On this day ten years ago

[lovecraft68]

I published "Weekends With Mom" a tweaked version of my first Lit mother son story Weekends with Laura on Smashwords. I sold seven copies that month and my first royalty payment through paypal was $13.76.

Just like I never saw myself doing much on lit when I started here in May 2010 I never saw myself doing with publishing, just figured I'd give it a shot.

I published e-book #164 yesterday. I have half dozen books in paperback and have had the pleasure of selling them in person at over two dozen comic cons, horror cons and book events.

According to my spreadsheets I've sold a hair over 100,000 e-books on SW, Amazon, B/N, Publish Drive, Stealth and all their affiliates.

I never saw any of this coming, and had more than a few people tell me that I was wasting my time, the market was dead, no one would like my work-specially my darker train wreck tales-and why bother.

I'm nothing if not tenacious and as others here will tell you, no comment or feedback or score here can match the thrill of someone paying money for your work, Its an even bigger thrill to sell a book in person and sign it for them.

I know this sounds like a brag thread, and I am proud of what I've done, but I want the message to anyone reading this who has wanted to sell, and is hesitant to try, to do it. Why not me? Was my thought, and why not you?

I'm not being self deprecating when I say if I can, you can. I knew nothing about covers, formatting, how to upload to certain sites, and all the other tedious things that go along with it. But like anything else that comes with learning as you go.

I do work with a publisher for a few things, but still mostly do it myself because I can do it and the extra work doesn't bother me.

Most of the people who were here when I started are gone, many of those gave me some advice and helped me out, a couple are still floating around. In turn I've helped many here get their work published or put them in touch with the publisher I use for my smut.

If you've been thinking about and have questions or need some help, feel free to pm me.

Now having said all that, after everything I've managed to do, I still only think about the one word that comes to me every time I type "The End"

Next.

 

[NotWise]

Have you quit your day job?

 

[lovecraft68]

Have you quit your day job?

I wish. I've done all this while working full time and I also maintain an e-bay store because I keep buying and flipping comic collections.

My motto is I'll rest when I'm dead.

Writing is a decent additional income, but not enough to live on. My wife is self employed and has been the last few years so I still need medical benefits.

It's pretty rare to do it for a living as a self published author-unless your spouse is killing it and money doesn't matter- but is extra income and as much-at least for me- about the thrill and fun of it.

The same way some here get excited over H's and vote totals is me with new books and sales.

 

[SimonDoom]

You have every right to crow a little and I think it's useful for people to hear it. You've accomplished a lot in 10 years. It's good for newer authors to get a taste of what more experienced authors have done.

Here's my question for you, and for other authors who publish erotic stories out there for money: is it really worth it? Do you make enough to justify the work involved? (I'm not asking you to give me any details or figures -- just your impression) My impression is that, except in rare, lightning-strike cases, you can make something but not enough to quit the day job, or even close to that. I've thought about trying it, but unless the remuneration can replace the day job compensation to at least some degree I don't see how it's worth venturing beyond Literotica and continuing to do this as a hobby rather than a job.

 

[lovecraft68]

You have every right to crow a little and I think it's useful for people to hear it. You've accomplished a lot in 10 years. It's good for newer authors to get a taste of what more experienced authors have done.

Here's my question for you, and for other authors who publish erotic stories out there for money: is it really worth it? Do you make enough to justify the work involved? (I'm not asking you to give me any details or figures -- just your impression) My impression is that, except in rare, lightning-strike cases, you can make something but not enough to quit the day job, or even close to that. I've thought about trying it, but unless the remuneration can replace the day job compensation to at least some degree I don't see how it's worth venturing beyond Literotica and continuing to do this as a hobby rather than a job.

There's not a lot of expense involved. Covers can be done for $25 or if you have some photo shop skill you could make your own and stock sites like Bigstock have subscriptions where for $79 for a month you can download 5 photos a day so you can stock up and not renew the script.

Formatting is fairly easy and there is a free program called Calibre and others to convert to e-pub mobi, etc. Sites take between 15%-35% of your sale rest is yours.

As far as money goes, its like lit. You start with a few readers, you keep[ putting out stories and get more readers....same in the market, your first couple of books might sell a handful each, but the more you add the more new buyers you get and they go back and buy your other work.

