the marks of a slave

[intothewoods]

Do you listen to This American Life? There was this one piece - I can't even remember the theme of episode ... Valentine's Day? - about a couple, a Chinese woman and an American guy. And the guy had basically met this woman and then lost track of her and then went to great lengths to track her down. She then comes on a visa for a limited period and they can either get married and she can stay or she has to go back. So they get married. Then there is this point in the story where they say that they had some really hard years because they didn't know each other all that long when they married. There were times when they almost split up. During those times, they kept telling the story of how they got together because it kind of inspired them and kept them going. Sometimes we need the stories. Or at least that's what this divorcee learned from listening to This American Life.

 

[BlitzKrieger]

Do you listen to This American Life? There was this one piece - I can't even remember the theme of episode ... Valentine's Day? - about a couple, a Chinese woman and an American guy. And the guy had basically met this woman and then lost track of her and then went to great lengths to track her down. She then comes on a visa for a limited period and they can either get married and she can stay or she has to go back. So they get married. Then there is this point in the story where they say that they had some really hard years because they didn't know each other all that long when they married. There were times when they almost split up. During those times, they kept telling the story of how they got together because it kind of inspired them and kept them going. Sometimes we need the stories. Or at least that's what this divorcee learned from listening to This American Life.

Was that the story where the guy was in China but knew almost no Chinese and still fell in love with the girl? If so, that is one of my favorite segments, because it gives me hope in the human condition. It also reaffirms my personal belief in fate. Somethings are just meant to be. Both the good, and the bad. Everything happens for a reason.

Note: If anyone reading this hasn't heard of This American Life please go here and listen to some of their favorites shows. Amazing stuff.

 

[intothewoods]

Was that the story where the guy was in China but knew almost no Chinese and still fell in love with the girl? If so, that is one of my favorite segments, because it gives me hope in the human condition. It also reaffirms my personal belief in fate. Somethings are just meant to be. Both the good, and the bad. Everything happens for a reason.

Note: If anyone reading this hasn't heard of This American Life please go here and listen to some of their favorites shows. Amazing stuff.

Yes, that's the one. I don't believe in fate or that everything happens for a reason. Terrible things happen in this world and I will never say that they happen for a reason.

Romance is intoxicating. Falling in love is intoxicating. I believe I can accurately say "literally" here although that makes me uneasy. Probably best to say, really and truly intoxicating. Anyway. I didn't hear that story and think, ahh, yes, fate. That story is a myth, but myths are the stories we tell each other for one reason or another. I love that that story was not the whole of their marriage but that it served a purpose. That works for me.

I often wonder what the secret to a long marriage is. What is the model? I keep looking for it. I think maybe I have to build my own with the lessons I learn from others here and there. I'm not eastern sun. I'm not, say, vanilla wife of 25 years. I'm me. Anyway, the idea that the great story served as something that the couple could return to, that is something that resonates for me.

 

[owned_whore]

Just stopping by to say that this is such a beautiful thread and I have thoroughly enjoyed lurking on it.

 

[eastern sun]

I have loved your romanticized telling of your daily struggles and rewards, but this post has made me more hopeful of attaining what you have. Knowing you have been through the horrible times and came out stronger is more of an inspiration. I am probably not saying this right, but wanted you to know that this post has touched me and that I have eventually recognized what has been right in front of me the whole time, just disguised.
Thank you Eastern Sun.

Thank you, Sexy. I enjoyed reading about the evolution of your relationship.

 

[eastern sun]

Do you listen to This American Life? There was this one piece - I can't even remember the theme of episode ... Valentine's Day? - about a couple, a Chinese woman and an American guy. And the guy had basically met this woman and then lost track of her and then went to great lengths to track her down. She then comes on a visa for a limited period and they can either get married and she can stay or she has to go back. So they get married. Then there is this point in the story where they say that they had some really hard years because they didn't know each other all that long when they married. There were times when they almost split up. During those times, they kept telling the story of how they got together because it kind of inspired them and kept them going. Sometimes we need the stories. Or at least that's what this divorcee learned from listening to This American Life.

I love telling stories.

One of my favorite play partners was a storyteller, too. He barely spoke until after he came, but then we'd lie down together and he'd start talking. Walking me through his world.

And his stories were great. Well-crafted, but true. I'd be physically spent and all soft and mushy and I'd lay back and listen and laugh or startle right on cue. He loved the way I hung on every word. He created the world that we lived in for the next hour or so. And I loved that world.

But he was also a man who wanted to believe that his past was still present. Even while the present slowly leaked its own disappointing truth into every gap he left unfilled. And I admit, I wanted to live in his fantasy too, and helped prop it up by engraving his past on a pen from Tiffany's and giving it to him for his birthday.

