Lien_Geller's Story Review Thread.

[Seanathon]

Hey Lien,

I'm not brave enough to throw any of my stories onto your sacrificial altar, but I just wanted to say I admire the courage of those writers who do.

While their initial reaction to your often stinging criticism and (in their eyes) brutal feedback might be one of disappointment, I hope they realize they are getting what they asked for: constructive feedback aimed at improving their writing in future efforts.

I know reading your reviews has definitely given me a few pointers (strong opening sentence that hooks the reader by posing a question; avoid unnecessary commas) and I look forward to reading more.

Keep up the good work ~ Seanathon

 

[legerdemer]

Dear LG,

I've read some of your reviews and I'd like your unvarnished, straight-up feedback. I'm a relatively new writer of fiction and I'd like to improve. I've got thick skin. Much appreciated!

story here

 

[Lien_Geller]

Commagain?

Just to make things clear, I have nothing against the comma. Used properly, they can really add to the rhythm of the narrative, and therefore improve the flow of the story. It’s just that in those last two stories I saw things that took comma usage to extremes they shouldn’t be sent to.

In places Beatnic_jazzman was just blatantly not using full stops. Instead I saw multiple instances where he was just using commas to stick one thought onto the end of another completely different one.

AMoveableBeast on the other hand seemed to write in an almost stream-of-consciousness and even conversational sort of style. Dialogue (or monologue) is a place where commas can tend to pop up more than anywhere else due to the writer wanting to convey particular speech patterns and rhythms. AMoveableBeast seems to be trying to use his commas almost as a way to create the illusion of an informal monologue being given from the protagonist to the reader. I think he went a bit too far with it. It makes some of his sentences difficult to read and his story doesn’t flow as well as it could.

Which brings me to the subject of what I mean when I talk about “flow” in a story. I, along with many other people who read for fun, tend to read fast. I actually have trouble reading aloud because my natural instinct is to read faster than I can speak. We read like this because reading words on the page isn’t what storytelling is about. It’s about using the words to create images, feelings and thoughts that vividly allow us to experience what the writer wants us to.

It’s like if you imagine each frame of a movie was a word, and when we watch the movie the words flow together to tell the story. If a frame jumps or stalls or the projector slows down then we’re no longer seeing the story anymore, we’re just watching the individual frames go past.

Making sure sentences flow well helps us to keep up the illusion of the story and keeps us immersed. Sentences with odd structure of excessive comma use can slow things down. Either by simply being too many small breaks between words that they’re intended to be, or by confusing a potentially more efficient sentence structure.

So don’t be afraid of using commas, and it’s totally fine to have four commas in one sentence if they’re needed. I just usually find that when I’m editing my work and I spot a sentence with more than 1 comma I can usually re-write it to make it flow better. It’s just a warning sign that something could be wrong, not a rule you have to stick to.

The flow is what’s important.

May the flow be with you.

 

[Lien_Geller]

legerdermer, I'll check out your story and should put up a review tomorrow!

 

[lovecraft68]

I'll put one out there. This is from last year and received a lot of comments. I am considering a sequel to this, which is something I've never done(except for pieces I planned on having multiple parts) so would like to get some detailed thoughts on this before I get into a follow up

First time category 6 pages

https://www.literotica.com/s/thats-what-friends-are-for-13

 

[Lien_Geller]

Hey lovecraft68! I'm sorry about this but I might not be able to look at your story until Monday. I try to get one review out per day but this weekend I've got a lot going on. If I've not got anything out for you by Tuesday then feel free to PM me a reminder.

 

[lovecraft68]

Hey lovecraft68! I'm sorry about this but I might not be able to look at your story until Monday. I try to get one review out per day but this weekend I've got a lot going on. If I've not got anything out for you by Tuesday then feel free to PM me a reminder.

No worries whenever you can is fine I am in no hurry

 

[Lien_Geller]

Crap!

Ok, so I wanted to get out a review today from legerdemer but I failed. Sorry about that! I'll try to resume normal service by Monday, but I've got a hectic weekend. Apologies to legerdemer and lovecraft68. Don't think I've vanished, I'm just busy.

 

[legerdemer]

Ok, so I wanted to get out a review today from legerdemer but I failed. Sorry about that! I'll try to resume normal service by Monday, but I've got a hectic weekend. Apologies to legerdemer and lovecraft68. Don't think I've vanished, I'm just busy.

