Pope Bashing?

[AllardChardon]

How I missed the prospect of procreation at the hands of the abusive priests, besides the obvious immediate victim, namely the unwanted offspring, is beyond me. The vision of a young woman having to explain to her parents that the child she was caring was her priest's issue flashed before my eyes. Who does one complain to without fear of eternal retribution in a situation like that?

 

[cloudy]

Christianity in all forms is the most persecuted religion on the planet.
Been true for so long this seems normal anymore.

Try to sell that lie to someone who hasn't lived very long. Maybe they'll believe it.

 

[colddiesel]

Christianity in all forms is the most persecuted religion on the planet.
Been true for so long this seems normal anymore.

Well if you say so it must be right, make sure to tell your Jewish friends and of course remind them that the christians were only trying to correct their misunderstandings.

 

[AllardChardon]

This thread is not about persecution of religions, it is about the sexual abuse perpetrated at the hands of Catholic Church officials and the Pope's position on the matter. If mandatory celibacy ceased for all time, most of this abuse would disappear, not all, but most.

 

[AllardChardon]

Priest sex abuse linked to 13 suicides in Belgium

Priest sex abuse linked to 13 suicides in Belgium
By RAF CASERT, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS – Hundreds of sex abuse victims have come forward in Belgium with harrowing accounts of molestation by Catholic clergy that reportedly led to at least 13 suicides and affected children as young as two, a special commission said Friday.

Professor Peter Adriaenssens, chairman of the commission, said the abuse in Belgium may have been even more rampant than the 200-page report suggests.

"Reality is worse than what we present here today because not everyone shares such things automatically in a first contact with the commission," he told reporters.

Adriaenssens, a child psychiatrist who has worked with trauma victims for 23 years, said nothing had prepared him for the stories of abuse that blighted the lives of victims.

"We don't just talk about touching. We are talking about oral and anal abuse, forced masturbation and mutual masturbation. We talk about people who have gone through serious abuse," Adriaenssens said.

Most of the abuse happened during the 1960s and 1970s, he said.

The Roman Catholic Church in Belgium experienced the findings as "a body blow," Adriaenssens said.

Belgian Archbishop Andre-Joseph Leonard said he would react on Monday to the report. The Vatican had no immediate comment.

But Tournai Bishop Guy Harpigny, who deals with the issue for the church, praised Adriaenssens's work and told VRT television that "now, the time has come to listen to the victims."

The report's findings are the latest embarrassment for Belgium's Catholic Church, which is still reeling after the April resignation of Bruges Bishop Roger Vangheluwe, who admitted to having sexually abused a nephew for years when he was a priest and bishop.

Friday's report said 507 witnesses came forward with stories of molestation at the hands of clergy over the past decades. It says those abused included children who were two, four, five and six years old.

Family members or friends said 13 victims committed suicide that "was related to sexual abuse by clergy," the report said. Six other witnesses said they had attempted suicide.

"It is notable how often one issue comes back in the witness reports: the high number of suicides," the report said.

The number of those coming forward with their stories and testimonies, however, could be only a fraction of those actually abused, Adriaenssens said. He added several priests cooperated with the panel, which had the support of the Belgian church.

"We saw how priests, called up by the commission and asked to help seek the truth, were willing to set up the list of 10, 15, 20 victims they abused during boarding school while the commission knew only of one," he said.

Archbishop Leonard, who was appointed earlier this year, said he will come forward with a new initiative Monday on how to deal with cases of abuse, prevent further abuse and help victims seek closure.

His spokesman Jurgen Mettepenningen said the archbishop didn't comment Friday so as not to distract attention from the report's contents.

Leonard's predecessor, Cardinal Godfried Danneels, acknowledged Wednesday that damage control often took precedence in Belgium over concerns for victims in sexual abuse cases involving clergy.

The crisis in the Belgian church was exacerbated last month, when secret tapes were published of Danneels speaking with the man whom Vangheluwe abused and suggesting a cover-up until Vangheluwe was to retire in 2011. Danneels said Wednesday he should have asked Vangheluwe to resign immediately.

 

[AllardChardon]

Pope on UK visit admits failures in abuse scandal

Pope on UK visit admits failures in abuse scandal
By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer

EDINBURGH, Scotland – Pope Benedict XVI began a controversial visit to Britain on Thursday by acknowledging the Catholic Church had not acted decisively or quickly enough against priests who molested children. He said the church's top priority now was to help abuse victims heal.

The pope's comments to reporters traveling with him from Rome marked his most thorough admission to date of church failures to stop pedophile priests, but they again failed to satisfy victims' groups. The issue has reignited with recent revelations of hundreds of victims in Belgium, including at least 13 of whom committed suicide.

Benedict's four-day state visit has been overshadowed by disgust over the abuse scandal and indifference in highly secular Britain, where Catholics are a minority at 10 percent and endured centuries of bloody persecution until the early 1800s.

The pope's first meeting was with Queen Elizabeth II, both head of state and head of the Church of England, at The Palace of Holyroodhouse in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Benedict was warmly welcomed by the queen, who wore a blue-gray knee-length coat and matching hat and gloves, as tartan-wearing bagpipers marched and thousands of people watched under blustery, cloud-streaked blue skies. The pontiff himself donned a green tartan scarf as he rode through Edinburgh in the Popemobile.

Later, he enjoyed a very Scottish treat: a lunch of haggis — sheep heart, liver and lungs simmered in sheep stomach — at the home of Scottish Cardinal Keith O'Brien.

