On Fascism: For Your Consideration.

[lesbiaphrodite]

Get Your Fascist Freak On!

by Alison Ross , 01.13.2007

It has become increasingly, glaringly, embarrassingly obvious to many Americans that our country is in the throes of nascent fascism.


It has become increasingly, glaringly, embarrassingly obvious to many Americans that our country is in the throes of nascent fascism. It has also become increasingly, glaringly, embarrassingly obvious to many Americans that our country is in the throes of nascent stupidity. Well, no, scratch that. We are not in the throes of nascent stupidity; we are a stupid nation in full bloom; therefore we are suffering adolescent stupidity. "Stupid hormones" surging and raging, our adolescent stupidity is a menace to all adult nations of the world. Admittedly, there aren't too many adult nations in our midst, but anyway, that's not that point, so shut up.

So seeing as America is both fascist and stupid, the question naturally arises: is the rise of stupidity necessarily congruent with the rise of fascism? In other words, as a nation grows more politically paranoid, does it concurrently grow more culturally unimaginative? It would seem so, especially after careful scrutiny of Dr. Britt's 14 Points of Fascism (http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html ) combined with close observation of American media and pop culture.

Granted, pop culture is rife with stupidity anyway, even in the most advanced democracy. But fascism seems to imbue culture with even more egregious vapidity.

To wit, here are some points of Freaky Fascism paired with their Stupidity Cultural Counterparts:

Freaky Fascist Point:

Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.

Stupidity Cultural Counterparts:

Fox News. Fox News grew out of the same totalitarian philosophy that propels Bush and his cronies. Fox News and other copycat new shows reveal no insights into the issues that affect us, and instead serve up simplistic, jingoistic pap that merely poses as news that edifies and enlighten.

"Fox News: Scary Imbalanced."

Pervasive American flags. American flags jutting from housefronts and storefronts flap dumbly in the wind, bumper sticker banners bearing the stars and stripes and yellow ribbon adhesives scream from oil-sucking SUVs and hideously Herculean Hummers ... all menacingly and stupidly asserting American supremacy, as though the preponderance of buildings that display painted pieces of cloth and blatantly bulky vehicles announce a supremely enlightened populace.

Freaky Fascist Point:

The supremacy of the military/avid militarism.

Stupidity Cultural Counterparts:

Military and war video games. It's bad enough that the American military is a freakzillion dollar business, but now we have video games crafted for pubescent males that fetishize the military mindset. Oh, sure, these games are rated to purportedly protect tender minds, but the rating system is so dubious that the most horrifically violent videos slip into the hungry hands of pre-teens every day. Next blockbuster video game to hit the market: "Uzi-Toting Toddlers on Toy Store Rampage!"

Freaky Fascist Point:

Rampant sexism.

Stupidity Cultural Counterparts:

Cooking and cleaning commercials that predominantly feature females. Observing American commercials that promote cleaning products and various brands of food and culinary tools, you'd think that males were an extinct species. But rumor has it that men CAN actually use a dust cloth and stir a pot. At press time, the spokespeople for Hamburger Helper and Glade had not yet gotten wind of this revolutionary bit of scuttlebutt.

Game shows featuring scantily clad women. Um, isn't it about time we had mindless game shows featuring sculpted hunks donning weenie-wrappers and thongs? And no, I don't mean GAY men, who still merely cater to MEN; I mean straight soap opera-hot hunks who cater to straight women and our lascivious libidos.

Of course, I am not averse to luscious lesbians or hunky homo men on quiz shows catering to the queer sector. Just give us anything to balance out the ubiquitous bikinied bimbo beckoning the moronic hetero male with her open suitcases spilling with monetary treasures. It's old, already, and time for some "sexism equilibrium."

TV shows like "Sex and The City" and "Desperate Housewives." These shows, which act like they're so forward-thinking, merely trot out the tired old idea of women needing men to anchor them, and do nothing to promote the independent femme who eschews men for a blissfully child-free single life. This is not to say that women shouldn't get married or have children, but it is to say that this is not the only paradigm for women, as so many shows seem to suggest. Bring on the next episode of "Burning Bra Babes" and see it ignite TV screens with a brash portrayal of that subversive species, the childless, husbandless STRAIGHT female!

