Visualization - what's in your mind's eye?

[Lyricalli]

I recently learned that there's a name for how my brain works regarding visualization: aphantasia. What that means in my case is that I don't have mental images. And I also found out the other end of the spectrum is hyperphantasia, which is very vivid imagery in one's head.

I've never thought much of the fact that I didn't have mental images, it's just the way I am. Through the years, people around me have mentioned things they've imagined, and I sometimes mentioned that I see nothing, and we've found that interesting, but it wasn't something I looked into. Then, I stumbled over something about a week ago that named it. Cool!

There's a spectrum between aphantasia and hyperphantasia, so perhaps you see nothing, like me, or have images but not very vivid, or perhaps your images sparkle with clarity.


Today, I found myself wondering what impact that may have on the way one writes. I want to start looking back through my poetry to see how often I've used what I think of as visual imagery. I don't think I've used color very often, for instance. When I imagine a space that my poem occupies, it's in movement, it's tactile, I know where things are, but I don't visually see any of it.


YouTube apparently saw me search for aphantasia, because they suggested I watch the following video, which is a basic explanation of visualizations, discusses some ways that individuals can assess where they are on the spectrum, and I thought it was interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFeVoHnSKlE


I know the above is a lot of words to get through, but I'm curious, how does visualization work for you? Have you thought about it before? Do you see a relationship between how you visualize and how you write?

 

[29wordsforsnow]

Thanks, Lyricalli, for the interesting topic. To be honest, I think I'd sit down in the in-between on some abstract bench with some people's silhouettes around me - "contouric" if that is a place inside the spectrum. But I couldn't say if that is my imagination skill or just the 'training' by referring to visual scenes I've already seen in my life, a kind of remembering?

Would be highly interesting if it has any impact on one's ability to turn ideas or descriptions into graphic material, like drawings/paintings.

Maybe off topic, and most probably the wrong terms, but how do 'know' how to make your poetry reading sound like it does? Do you plan it in your mind, 'visualize' the sound before your inner ear, and make your voice create that sound?

 

[Lyricalli]

Thanks, Lyricalli, for the interesting topic. To be honest, I think I'd sit down in the in-between on some abstract bench with some people's silhouettes around me - "contouric" if that is a place inside the spectrum. But I couldn't say if that is my imagination skill or just the 'training' by referring to visual scenes I've already seen in my life, a kind of remembering?

Would be highly interesting if it has any impact on one's ability to turn ideas or descriptions into graphic material, like drawings/paintings.

Well, I think that seeing something before and incorporating it into your mental images would be part of imagination. I assume that a lot of mental imagery is going to come from reference points of what you already know, and the ability to imagine more or add to those images might be another piece of the puzzle? I'm taking guesses here from new and limited knowledge, since the ability of seeing something in my head is actually foreign to me.

Maybe off topic, and most probably the wrong terms, but how do 'know' how to make your poetry reading sound like it does? Do you plan it in your mind, 'visualize' the sound before your inner ear, and make your voice create that sound?

Do you mean choosing the sounds when writing poetry, or are you talking about how it sounds when actually reading it aloud? Just trying to clarify, because I'm not completely sure what you're asking here.

 

[29wordsforsnow]

Do you mean choosing the sounds when writing poetry, or are you talking about how it sounds when actually reading it aloud? Just trying to clarify, because I'm not completely sure what you're asking here.

When reading it out loud, especially when it was written by someone else.
I've seen some comments below the video you pointed to that said like their mind fills in sulence by sounds/music. So I was wondering if that is a kind of visualization too?

 

[Lyricalli]

When reading it out loud, especially when it was written by someone else.
I've seen some comments below the video you pointed to that said like their mind fills in sulence by sounds/music. So I was wondering if that is a kind of visualization too?

I don't know if I'd consider sounds or music to be a type of visualization. Perhaps a part of imagination, but not something that created a visual image in the mind.

There are some who have something called synesthesia, which is when something meant to stimulate one sense activates another. They may see colors when they hear music, for instance.

The spectrum of aphantasia to hyperphantasia. however, is focused on one's ability to see mental images... can you see an apple in your mind when you think about an apple? If you see something, how clear is that image? If someone describes something in writing, a tree or a desk or a sunset on the beach, do you see those things in your mind? Are they vague suggestions or do you see all the colors? It's different depending on where you are on the spectrum.

As a simple example, I know what red is. I know it when I see it, but if I close my eyes and try to imagine or picture the color red, I can't see it in my mind.