The great thing about an e-book is once its up, it stays up. I still pick up sales here and there for books I put out years ago, and whenever you have a new book out people will tend to buy that and maybe a couple of others. Smashwords sends e-mails each time you get a sale so you know if someone bought multiple books, its the only site that does

I know people that barely make few dollars a month, I know people that make several hundred a month and that's kind of upper tier unless you happen to catch that lightning in a bottle book.

You never know until you try, but mostly to your point there's little overhead in doing it.

Edited to add it depends on content, niche stuff like incest sells very well on smashwords and the few other places that carry it. Hotwife/cuck is a big seller on amazon(and no nasty reviews like here in LW paying crowd is very different) and milf is very popular-and easy to write.

But if you're writing 'general erotica' you may not sell as much.

 

[RelentlessOnanism]

Also, where can you publish ebooks that accept incest/taboo content? I'm an incest purist and have zero interest in writing stories that don't feature family fucking. I know Amazon won't allow that sort of content, but do other online publishers take a different view?

 

[lovecraft68]

Also, where can you publish ebooks that accept incest/taboo content? I'm an incest purist and have zero interest in writing stories that don't feature family fucking. I know Amazon won't allow that sort of content, but do other online publishers take a different view?

Smashwords
Carnal Pleasures
Some of Stealth's European affiliates sell it as well.

As for amazon not allowing it....they say they don't, but you can find it everywhere and it sells well, but once every so often someone complains and they do a "how did that get there" witch hunt and ban a ton of accounts so its best not to try it.

 

[TxRad]

LC, good posts.

The old saying, nothing ventured, nothing gained always applies. Even if you make enough each month to cover your, say, electric bill, it beats having to pay it out of pocket. Anyway, if you save up for a year, you might even have enough for a vacation.

Good on you.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Here's my question for you, and for other authors who publish erotic stories out there for money: is it really worth it? Do you make enough to justify the work involved?

I gave it a shot, just to see what happened. I sold a hundred bucks worth of books in a year, which means I'm still two hundred bucks in the red with my costs - one far too pricey cover, twenty ISBNs in my own name, and a year's rent on an empty PO Box so I could do the ISBN registration without disclosing my home address. Plus the cost of my own copy of the print books.

I have a little self-indulgent bookshelf with some nice covers, and maybe twenty people have been gracious enough to buy something; but I can't see myself spending any more time.

The effort to get 200 - 300 page Word documents formatted and copy edited to a 99.99% perfect point was beyond belief. I've got far better things to do with my time.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

... twenty ISBNs in my own name, and a year's rent on an empty PO Box so I could do the ISBN registration without disclosing my home address. Plus the cost of my own copy of the print books.

The effort to get 200 - 300 page Word documents formatted and copy edited to a 99.99% perfect point was beyond belief. I've got far better things to do with my time.

Could you explain more about the ISBNs? I've been reading through Smashwords instructions and t&C's and thinking about posting an anthology and novel there.

If you register an ISBN is it just the ISBN authorities who would have your address - they aren't available to the public, surely?

 

[lovecraft68]

I gave it a shot, just to see what happened. I sold a hundred bucks worth of books in a year, which means I'm still two hundred bucks in the red with my costs - one far too pricey cover, twenty ISBNs in my own name, and a year's rent on an empty PO Box so I could do the ISBN registration without disclosing my home address. Plus the cost of my own copy of the print books.

I have a little self-indulgent bookshelf with some nice covers, and maybe twenty people have been gracious enough to buy something; but I can't see myself spending any more time.

The effort to get 200 - 300 page Word documents formatted and copy edited to a 99.99% perfect point was beyond belief. I've got far better things to do with my time.

But what you did was full length novels and sadly they don't seem to do as well. My serious erotic horror novels sell a fraction of what my smut does.

If you're writing fun smut that you'd put here anyway,but just grab an affordable cover, its less overhead and faster profit. Even editing, I do my best, have a person that looks it over at no charge and I publish, if there's a mistake or two well, simply put its a 2.99 e-book about a mother and a son, we're not talking the NYT list and like here, a lot of people are forgiving of a couple errors.

I found someone to edit and format my novels for a combined price of less than $500 but I also do the cons which gives me a chance to sell in person and get that money back. Only sales only I don't have a lot of success.

Also....you can say you tried.

 

[lovecraft68]

Could you explain more about the ISBNs? I've been reading through Smashwords instructions and t&C's and thinking about posting an anthology and novel there.