The queen told Benedict that his visit reminded all Britons of their common Christian heritage and said she hoped relations between the Anglican Church and the Catholic Church would be deepened as a result.

She also praised the Catholic Church's "special contribution" to helping the poorest and most vulnerable people around the world.

"We know from experience that through committed dialogue, old suspicions can be transcended and a greater mutual trust encouraged," she said. "We hold that freedom to worship is at the core of our tolerant and democratic society."

The pope, too, recalled the shared Christian heritage of Catholics and Anglicans and said he wanted to extend a "hand of friendship" to the British people during his trip.

He said the queen's forefathers' "respect for truth and justice, for mercy and charity come to you from a faith that remains a mighty force for good in your kingdom."

The German-born Benedict's visit also came as the U.K marks the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Britain. Benedict recalled how Britain fought the "Nazi tyranny" during World War II, "that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live."

The trip is the first state visit by a pope to the U.K., and his meeting with the queen is symbolically significant because of the historic divide between the officially Protestant nation and the Catholic Church.

The queen is head of the Church of England, which split acrimoniously from Rome in the 16th century, a division followed by centuries in which Catholics were fined, discriminated against and killed for their faith in Britain. The visit also coincides with the 450th anniversary of the Reformation in Scotland.

The last papal visit to Britain was by John Paul II in 1982. Benedict's trip is a state visit because he was invited by the monarch.

The British media has been particularly hostile to the pope's visit, noting its 12-million-pound ($18.7 million) security cost to British taxpayers at a time of austerity measures and job losses. Protests are planned and "Pope Nope" T-shirts have been spotted around London.

There also remains strong opposition in the U.K. to Benedict's hard line against homosexuality, abortion and using condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS.

Yet a crowd of about 125,000 in Edinburgh welcomed him warmly, with the cheers on Princes Street heard from a mile away and well-wishers toting the Holy See's yellow and white flag.

"I've brought my wee girl Laura to see the pope," said James Hegarty, a 42-year-old unemployed Edinburgh resident. "She's only 4, but it's a once in a lifetime chance to see him."

A mile away, about 80 people protested the visit led by a Northern Ireland Protestant leader, the Rev. Ian Paisley. It was held at the Magdalen Chapel where John Knox, the leader of the Scottish Reformation, preached.

"This visit should never had happened. We stand here against these abusers. This is a waste of taxpayers' money," Paisley said.

Benedict acknowledged the opposition in his airborne comments to reporters, saying Britain had a "great history of anti-Catholicism. But it is also a country with a great history of tolerance."

Asked about polls that suggest many Catholics had lost trust in the church as a result of the sex abuse scandals, Benedict said he was shocked and saddened about the scope of the abuse, in part because priests take vows to be Christ's voice upon ordination.

"It's difficult to understand how a man who has said this could then fall into this perversion. It's a great sadness," Benedict said in Italian. "It's also sad that the authority of the church wasn't sufficiently vigilant, and not sufficiently quick or decisive to take necessary measures" to stop it.

He said victims were the church's top priority as it tries to help them heal spiritually and psychologically.

"How can we repair, what can we do to help these people overcome this trauma, find their lives again and find again the trust in the message of Christ?" Benedict said.

He insisted that abusive priests must never again be allowed access to young children, saying they suffer from an illness that "goodwill" cannot cure. In addition, he said, candidates for the priesthood must be better screened.

The Vatican has been reeling for months as thousands of victims around the globe have spoken out about priests who molested children, bishops who covered up for them and Vatican officials who turned a blind eye to the problem for decades.

Previously, Benedict has admitted that the scandal was borne of "sins within the church" but he had never acknowledged in such detail to the church's failures to act. Advocates for victims have long insisted he take more personal responsibility for the scandal, given that he was in charge of the Vatican office that handled sex abuse cases and was archbishop of Munich when a pedophile priest was assigned pastoral work while undergoing therapy for having abused young boys.

Benedict didn't take individual personal responsibility Thursday, saying only that the "authority of the church" had failed.

The main U.S. victim's group dismissed Benedict's comments as disingenuous, noting that the only real action the Vatican has taken has been to tell bishops to report abuse to police if local laws require them to do so.

"Bishops across the world continue to deliberately choose secrecy and deception over safety and honesty in child sex cases," said Joelle Casteix of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests.

Vatican officials haven't confirmed that Benedict will meet with abuse victims while in Britain, but U.K. organizers say arrangements are being made.

Only 65,000 of the faithful are expected to attend an open air Mass at Bellahouston Park in Glasgow later Thursday, compared to the 100,000 previously expected. Susan Boyle, the "Britain's Got Talent" reality show star who shot to global fame last year, will sing at the Mass.

A beatification event will follow on Sunday for Cardinal John Newman in Birmingham, which will see the 19th-century English philosopher take a step on his way to sainthood.

The bookish Benedict lacks the charisma of his predecessor John Paul II, who pulled in a crowd of 250,000 for Mass at the same Glasgow park.

Scotland has about 850,000 Catholics, but 27 percent of Scots — about 1.5 million — did not register a religion or said they were atheists.

The Humanist Society of Scotland placed billboards between Edinburgh and Glasgow that read: "Two million Scots are good without God." It also took exception to the pope's comment Thursday about the Nazis.