Freaky Fascist Point:

Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts.

Stupidity Cultural Counterparts:

Abundant bad TV. Okay, fine, "bad TV" is redundant. Still, with vacuous quiz shows like "Deal or No Deal" , pointless soap-opera reality shows like "The Bachelor " , Empty-V and its sundry spawn of inane shows and silly unimaginative sitcoms, TV has sunk to an even lower low.

Pervasive lowbrow culture in the musical and literary arts. Gangsta rap is glamorized, vacuous novels and self-help books soar to the thrones of best seller lists, People magazine and its countless copycats populate grocery store isles...

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with mindless entertainment, provided it's balanced by a healthy highbrow culture. But lowbrow culture predominates to the point that highbrow culture is now considered elitist, when it should be as eagerly embraced as pop culture.

There are many other Freaky Fascist Points/Stupidity Cultural Counterpart pairings, such as controlled mass media (which would describe all mainstream news outlets), obsession with national security (which would describe a show like "24" ), obsession with crime and punishment (which would describe shows like "Cops" and the various law and order type shows), power of corporations protected (which would describe the role of commercials), and so on.

But I think I'll leave it to YOU, dear reader, to do your own Fascism/Stupidity pairings! It's fast, fun, and best of all, FREE!

The conclusion from all of this? That fascism breeds stupidity, because fascism IS stupidity.

Now leave me alone. I'm getting ready to wiggle into my French maid's costume so I can dust my living room while watching "Cops."

 

[rgraham666]

Actually we're becoming corporatist rather than fascist. In fact, corporatism is closely intertwined with fascism. Because we've reduced the last major outbreak of fascism to pure, stupid evil we've forgotten this.

And authoritarian governments are not necessarily stupid. All of them, from monarchy to communism had very smart people trying to figure out how to make them work.

The problem with authoritarianism in all its stripes is that they are essentially elitist. Only a few people ever really enjoy the fruits of citizenry. Those outside the centers of power are reduced to things, expendable things, not worthy of the good life. Often they have to be destroyed to avoid polluting the purity of the system. This can be done actively through concentration camps or gulags. Or passively as it is in our system.

I'm of the opinion that humans prefer authoritarian systems. Democracy, freedom, requires taking personal responsibility for your actions. Humans don't like responsibility.

In an authoritarian system, the system takes on the responsibility. The individual, therefore, is never at fault. Even the people at the top are never at fault as they do only what the system demands.

Given this unpleasant fact it's hardly surprising our society is changing the way it is.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Miss Ross has probably never even read the definition for the word Fascism.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

That's funny. I actually think she has a pretty good idea of what it means. The thing is that fascism is always morphing, always becoming more insidious.

See "Ghosts of Abu Ghraib," a recent documentary now available on DVD and see that American fascism is alive and well.

 

[rgraham666]

That's true of every form of political philosophy. We still have a Monarchist League here in Canada.

As long as people are people none of the authoritarian ideals will die out.

 

[Pure]

What is fascism? [Interesting thread lesbia!]

zeb Miss Ross has probably never even read the definition for the word Fascism

pure: She used Britt's list, which is pretty commonly cited. I find it a litlle too detailed, and the basics are not so clear. For example, the authority of the leader is not on a par with bad tv and sexism.


For something more 'classical' by way of definition:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html

Mussolini 1932

What is fascism?



...The Fascist accepts life and loves it, knowing nothing of and despising suicide: he rather conceives of life as duty and struggle and conquest, but above all for others -- those who are at hand and those who are far distant, contemporaries, and those who will come after...

...Fascism [is] the complete opposite of…Marxian Socialism, the materialist conception of history of human civilization can be explained simply through the conflict of interests among the various social groups and by

the change and development in the means and instruments of production.... Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect.