Sometimes we use our stories like beacons, lighting a path through the darkness. Sometimes we use our stories to delude ourselves, masking a reality we don't want to embrace.

The most ironic thing I've encountered in the last chapter of my life is the growing desire to "let go of the stories I tell myself" about what's going on in my little life - which amounts to letting go of the endless interpretations I put on everyone's actions and motives (including my own) - coupled with the growing desire to write, and write, and write, and write, the story of my life, of my mother's life, of my grandmother's life, complete with illustrations, just as they are, as I find them.

 

[eastern sun]

Just stopping by to say that this is such a beautiful thread and I have thoroughly enjoyed lurking on it.

Welcome to lit. I'd love to hear your stories.

 

[eastern sun]

We started my son on medication today. All spring, I have been standing like a boulder in the river trying to slow the flow of this water.

But I cannot deny the force of the current.

And my husband's support for the decision made it inevitable months ago.

Even as I watch my child's behavior change - (the mechanics of our chemistry is something to behold) - even as I evaluate each pro and each con in the light of my bias, I am struck by the happiness I feel in submission.

Giving up the fight, I feel peace.
Loosening my grip on what I wish for, I free my hands to touch what's in front of me.
Letting go of the agenda, I am open for any possibility.
Emptying myself of ideas of "right" and "wrong," there is room to move and open panoramic views.

I can't say I handled this situation like a "slave." I wielded too much power throughout.

But I do find myself, once again, back in familiar territory. My body responds. And it feels good.

I have learned something in trying to stop this flow. (Something about strength and flexibility.) And I have learned something in letting it finally move through me. (Something about open-mindedness and love.) I still have a lot to learn.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

We started my son on medication today. All spring, I have been standing like a boulder in the river trying to slow the flow of this water.

But I cannot deny the force of the current.

And my husband's support for the decision made it inevitable months ago.

Even as I watch my child's behavior change - (the mechanics of our chemistry is something to behold) - even as I evaluate each pro and each con in the light of my bias, I am struck by the happiness I feel in submission.

Giving up the fight, I feel peace.
Loosening my grip on what I wish for, I free my hands to touch what's in front of me.
Letting go of the agenda, I am open for any possibility.
Emptying myself of ideas of "right" and "wrong," there is room to move and open panoramic views.

I can't say I handled this situation like a "slave." I wielded too much power throughout.

But I do find myself, once again, back in familiar territory. My body responds. And it feels good.

I have learned something in trying to stop this flow. (Something about strength and flexibility.) And I have learned something in letting it finally move through me. (Something about open-mindedness and love.) I still have a lot to learn.

From what I've read, slaves who are mothers have their motherhood as a sacrosanct caveat. You have every right to your fierce protectiveness of your son, to retain some of the maternal power that allowed you to bring him into the world in the first place. To view this manifestation of your love for him as unslavelike is not useful or relevant in my opinion. He has not consented to his parents' M/s dynamic. He is exempt. His welfare remains more your responsibility than anyone else's on Earth. You have every right to cherish that knowledge and rise to that responsibility.

 

[eastern sun]

It doesn't always hurt to be a slave

We spent the last week in Vegas, possibly my husband's favorite place in the world.

The sun was hot, and by the last day I was showing signs of exhaustion at the hotel pool.

He said, "take an hour. Go to the spa. I'll stay with the kids. See her? 9.5"

My resistance spikes, "no. please, I don't want to."

He shoots me "the look." And I start to panic.

"An hour. An hour and a half. The women's spa. You'll love it."

I move like a robot to put on my clothes. "You're trying to get rid of me."

The most frustrated look crosses his face.

And I, near tears, leave the heat of the 100+ sun to spend an hour in the peaceful waters of the women's spa.

(I'd never been to a spa before. I never knew those cucumber slices they put on your eyes are frozen.)

 

[eastern sun]

From what I've read, slaves who are mothers have their motherhood as a sacrosanct caveat. You have every right to your fierce protectiveness of your son, to retain some of the maternal power that allowed you to bring him into the world in the first place. To view this manifestation of your love for him as unslavelike is not useful or relevant in my opinion. He has not consented to his parents' M/s dynamic. He is exempt. His welfare remains more your responsibility than anyone else's on Earth. You have every right to cherish that knowledge and rise to that responsibility.

I do, Velvet. Otherwise I would never have resisted so hard for so long. But after months of discussion and observation, I think we are doing the right thing.

My resistance still felt "unslavelike," though. And significantly impacted the dynamics between my husband and I.