"The notion that it was the atheism of Nazis that led to their extremist and hateful views or that somehow fuels intolerance in Britain today is a terrible libel against those who do not believe in God," the group said.

The Rev. Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, responded that Benedict — who was forced to serve as a Nazi Youth — chose his words wisely. "You can agree or not, but I think the pope knows very well what the Nazi ideology was," Lombardi said.

 

[AllardChardon]

UK Police: 5 arrested in alleged threat to pope

UK Police: 5 arrested in alleged threat to pope
By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer

LONDON – British police arrested five London street cleaners over an alleged threat to Pope Benedict XVI on Friday, the second day of a papal trip to Britain that has brought both a warm welcome from Catholics and renewed anger over the clerical sex abuse scandal.

The Vatican said the pope was calm despite the pre-dawn arrests and planned no changes to his schedule.

Acting on a tip, police detained the men, aged 26 to 50, under the Terrorism Act at a cleaning depot in central London after receiving information about a possible threat. The men are being questioned at a London police station and have not been charged. Police said an initial search of that business and other related properties has not uncovered any hazardous items.

The pope's visit has divided opinion in officially Protestant, highly secular Britain. The trip has been overshadowed by disgust over the Catholic Church's clerical abuse scandal and opposition from secularists and those opposed to the church's stances against homosexuality and using condoms to fight AIDS.

The detained suspects worked for a contractor on behalf of Westminster Council, the authority responsible for much of central London. The pope will still address British politicians, businessmen and cultural leaders in Westminster Hall, part of the Houses of Parliament, later Friday.

The depot were the men were arrested is responsible for cleaning another part of London that the pope is not due to visit, police said.

Police confirmed that some of the men were thought to be from outside Britain but declined to comment on press reports they were of Algerian origin.

Veolia Environmental Services, the cleaners' company, had no immediate comment on the arrests.

There was no indication the arrests involved a threat to national security. Protesters and activists have previously been arrested under the country's terrorism laws during high-profile events such as economic summits and state visits.

The pope's security on this trip has been visibly higher than on previous foreign trips, and Vatican officials have acknowledged that Britain represents a higher security threat than the other European countries Benedict has visited this year, including Portugal, Malta and Cyprus.

News of the arrests came as the pope was meeting representatives of other religions, including Muslims and Jews, and stressing the need for mutual respect, tolerance and freedom.

The Vatican said the pope was informed of the arrests and was pleased he could stick to his schedule.

"We have compete trust in the police," Vatican spokesman Rev. Federico Lombardi told reporters. "The police are taking the necessary measures. The situation is not particularly dangerous.

"The pope is happy about this trip and is calm."

The pontiff will meet Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams later Friday, head of the Anglican Communion, in a display of unity between the divided Christian churches. On Saturday, he is to address thousands of pilgrims at an open-air service in London's Hyde Park.

Benedict travels with his own security detail, headed by chief papal bodyguard Domenico Giani. Benedict's white, bulletproof Popemobile is flanked by eight to 10 dark-suited bodyguards who jog alongside, scanning crowds for potential threats as the pope waves to well-wishers from inside.

There have been no major known attempts against Benedict; his predecessor Pope John Paul II survived an assassination attempt in 1981.

Benedict was knocked down at Christmas Eve Mass in 2009 by a mentally unstable woman who jumped the security barricade inside St. Peter's Basilica. In 2007, a man jumped the barricade in St. Peter's Square and grabbed the pope's vehicle before being pushed to the ground by guards.

Benedict was nearly 30 minutes late for his first event Friday morning, with the Vatican attributing the delay at the time to logistical problems.

The pope was then given a boisterous welcome by thousands of cheering Catholic schoolchildren at St. Mary's University College in London, where he urged young people to ignore the shallow temptations of today's "celebrity culture."

Benedict also told their teachers to make sure to provide the children with a trusting, safe environment — the second time in as many days that he has referred to the church sex abuse scandal. On Thursday, the pope acknowledged that the Roman Catholic Church had failed to act quickly or decisively enough to remove pedophile priests from ministry.

"Our responsibility toward those entrusted to us for their Christian formation demands nothing less," Benedict said. "Indeed, the life of faith can only be effectively nurtured when the prevailing atmosphere is one of respectful and affectionate trust."

Polls in Britain indicate widespread dissatisfaction with the way Benedict has handled the sex abuse scandal, with Catholics nearly as critical of him as the rest of the population.

Outside the London university hall, some 4,000 young students, outfitted in prim school uniforms and waving small white-and-yellow Holy See flags, serenaded the pontiff Friday with gospel hymns and songs.

The students, from England, Scotland and Wales, gave Benedict a tie-dyed stole and three books tracing the history of the Catholic Church in Great Britain. They presented the gifts to the pontiff as he sat on an enormous red throne on a stage decorated with children's artwork.

The 83-year-old Benedict appeared relaxed and happy, gently greeting each child and kissing each on the head.

Just before the pope left, a member of the his security team spotted 39-year-old Becky Gorrod, who had been standing outside the gates of St. Mary's holding her 8-month-old daughter Alice. Mother and child were ushered in to meet the pontiff as the crowd cheered.

"My husband's never going to believe me," Gorrod told journalists. "They opened the car door, and the pope got out. Then the (pacifier) fell out of Alice's mouth, and the pope bent down and picked it up! The pope! How mad is that?"

She said the pope then kissed Alice on the forehead.

A few blocks away, about 30 people protested, holding up inflated condoms and posters. "Condoms are not crimes," read one. Another read: "Science flies you to the moon: religion flies you into buildings."