 

[Angeline]

This is a very interesting question you ask because I find your poems do not at all suffer for your not visualizing. I wondered about that after I saw this thread (though I've never thought of your writing as lacking visual appeal...if that's even the right way to put it) . For example, I find this poem to be strongly evocative visually as well as drawing on other senses. I know this wasn't really your question but I always think about how our abilities and different strengths play out in our poems.

But yeah I'm hyperphantasiac as you might have guessed. When I read, for example, my personal movie version is playing along in my mind's eye. My thinking is strongly visual. Sometimes I'll be visualizing something before I fall asleep and it carries right into a dream. Music is very visual in my mind's eye too, and that often leads me through poems about music.

That is not necessarily an advantage in my writing imo. Sometimes I wish I didn't have such a desire for readers to see what I see. I feel like I can go over the top with that.

You're brave. I'm kinda afraid to explore the names for how my mind works. I'm sure my kids could give a few choice examples.

Great thread Calli. Looking forward to reading more responses.

 

[Ashesh9]

I recently learned that there's a name for how my brain works regarding visualization: aphantasia. What that means in my case is that I don't have mental images. And I also found out the other end of the spectrum is hyperphantasia, which is very vivid imagery in one's head.

I've never thought much of the fact that I didn't have mental images, it's just the way I am. Through the years, people around me have mentioned things they've imagined, and I sometimes mentioned that I see nothing, and we've found that interesting, but it wasn't something I looked into. Then, I stumbled over something about a week ago that named it. Cool!

There's a spectrum between aphantasia and hyperphantasia, so perhaps you see nothing, like me, or have images but not very vivid, or perhaps your images sparkle with clarity.


Today, I found myself wondering what impact that may have on the way one writes. I want to start looking back through my poetry to see how often I've used what I think of as visual imagery. I don't think I've used color very often, for instance. When I imagine a space that my poem occupies, it's in movement, it's tactile, I know where things are, but I don't visually see any of it.


YouTube apparently saw me search for aphantasia, because they suggested I watch the following video, which is a basic explanation of visualizations, discusses some ways that individuals can assess where they are on the spectrum, and I thought it was interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFeVoHnSKlE


I know the above is a lot of words to get through, but I'm curious, how does visualization work for you? Have you thought about it before? Do you see a relationship between how you visualize and how you write?

Lyrically: in Vedanta we R taught Maya or Nature projects images onto Pure Consciousness to create the World of Shapes and Sounds and Names. Pure Consciousness or Paramatman is Pure Bliss and No Attributes.
Power of Projection is called Vikshepa
Now certain people read imaginative ppl are susceptible to Maya and Her Power of Projection or Vikshepa and see mental images dime a dozen cluttering up their minds/ subconscious on being seeded with an idea or suggestion or word.
Certain Yogis are born with Viveka or Discrimination and can resist Vikshepa or Projected images. U Lyricalli seem to be a Powerful Yogini blessed with Viveka / Discrimination and can resist Distracting images with which ordinary mortals are led astray by Maya. I believe if you meditate on a single point in the Center of your Brain or Sahasrara Chakra : U will attain Samadhi or Om TAT SAT CHIT ANAND or eternal knowledge- Consciousness-Bliss very easily. It is a state of Final Consciousness and the avowed Objective of All Rajyogis!!! Go for it!!!!

 

[Lyricalli]

This is a very interesting question you ask because I find your poems do not at all suffer for your not visualizing. I wondered about that after I saw this thread (though I've never thought of your writing as lacking visual appeal...if that's even the right way to put it) . For example, I find this poem to be strongly evocative visually as well as drawing on other senses. I know this wasn't really your question but I always think about how our abilities and different strengths play out in our poems.

But yeah I'm hyperphantasiac as you might have guessed. When I read, for example, my personal movie version is playing along in my mind's eye. My thinking is strongly visual. Sometimes I'll be visualizing something before I fall asleep and it carries right into a dream. Music is very visual in my mind's eye too, and that often leads me through poems about music.

That is not necessarily an advantage in my writing imo. Sometimes I wish I didn't have such a desire for readers to see what I see. I feel like I can go over the top with that.

Thanks for choosing one of my poems to comment on for the thread, and that one is a really good example of what I was thinking about in relation to my lack of visualization. In this one, the concept of a dance club/bar is there. I know where it's lit and where it's darker, but don't think to mention if the lights are flashing, if there's a disco ball, or other things that might create additional atmosphere.

I don't know that it would make my writing any better, but I feel like it would have to change something, just because I would be thinking differently. It's an interesting idea for me that someone who visualizes the way you do might read a poem I've written and create a much more detailed scene than I could create on my own.

