Would this count as incest and should I rewrite?

[uveb27]

Does voyeurism count as incest if it's a sister secretly watching her brother have sex, and would this be off-putting to non-incest readers?

I'm currently writing a story, and am suddenly worried that it might get shoved into the incest category or turn off other readers, which isn't my intent, so I'm not sure if I should change the plot.

Basic plot summary as currently written:

In a medieval fantasy kingdom, an uptight and prudish princess who has been taught to suppress her desires is frustrated that she has to stay a virgin until she is married, while her brother can go around getting the servant girls pregnant and nobody cares. One day, she happens to come across her brother having sex with two girls, and secretly watches. All her repressed urges and resentments bubble up, and afterwards she runs over to the stables and has sex with a pair of stable hands, resulting in her getting pregnant and spoiling her marriage prospects.

Would this count as incest? Would a sister watching her brother have sex be too squick for readers of other categories?

At no point is the FMC ever attracted to her brother and she doesn't have any sexual thoughts about his body. She disapproves of his lifestyle while secretly wishing to emulate it, and watching him in action causes this to boil over. She does get aroused while watching the sex, but not due to her brother specifically. I was planning on submitting it as SF/Fantasy or possibly Fetish (since there are strong breeding kink overtones).

I want to know before I go any further if this plot is problematic. I'd prefer to rewrite it than have it categorized as incest, as it's not really the purpose of the story and I think readers of incest stories want a bit more in any case. If I have to, I'll rewrite it to be someone other than her brother that she watches, or come up with some other way to have her sexual frustration boil over, but it's less convenient for the plot resolution since it's her brother's ability to have sex with whoever he wants that is part of her initial internal conflict. I might shelve it if it doesn't work out, rather than submit it as incest.

Thoughts?

 

[Rob_Royale]

I would not think of that as incest.

 

[purplelavendar]

Does voyeurism count as incest if it's a sister secretly watching her brother have sex, and would this be off-putting to non-incest readers?

I'm currently writing a story, and am suddenly worried that it might get shoved into the incest category or turn off other readers, which isn't my intent, so I'm not sure if I should change the plot.

Basic plot summary as currently written:

In a medieval fantasy kingdom, an uptight and prudish princess who has been taught to suppress her desires is frustrated that she has to stay a virgin until she is married, while her brother can go around getting the servant girls pregnant and nobody cares. One day, she happens to come across her brother having sex with two girls, and secretly watches. All her repressed urges and resentments bubble up, and afterwards she runs over to the stables and has sex with a pair of stable hands, resulting in her getting pregnant and spoiling her marriage prospects.

Would this count as incest? Would a sister watching her brother have sex be too squick for readers of other categories?

At no point is the FMC ever attracted to her brother and she doesn't have any sexual thoughts about his body. She disapproves of his lifestyle while secretly wishing to emulate it, and watching him in action causes this to boil over. She does get aroused while watching the sex, but not due to her brother specifically. I was planning on submitting it as SF/Fantasy or possibly Fetish (since there are strong breeding kink overtones).

I want to know before I go any further if this plot is problematic. I'd prefer to rewrite it than have it categorized as incest, as it's not really the purpose of the story and I think readers of incest stories want a bit more in any case. If I have to, I'll rewrite it to be someone other than her brother that she watches, or come up with some other way to have her sexual frustration boil over, but it's less convenient for the plot resolution since it's her brother's ability to have sex with whoever he wants that is part of her initial internal conflict. I might shelve it if it doesn't work out, rather than submit it as incest.

Thoughts?

"When in Doubt, Edit Out"

I think you could change their relationship and so there's no way it comes close to incest. What if they were children of Lords and have grown up closely with one another. You could explore gender dynamics/expectations where the male character gets to do what he wants, where the female character is oppressed in her sexuality. This way they have a "brother-sister" like relationship but are nothing more than family friends!

 

[RejectReality]

Readers in Sci-Fi&Fantasy are fairly tolerant of most kinks. A warning at the beginning would be a good idea. Those are heeded in the category for the most part.

Laurel is unlikely to move it. There was discussion about the nature of the category at the start of the crackdown on Incest and Non-Con, and she agreed that the category ( and non-human/EH ) are genre categories that naturally encompass a lot of kinks and the readers expect this. So you really have to go over the top to the point where the story isn't about the setting any longer, but rather about the incest.

 

[alohadave]

My series Mom Watches is a similar scenario where a mom watches her daughter having sex, then the daughter watching mom. All four parts are in Exhibition/Voyeur and they've done well. No one has said anything negative about the incest angle

 

[Djmac1031]

I think you'll be fine in SF/F or even Fetish.

As long as she's not obsessing over the size of his dick or imagining it's her he's fucking.

Write it the way that feels best. If it puts off a few readers, so be it.

Given the context you've provided, I think most readers would accept it

 

[madelinemasoch]

My initial response would have been "yes, it would be off-putting to me, a non-incestuous reader" but after reading it's about a fantasy princess, I think it works.

 

[KeithD]

Voyeurism is a sex act. If one sibling gets aroused by watching another one having sex, that would be an act of incest, yes.

 

[MajorRewrite]

If it was a randy young noble instead of her brother, it would of course open the door to the two of them fucking (after they’ve exhausted the rest of the castle).

Hmm … now I have an urge to re-read Fool by Christopher Moore. Heinous fuckery!

 

[MediocreAuthor]

This has been an age old question.

"Is my story X featuring Y? Or Y featuring X?"

In this case, I definitely feel that this is Fantasy featuring incest, not the other way around. (especially considering there's not technically any incest, only incestuous allure)

A while back I wrote what I considered to be an NC/R story featuring Fantasy, but several commenters argued that it would have been received better as Fantasy featuring NC/R.
¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

It's always a toss up, but considering that your story technically has no actual incest, my opinion stands as is.

You have to ask yourself what the primary GOAL/THEME of the story is. And then act accordingly.

Lastly, tags and disclaimers are incredibly useful tools in gathering the right crowd and warning away the wrong ones.

 

[SimonDoom]

I wouldn't regard this as incest. Although the sister arguably commits an act of voyeurism, she is not moved by lust for her brother. Instead, she's inspired to do what he does. The appeal of the scene is not an incestuous appeal. It's not like sister spying on brother in the shower and getting turned on.

Sci Fi/Fantasy sounds like the right place for it based on the described setting. I agree with those who say it's a fairly permissive category so it should be at home there.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I wouldn't regard this as incest. Although the sister arguably commits an act of voyeurism, she is not moved by lust for her brother. Instead, she's inspired to do what he does. The appeal of the scene is not an incestuous appeal. It's not like sister spying on brother in the shower and getting turned on.

Sci Fi/Fantasy sounds like the right place for it based on the described setting. I agree with those who say it's a fairly permissive category so it should be at home there.

I agree... Although I think you can easily adjust the "incest slider" by changing how much the sister focuses on her brother.

If you want to stay further away from incest, you can have her focus the arousal she's receiving by witnessing the actions, and you can highlight her indignation about his fornication being allowed while hers is forbidden.

If you want to stray closer to incest, you could have her focus more on the physical attractiveness of his body, and how around she is being turned on by his sexuality.

Of course, neither of these are technically incest, but if she's fantasizing about sex with him and relieving tension by having sex with the stable hands... that's far closer to incest than the former.

 

[LexxRuthless]

I'd be curious to read what @Laurel would have to say on the subject. Ultimately, she will read your story and decide what category would be appropriate.

 

[lovecraft68]

Voyeurism is a sex act. If one sibling gets aroused by watching another one having sex, that would be an act of incest, yes.

Technically yes, but in a category where the vast majority of the stories feature sexual encounters between family, its pretty weak. and the score and comments will reflect that.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'd be curious to read what @Laurel would have to say on the subject. Ultimately, she will read your story and decide what category would be appropriate.

She has no time to read, its a minimal skim at best, and I think if the author picks E/V or fetish I don't see her catching anything strong enough to move it.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I would say no, not incest, and it's up to you to write it or not.

Does voyeurism count as incest if it's a sister secretly watching her brother have sex, and would this be off-putting to non-incest readers?

I'm currently writing a story, and am suddenly worried that it might get shoved into the incest category or turn off other readers, which isn't my intent, so I'm not sure if I should change the plot.

Basic plot summary as currently written:

In a medieval fantasy kingdom, an uptight and prudish princess who has been taught to suppress her desires is frustrated that she has to stay a virgin until she is married, while her brother can go around getting the servant girls pregnant and nobody cares. One day, she happens to come across her brother having sex with two girls, and secretly watches. All her repressed urges and resentments bubble up, and afterwards she runs over to the stables and has sex with a pair of stable hands, resulting in her getting pregnant and spoiling her marriage prospects.

Would this count as incest? Would a sister watching her brother have sex be too squick for readers of other categories?

At no point is the FMC ever attracted to her brother and she doesn't have any sexual thoughts about his body. She disapproves of his lifestyle while secretly wishing to emulate it, and watching him in action causes this to boil over. She does get aroused while watching the sex, but not due to her brother specifically. I was planning on submitting it as SF/Fantasy or possibly Fetish (since there are strong breeding kink overtones).

I want to know before I go any further if this plot is problematic. I'd prefer to rewrite it than have it categorized as incest, as it's not really the purpose of the story and I think readers of incest stories want a bit more in any case. If I have to, I'll rewrite it to be someone other than her brother that she watches, or come up with some other way to have her sexual frustration boil over, but it's less convenient for the plot resolution since it's her brother's ability to have sex with whoever he wants that is part of her initial internal conflict. I might shelve it if it doesn't work out, rather than submit it as incest.

Thoughts?

 

[Britva415]

Voyeurism is a sex act. If one sibling gets aroused by watching another one having sex, that would be an act of incest, yes.

I don't agree.

It's incestuous, but it's not incest.

 

[Euphony]

A while back I wrote what I considered to be an NC/R story featuring Fantasy, but several commenters argued that it would have been received better as Fantasy featuring NC/R.
¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

THAT ol' chicken or the egg.

 

[KeithD]

I don't agree.

It's incestuous, but it's not incest.

Is that the same as "sort of pregnant"? We'll have to disagree. I don't care if the story would be placed somewhere else other than "Incest," but the world or erotica takes a far more inclusive view of incest than science tends to. The marketplace would consider a sexual relationship with a step-parent as incestuous, for instance. In this case, voyeur being a sex act, a sister watching a brother having sex and being aroused by it means she's having a sexual experience with her brother. Voyeur is a sex act. She's sexually aroused by viewing it. She's being sexually aroused by her brother. Sexual experience with her brother. It wouldn't pass an Amazon "no incest" test.

 

[yukonnights]

Here's a dictionary definition of incest:

incest | noun — sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other. • the crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild.

IMO: What the OP described is voyeurism.

There's a big difference in "taking a peek" & "taking a poke".

 

[KeithD]

Not in published erotica, a point I've already made. But do as you like; I don't care.

 

[MillieDynamite]

You publish stepfather, stepmother, and step-siblings at Amazon and Smashwords. And Smashwords distributes to all vendors. It may be frowned upon, but they sell it.

Not in published erotica, a point I've already made. But do as you like; I don't care.

 

[KeithD]

You publish stepfather, stepmother, and step-siblings at Amazon and Smashwords. And Smashwords distributes to all vendors. It may be frowned upon, but they sell it.

Um, no I don't.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I didn't say you did. I said, or thought it was obvious that meant, Amazon and other retailers might frown on the pseudo incest but they publish it.

Um, no I don't.

 

[uveb27]

Thanks everyone who replied, this discussion has been helpful. I think I am going to keep the characters as siblings, but reduce the prominence of this specific scene and make it less explicit and voyeuristic. I'll probably submit the story as SF/F.