I don't think I was wrong to resist. And I think he was right to support me, even when it temporarily thwarted his sexual interests. We are both mature and conscientious parents.

Putting aside the M/s dynamics, my husband's input into the decision is also equally valid. He is equally concerned about his son's welfare. And brings his own knowledge and experience to the table. I am extremely grateful that he didn't push me past my own strong objections, in spite of the fact that he could.

I guess I want to write about it here because life isn't black and white. Power doesn't really reside in any one person's hands in the long run. It shifts and moves constantly. Even in a TPE.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I guess I want to write about it here because life isn't black and white. Power doesn't really reside in any one person's hands in the long run. It shifts and moves constantly. Even in a TPE.

Very true. If Master isn't feeling his power on a particular day... or week... or whatever, it leaves a void, a vacuum. Either that void becomes a distance between you or you temporarily fill it and pick up the slack. There are plenty of times when I'm stressed, pre-menstrual, depressed or whatever and fail to be 'slavelike' which he handles with equal equanimity. If your boss at work becomes pre-occupied and fails to 'boss' you, you (should) act as though they were functioning optimally anyway and just get the job done.

Life is not black and white but the shades of grey are myriad. If you keep your awareness of where the black ends and the white begins, you can't go too far wrong can you?

 

[Homburg]

I can't say I handled this situation like a "slave." I wielded too much power throughout.

Good.

"Mother" > "slave"

Velvet said pretty much everything else I would've said.

 

[BlitzKrieger]

Life is not black and white but the shades of grey are myriad. If you keep your awareness of where the black ends and the white begins, you can't go too far wrong can you?

But, isn't it interesting how the those that live at the extreme ends of the black/white spectrum can often act exactly the same in the execution of their actions? The farther apart they get, the more they mirror each other. The dividing line between Righteous Zealot and Tyrannical Overload is as thin as a newborn baby's hair.

(you can insert just about any "polar opposite" coupling and still get the same result like: Democrat and Republican)

 

[BlitzKrieger]

Good.

"Mother" > "slave"

Velvet said pretty much everything else I would've said.

I said the exact same thing to Pet this morning after reading ES's post.

Mother trumps Master, period.
Even if shes wrong she still trumps Master.


I'm just glad that your son is reacting so well to the meds already, ES. I am a great opponent against the medicating of children, but it sounds as if he truly needed them to be healthy, and hopefully happy. That is more important than any relationship dynamic.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

But, isn't it interesting how the those that live at the extreme ends of the black/white spectrum can often act exactly the same in the execution of their actions? The farther apart they get, the more they mirror each other. The dividing line between Righteous Zealot and Tyrannical Overload is as thin as a newborn baby's hair.

(you can insert just about any "polar opposite" coupling and still get the same result like: Democrat and Republican)

"The face of self righteousness triumphant is uglier than that of wickedness revealed."

Now if I could just remember where I got that random quote from...

I don't know exactly what you mean about the execution of actions being the same. I'm certainly not about to take a flogger to him.

 

[eastern sun]

I said the exact same thing to Pet this morning after reading ES's post.

Mother trumps Master, period.
Even if shes wrong she still trumps Master.


I'm just glad that your son is reacting so well to the meds already, ES. I am a great opponent against the medicating of children, but it sounds as if he truly needed them to be healthy, and hopefully happy. That is more important than any relationship dynamic.

Actually, the jury is still out since we've only just begun.

"Mother" has more than ample opportunity to speak her mind. And will, as necessary.

(Can I say, however, that the outcome of the second option - "Even if shes wrong she still trumps Master"- can get quite interesting in practice. . . . )

 

[eastern sun]

Very true. If Master isn't feeling his power on a particular day... or week... or whatever, it leaves a void, a vacuum. Either that void becomes a distance between you or you temporarily fill it and pick up the slack. There are plenty of times when I'm stressed, pre-menstrual, depressed or whatever and fail to be 'slavelike' which he handles with equal equanimity. If your boss at work becomes pre-occupied and fails to 'boss' you, you (should) act as though they were functioning optimally anyway and just get the job done.

Life is not black and white but the shades of grey are myriad. If you keep your awareness of where the black ends and the white begins, you can't go too far wrong can you?

I love your description of the way the void or vacuum becomes distance. Or not.

Boundaries, and edges, can be so fluid . . . sometimes.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I love your description of the way the void or vacuum becomes distance. Or not.

Boundaries, and edges, can be so fluid . . . sometimes.