If you register an ISBN is it just the ISBN authorities who would have your address - they aren't available to the public, surely?

If you're only doing an e-book, you can get a free one through smashwords. For novels if you go through Createspace they assign you one as well for free, except they're down as publisher. Creatspace has your real information, but I don't think its openly on record...not sure.

The free ones through Smashwords I don't think they can get that info.

If you get picked up by a publisher you don't worry about them, they do.

Sounds like EB went all in and purchased one and as he said had to register for it. They're not worth spending money on. Regardless of who the ISBN came from you have have the rights to your books

 

[lovecraft68]

LC, good posts.

The old saying, nothing ventured, nothing gained always applies. Even if you make enough each month to cover your, say, electric bill, it beats having to pay it out of pocket. Anyway, if you save up for a year, you might even have enough for a vacation.

Good on you.

I'm doing a lot better than a vacation a year....just not on a nine book deal or anything like that

 

[ElectricBlue]

Sounds like EB went all in and purchased one and as he said had to register for it. They're not worth spending money on. Regardless of who the ISBN came from you have have the rights to your books

Different countries have different rules, but the essential thing is, whoever owns the ISBN is the lawful publisher (with some details in the public domain). If you buy them, as I did in Australia, you register as a publisher ($80) - hence the PO Box - and the ISBNs then cost $80 for ten.

The outfits LC mentions, who give you a free ISBN, are the publishers, which makes the income you earn from those books royalties, which are taxable - and withheld by American publishers and distributors, for example. I did a bunch of homework with hopeless optimism, and found a whole bunch of subtleties regarding the taxman, all of which are academic because... $100!!

To answer your question, Kumquatqueen - different countries, different rules.

I also established that the often quoted belief that you have to take down free content on Literotica if you want to distribute through Amazon isn't true. That's because Amazon sell books, which are commodities that can be purchased and owned, whereas you can't buy anything from Literotica. Content is not the same as product.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I was strolling through to waive hello to the folks hanging in the coffee shop, but I need to sit in this class and take notes on these lessons. Thanks for these insights!

Like many (most?) writers here, I’ve definitely thought it would be cool to write/publish for-profit. But similar to Simon and EB’s points, unless I catch lightning in a bottle and rake in “bookoo” bucks, any realized income would end up being very costly for me tax wise. Tbph, last year, I considered whether it would be worth it to do this for-profit to take a slight tax write off on my anticipated losses... if anyone else here is in the same bucket, that may be something to consider.

I published "Weekends With Mom" a tweaked version of my first Lit mother son story Weekends with Laura on Smashwords. I sold seven copies that month and my first royalty payment through paypal was $13.76.

Just like I never saw myself doing much on lit when I started here in May 2010 I never saw myself doing with publishing, just figured I'd give it a shot.

I published e-book #164 yesterday. I have half dozen books in paperback and have had the pleasure of selling them in person at over two dozen comic cons, horror cons and book events.

According to my spreadsheets I've sold a hair over 100,000 e-books on SW, Amazon, B/N, Publish Drive, Stealth and all their affiliates....

that is amazing, congrats!

 

[8letters]

I published "Weekends With Mom" a tweaked version of my first Lit mother son story Weekends with Laura on Smashwords. I sold seven copies that month and my first royalty payment through paypal was $13.76.

Just like I never saw myself doing much on lit when I started here in May 2010 I never saw myself doing with publishing, just figured I'd give it a shot.

I published e-book #164 yesterday. I have half dozen books in paperback and have had the pleasure of selling them in person at over two dozen comic cons, horror cons and book events.

According to my spreadsheets I've sold a hair over 100,000 e-books on SW, Amazon, B/N, Publish Drive, Stealth and all their affiliates.

Congrats!

To me, you're one of the most successful writers LitE has produced. If you can't turn it into a full-time job, there isn't much hope for the rest of us.

 

[yowser]

Here's my question for you, and for other authors who publish erotic stories out there for money: is it really worth it? Do you make enough to justify the work involved?

Just for comparison-kicks, in the 14th-15th centuries a writer would be paid about the rate of a shilling per 3000-6000 words, depending on the type of work. A yearly scribal wage reported in 1372 was 2£ 3s (but also included free room and board.) Spell checking was a bit different then, but hard work for a writer regardless of the era.