Michael Clark, 60, said he was protesting because he was gay and annoyed that the pope's visit — which is expected to cost British taxpayers 12 million pounds ($18.7 million) for security — was being funded by the state.

"That means it's being supported by taxpayers and people who may not have the same ideas," Clark said. "Sexuality is not evil."

Benedict began his four-day U.K. state visit on Thursday, greeted by Queen Elizabeth II at Holyroodhouse Palace in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Abuse scandals involving Catholic priests rocked the church in Britain more than a decade ago, sparking a 2001 report advising that all church officials, including volunteers, be subject to police checks and any allegations of abuse investigated swiftly. The Catholic Church in Britain has since prided itself on its response.

More recently, two former monks at Buckfast Abbey School were sentenced in 2007 for sexually abusing boys. And last year a monk at Ealing Abbey in London was sentenced for sexually abusing boys at an affiliated school.

Catholics are a minority in Britain at 10 percent, and up until the early 19th century they endured harsh persecution and discrimination and were even killed for their faith. King Henry VIII broke with Rome in the 16th century after he was denied a marriage annulment.

 

[AllardChardon]

Pope in the UK: Atheists Like Nazis

Pope in the UK: Atheists Like Nazis
Newsmax.com
Friday, 17 Sept 2010

In the midst of loud protests and thinner crowds than those that turned out for John Paul II's visit to the United Kingdom in 1982, Pope Benedict compared modern U.K. atheism with the rise of Nazi Germany — warning against "aggressive secularism," according to a report in the U.K.'s Mirror.

In his opening address to the Queen at Holyroodhouse in Edinburgh, the Pope spoke of "a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society," according to a BBC report.

"Even in our own lifetimes, we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live," he said.

"As we reflect on the sobering lessons of atheist extremism of the 20th century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny," the Pontiff added.

The British Humanist Association was quick to respond to the Pope's remarks, noting in a statement: “The notion that it was the atheism of Nazis that led to their extremist and hateful views or that it somehow fuels intolerance in Britain today is a terrible libel against those who do not believe in God.

“The notion that it is nonreligious people in the U.K. today who want to force their views on others, coming from a man whose organization exerts itself internationally to impose its narrow and exclusive form of morality and undermine the human rights of women, children, gay people, and many others, is surreal.”

 

[3113]

Surreal, too, given how Italy and, presumably the Pope at the time were in league with the Nazis and the Catholic Church had no objection at the time to wiping out the Jews Clearly, having a belief in god didn't stop them from being less than humanitarian.

And if god is god, how do you eradicate him? I mean, unless he wants to be eradicated in which case the atheists are doing his work.

 

[AllardChardon]

The whole thing is surreal, especially with the Brits having to pay for the Pope's safety while he visits the whopping 10 percent of Catholics in the country. Thanks for replying, 3113. I seem to be alone here most of the time.

 

[AllardChardon]

Pope meets with abuse victims as thousands protest

Pope meets with abuse victims as thousands protest
By NICOLE WINFIELD and VICTOR L. SIMPSON, Associated Press Writers
Sat Sep 18, 4:23 pm ET

LONDON – Pope Benedict XVI apologized Saturday to five people who were molested by priests as children in his latest effort to defuse the sex abuse crisis shaking his church, as thousands of people angered at the Vatican's response marched in central London in the biggest protest of his 5-year papacy.

Benedict met for about 30-40 minutes with the victims — four women and a man from Scotland, England and Wales — at the Vatican's ambassador's residence in Wimbledon and expressed "his deep sorrow and shame over what the victims and their families suffered," according to the Vatican.

"He prayed with them and assured them that the Catholic Church is continuing to implement effective measures designed to safeguard young people, and that it is doing all in its power to investigate allegations, to collaborate with civil authorities and to bring to justice clergy and religious accused of these egregious crimes," it said.

Across town, abuse victims and demonstrators opposed to the pope's stance against homosexuality, abortion and using condoms to fight AIDS marched peacefully from Hyde Park to Downing Street, the major protest of Benedict's controversial four-day state visit.

They carried banners reading: "The pope is wrong — put a condom on" and "Pope protects pedophile priests."

Later Saturday, though, an estimated 80,000 people massed in Hyde Park cheering the pope as he celebrated an evening vigil.

The Vatican statement was similar to ones it issued after Benedict met with abuse victims over the past two years while visiting the United States, Australia and Malta. But continued revelations of abuse — the latest in Belgium — have failed to placate critics demanding that the pope and other Vatican officials take personal responsibility and crack down on bishops who covered up abuses by their clerics.

For the first time, Benedict also met with a group of professionals and volunteers who work to safeguard children and young people in church environments, Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi told reporters.

Bill Kilgallon, chairman of Britain's National Catholic Safeguarding Commission who helped organize the meeting, told the BBC that the victims got "something between 30 and 40 minutes."

Asked if the victims were angry, he said: "No, I wouldn't say they were angry. I think there is anger in them ... But anger can be very constructive if they work for change."

The sex abuse scandal has clouded Benedict's state visit to this deeply secular nation with a centuries-old history of anti-Catholic sentiment. Polls have indicated widespread dissatisfaction in Britain with the way Benedict has handled the crisis, with Catholics nearly as critical of him as the rest of the population.

Anger over the scandal runs high in Britain in part because of the enormous scale of the abuse in neighboring Ireland, where government reports have detailed systematic abuse of children at church-run schools and cover-up by church authorities.