I used to think that it wasn't down to me to bridge that gap. It always feels presumptuous when I do so and I always have an overwhelming relief when an issue passes and we resume our 'normal' dynamic again. It's not that I fear taking control or using my initiative, it's just that my doing so makes his temporary failure to do that much more obvious and prescient. Having said that, it's also usually the nudge he needs to put his eye back on the ball. He has never had a problem with how I handle these times.

 

[eastern sun]

I used to think that it wasn't down to me to bridge that gap. It always feels presumptuous when I do so and I always have an overwhelming relief when an issue passes and we resume our 'normal' dynamic again. It's not that I fear taking control or using my initiative, it's just that my doing so makes his temporary failure to do that much more obvious and prescient. Having said that, it's also usually the nudge he needs to put his eye back on the ball. He has never had a problem with how I handle these times.

I've also learned that when he doesn't want control, he doesn't want control.

(I have to be a little careful when he asks me to choose a restaurant or a movie, though. I've learned to glean his interest, if at all possible, cause if he doesn't like a choice I made, I'll end up paying the price in the end. On the other hand, sometimes he really doesn't want to be bothered with the decision-making.)

 

[Homburg]

I very rarely want to choose the restaurant. Not my thing. I do like vetoing suggestions that I don't like however.

 

[HisSexyPet]

This is NOT the place to put advertisements for other web sites...the total disrespect of Eastern Sun is infuriating.

 

[CutieMouse]

This is NOT the place to put advertisements for other web sites...the total disrespect of Eastern Sun is infuriating.

They're spamming without any regard for where/what topic. I reported it a bit ago; I'm sure the Mods will take care of it soon.

(If you find spam, it does much more good to simply report it than chide the spammer. The report button is the little triangle in the bottom left corner of each post. )

 

[HisSexyPet]

They're spamming without any regard for where/what topic. I reported it a bit ago; I'm sure the Mods will take care of it soon.

(If you find spam, it does much more good to simply report it than chide the spammer. The report button is the little triangle in the bottom left corner of each post. )

Thank you, and I finally found the button and have been using it as often as I am allowed.

 

[Adakgirl]

I live in a big city. Personal space is at a premium and elaborate rituals have been developed to keep the boundaries intact. On the other hand, inadvertent moments of intimacy with strangers abound.

Riding on the subway, I have allowed moments when my body came in contact with a sexy stranger to last, and last, and last, hoping against hope that he, or she, would not move away. And frequently, they don't.

So . . . last night, my husband and I are walking through the park and come upon an outdoor concert. The music is good. A mix of blues and zydeco. My kind of thing. And my husband generously suggests we stay for a while.

We find a couple of empty seats. He's not entirely happy, and I always feel uncomfortable when he's doing something "for me" that he isn't enjoying himself.

Question, How can you be sure he is not entirely happy? If he knows that he is doing something that you want to do, and he is doing it for you... and he knows that when he does these things it makes you uncomfortable...would he not be deriving some pleasure out of your discomfort? In other words... Could he be doing it for you not because he's being generous towards you but simply because he knows doing it for you makes you uncomfortable?

Also, does he HAVE to be entirely happy all the time?

Another couple take the seats next to us. The guy is attractive. And big. And when he sits in the chair next to me, his body is close. I cannot avoid touching him. We instinctively move away from each other, following the protocol of the city, but there is no way we are going to avoid touching without holding ourselves away from each other.

Question - my husband enjoys watching my attraction to other men. I know he's bored, and want to please him. Do I sink back in my chair, and allow my body to rest against this stranger's?

Answer, in my opinion is no not unless you are actually attracted to the man.
Why do you automatically want to pay him back for doing something he knows pleases you? (or knows causes you discomfort?) By doing something you wouldn't normally do in that social situation?

Is this an issue of consent?

yes, I would say it is an issue of consent. You could always look at the man and ask him if he minds.

Just a few thoughts..I was chewing on.
As an aside......

This reminds me of a plane flight I was on, in a small plane, back two seats, I was the outside seat. A very large young man sqeeeezed himself into the seat next to me..but there was no way he could do anything but hold his right arm up or let it rest down with his upper arm against my breast. There were a few moments of him lifting his arm up and down. He was blushing all shades of red and I turned to him, smiled and said,

" Don't worry about it, leave it down... it won't bother me a bit. You are not the first man to ever rest his arm against my breast nor will you be the last..I hope!" He burst out laughing and we had a wonderful conversation the rest of the flight. Both relaxed with the situation we found ourselves in.

I've often wondered how many woman would have been appalled and embarrassed at.. what I felt to be a perfectly natural thing, unavoidable and ok with me and how many would have made the poor young man hold his arm up for the next 45 minutes?