotic stories at this Site. I don't want to read very long stories that happen to have sex in them but are mostly about something else. I go elsewhere for that. Here, I read and write sex stories. But literary quality matters to me. For me, good prose makes a story sexier. So do good punctuation, and good grammar, and snappy, well-honed dialogue, and artful descriptions, and consistency in tense and point of view, and some thought given to why characters do what they do. These things titillate me, if you want to use that word. For me, whether I'm reading or writing an erotic story, sexiness and good art aren't two separate things. Lesbian sex doesn't interest me much, but some of the better writers here write those stories, and I'd rather read them and would be much more inclined to praise them than I would a sloppily written mom-son or hot wife story.

One area where I think my taste DOES depart from that of some of my writer peers here is the subject of length and character development. I think they're overrated by some in erotic short stories. A truly superb "literary" short story can be 3000 words and have no character development to speak of. That's part of the beauty of a short story, as opposed to a novel (I'm generally not interested in reading novels here, which isn't because I don't like them). A short story can be truly great art just by capturing a mood, or a scene, or a sex act, in relatively few, but well chosen, words. I like compression and excision and blank spaces. Sometimes, for me, the art (as well as the "hot" quality) is better if stuff is left out.

The way you have to look at it, IMO, is that there are multiple currents of taste flowing at once. Quality matters, but in a particular story it may be outweighed by a particularly hot, kinky concept. The tastes here are varied, and I think one has to be careful about generalizing about them (other than to say that they are varied, a generalization I will stand by).

 

[Actingup]

Thanks for all the replies in the thread! This is just a curiosity. Page 5311 of a descending score sort of all stories, at story 265544 of the search results, is where we slip from 'Hot' to 'Not Hot'. I'll withhold comment on the difference between Gangsta's Paradise and Breed Me, Daddy.... https://search.literotica.com/?query= &page=5311&sort=vote

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Horse patooties! You consistently insist that most of the stories here are poorly written, but never explain by what criteria you are judging them.

Stop right there. I've said many many many times. The rest of your encyclopedic article is hereby ignored.