Enjoy your weekend; not going anywhere. I'll appreciate your input, whenever it comes.

 

[Katiecat]

Here's a short one -- only 2 pages, just a little bit of fantasy fluff, but it was fun to write. It's one of the first I submitted here; it was written 7 years ago, so reading over it now, I can see things that should be changed. I've been considering a re-write to fix some technical issues and polish it. I'm going to try to submit it to a few different authors for critique, to get some other viewpoints, so I would appreciate your thoughts when you have time. Disclaimer: all characters are over 18, and that is specifically stated in the story, but if I rewrite I will put a note about that at the very beginning.

And I understand you are busy, so there is certainly no rush.

Wild Cat

 

[Lien_Geller]

Kim's Valentine's Day Surprise.

Okie doke, let’s hop on board Kim’s Valentine’s Day Surprise and see if she floats or sinks.

Your opening paragraph isn’t terrible, but it doesn’t plant me into the story as firmly as it should. Sometimes you can start by setting a scene or you can plop straight down into the action. It feels like you’re trying to do both there and neither one of them quite comes off right. You describe the club without really giving it much depth and you describe Kim’s actions without really giving me a reason to invest in her.

As I said, I’m not trying to trash you over this but it’s a problem that does linger. You’ve got a woman here going into a sex club without a guy. If this was a classic detective novel then that might be an interesting situation by itself, but around these parts it’s pretty bland as an idea on its own.

Of course, that’s not to say bland ideas can’t be made flavourful and interesting. It’s just that you need to effectively set the mood of the scene. Show us how nervous she is. Give a bit more life to the guy who checks her out. As a straight dude, I’m wondering what she looks like. Don’t get me wrong, this stuff is about balancing effective descriptive writing with advancing the plot. I’m not saying stop every other paragraph to insert 15 paragraphs describing a house plant, but you need to add more flavour to your writing here. You tell us a lot about what she’s doing but you don’t effectively show it in the narrative.

Example:

She advanced through the door to the room that held the bar, the dance floor, and several large screen TVs playing porn flicks.

This is the sort of thing I’m talking about. Here’s me taking a run at it:

She hesitated for just a moment before reaching out to push open the door and step forward into the bar. The air carried the scent of rich tobacco. She watched the plumes of smoke spiralling between the people in the bright neon lights gleaming across the dance floor. Approaching the bar, she couldn’t help but notice the television screens emblazoned with sordid images of two sweat-soaked lovers writhing against each other for the benefit of the camera.

Ok so what I tried to do there was first establish a moment of “crossing the threshold” to indicate that entering the place was a big deal. I followed that by hitting the reader with a smell that many of us have come across when we walk into a party. “Rich tobacco” also hopefully pushes them more towards the idea of a more upscale place. Then I play off the idea of the smoke to establish movement and light and vibrancy in the room because presumably it’s an exciting place to be! Then, we move with her to the bar and finally push the idea that this is a very naughty place indeed. Instead of “TVs playing porn flicks” the reader gets a hint of what’s to come in the same way that I’m presuming Kim does.

Tah dah! We’ve established mood, set the scene and kept up the illusion of forward movement in the story by having Kim move through the room whilst we take in the sights.

My point being that there’s a difference in saying what’s around and showing what’s around. Always lean towards the latter.

The next thing that struck me was this line:

What a weird thing she'd done, coming to a sex club on her own.

Again, you shouldn’t have to blurt it out like that. You should have already established that she thought it was weird by showing her actions and feelings as she entered the bar. You seem to do this quite a bit. Rather than describing what happens when it happens, you instead focus on what it meant or how it felt afterwards.

Examples:

1: This one's touch was firm, calming, as if he was simply an attentive host.

2: …he pulled her in for a light kiss, a peck chaste enough that she really couldn't call it sexual, couldn't object and retreat.

3: She must have come across as petulant, needy.

In the first one you don’t really need to tell us he’s trying to be an attentive host. Show us his touch was firm, calming and quietly attentive. Instead of telling us that she couldn’t call it sexual or object and retreat, show the touch and its implications directly. Instead of saying that she must have come off as petulant and needy then actively show us displaying those traits or feeling her fears about how he views her. Otherwise it just comes off quite shallow and lacks the necessary impact on the reader.

Ok, then we break and go back in time to the day Kim and her boyfriend started thinking about getting experimental. I think this is the best example of what I’ve been trying to convey to you that I’ve seen so far. You start off with a dialogue between them. It’s just about 5 lines. Then you stop with the dialogue and give us a block of exposition instead explaining everything that had happened up until that point.

