When you can't "see" a character

[MrPixel]

Gosh. There's been a whole bunch of chatter since I started this post. You guys are a hard act to keep up with! Anyway:

It's probably a lot easier for women to describe a woman's outfit than for a man. Most of us have no clue other than we enjoy looking at them lol.

Speak for yourself.

I get a kick out of describing FCs' apparel proximate to sexy scenes, not necessarily dwelling on fine details but key features as setups for the scene. Examples:

• "Black leather zipper-slit pencil miniskirt with a filmy blouse". Teasing exhibitionism - prelude to upzipping skirt to near waistline to show side cheek, and sheer blouse more than hinting at nipple, unbuttoned scandalously low to display lack of tan line;
• "Shirred-top babydoll dress". Anticipates MC's surprise removal of same;
• "Short flouncy cotton dress". The better for flashing due to sudden wind gusts;
• "Flattering princess-line sheath". Emphasizing youthful figure shortly before removal thereof;
• "Jeans and a tee". Usually a setup for teasing physical play, characterizing the FC as "boyish"; and
• "String-tie bikini". Zero to nude in milliseconds.

In many cases these various setups also hopefully impart a bit of the person's appearance and/or personality - in order: self-aware/sensuous, cute/adorable, cute/teasing, serious/passionate, playful peer to the MC, and last... well... duh.

 

[Djmac1031]

Gosh. There's been a whole bunch of chatter since I started this post. You guys are a hard act to keep up with! Anyway:



Speak for yourself.

I get a kick out of describing FCs' apparel proximate to sexy scenes, not necessarily dwelling on fine details but key features as setups for the scene. Examples:

• "Black leather zipper-slit pencil miniskirt with a filmy blouse". Teasing exhibitionism - prelude to upzipping skirt to near waistline to show side cheek, and sheer blouse more than hinting at nipple, unbuttoned scandalously low to display lack of tan line;
• "Shirred-top babydoll dress". Anticipates MC's surprise removal of same;
• "Short flouncy cotton dress". The better for flashing due to sudden wind gusts;
• "Flattering princess-line sheath". Emphasizing youthful figure shortly before removal thereof;
• "Jeans and a tee". Usually a setup for teasing physical play, characterizing the FC as "boyish"; and
• "String-tie bikini". Zero to nude in milliseconds.

In many cases these various setups also hopefully impart a bit of the person's appearance and/or personality - in order: self-aware/sensuous, cute/adorable, cute/teasing, serious/passionate, playful peer to the MC, and last... well... duh.

I get exactly what you're saying.

And agree 100%.

But god, I still hate WRITING outfits.

I think it stems from the first time I really had to.

I wrote a scene in my series The Jenna Arrangement where Jenna and her best friend Trish go clothes shopping and model various outfits for the MMC Tom.

And suddenly I was faced with the task of actually having to describe not just one article of woman's clothing in great detail, but several.

Picking outfits was easy; quick internet search on dresses etc.

DESCRIBING them was the challenge.

I cheated by using a lot of words in the descriptions for the dresses I looked up; online stores are great for that.

Still, it's not the easiest thing for me. And I've also sometimes found myself over compensating by going into too much detail.

It's a balancing act for sure.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

It's not work. It's what most readers do anyway. If you overdescribe, you risk conflicting with their own imagery. Yes, you have to distinguish the characters and set a general type that fits what you want the character to be, but that can be done with a few details while leaving most of the specifics to the reader's imagination. You couldn't put the picture in their heads if you tried -- that's not how it works; that's not how any of this works -- you give them enough for them to build a picture from that is their version of what you want your character to be.

Then the reader can write their own story with their own characters. Where does it end? Their own setting? Their own plot? A reader sits down to read, not write. As a writer you are there to express your imagination to the reader. If you only give hazy outlines, you're not sending the reader on a journey.

Imagine visiting a foreign city and hiring a tour guide and instead of the guide showing you all the hottest interesting spots he says , "Meh, just have a look down thattaway and kinda see something". Then you say, "Well I wanted to see the Eiffel Tower. Is that it right there?" and he says "Yeah sure, if you want."

If you are the writer, you are the tour guide. Show the sights. Yes, it's work. It's your job.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I get exactly what you're saying.

And agree 100%.

But god, I still hate WRITING outfits.