During a Mass in Westminster Cathedral earlier Saturday, Benedict said he hoped the church's humiliation would help victims heal and help the church purify itself and renew its commitment to educating the young.

His comments, which were in line with his previous statements on the topic, were directed at Britain's Catholic community in the seat of the English church, a sign that Benedict wanted to speak to the faithful about the humiliation they all felt as Catholics.

"I express my deep sorrow to the innocent victims of these unspeakable crimes, along with my hope that the power of Christ's grace, his sacrifice of reconciliation, will bring deep healing and peace to their lives," Benedict said in his homily.

He acknowledged the shame and humiliation all the faithful had suffered as a result of the scandal and said he hoped "this chastisement will contribute to the healing of the victims, the purification of the church and the renewal of her age-old commitment to the education and care of young people."

Martin Brown, 34, who was in the crowd outside the cathedral, termed it "a good apology."

"He seemed to really mean it; he was genuinely sorry," Brown said. "It's good he mentioned it and it's good he didn't dwell on it for too long. He got it just about right."

The meeting with victims, part of a series of moves that began when he issued an apology during a meeting with reporters on his plane from Rome, took place near the famous tennis stadium in Wimbledon, a 30-minute ride on London's Underground from the protest march route from Hyde Park to Downing Street, near the British prime minister's residence.

Organizers said nearly 20,000 people — twice the number expected — took part. Scotland Yard took the unusual step of declining to put a figure on the crowd, saying it lacked manpower to make such an estimate.

Many wore rainbow-colored clothes or waved gay pride flags. Some members of the crowd bounced inflated condoms back and forth across the route.

Demonstrators largely focused their anger on the church's attitude toward the child abuse scandal. Richard Erson, a 40-year-old Londoner, said he was there "to protest the hatred of the pope and his church toward homosexuals and to protest the ignorance of abundant child abuse within the church."

Cornelius Crowley, a 65-year-old from Ireland, said: "I'm a Catholic school survivor of physical and psychological abuse. I hope people will open their hearts to the issue."

Still, the protest was peaceful.

Benedict's predecessor, Pope John Paul II, faced a violent protest in Utrecht, the Netherlands in 1985 involving about 1,000 to 1,500 young people.

Benedict began his day by meeting with British Prime Minister David Cameron, and other British leaders. The pope offered his condolences to Cameron following the death of his father, Lombardi said.

On Friday, Benedict's visit had been overshadowed by the arrest of six men suspected of plotting an attack on the pontiff. Police gave few details of the arrests, and the men still remain in custody.

But Scotland Yard said Saturday that searches of premises connected with the men had not turned up anything in the way of weapons or explosives, and papal officials were relaxed, saying that no changes to the official itinerary were planned.

On Sunday, on his last day in Britain, Benedict is scheduled to beatify Cardinal John Henry Newman, a 19th century convert from Anglicanism whom the pope wants to hold up as a model for the faithful.

 

[xssve]

Christianity in all forms is the most persecuted religion on the planet.
Been true for so long this seems normal anymore.

Hahahahhahhahhahhahhahhahaaaaa!

Good one.


What really sucks is when Catholic priests are getting more action than I am.

Although I'm not personally vested in the issue, I was merely beaten, not molested by psychotic Nuns, the thing finally has gone beyond farce into the realm of tragedy where it belongs. Ratzinger has succeeded where so many have failed: rendering Catholicism utterly irrelevant.

 

[AllardChardon]

A quote from the last article:

"He (the Pope) prayed with them and assured them that the Catholic Church is continuing to implement effective measures designed to safeguard young people, and that it is doing all in its power to investigate allegations, to collaborate with civil authorities and to bring to justice clergy and religious accused of these egregious crimes."

Interesting word choice with egregious.

egregious - 1. (archaic) DISTINGUISHED 2. conspicuously bad ; FLAGRANT

 

[Safe_Bet]

Can any one post here??? Hope so!

This is a wonderful rant that I read this afternoon, by a blogger chick on another site I frequent. It's a beaut!

Joseph Ratzinger is an enemy of humanity.

He’s an enemy of children, whose bodies he’s allowed to be raped and whose minds he’s encouraged to be infected with guilt. It’s embarrassingly clear that the church is less concerned with saving child bodies from rapists than with saving priestly souls from hell. And most concerned with saving the longterm reputation of the church itself.

He’s an enemy of gay people. Bestowing on them the sort of bigotry that his church used to reserve for Jews before 1964.

He’s an enemy of women, barring them from the priesthood as though a penis were an essential tool for pastoral duties.

He’s an enemy of truth, promoting barefaced lies about condoms not protecting against AIDS, especially in Africa.

He’s an enemy of the poorest people on the planet, condemning them to inflated families they cannot feed and so keeping them in the bondage of perpetual poverty. A poverty which sits ill beside the obscene wealth of the Vatican.

He’s an enemy of science. Obstructing vital stem cell research on grounds, not of true morality, but on pre-scientific superstition.

Ratzinger is even an enemy of the Queen’s own church, arrogantly dissing Anglican orders as “absolutely null and utterly void,” while at the same time shamelessly trying to poach Anglican vicars to shore up his own pitifully declining priesthood.