WHY!?

Instead of doing that, why not fold that exposition into the dialogue? So far your characters have a bit of a problem in that they lack personality. I think that’s because every time you get the chance to show them exhibiting personality you instead opt to explain their back story. It reads like someone’s giving me running commentary on events rather than letting me feel I’m a part of those events.

You could have shown her boyfriend’s jealousy and emotionally manipulative behaviour in the way he talks to her. You could have had him directly bring up the emails in conversation. Using them to silence her arguments and exploiting her guilt for his own ends.

After the exposition, we get another block of description of how she’d prepared for the evening. The description itself isn’t bad in how you visually display her preparations. There’s a lot of stuff like this on the site, and I don’t really mind it all that much. As a rule of writing, it’s best not to plop a block paragraph of description down in the middle of a narrative. Writing erotica is a bit of a different animal in this sense, because the reader is usually more interested in visualising the people in the story.

What I would say to you here is that there’s definitely room for improvement. First off, there’s more than one sense. Smell, touch, taste… etc. Don’t forget ‘em. Also, good descriptive writing does more than just let the reader know what the person looks like and what they’re wearing. It adds to character, story and enhances mood and setting. Keep these things in mind when you’re writing, especially in erotica because although we get more slack cut than in other genres it’s best to use that slack industriously.

The paragraph I’m talking about here begins with:

She'd dressed for him carefully: she had shaved herself all over…

You could, for example, have started out by contrasting the harshness of the razor blade on her skin with the soothing sensation of the lotion. Add in the scent for a little extra flavour. Done properly, we could see that guilt expressed in the meticulous way she ran the razor over herself. Then we get to see her indulgent side, maybe even a slight foreshadowing metaphor of her losing herself to the pleasure of massaging the lotion into her skin. Express this stuff in the writing and you get a very powerful and immersive scene that shows us more about the character.

Also, be aware of appropriate word usage. You’ve got a slightly formal attempt at a sensual portrait of how your character looks and in the middle of it I get the word “arse”. It’s not wrong, but it’s slightly distracting from the tone.

The sex that follows suffers because I still don’t think you’ve established the characters all that well. Kim just comes across as a bit of a pushover. I don’t mind the sexual submissiveness in her, since that can be suitably kinky. It’s more that I don’t really see anything in her that I like. There’s nothing that I hate either, it’s just that she feels a bit like a blank slate. That’s sometimes an effective thing to use in erotica, since it’s easier for the reader to slip themselves into the protagonist’s drivers seat. It’s just that it doesn’t work unless the reader’s sexuality aligns more closely with the protagonists. Mine doesn’t, and I don’t really feel for Kim all that much so the sex doesn’t have the impact it should.

I will say that the sex itself was fairly steamy, although it too suffered from the issues I outlined in your descriptive writing.

Then the scene finishes and Greg turns into Mr. Hyde. My first thought when I read this part was that it just felt really random. You’d established Greg was a bit of a jerk, but you hadn’t built up any real tension in getting to that point. So the sudden vitriolic response from him just came across as quite confusing. Again, you haven’t given these guys enough personality or shown me enough depth for me to be interested in them. It’s not even very impactful to see him calling her the things he does. It feels like a teenager throwing a tantrum, saying the worst things they can think of and lashing out. If you’d established Greg with more of a juvenile personality then it might have worked, but it just feels so out of the blue that I wasn’t appalled at the behaviour so much as I was thinking “Huh? Where the hell did this come from?”

Ok, I blasted through the rest of the story and nothing else jumped out at me that I haven’t already mentioned in one way or another. It came across to me as a bit of a typical female romantic wish-fulfilment fantasy. Meek woman shrugs off awful boyfriend and finds rich, hunky man of her dreams who she instantly feels comfortable with for some reason.

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that! I’ve written enough handsome yet nerdy guys getting the ridiculously hot and amorous girls in my time to never pass judgment in that regard. It’s just that as a guy who doesn’t want to be swished away by a handsome, caring nightclub owner with a talented dong, there wasn’t much here for me to enjoy. That’s definitely a notch against you, but it’s firmly in the column of my personal taste so who cares?