I think it stems from the first time I really had to.

I wrote a scene in my series The Jenna Arrangement where Jenna and her best friend Trish go clothes shopping and model various outfits for the MMC Tom.

And suddenly I was faced with the task of actually having to describe not just one article of woman's clothing in great detail, but several.

Picking outfits was easy; quick internet search on dresses etc.

DESCRIBING them was the challenge.

I cheated by using a lot of words in the descriptions for the dresses I looked up; online stores are great for that.

Still, it's not the easiest thing for me. And I've also sometimes found myself over compensating by going into too much detail.

It's a balancing act for sure.

Spoilers, hun!!!

Em

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Going to respectfully disagree. Although I get your point, especially in stories with larger casts. We need to be able to tell characters apart.

But there's also a case to be made for the "less is more" approach. I suppose in the end, it depends on the story for me.

It's not always important in general fiction literature to describe every detail of a character. Main characters should be fairly fleshed out, lesser characters, not so much.

But this is erotica. The physical attraction of two (or more) people is an intrinsic theme. I fully stand by my stance that letting a reader fill in the physical flesh of your main characters in an erotic story is a cop out.

 

[Djmac1031]

Spoilers, hun!!!

Em

Catch up, darlin'

 

[EmilyMiller]

Catch up, darlin'

<pout>

 

[M_K_Babalon]

So, you don't see a person on tv or the street and think, damn... that's my character description? Is that just me? Ok...

I have a hard time thinking up clothes descriptions so I go to a website and look at pictures for that.

When I read a story, if there isn't a clear description of a character within the first few pages I create an image in my mind and then get mad when the writer adds descriptions that don't match up with mine.

Clothing is probably more my problem. Then there's not everybody knows what a type of clothing is, or the many variations of it, and I'm not expecting readers to google this specific camisole blouse I found on Poshmark, to know exactly what she's wearing.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

It's fun for you because you're not a guy. We don't care about clothes. We just see through them. I know, "pants", "shorts",
"jeans", "t-shirt", and if I'm stretching, mabye "blouse".

OTOH, bras, panties, I can write those.

That's not all of us. Maybe the most generic sitcom character guy. I care to some extent on what I wear. Colors, though, most of the time red is red and green is green, ultra specific tones can be too tedious. Unless I'm trying to make a certain point, then the lingerie is crimson, not just red.

"Red, Charlie! Red‽ These are not red, red is the color of hot water bottles!"

 

[M_K_Babalon]

It's not always important in general fiction literature to describe every detail of a character. Main characters should be fairly fleshed out, lesser characters, not so much.

But this is erotica. The physical attraction of two (or more) people is an intrinsic theme. I fully stand by my stance that letting a reader fill in the physical flesh of your main characters in an erotic story is a cop out.

There's a difference in giving enough detail that the readers can form their own picture, than doing the bare minimum to nothing at all, or just flat out saying she looks like Kat Dennings. One doesn't need to paint the entire picture and some readers don't even like that. Then it's just how it's done and what gives or could give away. Like if I wrote a character that said she was a cheerleader, or worked at hooters, one has a general idea of what she looks like by either of those. Some discriptors are only as important as you wanna make them. Eye color doesn't really matter to everybody, it doesn't matter if she has braces unless you find it attractive, like I do(note to self, write woman with braces), or glasses. Well... I take some of that back, kinda. Guess it depends on how much you're building and kinda flesh out. I like to say mine are fairly detailed vague discriptions, sometimes.

 

[Cagivagurl]

So I'm experiencing an interesting conundrum while writing a new story idea.

I have a pretty good handle on the plot; what I want to happen, the conflicts, the resolution.

I also know my two main characters personalities pretty well; who I want them to be.

My problem is... I'm not SEEING them. Physically. Especially my female lead.

Is she tall? Short? Slim? Curvy? Petite?

What color are her eyes? Her hair?

I'm not even sure how big her boobs are yet lol.

I think part of my problem is I'm trying too hard not to borrow from characters I've already created, not to repeat myself, or make her too similar to them.

I've worked around this in the past by keeping physical descriptions to a bare minimum with Chloe in The White Room. And many readers complimented me on letting them form their own vision of her in their heads.

For this new story though, I think I'm gonna need more than just a vague description, especially since the first part will be about her and the male lead loosing their virginity together. It's told from his POV and I think he'd wanna relay more details than "she had nice breasts."

I think my solution for now is to simply write it vague and get the story out.

Perhaps she will form more clearly in my head as I do that, and I can always go back and add more details.

Curious if anyone else has this issue sometimes, and how you resolve it.

I'm not really the right person to offer advice.
However, here goes, for what it's worth...
My stories start with a little glimmer of an idea...
I start writing, and at some point. The characters evolve, walk out of the shadows.
I get to the little opening. "I looked into her beautiful emerald green eyes."
I didn't know that until I had to write something...
They evolve at different points.
It's never an info dump, where I totally describe my character. It appears in little glimpses throughout the story...
That's my method... Not saying it's right, or that it's for everybody.
Where you are, it might work for you????
Just a thought.

Cagivagurl.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I'm not really the right person to offer advice.
However, here goes, for what it's worth...
My stories start with a little glimmer of an idea...
I start writing, and at some point. The characters evolve, walk out of the shadows.
I get to the little opening. "I looked into her beautiful emerald green eyes."
I didn't know that until I had to write something...
They evolve at different points.
It's never an info dump, where I totally describe my character. It appears in little glimpses throughout the story...
That's my method... Not saying it's right, or that it's for everybody.
Where you are, it might work for you????
Just a thought.

Cagivagurl.

That's kinda my method, too. Characters kinda describe each other and theirselves in a way, more so, than the narration.

 

[Djmac1031]

I'm not really the right person to offer advice.
However, here goes, for what it's worth...
My stories start with a little glimmer of an idea...
I start writing, and at some point. The characters evolve, walk out of the shadows.
I get to the little opening. "I looked into her beautiful emerald green eyes."
I didn't know that until I had to write something...
They evolve at different points.
It's never an info dump, where I totally describe my character. It appears in little glimpses throughout the story...
That's my method... Not saying it's right, or that it's for everybody.
Where you are, it might work for you????
Just a thought.

Cagivagurl.

It's a very GOOD thought.

And in many cases, that's the way I approach it.

And how ill probably handle it here. Just write, see what forms from it.

 

[ronde]

So I'm experiencing an interesting conundrum while writing a new story idea.

I have a pretty good handle on the plot; what I want to happen, the conflicts, the resolution.

I also know my two main characters personalities pretty well; who I want them to be.

My problem is... I'm not SEEING them. Physically. Especially my female lead.

Is she tall? Short? Slim? Curvy? Petite?

What color are her eyes? Her hair?

I'm not even sure how big her boobs are yet lol.

I think part of my problem is I'm trying too hard not to borrow from characters I've already created, not to repeat myself, or make her too similar to them.

I've worked around this in the past by keeping physical descriptions to a bare minimum with Chloe in The White Room. And many readers complimented me on letting them form their own vision of her in their heads.

For this new story though, I think I'm gonna need more than just a vague description, especially since the first part will be about her and the male lead loosing their virginity together. It's told from his POV and I think he'd wanna relay more details than "she had nice breasts."

I think my solution for now is to simply write it vague and get the story out.

Perhaps she will form more clearly in my head as I do that, and I can always go back and add more details.

Curious if anyone else has this issue sometimes, and how you resolve it.

Sometimes, less can be more, but a way I've found helpful to flesh out a character is to go to where lots of people are, like a local mall or some sort of community celebration. I promise you'll see a huge range of body types and facial features. You can also speculate on personality at a mall. Why would an obviously over 60 woman go into Victoria's Secret? Why is that young woman looking at the men's clothing at Belks? Why would a single guy be tasting wine samples at a local vineyard?

Just don't go to Walmart, well, unless you're writing something that's pretty weird.

 

[JGittes]

.........

You can also speculate on personality at a mall. Why would an obviously over 60 woman go into Victoria's Secret? Why is that young woman looking at the men's clothing at Belks? Why would a single guy be tasting wine samples at a local vineyard?

Just don't go to Walmart, well, unless you're writing something that's pretty weird.

You've already got me thinking about how those three people are related. I don't need any further physical description to be completely involved in how they might interact.

 

[onehitwanda]

like @Cagivagurl I often tease out the descriptions.

She had sharp cheekbones and a narrow face; if I hadn't seen her smiling I'd have automatically classified her as “stuck up” or “haughty.”

I was glad I'd seen her smiling.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

When I read a story, if there isn't a clear description of a character within the first few pages I create an image in my mind and then get mad when the writer adds descriptions that don't match up with mine.

I believe most readers embrace characters in a story based upon who they are rather than what they look like.

I develop the persona of my characters first. Are they smart, sassy, aloof, arrogant, brave, obnoxious... etc. Then, it is through their interactions with other characters that their physical description will come to light. With the other characters revealing their impressions, if done right, the physical description credit/blame is transferred in most cases from the writer (the narrative) to the other character(s) (dialog) in the story. It becomes less how the author sees the character and more how others see them.

Now, with most of my sexual content, I do set the scene and then let the readers create their own image of what transpires. I've been called a "tease" by several readers who praised this approach to erotica.

 

[Cagivagurl]

like @Cagivagurl I often tease out the descriptions.

Oh my goodness gracious....
I'm mortified.... Mortified I say.
You called me... Oh, the shame. I can hardly bare to say it....
A description tease...
I mean... Really

Cagivagurl

 

[nice90sguy]

It's fun for you because you're not a guy. We don't care about clothes. We just see through them. I know, "pants", "shorts",
"jeans", "t-shirt", and if I'm stretching, mabye "blouse".

OTOH, bras, panties, I can write those.

Clothes feature a lot in my descriptions. They're a great way of describing a person's character, (or the charater they're trying to project).

I "research" women's clothes a lot when I'm writing. Men's clothes too.

 

[AchtungNight]

Authors who write about celebrities rarely have this problem. [pauses as he remembers how much his favorite actresses undergo wardrobe changes and how a secret fantasy woman with a thousand faces is playing them all]

Crap!

 

[Mr_Neb]

I dunno. I guess I have a different way of looking at this. I have moved away from describing my characters in illustrative ways. I'd rather let the reader envision the characters the way they want them to look. Unless the color of the character's eyes, hair, etc is germane to the plot, I leave it out. I use more subective terms like seductive, glamorous, homely, curvaceous, sultry, alluring, etc. I have long ago left out things like breast and penis size.

I guess similar with clothes although what the characters are wearing does at times mean something in my stories. If the characters are using what they are wearing to say, be seductive, then I might describe sexy clothes. The opposite would be the case if they are trying to go unnoticed.

 

[LonRivers]

So I'm experiencing an interesting conundrum while writing a new story idea.

I have a pretty good handle on the plot; what I want to happen, the conflicts, the resolution.

I also know my two main characters personalities pretty well; who I want them to be.

My problem is... I'm not SEEING them. Physically. Especially my female lead.

Is she tall? Short? Slim? Curvy? Petite?

What color are her eyes? Her hair?

I'm not even sure how big her boobs are yet lol.

I think part of my problem is I'm trying too hard not to borrow from characters I've already created, not to repeat myself, or make her too similar to them.

I've worked around this in the past by keeping physical descriptions to a bare minimum with Chloe in The White Room. And many readers complimented me on letting them form their own vision of her in their heads.

For this new story though, I think I'm gonna need more than just a vague description, especially since the first part will be about her and the male lead loosing their virginity together. It's told from his POV and I think he'd wanna relay more details than "she had nice breasts."

I think my solution for now is to simply write it vague and get the story out.

Perhaps she will form more clearly in my head as I do that, and I can always go back and add more details.

Curious if anyone else has this issue sometimes, and how you resolve it.

What I would suggest is typing into Google or another search engine certain features your character may have, and see what they come up with. "Short blonde with green eyes" and see if any picture sparks your imagination. You don't need a full body image, just the face. The body can be explained to the reader, but you have to envision them in your mind as you write. I have done this many times for my characters.

 

[Djmac1031]

What I would suggest is typing into Google or another search engine certain features your character may have, and see what they come up with. "Short blonde with green eyes" and see if any picture sparks your imagination. You don't need a full body image, just the face. The body can be explained to the reader, but you have to envision them in your mind as you write. I have done this many times for my characters.

I've actually been playing with an AI app throwing in more generic terms like "friendly" or "shy" than physical descriptions and just seeing if it spits out an image that might inspire me to use as the character.