As I'm writing, it's making me think more about how it impacts the way I read, as well. I'm quite used to it, so it's not a concern, it's just very interesting to think about.

I love music, and it's a pretty important part of my life, and the idea of it being visual for you, and for others, is so intriguing. For me it's sound, feeling, and the impact of the lyrics. Now I'm wondering if I would enjoy instrumental music more if I could "see" it.

Speaking of dreams, mine can be very vivid, and all the ones I remember are as visual as movie reels. So, my subconscious doesn't have aphantasia, either.

You're brave. I'm kinda afraid to explore the names for how my mind works. I'm sure my kids could give a few choice examples.

Great thread Calli. Looking forward to reading more responses.

I'm not so brave. Of all the things that might be going on in my mind, this one's pretty easy to explore. There are definitely other paths that can remain a mystery at this point.

Glad you like the thread. I'm happy that a few people have been interested enough to chime in.

 

[Lyricalli]

Certain Yogis are born with Viveka or Discrimination and can resist Vikshepa or Projected images. U Lyricalli seem to be a Powerful Yogini blessed with Viveka / Discrimination and can resist Distracting images with which ordinary mortals are led astray by Maya. I believe if you meditate on a single point in the Center of your Brain or Sahasrara Chakra : U will attain Samadhi or Om TAT SAT CHIT ANAND or eternal knowledge- Consciousness-Bliss very easily. It is a state of Final Consciousness and the avowed Objective of All Rajyogis!!! Go for it!!!!

Thank you for replying Ashesh

This sounds both intriguing and terrifying. I've never really tried meditating, but I will look into it. I have to confess, though, that while I may not see images in my brain, it is quite full of non-visual distractions that I think I'd have to contend with before any sort of bliss is possible.

 

[29wordsforsnow]

...I know where it's lit and where it's darker, but don't think to mention if the lights are flashing, if there's a disco ball, or other things that might create additional atmosphere....

Mmh, I always felt, instead of that, you describe the inside, the emotional part, of the scene very well, like getting rid of all the outside annoyances, expose the core of it and make great poetry as a result.

 

[Ashesh9]

Go for it!!!

Thank you for replying Ashesh

This sounds both intriguing and terrifying. I've never really tried meditating, but I will look into it. I have to confess, though, that while I may not see images in my brain, it is quite full of non-visual distractions that I think I'd have to contend with before any sort of bliss is possible.

Attagal!!!!

 

[butters]

Speaking of dreams, mine can be very vivid, and all the ones I remember are as visual as movie reels. So, my subconscious doesn't have aphantasia, either.

*

Glad you like the thread. I'm happy that a few people have been interested enough to chime in.

hi li'l bug

a most interesting thread and one that's given me pause for a couple of days to consider, on and off.

i'm the same re dream-visuals, more so now than before: before, it was always as if i were living them with justabout all senses intact, but nowadays when the first all-encompassing dreams are passed my brain seems to fill in the rest with 'junk movie screenings'. *shrugs* age? dunno, lol.

but getting back to the initial point: on first thoughts, i was 'oh, sure, i see things clear as day when i try to imagine them', but then remembered i'm shit at trying to visualise how a room might look a different colour. i mean, i can sort of see it, but more as an 'i know this would look better/brighter/cooler' what have you, than actually being able to see a solid visual... so i thought about it some more.

i get glimpses, like snapshots or film frames, here for a second then gone, maybe to be replaced by another like sort of flicker-frame; imagine a gymnast performing a backflip on the beam: not seeing it as a solid image a lot of the time but more 'instances' throughout the flip but that roll on creating the overall sense of a complete move.

i tried closing my eyes and visualising a solid image... nope, still shifting images with the exception of momentary stills, like memory photographs.

*thinks some more*

hmmmn... words. they create images in my head but, more than that, create sensations. if the language moves me, i'm transported inside the words... i get to experience them, what they're describing, beyond mere imagery: i'll be the one feeling the breeze as it plays across skin, as it moves the trees' leaves and hear that nuance of sound, notice the change in light more than by sight, by feel (pressure and temperature changes), experience pops of flavour and scents.
for example, i can close my eyes and try to imagine a golden chalice: i'll get glimpses of colour, a vague, undetailed shape... but when i think about the word, the sound of the word, i can see the letters sort of coil around the shape, melting into it lending it dimension, texture, temperature to the touch, and colour, plus a plethora of imagined history behind the cup's origins (and the word's entymology!). the letters have disappeared, i am fixated on the cup, on the mood that's been engendered. The image won't last, but is replaced by whatever story my brain (or the words in my head/in front of my eyes) suggest, like our eyes flick from one point to another in any given view in front of them. I think that's kind of how my own writing comes into being, organic, one moment (built by the effect of words) suggests the next.
words, specific words, can call up our own bank of stored images from memory, like stock photos (royalty free, of course), but it's the sounds of certain words, their musicality or dissonance, their tempo, that creates the sensory effects that wrap around the imagery to create a whole.

edit: all of that creates the emotional connection, for me, the emotional experience, which solidifies the whole as something just like a real memory.

so, all in all, if you are producing the words that inspire me to be a part of the poem, your poetry's not suffering from your lack of visualisation

 

[Lyricalli]

Mmh, I always felt, instead of that, you describe the inside, the emotional part, of the scene very well, like getting rid of all the outside annoyances, expose the core of it and make great poetry as a result.

Thank you

My thoughts on all of this aren't caused by concern that my writing necessarily needs more specific visual imagery, but thinking about it just made me wonder if I'd write differently if I had those images in my head. It's impossible to know, but an interesting situation to think about.

I've only been writing poetry for about 6 1/2 years, so those few times in the past when the subject of visualizing/imagining would come up, the difference it made in how I read or write just didn't occur to me. The most recent conversations I had within the last several years were with someone who I would now classify as having hyperphantasia, like Angie mentioned she has, and I found that so fascinating in relation to me. It didn't occur to me then to put that difference in context with my writing.

I was just thinking about it the other morning, and instead of talking to myself, I made a thread.

 

[Lyricalli]

hi li'l bug *thinks some more*

hmmmn... words. they create images in my head but, more than that, create sensations. if the language moves me, i'm transported inside the words... i get to experience them, what they're describing, beyond mere imagery: i'll be the one feeling the breeze as it plays across skin, as it moves the trees' leaves and hear that nuance of sound, notice the change in light more than by sight, by feel (pressure and temperature changes), experience pops of flavour and scents.

Thank you so much for giving this so much thought and writing such a lovely, thorough response. I very much enjoyed the trip through how you experience the words that you read. I've narrowed it down to just this piece to respond to because it resonated with me so much.

While I can't see imagery, I do feel words, as you mention, in sensations. For me, the strongest are tactile, things that I'd be touching or would be touching me, and sounds. I seem to connect to movement, and the ideas of where things are in relation to one another, when those are elements in something I'm reading. I experience taste to a lesser degree, and scent lags behind that unless it carries a particularly strong memory.

Your post opens up other areas where people may be different in the way they experience what they read, because there must also be a spectrum for the way sensations are experience when people are reading or being given something to imagine.

 

[Lyricalli]

What an interesting thread! I think I fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. There are definitely mental images, but they're not super vivid. Yet that vivid imagery is something I admire in many poems. I've also read about people who have no mental chatter going on in their heads. There's just not a running monologue of thought. I am exactly the opposite, and I must say that I envy those people who are able to have some peace and quiet in their heads! But I wonder if my never-ending mental commentary is what makes me so drawn to writing dialog in fiction. Our perceptions are, indeed, our realities.

Yes they are

Thank you for joining in, and welcome to our little corner of Lit.

I haven't looked into internal monologues yet, but a friend just recently asked me about that. I seem to have quite a bit of chatter going on in my head, so I understand what you mean. I wonder what percentage of people who write have an internal monologue and use writing to get some of those words out. More things to think about!

 

[Ashesh9]

CROSS-WIRING Concept

Thank you for replying Ashesh

This sounds both intriguing and terrifying. I've never really tried meditating, but I will look into it. I have to confess, though, that while I may not see images in my brain, it is quite full of non-visual distractions that I think I'd have to contend with before any sort of bliss is possible.

In today's Sunday Times of India , columnist Shefalee Vasudev writes " cross-wiring ....in psychology is a riveting concept. It causes synthesia ---a condition in which information meant to stimulate one sense stimulates multiple senses. Synthetes " see" music when they hear it and can even assign it a colour. When they eat, they "taste " food texyure as having shapes like square or round.
Cross-wiring is also an incredible metaphor."
I believe some people are Synthesetes and many others are Asynthesetes: either U R born with it or not. Period.
Actually i feel slightly silly and selfish for discussing these concepts sitting in Mumbai, whilst in a neighbouring country women and girls are getting stoned to death, lynched or shot dead in cold blood only because of choice of garments or getting caught outside their homes@$#^&^

 

[Piscator]

Actually i feel slightly silly and selfish for discussing these concepts sitting in Mumbai, whilst in a neighbouring country women and girls are getting stoned to death, lynched or shot dead in cold blood only because of choice of garments or getting caught outside their homes@$#^&^

Well said,