Finally, perhaps of most personal concern to me, Ratzinger is an enemy of education. Quite apart from the lifelong psychological damage caused by the guilt and fear that have made Catholic education infamous throughout the world, he and his church foster the educationally pernicious doctrine that evidence is a less reliable basis for belief than faith, tradition, revelation, and authority. His authority.

Link to Ashley Miller's original blog

 

[Safe_Bet]

I ADORE Richard Dawkins! I love what he said about the RCC having to claim Hitler as a Catholic. TOO FUNNY!

Richard Dawkins' Speech at Protest the Pope March

 

[Boota]

Anyone who still identifies themselves as Catholic support and condone these abuses. Otherwise they'd remove themselves from what is obviously a corrupt and evil organization. You can't be a member of the Mafia and distance yourself from the actions of other Mafia members. Same thing here. You don't want to be lumped in the child molesters? Leave the organization of child molesters. It's far past time for the church to die.

 

[Handley_Page]

Too many commentators are protesting at this or that action /reaction /inaction but fail to acknowledge there's a difference between what the Church DOES about something and what it believes (as in doctrinal Faith).
You cannot unpick a thousand years of misogynistic attitudes in less than a decade. Changes must come slowly; give everyone a chance to get used to the idea, so to speak.

On a TV programme the other night, it was said that the Pope is very concerned about the abuse scandal and has ordered that something be done - real quick.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Changes must come slowly; give everyone a chance to get used to the idea, so to speak.

Why?

Why should people have to put up with misogynistic, homophobic bigotry for the church's convenience? Why should we have to wait for change, when the church has proven that they are in capable of change? Why should we have to wait another couple of thousand years until they decide that maybe, just maybe that subjugation of women and hate isn't in their own best interests? Why should we stand by and watch thousands of more children be abused?

Frankly, I could give a good damn if it is "uncomfortable" for them because without a major push they aren't going to change.

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[AllardChardon]

I was very surprised and pleased to see postings to this thread.

Amy, I am sorry for your loss. My husband passed away of brain cancer in May after fighting it for two years. Loss of a loved one changes everything forever.

I started this thread because my husband was a full-blooded Italian Catholic who truly feared death and Judgment Day. Since I was raised by bohemians, I have no such fears and did what I could to relieve his before the day came.

Therefore, having been baptized a Catholic for marriage reasons, becoming disillusioned by the idiotic teachings the church preaches, and groped in the confessional by my priest, I left the Church behind, but find its demise fascinating.

 

[AllardChardon]

Pope beatifies convert in climax of British visit

Pope beatifies convert in climax of British visit
by Gildas Le Roux

"BIRMINGHAM, United Kingdom (AFP) – Pope Benedict XVI beatified a 19th century Catholic convert on Sunday in the finale of his historic visit to Britain.

The pope told 55,000 pilgrims gathered in a park in Birmingham, central England, that Cardinal John Henry Newman was a man of "outstanding holiness" whose teachings are as relevant today as they were more than a century ago.

The beatification mass -- elevating the late cardinal towards sainthood -- was the crowning moment of a four-day trip which the Vatican hailed as a "spiritual success".

The pope flew out of Birmingham onboard an Alitalia plane, after Prime Minister David Cameron said in a farewell address he had made Britain "sit up and think". He arrived back at Rome's Ciampino airport at around 2000 GMT.

In a recurrent theme of the visit, the pope on Sunday again condemned the abuse of children by Catholic priests, telling a meeting of British bishops it "seriously undermines the moral credibility of Church leaders".

On Saturday he expressed shame at the "unspeakable crimes" committed by paedophile priests and said in a homily at Westminster Cathedral they had brought "shame and humiliation" on the Church and caused "immense suffering".

He also met with five victims of sexual abuse and told them of his "shame" and "deep sorrow".

There had been fears the pope's visit would be overshadowed by protests against his stance on clerical abuse and women priests, but a pilgrim at the Birmingham mass, Rob Lyng, 47, said it had been a "revelation".

"The visit's taken centre stage. This country has stopped for three days. No other faith could do that," he said.

On Sunday the German-born pope praised Britain's "courageous" fight against the "evil" Nazi regime, as the country marks the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Britain, a key aerial conflict in World War II.

Benedict's trip has largely been hailed as a success in helping to bring together Catholics and Anglicans, underlined by a highly symbolic meeting on Friday with the worldwide Anglican leader, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams.

Fresh tensions between the two Churches were sparked last year when Benedict made it easier for Anglicans disaffected over issues such as the ordination of women to convert to Catholicism.

Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi described the Pope's trip as "wonderful" and "a spiritual success".

The head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales, Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols, praised the greeting the pope had received in Britain.

"The reception that the Holy Father has been given by people in this country has been frankly overwhelming," he told BBC television.

The pope also used his visit to warn of "aggressive secularism" in an increasingly multi-cultural Britain.

Cameron said the first papal trip to mainly Anglican Britain since John Paul II in 1982 and the first ever state visit by a pope had made people take a fresh look at faith.

"You have really challenged the whole country to sit up and think, and that can only be a good thing," the premier said at Birmingham Airport before Benedict's departure for Rome.

Newman was one of the Catholic Church's leading thinkers and one of its most renowned converts.

In the 1830s, after trying to "renew" the Anglican Church, he became convinced that Catholicism was the only true faith and converted, rising through the hierarchy to become a cardinal.

An American man from Boston with a debilitating spinal disorder claimed in 2001 he could suddenly walk again after praying to Newman. The pope proclaimed this a miracle last year, clearing the way to beatification.