And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it

follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history. And above all Fascism denies that class-war can be the preponderant force in the transformation of society....

After Socialism, Fascism combats the whole complex system of democratic ideology, and repudiates it, whether in its theoretical premises or in its practical application. Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society;

it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal

suffrage....

...Fascism denies, in democracy, the absur[d] conventional untruth of political equality dressed out in the garb of collective irresponsibility, and the myth of "happiness" and indefinite progress....

...given that the nineteenth century was the century of Socialism, of Liberalism, and of Democracy, it does not necessarily follow that the twentieth century must also be a century of Socialism, Liberalism and

Democracy: political doctrines pass, but humanity remains, and it may rather be expected that this will be a century of authority...a century of Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it
may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State....

The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only
to be conceived of in their relation to the State. The conception of the Liberal State is not that of a

directing force, guiding the play and development, both material and spiritual, of a collective body, but merely a force limited to the function of recording results: on the other hand, the Fascist State is itself
conscious and has itself a will and a personality -- thus it may be called the "ethic" State....

...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding
power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....

...For Fascism, the growth of empire, that is to say the expansion of the nation, is an essential manifestation of vitality, and its opposite a sign of decadence.

------

Later writers have clarified certain areas, e.g. the fascist state's 'cozy' relationship with religious and corporate leaders.
Hitler had the nice word Gleichschaltung (coordination), meaning that the elements of society "mesh" and get along, and that, the corporations, unions [as reformed by the state], churches, whatever, are 'on the same side' , i.e. supportive of state measures.


The Encarta encyclopedia has a decent and rather full discussion of the various fascisms, common and distinguishing elements, etc.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761568245/Fascism.html


Often there is a view of an undesirable class with society, which is scapegoated for society's ills.

RG is right that corporatism is close; very close in Mussolini. So is authoritarianism, which follows from the contempt for --or lip service to--democracy.

====

There are, of course, many 'fascisms': salazar was not pinochet and pinochet was not hitler, etc.

The degree to which the US fits, is subject to debate, though i'm reminded of all the debates about 'executive privilege,' the untrammeled powers of the commander-in-chief. Dick Cheney's privileged palavers with the oil industry come to mind.

Can one have a fascist-like state with some of the trappings of democracy? I think so; researchers point to the current, essentially fascistic movements in France and Austria. Certainly the fascist state likes people 'on side' and cheering, and it follows that when the state had not brought trouble, it could, if it wanted, use democratic referenda to approve its policies.

 

[rgraham666]

Can one have a fascist-like state with some of the trappings of democracy? I think so; researchers point to the current, essentially fascistic movements in France and Austria. Certainly the fascist state likes people 'on side' and cheering, and it follows that when the state had not brought trouble, it could, if it wanted, use democratic referenda to approve its policies.

Yes. That how Napoleon operated, through referendums. And Hitler rose to power through referendums.

It's wrong to confuse referendums with democracy. Referendums tend to deform democracy by reducing it to a 'yes/no' situation. As my favourite writer puts it, 'the vote is the punctuation of the democratic sentence. Normally this will be a careful question mark, sometimes a period and occasionally an exclamation point. But on its own the punctuation is meaningless.'

Referendums lend themselves to use of authoritarians. They're much more suited to the politics of ideology than democracy. Referendums are always worded so that a no vote will be responsible for bringing on the Apocalypse, a yes avoids it.

And as Malraux, I believe, said, "The slave always votes yes."

 

[Recidiva]

Fortunately I am not fascist, I am not stupid, I am American.

I also know what fascism means.

The less time that goes into blaming and naming, and the more work that goes into actually making the world a better place, possibly beginning with working on attitude, might be called for here.

 

[flavortang]

I think the problem with Fascism in the Totalitarian sense is that it isn't good for business or profit, so if there is a new fascism, it's more imperceptible. We won't have a new Nazism because it'd be too obvious. It's not about control and imprisonment of freedoms anymore, it's about allowing people to have a certain degree of freedom, illusion of freedom, within certain borders that allow capitalism to flourish. The best way to imprison someone is to make them think they're still free.