 

[macymadison]

Just wanted to say congratulations, it’s wonderful to see when authors succeed no matter what you’re writing.
Also that Lot’s Cave also publishes incest and bestiality. Just in case.

 

[AvroAnsonXIX]

I know this sounds like a brag thread, and I am proud of what I've done, but I want the message to anyone reading this who has wanted to sell, and is hesitant to try, to do it. Why not me? Was my thought, and why not you?

Congratulations. You should be proud. It's an accomplishment, to an extent if you don't blow you own horn nobody does. (Truly anyone can do it. And watch out, I'm just 161 books behind you! )

Most of the people who were here when I started are gone, many of those gave me some advice and helped me out ...

Yes, it is sad, like you many that I felt a kinship with are gone. Some pushed aside by the wind of public opinion and the witch hunt of the day. IIRC in a recent thread you told someone else that the best reason to use the commercial market was artistic freedom. That is so true, in the free market people who hate broccoli don't spend their money to buy broccoli so they can complain about broccoli being green.

I have only published three collections, but they mostly include my stories that were purged from the free sites because stories about sex apparently makes some readers of erotic fiction uncomfortable. (The four decades the survivors of the Shark Bay shipwreck spent on the island is part of the history of WA whether people are uncomfortable with the consensual things the family members did together or not.)

 

[lovecraft68]

I was strolling through to waive hello to the folks hanging in the coffee shop, but I need to sit in this class and take notes on these lessons. Thanks for these insights!

Like many (most?) writers here, I’ve definitely thought it would be cool to write/publish for-profit. But similar to Simon and EB’s points, unless I catch lightning in a bottle and rake in “bookoo” bucks, any realized income would end up being very costly for me tax wise. Tbph, last year, I considered whether it would be worth it to do this for-profit to take a slight tax write off on my anticipated losses... if anyone else here is in the same bucket, that may be something to consider.



that is amazing, congrats!

You can also wrote off book covers, editing and formatting costs, and like any other home business, internet and other expenses. I managed to not get killed on taxes partly because the cons aren't cheap ($450 a booth for most of them) and I write that off, any money I spend there on food, gas etc...and of course if people use cash well....maybe I forgot to log that sale in

But being part of the association of RI authors I am state tax exempt under being an "artist'

 

[Bramblethorn]

Congrats!

 

[AvroAnsonXIX]

But similar to Simon and EB’s points, unless I catch lightning in a bottle and rake in “bookoo” bucks, any realized income would end up being very costly for me tax wise ...

I don't know where you live or what the tax code is there. I set up a separate account and donate the proceeds to a charity and it never gets counted as my income.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I'm in the UK, where negligible royalties aren't taxed. Though I may have to start doing tax returns anyway in the next year or two.

"you will only need to register to complete a tax return for the first time if your income from royalties is above £1,000 in the tax year, which runs from 6 April to 5th April (assuming you have no other self-employed income that takes you above the threshold)."

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

You can also wrote off book covers, editing and formatting costs, and like any other home business, internet and other expenses. I managed to not get killed on taxes partly because the cons aren't cheap ($450 a booth for most of them) and I write that off, any money I spend there on food, gas etc...and of course if people use cash well....maybe I forgot to log that sale in

But being part of the association of RI authors I am state tax exempt under being an "artist'

Some of those expenses had crossed my mind and seemed enticing ways to catch a break. But I certainly hadn’t thought of things like events and cons. Good night, moon—$450 just for a booth?? You obviously are selling a lot of books and definitely able to take a few vacays if you can make those payoff!

In NYS, performing artists have reduced taxes so long as they earn under a certain amount (but that’s the crux; no one can actually afford to live here for less than the income bracket cap). New York is far behind RI with writers; writers have to pay state taxes.

I don't know where you live or what the tax code is there. I set up a separate account and donate the proceeds to a charity and it never gets counted as my income.

Doing that wouldn’t work for me since I already have charitable deductions I itemize, so it would still be a zero net gain. But it’s an interesting point, and a good reminder to everybody to consider tax implications and costs, for whatever writing venture you consider, and structure and plan accordingly for your own circumstances.


Enough about tax—let’s talk about tits lol

 

[SimonDoom]

Enough about tax—let’s talk about tits lol

Surely there's a way of combining the two in an erotic story?

You know, tax day is coming up (although I think it's been extended this year). That could be a good erotic story event concept: The Tax Day story event. Lots of hot accountant and enrolled agent action.