Police in London said meanwhile they had freed without charge six men who were arrested on Friday on suspicion of plotting an attack against the pope."


First: I find this article interesting because of the amount of time it takes for a man like Cardinal Newman to become a saint and the miraculous healing aspect to his selection for sainthood.

Second: This man was a convert from Anglican to Catholicism, paving the way for others to follow in his footsteps by elevating him to sainthood. The Vatican really knows how to work a crowd.

 

[cuppycakes]

This thread is not about persecution of religions, it is about the sexual abuse perpetrated at the hands of Catholic Church officials and the Pope's position on the matter. If mandatory celibacy ceased for all time, most of this abuse would disappear, not all, but most.

Oh hi there, I was molested by a man when I was 9 and it continued until I was 11. It wasn't a priest, it was a family member. Most child molesters are in heterosexual relationships.

Lack of sex doesn't make you a child molester, and having consensual adult sex doesn't make you want to molest kids any less. So, celibacy? Not the problem. (Interesting side note: Catholic priests in the East are, and have always been, allowed to marry, and there are some legit married Catholic priests here in the US. I am related to one. And no, I'm not talking about Eastern Orthodox priests - Catholic ones.)

Additionally, not that it will do any good to say this in this thread, but priests know what they're signing up for when they enter seminary. They know the vows.
It is truly a scandal, and the Church should be held to a higher standard than a secular institution, BUT as someone who has dealt personally with the repercussions of child molestation... honestly nobody really knows how best to deal with it. Not law enforcement, not the church, not even your own family. Just food for thought.

 

[AllardChardon]

Thanks for posting and sharing, cuppycakes. My Dad wanted to be incestuous with me and tried several times starting when I was thirteen, but a friend figured out there was something wrong, (I never wanted to go into the house until my Mom got home) and told me I could have my Dad arrested. That stopped him from the intent but not the desire.

As far as the Church goes, I think if priests and nuns were given the choice whether to marry or not, they would be much happier overall.

 

[AllardChardon]

Italian police seize $30M from Vatican in probe

Italian police seize $30M from Vatican in probe
By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer

"VATICAN CITY – Italian authorities seized euro23 million ($30.18 million) from a Vatican bank account Tuesday and said they have begun investigating top officials of the Vatican bank in connection with a money laundering probe.

The Vatican said it was "perplexed and surprised" by the investigation.

Italian financial police seized the money as a precaution and prosecutors placed the Vatican bank's director general and its chairman under investigation for alleged mistakes linked to violations of Italy's anti-laundering laws, news reports said.

The is probe not the first time the bank — formally known as the Institute for Works of Religion — has faced trouble. In the 1980s, it was involved in a major scandal that resulted in a banker, dubbed "God's Banker" because of his close ties to the Vatican, being found hanging from Blackfriars Bridge in London.

The Vatican expressed full trust in the chairman of the bank, Ettore Gotti Tedeschi, and his director-general, and said it had been working for some time to make its finances more transparent to comply with anti-terrorism and anti-money laundering regulations.

"The Holy see is perplexed and surprised by the initiatives of the Rome prosecutors, considering the data necessary is already available at the Bank of Italy," it said in a statement.

News reports circulated more than a year ago that Italian investigators were scrutinizing millions of euros worth of Vatican bank transactions to see if they violated money laundering regulations.

In Tuesday's case, police seized the money from a Vatican bank account at the Rome branch of Credito Artigiano Spa, according to news agencies ANSA and Apcom. The bulk of the money, euro20 million ($26.2 million), was destined for JP Morgan in Frankfurt, with the remainder going to Banca del Fucino.

According to the reports, the Vatican bank had neglected to communicate to financial authorities where the money had come from. The reports stressed that Gotti Tedeschi wasn't being investigated for laundering money himself but for a series of alleged omissions in financial transactions.

Prosecutors declined requests seeking confirmation of the reports.

Gotti Tedeschi was named chairman of the bank a year ago after serving as the head of Italian operations for Spain's Banco Santander. A member of the conservative religious movement Opus Dei, Gotti Tedeschi frequently speaks out on the need for more morality in financing and is a very public cheerleader of Pope Benedict XVI's finance-minded encyclical "Charity in Truth."

News of the investigation came just after Benedict wrapped up a difficult trip to Britain and as the Vatican still reels from the fallout of the clergy sex abuse scandal.

The Vatican bank, located in a tower just inside the gates of Vatican City, isn't a typical bank. Its stated mission is to manage assets placed in its care that are destined for religious works or works of charity. But it also manages ATMs inside Vatican City and the pension system for the Vatican's thousands of employees.

The bank is not open to the public. Depositors are usually limited to Vatican employees, religious orders and people who transfer money for the pope's charities.

Its leadership is composed of five cardinals, one of whom is the Vatican's secretary of state. But the day-to-day operations are headed by Gotti Tedeschi and the bank's oversight council.

The Vatican bank was famously implicated in a scandal over the collapse of the Banco Ambrosiano in the 1980s in one of Italy's largest fraud cases.

Roberto Calvi, the head of Banco Ambrosiano, was found hanging from Blackfriars Bridge in London in 1982 in circumstances that still remain mysterious.

London investigators first ruled that Calvi committed suicide, but his family pressed for further investigation. Eventually murder charges were filed against five defendants, including a major Mafia figure, and they were tried in Rome and acquitted in 2007.