Also, for what I assume is a first attempt at writing for other people this is actually pretty good. At no point did your writing make me want to pull my hair out and smash my head through something solid. Sure, there’s room for improvement here, but on the whole it’s a fairly impressive first run. Doing the things I’ve talked about here like making characters more meaningful to the reader isn’t as easy as many writers make it look. Overall I’d say your biggest problem is that you often tell rather than show so I’d look into techniques to improve that, but don’t let that criticism put you off.

Keep it up and always be learning.

 

[legerdemer]

Dear LG, your review is exactly what I was hoping for. It doesn't seem like you pulled punches. You gave me lots of milestones to work towards - thank you, it's much appreciated.

I can definitely see the issues you've pointed to.

 

[Lien_Geller]

That's What Friends Are For.

Here’s lovecraft68’s That’s What Friends Are For and what I thunk of it.

Author’s note is generally fine although stuff like this tends to make me roll my eyes:

I believe a good story is like foreplay, a way to build the heat and make the finale all that much stronger so be warned I take my time, but like to think it's worth it in the end.

I know it’s meant in good faith, but these sorts of comments always feel like excuses to me. They’re not massive red flags, but that you feel the need to put that there sort of implies you think the story might be too slowly paced or you’ve had comments saying similar things that you’re trying to head off at the pass. To me, it displays a lack of confidence that you think you need that sort of disclaimer before I even read the first line.

Which is doubly weird to me because from what I can see from your opening dialogue you start out very strong. Nice, decisive opening statement that shows immediate personality and makes the reader want to know why the character carries that opinion. It flows into a snappy dialogue between two friends that reflects a really nice degree of comfort and familiarity between them which makes the small amounts of exposition go down much easier. It also gives us an immediate investment in their relationship, and their similar senses of humour add to their likability.

If I had to make a criticism here it would be that some of the stuff they discuss here is pretty deep for a conversation held over picking up junk. As far as problems go this… well, ok, it isn’t one. It’s just that it might have been better if there was an event or a catalyst of some kind to show why they were discussing relatively deep things in such an un-deep situation. You do a hell of a lot to make up for this by establishing their friendship exceptionally through the dialogue, it just still feels a little bit top-heavy.

Also, after going through the entirety of that first scene, I will say that I feel it goes on a bit longer than it needs to. Here were the main plot points I uprooted from the dialogue:

Sam and Justin are old friends.

Sam thinks Jen is cheating on Justin.

Sam is cute but tomboyish. Jen is sexy and likes to show it.

Sam makes Jen feel insecure.

You pretty much cover those four points in the first half of the first page. I know there was some kinky musings about Sam’s feet and Jen’s enticing phone call. The foot thing didn’t really do much for me, so that might be partially why I feel there’s a little extra drag here. Jen’s sexy promises also didn’t land because judging from what I’ve seen so far it seems very clear that she’s cheating on him which took away a lot of the heat for me. Mostly though it seemed like Sam was just reiterating that Jen was a cheater a little too much. Again, it wasn’t remotely something that made anything in the narrative outright dislikeable, but a little clipping here and there might have made things run a little smoother. I still liked Sam and Justin by the end of it, but I was anxious to move on.

The next scene does well to spend a little time establishing Justin’s family life and giving us a little bit of background without feeling overly-expositiony. Nicely done. The phone call that follows with his friends was a bit boring if I’m honest. I dunno if you were maybe going for perversely sexy with the description of Jen’s slutty antics, but as I said that’s really not my thing. It also came as pretty much no surprise at all after you spending so much time setting up Sam so well in the previous scene.

The phone call with Sam is better because she’s the one I’m invested in the most. I do feel that it makes the mistake of dragging again, especially this time with it being a phone conversation. I dunno, maybe if Sam had said “hold it right there, I’m coming over” and then they could have had it out in person it might have been more flavourful. I think it’s just that you’re going over a lot of things more than once when you don’t need to. It’s a hard balance to crack this sort of thing, because you need to maintain the flow of the dialogue and when I’m writing dialogue I tend to “act out” the characters in my head. This initially leads me to a flow of conversation which I think works and feels more natural, but it also can get a bit overly cumbersome in storytelling terms.

It doesn’t help matters that the plot of Sam being his first is pretty blatantly obvious. It lessens the tension, and in some parts it makes Justin come off as either a colossal dumbass or a bad friend. I can be pretty dense when it comes to telling whether or not girls like me, but this guy is taking it to entirely new levels of what-the-fuckery.

Getting on into ‘ol steamy town, you write up sex very well. I really like that you carry the natural dialogue between the two of them into the sex. It really feels like friends coming together for the first time. Sometimes I read stuff where it’s like the characters have been possessed by the spirit of porn stars. You keep it genuine whilst adding a degree of heat that works really well throughout the scene.

Overall, I really enjoyed this. As I said, you were a bit blunt in setting up the situation where these two people finally got together, but the execution was both sweet and steamy. Throughout the story I liked both the characters and you really successfully infused them with a lot of personality.

I do think that for you to prolong getting to them humping away at each other for as long as you did, you needed more of a convincing conflict. Jen was basically the obstacle they needed to get over and she was so fundamentally awful that it was never a question of if Sam and Justin were going to get together but when. You also really stretched my belief on just how monumentally blind a guy could be to a girl’s interest in them.

I don’t really think you needed the slow build that you talked about in your author’s note. Certainly, not as slow as it was. Parts of the story felt more like padding than anything truly necessary, but honestly it didn’t get too distracting. Just don’t faff about so much!

Also, just as a side note, if I’d have been an entrant in the Earth Day competition I’d have been pretty pissed off that this story placed. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fucking great read, but a token introduction about picking up trash around town isn’t really in the spirit of the contest, is it?

Then again, I’ve tried to think of ideas for Earth Day and come up with sweet bugger all. If you’re going for a broad interpretation of the competition rules, then at least be this good.

I think that’s pretty much it. You got an extra 5* on this one from me. Keep up the good work!

 

[Lien_Geller]

Wild Cat.

Here’s Wild Cat by Katiecat.

Your takeoff is pretty decent. It introduces us to Cat and builds a decent amount of anticipation. I also like that the narrative has a degree of personality that reflects Cat’s situation. You most commonly get that in first person, but it’s nice to see it done in the third person too.

The interaction with the secretary was fine, but it just had a bit of a note of on-the-nose exposition when she mentioned that Cat’s parents had left her at the school. It’s a better way to set it up than giving an info-dump in the narrative, but you could have given more of a reason for her to mention it. It’s a small issue but it’s noticeable so I thought I’d mention it.

You then go on to fill in the background and although it is a bit expositiony, it’s infused with that same personality you started the narrative with. It feels less formal and almost conversational, which helps digest the info-dump. I think that it could have been done better, but it doesn’t sink the story like it can do.

Also, just as a small aside, don’t call an accent “British”. I’m English. England alone has at least 10 different accents. That’s not including Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish. Hearing someone describe an accent as “British” is confusing as all hell to me.

I’d also like to talk about the paragraph that begins with: But then, the old bastard retired.

You’ve been doing pretty well so far in terms of actual writing but in this paragraph I noticed a lot of clunky sentences. There’s a lot of dashes and ellipses where I really don’t think there needs to be. It’s the same issue as with my previous rant about the comma you can see in a previous post. It gives the story a noticeable stop-start feel to it that interrupts story flow. It’s sort of a similar issue to what AMoveableBeast had in his story in that you’re clearly using these little pauses to try and make the narrative more informal. Again, it doesn’t destroy the narrative but it is noticeable.

Shortly after this we’re introduced to the head teacher who comes across as a bit creepy. I always do these reviews as I’m reading the story, but if you were going for a dashing sort of guy I think you missed the mark a bit. He’s in an all girls school flogging the bishop every night thinking about them? Ew. Gross.

The overuse of the dash and ellipsis continues. Sometimes I can clearly see where a full stop might be better suited to the job. Again, I know you’re trying to establish a certain rhythm to the sentence, but these things are best used in moderation. If someone’s trailing off in a… Wait, what was I saying? Oh yeah! They can also be used to effectively build… tension. You seem to want to use them a lot just to show pauses in narrative and dialogue. I’d avoid that where possible because it leads to that stop-start sort of writing that’s not as easy to read.

Aaaand then you go off into the land of Non-Consent and you’ve lost me completely. I’ll post up what I’ve noticed so far, but I’m not going any further. Nothing personal, but it ain’t my cup of tea.

 

[Katiecat]

First of all, duh. So sorry I missed that you don't review BSDM. I picked one of my older stories that has a lot of technical issues that are bugging me (like the punctuation issues you mention), and I feel it would seriously benefit from a rewrite. I wasn't even considering the category when I selected it for your review. My bad.

Thanks for the helpful comments you did provide. I do tend to write conversationally, especially when I'm in a particular character's "voice", but the punctuation absolutely needs to be reined in and overhauled.

I tried to handle the info dump as best as I could; it's challenging to provide enough background in a short-short story. But I'll definitely work on that.

One point: if you see Mr. Rowland as a bit creepy, then good. This is a fantasy story, not realistic at all. Because in real life, a 30-something teacher who gets off on spanking a barely 18 year old student (who obviously has deep psychological problems), has sex with her in his office, and makes it clear he is initiating an ongoing affair with her -- yeah, he would be one hell of a creep =)

Thanks for your feedback -- much appreciated.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well thank you for the great review and spending so much time on it. I'll address a couple of the things you brought up.

The disclaimer. You're probably right that its unneeded, but I started doing it a few years back when people seemed to complain about the length and I "took forever" so I started putting that there. At this point I've been around long enough for people to know my style so could probably ditch it.

Theme....yup, kind of a weak theme. But as you said Earth day isn't easy to have an interesting, yet strong Earth Day theme and truth be told was always the lamest of the contests as evidenced by it being replaced for the time being by April Fools.

I suppose people could complain, but I'm not concerned with it as I myself have seen many very loosely themed stories enter and place in all themed contests to the point where "IT was a hot day" is the extent of some summer lovin entries.

I spent a lot of entries killing myself over theme and Ironically the one time I didn't...first place...which-along with other winners I have seen tells me readers don't seem to care

Now Justin and his "dumb fuckery"-first off...I have used that a half a dozen times in work already

Justin is 18 and I pretty much tried to go for the angle of how goddamn clueless 18 year old guys are. They really know jack shit about emotion and can be hit in the head repeatedly and still not notice anything right in front of them, especially with girls.

Sam was his "buddy" period, and Jen...Jen was hot and that's what teenage boys react to, hot. He was also a bit caught up in his image, basically a sweet kid, but not sure of his identity yet.

You did not call this out, but for me Sam was as bad on the other side exemplifying the stereo type of the girl who is madly crushing on someone but god fucking forbid they say, "Hey, look I'm interested and..." Nope the crushing girl must wait for clueless guy...its an old game and will never change.

Something you did not mention-and I am glad because it shows that people who really look at the story don't question it- is Sam's sexual experience.

That story had several inane comments talking about her turning into a porn star the tom boy becoming sasha grey...

First Sam knoew what she wanted and how to get it, but they didn't break out the fetish gear or swing from a ceiling it was hot basic sex, oral. a couple of positions...

Also I mentioned a few times that not only had Sam been with a couple of guys, but had a dirty sense of humor, was not shy about talking about sex and I went so far as to have Justin recall that she talked about sex with one guy to the point it got on his nerves....Sam had experience and that was foreshadowed.

The only reason it annoyed me was let's face it, these remarks were made by the "pathetic male" faction of lit that end of the day it upset them that Justin was the virgin and heaven forbid the girl take charge and call some shots.

So thank you for not noting that because it does re-enforce to me that it is only an issue for certain low self esteem misogynists.

Thanks again for your time and comments.

 

[robertl]

Hi, I've been dying for a good, honest appraisal of this story, so I'm going to be brave, hold my breath and throw it out there for you to take a look at.

https://www.literotica.com/s/the-night-i-shared-my-wife

 

[Katiecat]

I'll get back in queue, since my first one was in a taboo category and didn't qualify for a full critique.

Let's try A Gift For Her Teacher. Another student/teacher story, but very different premise; this one is a First Time but could easily have been posted in Romance.

The story got some very positive comments, but the overall score is not spectacular, at 4.46. I like the characters a lot; I broke through a bad bout of writer's block with a sequel for these two, and have some other ideas for them, but would like to see if there are ways to improve or tighten up the original.

Thanks in advance for your time.

 

[Lien_Geller]

The Night I Shared My Wife.

Ok, so I’m back after that brief interlude in which I spent a couple of days exploring the new Literotica chat and found out to my horror that Lien can easily be mistaken for a girl’s name.

Back to business as usual, let’s take a look at The Night I Shared My Wife by robertl.

Full disclosure: Although I don’t particularly mind looking at stories from the category, Loving Wives isn’t really my general cup of tea. So you might have a lot of really good ideas that appeal to your subgenre here, but I might miss them cuz it’s not my thing. If I’m overly critical, don’t get disheartened.

You start off there with a little introduction saying this is based on a true story. I don’t really care. I’d say if you want to opt for a kind of autobiographical tone then just start the story off that way. I don’t think it adds too much to say these things really happened. It’s not like a ghost story where something like that adds a more sinister and personal element to the story that follows. I don’t know if this actually is a true story, but for reviewing purposes here I’ll take your word for it.

Your first paragraph comes off as quite dull. It’s a generic history of you and your wife that probably means a whole lot to you, but you don’t convey any of what’s special about you two in the writing. If you ever become a world leader, this is probably the kind of thing they’ll write in high-school level history textbooks about you in order to bore the hell out of students. If you’re writing erotica, then that’s definitely not the tone you should be going for.

Also, going into the second paragraph you continue on to say that your wife is “pretty”. That’s fine for you, but for me she’s still just a blank face. I could classify about 75% of the women I see on the street as “pretty”. You do eventually clarify that she’s “hot” which narrows it down to a nice 25% of the women I see on a day-to-day basis. In case you’re wondering, yes, that is way to fucking vague.

Let’s talk for a moment about this line:

She was smart, funny, a LOT of fun to be with, and we both enjoyed the same things, especially the outdoors and she was very, very pretty.

That’s in your third paragraph. After you’ve already told me she’s pretty twice. Now she’s very, very pretty. Thank you so much for getting specific.

Ok, caustic sarcasm aside, let’s talk about why we don’t write stuff like that. First off, don’t capitalise random words in a sentence like that. Yes, I know I do it here on the review thread but that’s because I’m writing random forum posts. Plus, everyone writing on internet forums can get away with writing like a nutter. Writing a story requires a slightly more rigid set of rules due to the need to maintain a reader’s immersion in the story. Those rules can be broken, but should only be broken after a degree of thought and need on the part of the author. I don’t see the thought or the need to make the word “lot” here capitalised. If you need to enhance words like that then italicise them.


Now if you’ll excuse me whilst I remove the nitpicky-stick out of my ass… Ah, that’s better. The main reason we don’t write sentences like that one is because you don’t just blurt out that a character is smart, funny and fun to be around. You establish their intelligence by showing that they know stuff, you get them to make the reader laugh and you make them likable. Saying that she’s smart, funny and fun to be around does absolutely fuck-all to establish any sense of character in her, and that’s what you should be doing here. Again, I know dozens of smart, funny and fun people in my life that are radically different people. So saying stuff like that does very little for me in getting to know her.

Let’s stop here a moment and let me tell you about a writing thought exercise. I want you to imagine that there is a person (let’s call him Dave) who is about to sit down for 10 minutes 1-on-1 with 100 different people. During this time they can’t mention anything about their past or what they do for a living. You get to pick 1 person out of the 100 he’s going to meet and you can talk with them for as long as you like. Then, you have to write a note to Dave explaining who the person is that you want him to choose. If, at the end, he selects the person you wanted him to then you both win a squajillion gold bars.

What sort of things do you write in the note?

You also tend to repeat very general things over and over again. For example, at one point you’re oddly intent on keeping the reader up to date with your wife’s monthly cycle and how that relates to your sex life. That’s just plain weird to me. It also seems like you mention how sexy she is in every other line. If you were adding depth or variation each time then it might build up tension, but you literally just plop down variations of “she was sexy.” I’m sorry but that does absolutely nothing for me.

Think about it for a minute. How many erotic stories have you read on here that go:

He was sexy. She was sexy. They humped.

Now think about why that doesn’t work. (Hint: It’s not just that it’s short.) Now look at your story.

You do fare slightly better in your description of your wife’s attire, but again she might as well have been a mannequin for all the depth it has.

Once you stop giving us a history lesson and tell us for the 1375674th time how sexy your wife is, the story does heat up quite well. The characters are still empty shells, but at least when things start getting steamy they’re empty shells with a more active voice and some kinky interactions.

Your actual description of the sexual manoeuvres and such isn’t bad at all. You do go into a little more detail in the moment, but so often everything just comes back to “you’re beautiful” or “you’re sexy” and I never get anything really personal. A lot of the idea of a voyeuristic husband watching someone else have his wife doesn’t do much for me so I can’t comment on it.

When new writers start out on adventures in learning creative writing they tend to get the words less is more shouted at them a lot. There’s always exceptions to almost every rule in writing, but there’s so little here in terms of characterisation that I’m tempted to advise you in the opposite direction. Spend a bit more time and thought in character description. Not just outwardly what they’re wearing, but showing off their personality, their quirks, their sense of humour. Don’t tell me about it. Show me it! Also, ease up on the exposition. I didn’t need to know about you or your wife’s complete history before the story started here. It made for an exceptionally dull introduction because it was too vague and didn’t make me care about either of the characters.

So, them were my thoughts and I hope they were helpful in your future pieces. Sorry I didn’t have much positive to say here, but I think I might have enjoyed it more if I had a greater appreciation of the subgenre. Your sexual writing isn’t bad, just pay attention to the other stuff because it’s pretty important!

 

[LateNightStories]

https://www.literotica.com/s/castles-made-of-sand-ch-01

This is the first chapter of a fantasy series I'm writing. The next chapter, which I submitted yesterday, will contain some relunctance/bdsm scenes, but not this first chapter.

The tones can change a bit between gritty realism and camp fantasy. My aim is to make the reader form an ambivalent relationships to most of the characters. The protagonist may therefore come off as quite unlikeable in this first instalment.

P.S. Damn, I just realised you're the author of the Missing Dragon series. Please, keep in mind that I'm a very junior writer.

 

[Areala-chan]

My aim is to make the reader form an ambivalent relationships to most of the characters. The protagonist may therefore come off as quite unlikeable in this first instalment.

As both a reader and a writer, this is one of the worst tactics for writing a story you could possibly employ. Never, ever strive for ambivalence when it comes to anyone except those secondary or tertiary characters who will be there for a scene and then depart having said their lines. To do otherwise is to tell your intended audience, "I don't give enough of a shit about my characters to even try to make you give a shit about them."

If your reader doesn't care about your characters, you have lost them. Period. They don't have to love them, hell sometimes it's even better if they hate them, but if they feel no emotion at all, then it's over and you've wasted both their time and yours. Do not do this. Do not aim for this. Do not consider this a valid tactic no matter what your overall goal for the story is, unless that goal is to piss off your readers, collect 1-star ratings, and serve as an example for what not to do when writing.

 

[CyranoJ]

I think maybe what LateNightStories has in mind -- having read the story now -- is that he's attempting to make his characters flawed, which actually is quite different from making them unlikeable or uncompelling. His protagonist comes off as reasonably likeable, really, just roguish.

 

[LateNightStories]

As both a reader and a writer, this is one of the worst tactics for writing a story you could possibly employ. Never, ever strive for ambivalence when it comes to anyone except those secondary or tertiary characters who will be there for a scene and then depart having said their lines. To do otherwise is to tell your intended audience, "I don't give enough of a shit about my characters to even try to make you give a shit about them."

If your reader doesn't care about your characters, you have lost them. Period. They don't have to love them, hell sometimes it's even better if they hate them, but if they feel no emotion at all, then it's over and you've wasted both their time and yours. Do not do this. Do not aim for this. Do not consider this a valid tactic no matter what your overall goal for the story is, unless that goal is to piss off your readers, collect 1-star ratings, and serve as an example for what not to do when writing.

I think you misunderstood me. Ambivalence as in having mixed emotions. I try to make the readers unsure of who they should root for. Hopefully, that doesn't make them less invested.

I think maybe what LateNightStories has in mind -- having read the story now -- is that he's attempting to make his characters flawed, which actually is quite different from making them unlikeable or uncompelling. His protagonist comes off as reasonably likeable, really, just roguish.

Thank you! It's just that many people have commented on the unlikeability of the lead, though nobody has called him uncompelling. My editor said reader's might find it difficult to relate to a roguish character, though I think he changed his mind after reading the second chapter.

 

[Bramblethorn]

As both a reader and a writer, this is one of the worst tactics for writing a story you could possibly employ. Never, ever strive for ambivalence when it comes to anyone except those secondary or tertiary characters who will be there for a scene and then depart having said their lines. To do otherwise is to tell your intended audience, "I don't give enough of a shit about my characters to even try to make you give a shit about them."

I think you're confusing "ambivalence" with "indifference". Very different beasts. Ambivalence can be tremendously effective in characterisation - see e.g. Gollum, Severus Snape, Mr. Darcy.

 

[LateNightStories]

I think you're confusing "ambivalence" with "indifference". Very different beasts. Ambivalence can be tremendously effective in characterisation - see e.g. Gollum, Severus Snape, Mr. Darcy.

You got my meaning.

Mr. Rochester, Heathcliffe, Lord Henry Wotton and that guy from Camus' L’Étranger. People you don't quite know how to feel about, but you definitely feel something for them.