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

Great stuff here. Double-plus good (wink).

I think I read somewhere once upon a time that the true power of totalitarianism lies in its ability to get inside the human mind and make it believe itself inferior to the totalitarian state and no longer question it.

Questioning is what leads to progress. The absence of questioning is what ends it.

 

[Recidiva]

I think the problem with Fascism in the Totalitarian sense is that it isn't good for business or profit, so if there is a new fascism, it's more imperceptible. We won't have a new Nazism because it'd be too obvious. It's not about control and imprisonment of freedoms anymore, it's about allowing people to have a certain degree of freedom, illusion of freedom, within certain borders that allow capitalism to flourish. The best way to imprison someone is to make them think they're still free.

And the best way to blame a government is to posit that there's a perfect government where those in the government are all free of human flaws and motivations, and that those people are somehow carrying all blame.

Freedoms are things you fight for and earned. Rarely is a freedom that's granted, appreciated. Take for instance, we're all free to breathe. Nobody's restricting that. And nobody argues about air rights and air suppression. Because nobody tolerates that. Government goes as far as the people tolerate it, until they overthrow their government and become just as misguided in the opposite direction.

Occasionally there are mellow periods where someone with wisdom and experience and a knowledge of history and human nature rules benignly. But that is much more up to the individual in power, not to the people who put them there. Because it's easy to elect a liar who promises and doesn't deliver, than to elect a realist who makes no promises they know they can't keep.

 

[Recidiva]

Great stuff here. Double-plus good (wink).

I think I read somewhere once upon a time that the true power of totalitarianism lies in its ability to get inside the human mind and make it believe itself inferior to the totalitarian state and no longer question it.

Questioning is what leads to progress. The absence of questioning is what ends it.

Yes, that's also the state of slavery, and the state of being emotionally and physically or politically abused until you feel completely helpless. There is nobody to rescue you and nobody who cares. In this case, however, there is just so much competition going on that we hardly see helplessness and silence, we just listen to the complainers and pay little attention to those doing the actual work of getting on with their lives, doing what's right, and being decent human beings. They're not getting any press, but they exist.

 

[rgraham666]

Great stuff here. Double-plus good (wink).

I think I read somewhere once upon a time that the true power of totalitarianism lies in its ability to get inside the human mind and make it believe itself inferior to the totalitarian state and no longer question it.

Questioning is what leads to progress. The absence of questioning is what ends it.

I recommend this book, Escape From Freedom. It goes into great depth as to why people embrace authoritarianism.

It made me aware that the idea of the person as individual is a very recent one. Until recently we, here in The West at least, tended to regard ourselves as members of a class rather than ourselves. There are still strong echoes of that in today's world.

And getting stronger in my opinion.

 

[Pure]

I think the problem with Fascism in the Totalitarian sense is that it isn't good for business or profit,

not sure what you mean, here flavor. certainly the big German businesses did OK--or better--under Hitler, and except for the inconvenience of invasion, occupation, etc., most emerged and prospered after, some until this day. i *think* this is true of italy, too.

perhaps Mao had a problem with business and profit, but i see no point in calling every tyrrany or dictatorial/totalitarian state a 'fascist' one.

---
Rec said, [We]pay little attention to those doing the actual work of getting on with their lives, doing what's right, and being decent human beings.

I'm sure there are lots of these 'common men' or 'common women.' But larger issues necessarily affect them, e.g. their son in the national guard gets held over in Iraq for another year. When they are 'apolitical', they are essentially swept along with whatever tide there is.

Also, if voting is any indication, the 'common person' has a tendency to get sidetracked (IMO) with 'hot button' issues. If one candidate has helpful polices that would benefit the kids, and the other has no such policies, but (for example) opposes gay marriage, the latter will often secure the common person's support.

----

i agre, rg, the longing for an Authority is pretty basic and pretty common. After all, we were all raised under such authority, ie. that could decide when the crying baby is to be fed. Lots of families are essentially dictatorships, even if not 'fascist.' And if you talk to both kids and adults--even ones with apparently bad parents-- the vast majority describe parents in glowing terms. So to say, the parent is a 'benevolent fascist.' I'm reminded of Plath's poem "Daddy", which say, iirc "every woman loves a fascist." (I don't know about evidence that her dad WAS especially harsh or dictatorial.)

 

[rgraham666]

I think the problem with Fascism in the Totalitarian sense is that it isn't good for business or profit, so if there is a new fascism, it's more imperceptible. We won't have a new Nazism because it'd be too obvious. It's not about control and imprisonment of freedoms anymore, it's about allowing people to have a certain degree of freedom, illusion of freedom, within certain borders that allow capitalism to flourish. The best way to imprison someone is to make them think they're still free.

On the contrary, the business community loves authoritarian governments. Why do you think that they're falling over themselves to do business with China? Which is ostensibly Communist but has morphed into a purer totalitarian state.

Because totalitarian governments suit commerce. The same people stay in positions of political power forever. There's little change in employment laws, environmental protection, monetary law etc. There's often slave labor which is really good for business. Anyone who bitches is shut up, permanently and in a big hurry.

As my favourite author puts it, "Capitalism was content under Hitler, happy under Mussolini, very happy under Franco and delirious under Pinochet."

 

[flavortang]

I think the problem with Fascism in the Totalitarian sense is that it isn't good for business or profit,

not sure what you mean, here flavor. certainly the big German businesses did OK--or better--under Hitler, and except for the inconvenience of invasion, occupation, etc., most emerged and prospered after, some until this day. i *think* this is true of italy, too.

perhaps Mao had a problem with business and profit, but i see no point in calling every tyrrany or dictatorial/totalitarian state a 'fascist' one.

---
Rec said, [We]pay little attention to those doing the actual work of getting on with their lives, doing what's right, and being decent human beings.

I'm sure there are lots of these 'common men' or 'common women.' But larger issues necessarily affect them, e.g. their son in the national guard gets held over in Iraq for another year. When they are 'apolitical', they are essentially swept along with whatever tide there is.

Also, if voting is any indication, the 'common person' has a tendency to get sidetracked (IMO) with 'hot button' issues. If one candidate has helpful polices that would benefit the kids, and the other has no such policies, but (for example) opposes gay marriage, the latter will often secure the common person's support.

That's exactly the problem. Totalitarian regimes don't last. It's good for short-term business but in the long-term it's easier to have a control system that gives it citizens the illusion of freedom so they can quell any notions of slavery, literally or figuratively.

 

[Recidiva]

That's exactly the problem. Totalitarian regimes don't last. It's good for short-term business but in the long-term it's easier to have a control system that gives it citizens the illusion of freedom so they can quell any notions of slavery, literally or figuratively.

For argument's sake, what is an illusion of freedom in this context?

 

[Recidiva]

Rec said, [We]pay little attention to those doing the actual work of getting on with their lives, doing what's right, and being decent human beings.

I'm sure there are lots of these 'common men' or 'common women.' But larger issues necessarily affect them, e.g. their son in the national guard gets held over in Iraq for another year. When they are 'apolitical', they are essentially swept along with whatever tide there is.

Their kids weren't forced to join the national guard. I have lots of people in my family voluntarily in the military. I think that the point is that if you join voluntarily at the legal age, you should be adult enough to be aware of the risks. If you make an unreasoned judgment with some logic like "I'm going to count on the idea that the army doesn't go to war" I don't have all that much sympathy. It's a bit like starting smoking and being surprised at cancer. It wasn't mandatory. Totalitarian and fascist states make things like that mandatory.

 

[flavortang]

For argument's sake, what is an illusion of freedom in this context?

It would be setting up a culture of consumerism where news organizations are owned by corporate entities. Where everything is targeted at making people into passive consumers who have no interest in the democratic process. Any culture where the news companies, tasked with telling us the important events of the day, spend more than 30 seconds telling us about Paris Hilton MUST be flawed.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country, I just hate politicians who set the stage for these profit hungry groups to control the flow of information that allows for people to make decisions about the very democratic process that gives us our freedoms.

 

[Pure]

Daddy

by Sylvia Plath


Daddy,
You do not do, you do not do
Any more, black shoe
In which I have lived like a foot
For thirty years, poor and white,
Barely daring to breathe or Achoo.

Daddy, I have had to kill you.
You died before I had time---
Marble-heavy, a bag full of God,
Ghastly statue with one gray toe
Big as a Frisco seal

And a head in the freakish Atlantic
Where it pours bean green over blue
In the waters off the beautiful Nauset.
I used to pray to recover you.
Ach, du.

In the German tongue, in the Polish town
Scraped flat by the roller
Of wars, wars, wars.
But the name of the town is common.
My Polack friend

Says there are a dozen or two.
So I never could tell where you
Put your foot, your root,
I never could talk to you.
The tongue stuck in my jaw.

It stuck in a barb wire snare.
Ich, ich, ich, ich,
I could hardly speak.
I thought every German was you.
And the language obscene

An engine, an engine,
Chuffing me off like a Jew.
A Jew to Dachau, Auschwitz, Belsen.
I began to talk like a Jew.
I think I may well be a Jew.

The snows of the Tyrol, the clear beer of Vienna
Are not very pure or true.
With my gypsy ancestress and my weird luck
And my Taroc pack and my Taroc pack
I may be a bit of a Jew.

I have always been sacred of you,
With your Luftwaffe, your gobbledygoo.
And your neat mustache
And your Aryan eye, bright blue.
Panzer-man, panzer-man, O You----

Not God but a swastika
So black no sky could squeak through.
Every woman adores a Fascist,
The boot in the face, the brute
Brute heart of a brute like you.

You stand at the blackboard, daddy,
In the picture I have of you,
A cleft in your chin instead of your foot
But no less a devil for that, no not
Any less the black man who

Bit my pretty red heart in two.
I was ten when they buried you.
At twenty I tried to die
And get back, back, back to you.
I thought even the bones would do.

But they pulled me out of the sack,
And they stuck me together with glue.
And then I knew what to do.
I made a model of you,
A man in black with a Meinkampf look

And a love of the rack and the screw.
And I said I do, I do.
So daddy, I'm finally through.
The black telephone's off at the root,
The voices just can't worm through.

If I've killed one man, I've killed two---
The vampire who said he was you
And drank my blood for a year,
Seven years, if you want to know.
Daddy, you can lie back now.

There's a stake in your fat black heart
And the villagers never liked you.
They are dancing and stamping on you.
They always knew it was you.
Daddy, daddy, you bastard, I'm through.

 

[cumallday]

Not to threadjack, but the definition of fascism got me questioning how thin the line is between fascism and neoconservatism. I say this after recently having read the following:

"Why of course, the people don't want war, that is understood. But, after all, it is the leadrers of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country". -Herman Goering, 1946.

I don't believe it's too much of a stretch to imagine these words spewing out of the mouths of Dick Cheney, Stephen Harper, John Howard, etc.

 

[Recidiva]

It would be setting up a culture of consumerism where news organizations are owned by corporate entities. Where everything is targeted at making people into passive consumers who have no interest in the democratic process. Any culture where the news companies, tasked with telling us the important events of the day, spend more than 30 seconds telling us about Paris Hilton MUST be flawed.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country, I just hate politicians who set the stage for these profit hungry groups to control the flow of information that allows for people to make decisions about the very democratic process that gives us our freedoms.

And what about folks like me that don't really watch TV and I'm not particularly ambitious or corporate?

I'm not buying.

In totalitarian or fascist states, there are no options to watch or not watch, buy or not buy.

I have no faith that media or politicians exist for me. That's an illusion in my world. Politicians and the media are parasitic organizations. I pay taxes for the roads and the post office, and that's good enough for me.

I don't have to get involved in the rest if I step carefully. And anyone who expects a completely clear path where you don't have to step carefully is in trouble. It's not a pretty world. But if freedom CAN exist, and I believe it does in my case, it is possible. It's just hard. And it includes not buying into politics or media at all.

 

[flavortang]

And what about folks like me that don't really watch TV and I'm not particularly ambitious or corporate?

I'm not buying.

In totalitarian or fascist states, there are no options to watch or not watch, buy or not buy.

I have no faith that media or politicians exist for me. That's an illusion in my world. Politicians and the media are parasitic organizations. I pay taxes for the roads and the post office, and that's good enough for me.

I don't have to get involved in the rest if I step carefully. And anyone who expects a completely clear path where you don't have to step carefully is in trouble. It's not a pretty world. But if freedom CAN exist, and I believe it does in my case, it is possible. It's just hard. And it includes not buying into politics or media at all.

You don't have to watch TV to get swept into it all. Advertising is everywhere and if lack of information infects everyone around you, 'free-minded' people are forced to deal with the choices their peers make.

On everything else you said, I whole-heartedly agree.

 

[Recidiva]

You don't have to watch TV to get swept into it all. Advertising is everywhere and if lack of information infects everyone around you, 'free-minded' people are forced to deal with the choices their peers make.

On everything else you said, I whole-heartedly agree.

Yes, but I work at home, I don't need to go out much. I have spent years of my life not watching the TV and treating all other forms of ads and media as art or humor. When my daughter was young I hated seeing what commercials and ads did to her, so we shut off the TV completely for a year. It had a profound effect on my thoughts and my willingness to buy into it. I've never watched the TV with the same attitude again. It took effort to do it. Just like it takes effort to eat well or exercise, takes effort to think well. Once you're aware of the influence it has, by being in a bit of a self-imposed vacuum, you're better educated about what it does, and how to avoid what it does.

Now I have a TIVO and I zip through commercials and watch generally documentaries, trying to avoid the sensational and the over-emotional and the obviously crass. Moderation is the key now. Not media asceticism. But if it overwhelms me, I go back on a strict diet of "I'm not watching or listening for a bit until I regain my sense of humor or equilibrium and can think my own thoughts."

Freedom doesn't mean you do what's easy, or that you are in the company of the like-minded. Freedom means making tougher choices and staying on a diet of "I'm not gonna buy that, I'm not gonna eat that, this is not good for my mental, emotional or physical health."

I appreciate that it's endemic and it's hard to get away from. I'm saying I've consciously built up an immunity by effort, not by nature.

 

[flavortang]

Yes, but I work at home, I don't need to go out much. I have spent years of my life not watching the TV and treating all other forms of ads and media as art or humor. When my daughter was young I hated seeing what commercials and ads did to her, so we shut off the TV completely for a year. It had a profound effect on my thoughts and my willingness to buy into it. I've never watched the TV with the same attitude again. It took effort to do it. Just like it takes effort to eat well or exercise, takes effort to think well. Once you're aware of the influence it has, by being in a bit of a self-imposed vacuum, you're better educated about what it does, and how to avoid what it does.

Now I have a TIVO and I zip through commercials and watch generally documentaries, trying to avoid the sensational and the over-emotional and the obviously crass. Moderation is the key now. Not media asceticism. But if it overwhelms me, I go back on a strict diet of "I'm not watching or listening for a bit until I regain my sense of humor or equilibrium and can think my own thoughts."

Freedom doesn't mean you do what's easy, or that you are in the company of the like-minded. Freedom means making tougher choices and staying on a diet of "I'm not gonna buy that, I'm not gonna eat that, this is not good for my mental, emotional or physical health."

I appreciate that it's endemic and it's hard to get away from. I'm saying I've consciously built up an immunity by effort, not by nature.

I agree. I can't remember the last time I saw an ad and said "I want buy that!" in my caveman voice. I work at home, too.