Banco Ambrosiano collapsed following the disappearance of $1.3 billion in loans the bank had made to several dummy companies in Latin America. The Vatican had provided letters of credit for the loans.

While denying any wrongdoing, the Vatican bank agreed to pay $250 million to Ambrosiano's creditors.

Last year, a U.S. appeals court dismissed a lawsuit against the Vatican bank filed by Holocaust survivors from Croatia, Ukraine and Yugoslavia who alleged it had accepted millions of dollars of their valuables stolen by Nazi sympathizers.

The court said the bank was immune from such a lawsuit under the 1976 Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act, which generally protects foreign countries from being sued in U.S. courts.

In its statement Tuesday, the Vatican also said it was working to join the so-called "white list" of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which keeps tabs on financial openness on the exchange of tax information.

The OECD divides countries into three categories: those who comply with rules on sharing tax information (white list), those who say they will but have not acted yet (gray list), and nations which have not yet agreed to change banking secrecy practices (blacklist)

Currently the Vatican bank isn't on any OECD list. "

This is a bit off topic, but makes me wonder where the money to compensate the victims does come from.

 

[AllardChardon]

Australia's first saint overcame excommunication

Slightly off-topic, but VERY relevant.

Australia's first saint overcame excommunication
By TANALEE SMITH, Associated Press Writer

PENOLA, Australia – Mary MacKillop's path to sainthood included an unlikely hurdle: excommunication.

As a young nun, MacKillop — who will be canonized as Australia's first saint Sunday at the Vatican — was briefly dismissed from the Roman Catholic Church in a clash with high clergy in 1871.

One of the catalysts for the censure strikes a note familiar to the present-day church: her order of nuns had exposed a pedophile priest.

The scandal, downplayed in church history, came to the forefront last week in a documentary about her by the Australian Broadcasting Corp. MacKillop was not the one who reported the abuse, but as a co-founder of the Sisters of St. Joseph of the Sacred Heart, she was the scapegoat, the Rev. Paul Gardiner told the country's public broadcaster.

Priests were "annoyed that somebody had uncovered it ... and being so angry, the destruction of the Josephites was decided on," said Gardiner, the chaplain of the Mary MacKillop Penola Center, a state-run historic site.

The exposure of the priest was just one of many factors — including bitter rivalries among priests — that led to MacKillop's excommunication, the Sisters of St. Joseph said in a statement.

She and 47 other nuns were thrown onto the streets of Adelaide, relying on the charity of friends to survive.

Five months later, the bishop revoked his ruling from his deathbed, restoring MacKillop to her order and paving the way for her decades of work educating the poor across Australia and New Zealand.

MacKillop grew up in poverty as the first of eight children of Scottish immigrants. By 16, she was the family breadwinner and at 18 she moved from Melbourne to the tiny sheepherding and farming town of Penola in southern Australia to become governess for her young cousins.

It was in Penola, a sleepy agricultural center then and now, that MacKillop became a teacher, inviting the poor and the Aborigines of the area to attend free classes in a six-room stable. In 1867, she began teaching in a newly built stone schoolhouse, which still stands today at the state historic site.

That year, MacKillop took her vows as a nun, becoming Sister Mary of the Cross. She co-founded her order with the goal of serving the poor, the sick and the disadvantaged, particularly through education.

"Her teaching, her life and devotion to God started here," said Michael Black, a 70-year-old Penola resident who was helping to clear rubble from the base of the schoolhouse in preparation for celebrations on Sunday.

The school was damaged by a mini-tornado that whipped through the town of 1,100 in late July, tearing some stones and roof planks from the historic building.

Black's ancestors settled in Penola in 1857, and he said some of them had been taught by MacKillop. As the white-haired man stooped over to add more stones to his bucket, he said he was doing his part to clean up the town for its saint.

"She's not being canonized especially for this school or what she did here, but she was a great woman, good for Australia and good for the world," Black said.

MacKillop traveled extensively in Australia and New Zealand, setting up schools and expanding her order, known as the "Brown Joeys" for the color of their habits and the term for a baby kangaroo. Today, there are 850 Josephite nuns in seven countries.

After her death in 1909, swelling public requests for blessings in her name prompted supporters to begin pushing for sainthood in the mid-1920s.

The Vatican agreed to a formal inquiry in 1959, a lengthy process that culminates in papal recognition of two miracles. In 1995, Pope John Paul II recognized the first: the recovery of a woman diagnosed with terminal cancer after she prayed to MacKillop. Last year, Pope Benedict XVI recognized the recovery of another woman from a similar condition as the second.

Five other people are being canonized on Sunday, including two Italians and one each from Canada, Poland and Spain. The Vatican ceremony will be broadcast live on giant screens at the sports field in Penola.

Similar events will take place in other cities as Australia celebrates its first saint. Commemorative coins have been minted, a musical based on MacKillop's life is on stage and the Sydney Harbor Bridge is being lit up with her image.

To protect the saint from being commercialized, the government is requiring its approval for any service or product using her name or image — an honor previously extended only to cricket legend Donald Bradman.

Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard, an atheist, described MacKillop as a pioneer who embodies "the best of the Australian spirit."

MacKillop always attributed her spiritual roots to the small town where she started.

"The work of our dear institute began at Penola," she wrote in a letter years later to the Josephite sisters. "Little did either of us then dream of what was to spring from so small a beginning."

 

[Pure]

hey, this is fun! can we branch out and do the dalai lama, for a bit, too? now there's a rascal! :caning: